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I haven't fact-checked all of this this TJ but it matches with regards to his voting:
https://www.markpack.org.uk/153744/jeremy-corbyn-brexit/
It's pretty clear he wants Brexit and a soft Brexit with cake was never possible. Any Brexit will be hard because EU leaders won't agree to a soft one from which the UK can gain unfair advantage.
So once again not a single quote and nothing recent bar a completely false account of what he did in the referendum campaign
He spoke repeatedly in favour of remain to thousands and thousands of people at public rallies. He refused to share a platform with tories in the remain campaign. He did not refuse to campaign for remain - he refused to share a platform with tores and quite rightly given the kicking scottish laboutr got for doing so in the scottish referendum
He has straong reservations about the EU - some with IMO sense,some without. However he voted remain adn he campaigned for remain and spoke to more people at more public meetings than any other politician
He even went on public record about how he changed his views to allow him to campaign for remain.
I've just been on the official @leave.eu twitter feed. What a depressing place, full of lies...
https://twitter.com/LeaveEUOfficial
When two thirds of labour constituencies voted leave you can see why Labour can’t come out as remain regardless of the leanings of the party leader.
Ok, now go and find out what percentage of Labour voters voted leave. Then come back and try to convince me this is in any way democratic.
Ok, now go and find out what percentage of Labour voters voted leave. Then come back and try to convince me this is in any way democratic.
Who cares. Democracy is ***. Democracy, or more specifically remaining in power in a democracy is now about appealing to the lowest common denominator *tards.
If anyone was unclear on Scotland's place in the Brexit debate, the Tory MP Sir Nicholas Soames has just told the SNP leader Ian Blackford to "go back to Skye" during the debate in the Commons.
The same Nicholas Soames that barked at a female SNP MP. Why do we have to put up with these bigots?
The same Nicholas Soames that barked at a female SNP MP.
The very same
Why do we have to put up with these bigots?
Democracy innit?
The same Nicholas Soames that barked at a female SNP MP. Why do we have to put up with these bigots?
Yep - he of 'wardrobe with the key still in the lock' fame............
"It's not my GDP".
When two thirds of labour constituencies voted leave you can see why Labour can’t come out as remain regardless of the leanings of the party leader.
In those seats, the UKIP+Tory vote share is often greater than the Labour vote share. Labour is in danger of acting for those people in their seats who don't vote Labour, and screwing over those that do. Now, they might be thinking that those Labour voters will vote Labour again if Brexit screws them… the "no where else to go" strategy. Still stinks.
It's all just about trying to justify one thing… the Leader and a few around him want Brexit, and will not allow it to be stopped. The party as a whole, and those who vote(d) for it overwhelmingly do not want this to happen, but what are they going to do about it? It's convinced me that if he was PM, he wouldn't act in the interests of his grass roots supporters or those that Labour should be standing up for. I voted Labour at the last election. I'll wait for a change in Leader before I do so again. Unless magic happens.
A surgeon friend of mine has a theory that the bulk of the general population are gradually getting thicker.
The theory goes that for years the more educated people tend to have fewer or no kids whereas it’s the Jeremy Kyle types who have loads. A few generations of this and the average intelligence of the population drops.
Nope that wouldn't stop him get elected would it. Its a product of the state where the art of political response has become yeah but your mother.
Perhaps it's a time for some more censure for mp's. As bad as the adveserial game of Aussie politics got they would still chuck you out for the day for breaking rules. It takes a moment to make change happen but I don't think that is coming any time soon.
has a theory
I've met enough stupid rich highly educated folk to know that theory has more than a few flaws (and is product of very simple snobbery).
There is no data to suggest the population is on a path to stupid.
Anyway, Political decisions aren't just about intelligence, are they?
It's a bit like religion…
[ close the thread there ]
Like I said, his theory not mine.
You could argue though I suppose that if the family background isn’t particularly nurturing or focused towards educational success then the results would be self perpetuating.
@colp education and intelligence is inherited? See a few flaws there.
Think he means the Jeremy Kyle families dont bring thier kids up well, and have more of them.
See also
Prince Charles versus Noel Gallagher.
[ thread not closed yet ? ]
Worried about the less educated not dong what's right by their children? Then don't defund and demoralise the schools and colleges they attend.
[ get this back on topic ]
A surgeon friend of mine has a theory that the bulk of the general population are gradually getting thicker.
The theory goes that for years the more educated people tend to have fewer or no kids whereas it’s the Jeremy Kyle types who have loads. A few generations of this and the average intelligence of the population drops.
Is he proposing EU-genics?
Is he proposing EU-genics?
Very good indeed:)
A surgeon friend of mine has a theory that the bulk of the general population are gradually getting thicker.
The theory goes that for years the more educated people tend to have fewer or no kids whereas it’s the Jeremy Kyle types who have loads. A few generations of this and the average intelligence of the population drops.
read "the marching morons" by Cyril M. Kornbluth,
However there is no real evidence for this happening from my understanding. Intelligence is generally a regression to the mean in that children are more likely to be closer to average intelligence than their parent with occasional outliers and also IQ test scores UK average is rising ( from memory)
Think he means the Jeremy Kyle families dont bring thier kids up well, and have more of them.
Lets look at parliament for some examples of well adjusted rich kids
Governement petition to leave with no deal reaches 220000 with 1500 hits an hour
Surely its a bot
Dianne A bot ?
Ah, Tim Martin. Shouty man in pub. If it looks like gammon...
it’s starting to get a bit squeaky bum time.
Which reminds me of David Davies on QT the other night. He basically suggested that the EU always do their negotiating at the last possible minute, so there's no need to worry. Presumably that's why he did **** all for 2 years. "They need us more than we need them", la la la.
A failure of democracy?
Destroying people's trust in democracy?
Charges laid at all options other than no deal, by the louder no deal proponents
If we leave, with no deal, against the wishes of most of the public, most voters, most MPs… how does our democracy start to look?
No deal is better than a bad deal.
I have no sympathy for May now trying to get her bad deal through parliament, armed with nothing more than the threat that no deal would be worse.
A surgeon friend of mine has a theory that the bulk of the general population are gradually getting thicker.
The theory goes that for years the more educated people tend to have fewer or no kids whereas it’s the Jeremy Kyle types who have loads. A few generations of this and the average intelligence of the population drops.
Well, the states have already got the president from Idiocracy why not the rest of the plot...
Are we sure Tim Martin and Jacob Cream Cracker are even real people?
I’ve met enough stupid rich highly educated folk to know that theory has more than a few flaws (and is product of very simple snobbery).
Intelligence is complex, but mostly inherited. If the less intelligent are having more children than the more intelligent, the average intelligence of the population will fall. Denying this for ideological reasons is silly. Inheritance also behaves statistically, so a few outliers are not significant. In any case, your example doesn't contradict this, unless you are equating wealth with intelligence. Just because you are rich it doesn't mean your parents aren't stupid.
Governement petition to leave with no deal reaches 220000 with 1500 hits an hour
I'm sure a "revoke A50 & sort out a better deal with no time pressure" petition would get similar.
There is no data to suggest the population is on a path to stupid.
Hmm. This whole Brexit shitstorm suggests otherwise! 🙂
Jesus, it's not about "stupid".
Bored of people making this claim.
[ edit - sorry, missed your smiley ]
I’m sure a “revoke A50 & sort out a better deal with no time pressure” petition would get similar.
A lot of work went on in the media last week to shut this option down. It should make sense to Leavers and Remainers alike.
I’m sure a “revoke A50 & sort out a better deal with no time pressure” petition would get similar.
Get one on the boil, cant anyone just start?
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions?state=open
Go for it, the government will allow 3 micro seconds of debate to denounce you as a traitor before your name and address is passed on to the Gammon Shirts.
There are a few leave ones up there, the theme seems to be get us out as quick as possible before somebody wakes up and stops this mess. Spot a theme?
https://twitter.com/nickboles/status/1075069709840801793?s=21
People, and businesses need to know what the hell is going on. Preparing for no deal exit next year is too late for so many.
The EU have finished with the Withdrawl Agreement. That process is over (it has to be to get it approved by all involved in time for the exit date), so threatening no deal is not a negotiating tool… rule it out, or ask for permission to carry out this madness. Time for some democracy.
Isn't no-deal illegal anyway due to the GFA?
Which reminds me of David Davies on QT the other night
Correction David Davis. Davis Davies is some other patronising ****.
Its incompatible with it but I don't think there are actually any legal sanctions or court to enforce the GFA. A hard border tho means the UK has broken its commitments in an international binding treaty
Isn’t no-deal illegal anyway due to the GFA?
I suspect that would play out a bit like Trump's wall.
EU "there has to be a border"
UK "Well you're paying for it".
A lot of work went on in the media last week to shut this option down. It should make sense to Leavers and Remainers alike.
There is no option, ruling was good faith to revoke A50, not to reset the clock.
Options are crash and burn, mays deal, or revoke for the forseeable.
Hmm. This whole Brexit shitstorm suggests otherwise!
I think the question of people "being less intelligent" has its answers more in ignorance and lack of education than anything.
I find an awful lot of people simply don't engage with the world outside their particular bubble, if they did for instance engage for just a few minutes each day, in lets say politics, economics, culture, science, they could be better informed, and you don't have to be a member of the guardian reading intelligentsia to do that.
The education system outside of the paid for types, is absolutely appalling. Add to that the media and social media, and you get what is akin to what used to be called sound bite politics that people are taking information from.
I find an awful lot of people simply don’t engage with the world outside their particular bubble,
Yep, was talking to somebody who's line is basically, whatever happens not much will change, who'd heard of that backstop thing until it was on the news?
He was shocked when I said many had, and that the NI issues were up there 2 1/2 years ago.
People have to want to engage. Intelligence has nothing to do with it, like the Muppet surgeon up above
I don't think it's intelligence per se.
It's more about selfishness and people wanting (or not) to learn, some don't and are quite happy being entrenched in thier own little bubble.
You only have to eavesdrop on passing conversations to realise how self absorbed a lot of people are.
so what happened to Corbyn vote of no confidence ?
let me guess , nothing or nothing at all .
so what happened to Corbyn vote of no confidence ?
let me guess , nothing or nothing at all .
Didn't see anything, did the government allow the motion to be debated? See that is where the problem is
https://twitter.com/Aiannucci/status/1074793973049364480
Seriously next up we need the vote on the Bill, that is the next trigger point.
Nothing.. He basically made himself look stupid.
Although I don't really think it will have any impact when it comes to the 'meaningful vote'.
It will tank and then it's proper VONC time. Or GE or extend A50.
Nothing.. He basically made himself look stupid.
Really, the one who came out worst was JRM and his cronies, with May must resign chants last week to we had a little chat and she is doing everything she can today.
There was zero chance of winning a no confidence in the government. Until May puts her bill forward the ERG and DUP need to support her, once she fails at that then it's time do something else.
which is in a month time !
and it will be too late to do anything , MPs will vote for May deal and it is done and dusted .....
which is in a month time !
and it will be too late to do anything , MPs will vote for May deal and it is done and dusted
Care to explain what he could have done? I mean seriously what would have worked?
I agree Mike, I suppose his posturing does signal what the wider house will go for.
But it was ultimately posturing.
I think we are both on the same page generally.
It's just very incredibly frustrating that such a crucial issue will not be decided by proper thought and planning, but left to the chance of UK MPs whims at the 11th hour.
It's irresponsible and a complete dereliction of duty to the highest degree.
I can't think of a stronger way of putting it without resorting to profanity.
It was gameplaying, but actually pretty shrewd- he couldn't lose and he's been handed an effortless victory and yet another Theresa May humiliation, and gone from a vote of no confidence which he's no certainty of winning, to another vote that Theresa May's run and hidden from.
It's not achieving much in the grand scheme and it's not the decisive move I'd like to see, but the thing is, the decisive mood will be pretty decisive and there's still no guarantee it'll be the right decisive. Hands up everyone that's demanding he move now that'll hesitate to rip his arse out if it doesn't work? Nobody? Exactly.
I’ve just had a dip into the labour party’s Facebook stuff.
It’s not pretty
About 90% of the people on there are people saying how disgusted they are with the party under Corbyn the Brexiteer and how they’ll never vote labour again as they’re ebabling a Tory Brexit
If you make this comment then be ready for s tirade of abuse from his ultras who’s blinkers won’t allow them see past Jezza. They’re just the same grizzled militant *s from the 80’s, and that’s clearly the only people he’s listening to
The Tory party is in the grip of right wing free market fundamentals. The Labour Party in the grip of Marxist relics who have regarded the EU as a capitalist conspiracy. In both cases they hold thee opinions because they’re all utter *-wits
That both want the same thing though
We’re ****ed. The tail of both parties is wagging the dog. All sensible options are shouted down by the morons
The extremes of left and right are inadvertently conspiring to deliver us into a dystopian hell!
cchris2lou
so what happened to Corbyn vote of no confidence ?
Don't worry Ian Blackford of SNP, Vince Cable and Caroline Lucas have put one in about an hour ago.
"Together with @vincecable @LSRPlaid and @CarolineLucas I have put down a motion of no confidence in the UK Government. I am demanding that the Govt give time for this debate. This shambolic Govt must be held to account and we must advance a peoples vote."
Bet it doesn't get a hearing though.
But for the SNP another brick in the wall...
Can they put a vote of no confidence against the government and the opposition at the same time?
About 90% of the people on there are people saying how disgusted they are with the party under Corbyn the Brexiteer and how they’ll never vote labour again as they’re ebabling a Tory Brexit
So remove the Brexit bit, who would they vote for instead who would deliver anything close to what Labour want? Labour policies are the closest to proper Labour they have been for a long time which is why a lot of Labour supporters are so happy with Corbyn being there (Marxist, FFS).
I think Corbyn is playing the game on Brexit okay (a game he couldn't win) and if he came out as a super remainer it would make no difference to how it has gone over the last 2 years and you would have then just seen a load of people saying they won't vote Labour again because he is a remainer.
I think if he'd made the argument for remaining over the last couple of years we wouldn't be in anywhere as much trouble as it seems we might be right now.
. In both cases they hold thee opinions because they’re all utter ****-wits
The likes of Grace Blakeley would won rings around your criticism here which is basically as much as an insult as anything useful.
The Tory party has always been in the grip of the free-marketeers, you're just waking up to this?
The extremes of left and right are inadvertently conspiring to deliver us into a dystopian hell!
This is just ridiculous.
I think if he’d made the argument for remaining over the last couple of years we wouldn’t be in anywhere as much trouble as it seems we might be right now.
And I think it would have made no difference. We will never know.
I think if he’d made the argument for remaining over the last couple of years we wouldn’t be in anywhere as much trouble as it seems we might be right now.
apart from he did - he campaigned for remain, voted for remain, publicly said why his views had changed, spoke to more people at more meetings than anyone else. what more do you want.?
No TJ, by "the last couple of years" I mean the last couple of years. Post ref. Since then we've basically had a conspiracy of silence between the politicians, media and pundits all pretending that brexit is going to happen with all the associated sunlit uplands. Finally done are starting to wake up but it's a bit late and plenty of damage has been done.
The Corbyn delusion is strong.
His policies got me voting Labour.
On Brexit he has failed the country.
To just ignore that and keep supporting him makes you a Brexit supporter.
Anyway, where is Kier?
The Tory party has always been in the grip of the free-marketeers
Can’t be a very tight grip, then.
Their entire history has been one of State Corporatism.
Post ref? NO move he could make really without either splitting his party and / or having the press hound him relentlessly. Remember a large part of his party want to " honour the peoples decision"
I have asked onthis thread "what would you have him do?" on several occasions. I have had one half hearted answer ad loads of banal generalities
so the captain - what would you have him do - specifically please.
Like I said I'd have had him tell the truth about brexit being bad for the country and bad for the working class he's supposed to be championing, rather than colluding in the myth of a brexit that could be good for Britain. Red unicorns aren't any more credible than blue ones and the reckoning is going to be bloody
TJ, you seem to give Corbyn a free pass on the basis that speaking the truth would be difficult and electorally disadvantageous. Do you give May a free pass on the same basis or not?
I hope Savage Cabbage takes a moment to think about his parents when he “takes back control of our borders” later on.
Hypocritical ****.
The captain - I do not give him a free pass at all. I do however understand the political situation. If he had done as you suggested he would become the main target for the right wing press and also he would split the party due to all those craven blairites who are running scared of the racists in their constituencies. that would make the chances of a labour government recede.
@What he is proposing is a compromise very different to mays ie an EFTA type deal. I agree its unworkable but yo can only work with what yo have got - and on this ALL the political choices he has are bad. He has done a good job of skewering May
Tj, Corbyn could have gone 2 ways
1, agree with Brexit and propose a deal not made of unicorns and fairies. His current one is not compatible with the EU stance.
2, fight for for remain, at the risk of splitting the party.
But in each case, he should have put up a fight for his choice or party choice.
Instead he has done nothing. Giving free reign to the Tories. The Tories are self imploding and he is not interested.
Sitting on the fence was probably the best thing to do 18 months ago but now the sht is hitting the fan at full speed, he needs to deliver.
Tony Blair is on TV once a month and he gets TM to go nuts.
His policies got me voting Labour.
On Brexit he has failed the country.
To just ignore that and keep supporting him makes you a Brexit supporter.
Rubbish. I don't think he has failed the country on Brexit at all, he is playing the game which is all he can do seeing that he is not actually in power. You will see the outcome of it on March 29th.
Apparently I should be now hoping for Brexit as I am now a Brexit supporter (good to know thanks)
Tick. Tock. (you missed it again, you are sipping)
Tony Blair is on TV once a month and he gets TM to go nuts.
He gets a lot of people to go nuts, mainly because he is a ****ing self serving idiot.
He's the only major public figure strongly calling for another referendum, so **** or not he's playing this one right.
TJ, your posts certainly come across as an apologist for Corbyns inaction and apparent lack of opposition of the tory inspired Brexit due to the right wing media criticism. However, Jeremy has no problem to rightfully criticise Israel over the treatment of Palestinians, regardless of the right wing press attacks on him.
There's an awful lot of whataboutery here about Corbyn. The only thing we need to know which informs his view is that politicians who want to be PM can’t ignore the results of elections. It’s ridiculous to expect him to do that. He’s on record many times as saying he wants the softest of soft brexits. That may be unrealistic but at least he’s declared his position, unlike many others. Funny really cos I don’t know of any other hard Brexiteers wanting stay in the customs union and single market.
Are we aware what specifically Corbyn objects to about May's deal? Given no Uk prime minister could have got the unicorns and fairies, cake and eat it deal what specifically has May given way on that he would not have that he would have had a chance of the EU agreeing too?
Separate question - does a no deal mean the the Good Friday Deal for Northern Ireland is scrapped? I.e. if the boarder bit goes does everything go?
I just did a quick check as I thought i rememebred the JC fan from previous posts piha https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/labour-party-problems/page/16/
Your certainly in the top 3 or 4 JC fans there 😉
Honestly there were more votes in parliament he could have enthusiastically lost, he could have taken his party down the fracture and split route the tories are in now. He could have..... and the result would be the same. May is treating parliament with contempt but her back benchers won't risk losing power as they see it is a grand demotion to be a nobody on the other benches rather than a nobody on the government ones.
Despite the arguments above, no-one really knows what Corbyn thinks. Theres no real evidence on either side to show his genuine views on the most important political changes and challenges of this century.
Thats why hes a skin tag on the arse of politics, and a brake on any real opposition to the government.
Despite the arguments above, no-one really knows what
CorbynMay thinks.
Just another perspective, If you think any of this is being defined by the personal beliefs of May or Corbyn your giving them too much credit.
Both May and Corbyn have unequivocally said that an end to FoM is a red line. Everything else flows from that. Everyone is getting thrown under that bus.
People waiting for Corbyn's long game on Brexit had better be proven right (they won't be).
The "game", if there is one, stinks.
The only thing we need to know which informs his view is that politicians who want to be PM can’t ignore the results of elections.
So, should he adopt Tory policies because of the last general election result? If you want to be PM, you need to show leadership.
Funny really cos I don’t know of any other hard Brexiteers wanting stay in the customs union and single market.
Is this a Corbyn reference? He whipped Labour MPs against staying in the customs union. He whipped Labour MPs against staying in the single market.
People waiting for Corbyn’s long game on Brexit had better be proven right (they won’t be).
The long game is the only game he can realistically play. You would have played a different game which could have been more or less successful, who knows. Easy on the sidelines though isn't it.
Tick. Tock. (come on, you really are letting yourself down now)