-- redacted, not worth it.
teamhurtmore - Member
get over it
get on with it
get your coat and go for lunchBon Appetit
Interesting. Was that aimed at leavers who didn't support the first result or remainers who didn't support the second?
And get over what exactly?
The result neither needs getting over or not getting over. It's history. We're a democracy therefore the fight to protect our children's rights against the wrecking Brexies goes on.
It is the only morally acceptable thing to do.
it has to be a void result anyhow
these foreigners were allowed to vote
in other news
it turns out high ranking civil servants are bent, taking backhanders and living the high life.....ooooh wiff of jealousy, who wouldnt if they could
Talk of another referendum is all well and good, as is the idea that Parliament should have a vote on the final deal but unless Article 50 is revocable (or can be made so) it's all academic.
It is politically whether or not legally - which is why Davies et al are doing their best to alienate the Europeans to remove the political option.
get over it
get on with it
get your coat and go for lunchBon Appetit
Lets all jump to our deaths for Britain!
A way would be found.
Yes that's why Davis is trying to burn the boats.
My expectation is a dramatic toys-out-of-pram walkout, and termination of talks, once the bill is put on the table. That's why the UK's not bothering to do anything now and just letting the clock tick.
There'll also be no selective opt-in continuation of rights for UK citizens, which I suspect the EU would be in favour of, because the UK government won't ask for it.
Tough shit kids, grandma knows best.
Tough shit kids, grandma knows best.
Tough shit kids, Grandma's coming home, along with another million ailing pensioners we'll be swapping for a big chunk of our workforce. Including the key NHS and Social Care workers that would have come in so handy.
No need to jump anywhere - apart from into the dark!
Much better to get beyond the denial and grief phases, accept what is in front of us, and focus on what you can control and do positively
And much, much better than wallowing in self-pity, recriminations (those nasty Brexshiteers lied to us, it's not fair) and wild exaggerations. That just make a bad situation worse.
Its not whether something is bad or good that is important, it's about the character we show in responding
unless Article 50 is revocable (or can be made so) it's all academic
As noted the EU can do fudges easily so if they want us to stay then it is
IGM is wise that the pro brexit nutters may well just be trying to be complete arseholes to make sure this is not an option though I personally go for hopelessly inept dullards guided by a hubris only surpassed by their lack of skill in diplomatic areas
Much better to get beyond the denial and grief phases, accept what is in front of us, and focus on what you can control and do positively
Agreed THM. There's no denial here, a little sadness perhaps for what the Brexies have done to my children, but not grief.
Now in terms of control I am doing what I can (a little here, a little there, nudging the odd company's managers, whispering to the odd civil servant, ranting and raving on here for the humour of it - this forum ain't going to change anything directly, but...) and it is absolutely positive to try and dismantle Brexit. The means are sometimes murkier but the end justifies them.
One thing that the pre-vote forecasts showed us was that the real hit was actually surprisingly small and subject to very large sensitivity to different assumptions. The damage to our children is far greater from other sources.
Whatever happens over the next 2 (10?) years we are still going to be trading with our European friends, we will still be interdependent with all parts of the world - that is what we do - we will still have our skills and resources and we will still be successful. The degree to which we are the latter depends on how sensibly we react to what is in front of us and how quickly we move on.
It's is very difficult to do what no one else has ever done - hence our expectations re timing etc should be realistic not silly pipe dreams (that goes for remoaners and Brexshiteers). We will get through it. Why? because that is what is in EVERYONEs interests.
I don't need to "get through it" everything was perfectly good before.
How many anti eu demonstrations were there before the referendum? None.
No one really gave a ****. The eu was on par with moaning about the repeats on telly.
A large part of my business is selling Belgian chocolates.
The cost has already rocketed. Once the tariffs go on we won't be able to sell them anymore.
Of course it will all be the fault of those nasty euros.
We try and swallow as much of the price increases as we can.
Your stupid pathetic flag waving is costing me money and maybe even my staff their jobs.
Well done you ignorant ****s.
What %age of the Belgium export market for chocolate is to the UK?
I don't know and it doesn't matter.
What matters is me being able to trade and my staff getting their wages.
Thanks for telling us we are in grief and denial over the result its good to know there is no issue you cannot patronise us on so somethings have not changed.Much better to get beyond the denial and grief phases, accept what is in front of us, and focus on what you can control and do positively
What we can do is oppose it and try and reverse it which is as positive as we can be with this cluster **** of an idea and this omnishambles of a "plan"/implementation.
I can accept your view of just getting on with it but I am not sure why you cannot accept that some folk still wish to oppose it [and they are not all in denial or grief].
Both seem perfectly fine positions for a person to have - only an instance it will be of [economic short term]benefit to us to leave deserves such levels of derision.
Well it does matter. If the UK market is an important export market for Belgium then there is a greater likelihood that the margins squeeze could be greater for the exporter than the importer. What happens if you stop importing B chocs tomorrow. What would your suppliers do?
Tell you what THM I'm going to **** those nasty ****ing euros right over by going bust now.
That'll really show them.
All over this country people like me are facing similar problems
Of course we will face going to the wall with our heads held high.
Maybe in 10 years our glorious leaders will have sorted a free trade on chocolate but by then it will be too late.
That's not answering the question - it's a serious one. What pricing power do you have?
None.
The price in the book is the price we pay.
Shall we phone up hmrc and try and get our tax bill down?
No, that would not work.
Well if you have no pricing power, then your business is [s]fu@@ed[/s] in a very difficult position. If it really is zero, diversification (high end UK chocolates) or exit are your best bet. One thing for sure, you will have to do something. Brexshit ain't go away and parity looks increasingly likely. Good luck
THM while there may be a solution in the future there is already an impact to businesses and consumers and nothing has happened. I think that the uncertainty and stress associated with this is what is frustrating Zippy. It only takes a short term dip for small businesses to fold and if I look at my local high street never come back 🙁
In all honesty I would hope that the government focused their free trade efforts on the basic food stuffs and the power that comes through the undersea cables. Anything that is a luxury item which gets sorted first will perhaps show negotiating resources are not used wisely.
Business plans need to be in place well before any "deal" is announced and the bit of a mess of the process so far is not helping with planning. I know the company I work for has frozen all new works in the U.K. And is moving 3 of the plants to mainland Europe which is shit for everyone
I don't doubt the stress levels - remember I was a remainer who highlighted uncertainty as one of the biggest risks - and for SMEs it is very, very stressful indeed.
I am frustrated too, but life's tough and sometimes shit. But you have to deal with it.
With parity likely on €£ it's going to get tougher for ZK - hence my "good luck"
It's no comfort to him, but exporters of UK chocolate are having a field day 😯
interesting not a single post from the Remainers on the EU Commissioners travel disgrace or the Polish Chlorine / Formaldahide chicken issue (required treamsnt to stem Salmonella outbreak) or Dutch egg scandal.
what? we're supposed to argue your side of it ourselves now?
in any case for the life of me I can't see the link between stuff that shouldn't happen like this and us leaving. people do bad things irrespective of whatever flag waves over their heads. they shouldn't, they know it, and they should be punished for it. how does us leaving alter what other people do?
of course this sort of thing never happens in the UK. [url= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_horse_meat_scandal ]oh, hang on..[/url]
By 16 January 2013 four subsidiaries of ABP had been accused of supplying adulterated meat. They were Silvercrest in County Monaghan, Dalepak in North Yorkshire, Freshlink in Glasgow, ABP Nenagh in County Tipperary, Ireland and Dairy Crest, Rossington.
as for corrupt civil servants, see any issue of private eye, ever.
EU vested interests in farming to the fore mixed with that epically proportioned EU gravy train.
fair play. we could ask James Dyson about that too, though i understand he's rather keen on keeping subsidy payments going post-brexit. 🙄
What exactly are we fixing here?
I'm being asked to pay a price what will I get in return?
And these uk chocolate exporters get their chocolate from where?
What country can they magically buy chocolate from cheaper than last year?
Why? because that is what is in EVERYONEs interests.
But it's not. In fact, almost the opposite.
Tbc, a practical solution is in everyone's interests (not Brexshit itself!!)
London School of Economics research shows even Remain voters favour a "hard" Brexit. The Lib Dems / SNP / Plyd "soft" Brexit positions are only supported by 60% of their voters
https://order-order.com/2017/08/11/remoaners-lose-as-voters-strongly-back-hard-brexit/
The fields will be full of cocoa, farmers will be rolling in it, chocolate exporters will employ millions...
Oh hang on...
If someone had said before the referendum, that 13 months later and 5 months post article 50, the govt would still be internally debating what sort of vague outline of a transitional plan they wished to ask the EU27 for, they'd have been laughed at.
It's not a laughing matter any more.
What exactly are we fixing here?
I'm being asked to pay a price what will I get in return?
And these uk chocolate exporters get their chocolate from where?
What country can they magically buy chocolate from cheaper than last year?
One that we sign a free or reduced tariff trade deal with, you can have a simple addendum to WTO with specific countries. As per the coffee example the EU applies penal tariffs to roasted coffee beans but not to raw beans so that the value added prodiction is focused in the EU (Germany in particular) at the expense of economic development of poorer countries
Jamba how do I get one of these trade deals?
I'm just sorting out our credit card terminal supplier and then I'll get right on it.
London School of Economics research shows even Remain voters favour a "hard" Brexit. The Lib Dems / SNP / Plyd "soft" Brexit positions are only supported by 60% of their voters
[url= https://www.buzzfeed.com/jamesball/remain-and-leave-voters-are-surprisingly-united-on-backing?utm_term=.sd7Pwv4rm#.xvka6PJb5 ]Not exactly Jamba...........[/url] A more in-depth analysis. As ever the real answer is somewhat more nuanced than your choice sound bite would suggest and interpretation of the answers has to be done in context of the the study methods and the actual questions asked.
A key point is that they were asked in the context of "assuming that we are definitely leaving the EU how should we do it" and whether they thought that their preferred outcome reflected the outcome of the referendum. These 2 points are key and the outcomes of the study are meaningless without looking at them with this in mind.
"In contrast, Remainers are more divided, with the majority favouring a ‘soft Brexit’ but others favouring aspects of a ‘hard Brexit’. Overall, this means that there is on aggregate higher levels of support for outcomes that resemble the ‘hard Brexit’ position put forward by the government."
Lazy jambas
Rather than being asked simply whether they support EU membership or not, respondents were instead grilled over a series of conditions imposed on Britain as a result of being in the bloc.
its therefore impossible to conclude[ as the question was never even posed]
research shows even Remain voters favour a "hard" Brexit.
The conclusion you reach is complete rubbish, utterly unfounded and simply untrue as it was NEVER EVEN ASKED.
What do you expect from a website drafted by Lord Haw-Haw, Jamba?
Order-order - a propaganda rag run by an Irishman, based in a place where you can buy citizenship.
Hmmm. Not a bunch I'd regard as impartial experts on Brexit (or anything else really).
Gutter journalism.
yes it was odd they quoted the report saying it was a forced choice and then emboldened the claim it proved that leavers supported Brexit
It was pretty poor- is it generally like that ?
Polemic to the point of lies/errors?
IS it just a polemicist blog that does not care for facts or was this uncharacteristic of them - genuine q for anyone who reads it other than when linked on here.
exporters of UK chocolate are having a field day
Are they really? They must be in a special niche because the latest ONS figures show that the trade deficit actually widened in June despite the expected boost from the fall in Sterling.
It doesn't seem hopeful that'll improve any once the higher input costs of raw materials start being fully reflected.
DONT BRING FACTS INTO OPTIMISM
Yes - they are
Yes - it is a niche, but relevant to discussions ^
You are referring to the well known J-curve effect
Jamba - out of curiosity, were you posting from "order order" as a genuine source of information? Or were you just trolling the more fervent remainers on here?
It is pretty obvious that a remainer is not likely to want a hard Brexit, don't think you need to do any research to come to that conclusion. If there has to be a Brexit then a remainer will want the softest Brexit possible which would be as close to not leaving as possible.
Yes but perversely to get as soft a Brexshit as possible you have to convince nos amis that you would take a hard one. The EU don't negotiate, they bully. So you have to stand up to them. - like the bully/bullies on [s]here[/s] the Internet. If they believe that we won't walk away, they will make it hard for us. If they think we won't blink, then they will be prepared to compromise. Negotiating 101
So I want a soft Brexshit with a long transition, hence very happy for the nutters to go on "pretending" that we might just walk away with a hard on
THM - I think the problem is you have more faith in the nutters 'pretending'. I think the silly bastards will happily walk away...
What was your last ban for again?like the bully/bullies on here the Internet.
you seem to keep going on and on about these sort of folk on the internet for some reason yet you seem to have a beam in thine own eye.
You really are in a weak position to lecture us on how to behave on the internet [ as I am to be fair] but not had a ban for a couple of years iirc as I try to be a wee bit nicer these days. Perhaps you could do the same rather than lecture others ?
they will make it hard fir us whatever and they always were as it has to be worse out the club than in it.If they believe that we won't walk away, they will make it hard for us
I am not sure you really do need to convince them we will blow ourselve sup instead of compromising as a negotiation tactic when such an outcome is much much worse for us than them from nuclear treaties to access to the skies its a threat we cannot really deliver on it- see also North korea and Trumps latest I wont compromise spat for how successful that sort of approach is when both employ it. It leads to nowhere but ludicrous rhetoric.