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Getting back to Brexit.... I know that we're not meant to just accuse leavers of being a bunch of xenophobic, racist thicko's but sometimes it really is difficult. They're having the usual Brexit phone in that they have every other day on Five Live. While 'discussing' Mays deal some UKIPer has just stated that it amounts to treason and therefore she should be executed.
Raab now saying staying in the EU is better than May's Brexit deal
And that's only just occurred to him, has it? After he''s recovered from the bombshell that as an island we're quite dependent on our ports.
He's a bright lad, isn't he?
Like I said, I know that we’re not meant to just accuse leavers of being a bunch of xenophobic, racist thicko’s but sometimes........
Raab now saying staying in the EU is better than May’s Brexit deal
I would like to think 99% of people would realise that. If this was a personal deal you had with a company and got offered this you would just say no thanks I will stay as I am. People need to think of it like that rather than worrying about will of people, positions in government and so on.
Coyote - "Have you seen his suit? He is already doing that. How a man with so much money can dress so badly is completely beyond me."
Anyone who combines spots and stripes is deeply suspect. What is Saville Row coming to?
It's hardly his fault. That style was probably quite in vogue when his family bought it in the 1890s.
"I'll bite your your legs off."
She. Will. Never. Give. Up.
Anyway, talking about Knights…
https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1065994139307778048?s=21
No deal Brexit is Undeliverable.
There's zero enthusiasm for that in parliament or the public, for good reasons that anyone with any sense knew about since before the referendum.
What we have now is May's deal which is catastrophic in terms of us being a rule taker with added ambiguity, or remain as we are.
I'm very interested to see the outcome of the Scottish case that's currently with the European Court of justice to decide whether we can unilaterally retract A50.
The ECJ has agreed to fast trac/prioritise it and it's being heard next week.
There’s zero enthusiasm for that in parliament or the public
You say that, but.
http://www.melaniephillips.com/brexiteers-start-promoting-no-deal-fast
Her argument appears to be that we already have a deal and are trying to leave with a deal, so we must stop that and leave without a deal so that we can start making a deal. Or something.
Or something.
SQUIRRELLLLLLLLLLLL
Or if we get what we wanted and it's shit it wasn't what we really wanted which was something different but it's not our fault we couldn't deliver it, really is somebody else fault.
And May has had to concede over Gibraltar as well. So by my reckoning thats every red line crossed. Every. Single. One.
Theresa May has given way to Madrid’s demands over the future of Gibraltar after the Spanish prime minister threatened to “veto” the Brexit deal due to be signed off by EU leaders on Sunday.
On the eve of Sunday’s special Brexit summit, the British ambassador to the EU, Sir Tim Barrow, wrote to concede that Gibraltar would not necessarily be covered by a future trade deal with the EU.
The development gives Spain a veto over Gibraltar benefiting from a future trade and security agreement between Brussels and the British government.
Some top trolling by the ERG
https://www.iaindale.com/articles/tory-mps-go-to-war-over-john-hayes-utter-cock-knighthood
And May has had to concede over Gibraltar as well. So by my reckoning thats every red line crossed. Every. Single. One.
I thought she had a shit job to do either way she was damned ...but now she's done the clean flush of not actually brexit means brexiting and selling us all down the river I have a hard time thinking any other thought than **** you may
I'm actually teetering on the edge of if it does happen it should be a big two fingers to Europe rather than the shithole were heading for in...might as well be hung as a lion than a lamb
Never mind. At least some good has come out of the whole sorry mess...
Does anyone else think it might have been a good idea if Dave had applied some "due diligence" before rushing out to offer a vote on this? You know, figuring out what the implications might be?
If there is anything Brexit has taught us, it’s that you don’t need to think things through.
There's plenty of blame to go round that's for sure.
|It was obvious right from the beginning to anyone with any sense that Mays red lines would all have to be scraped if a deal was to be got. Sure enough that's every one of them gone now.
Johnson is still shouting loudly - scrap the NI backstop - he cannot be dim enough not to realise that without it there is no deal - again something that was obvious from the beginning.
I really think and hope the Tories are never forgiven for this disaster they have inflicted on the country. More damage we are unlikely to ever recover from
Theresa May has written a letter to the public, asking us to unite behind her deal;
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46333338
I might be inclined to do so, if just once, anyone had considered myself and all the other people who voted to stay in the UK's views instead of acting as if we "lost" and the government has no responsibility to us.
Theresa May has written a letter to the public, asking us to unite behind her deal;
TM can **** right off. She's managed to put herself up there with Thatcher the way Brexit and the Tory party austerity measures are screwing over the millennial generation, the poor and less well off.. not to mention the NHS.
The only way I'd get behind her is if it were to push her off a cliff..
I think I have found TM and the tories policy inspiration, and the expectation that the lower orders should just get behind them.
I am proud to jump to my certain death for Britain
Theresa May has written a letter to the public, asking us to unite behind her deal;
No problem. So long as she promises to submit our application to join the EU on 30th March next year, I’ll sign.
TM can **** right off. She’s managed to put herself up there with Thatcher the way Brexit and the Tory party austerity measures are screwing over the millennial generation, the poor and less well off.. not to mention the NHS.
Indeed. The worrying thing is that they're about to take the shackles off that were applied by the only people who've prevented them going even further - the EU. The far right, uber-neoliberal, Ayn Rand worshipping free-marketeers are about to get handed to them what they've always dreamt of. They're literally rubbing their hands with glee at what they'll now have te power to do.
The 'left behind' areas that voted for Breit won't know whats hit 'em once this lot get really started. A lot of things we presently take for granted - the welfare state, the NHS - will be the first thing in their sights.
And if anyone thinks that Westminster will be replacing the present EU funding for projects in areas like Wales, Liverpool or the North East, they're absolutely delusional.
To be fair, as a "remainer" who the government feels they don't need to represent, I can just sit back and watch them getting on with ****ing it up with a certain detachment. That does come from the fact I won't be too badly affected though.
Theresa May has written a letter to the public, asking us to unite behind her deal;
Well I have not received mine yet, is there a reply address on it? will she read them?
New tour bus coming soon...
A bus like that might work! People seem to like simple messages.
There is a brilliant paragraph in the begging letter saying that with Brexit settled 'we can focus our energies on the issues facing the country'. No mention that these issues were created by her party.
How stupid does she think we are - oh wait.
Issues?
We are a long way from the cake and eat it we were all promised.
We are a long way from the cake and eat it we were all promised.
Well she has proved it was the easiest deal to negotiate, she could have got this deal on day 1 and we could have had 2 years to sort out a plan and decide if there was a better option.
Of course she would not have been PM then
Brilliant - Caroline Flint tweeting that not backing the deal and the possibility of a second referendum would lead to a resurgence of the far right. Is she one of Corbyns favoured acolytes? I get so confused now.
might as well be hung as a lion than a lamb
It's this sort of childish schoolyard braggadocio that has got us where are. As has been said many times, this was the inevitable result of something that wasn't practical or possible. The electorate was warned that whatever deal was made would be worse than the status quo, but they chose to believe the fantasists and voted for it anyway. I have to admit I'm enjoying watching all the chickens coming home to roost.
Well as the current UKIP debacle shows the far right are happy to show their true colours now, let them, it will put off a lot of the more rational voters, those who got persuaded by some of their slightly more normal stuff will drop them fast. then we know who the others are.
A second referendum would be in the context of this mess, it would be with a lot of the myths exposed.
Well I have not received mine yet, is there a reply address on it? will she read them?
It is on Twitter posted by @theresa_may If you don't want to write and put a stamp on an envelope there is the option of social media. You know, that platform the Leave campaign manipulated so well.
Thanks, replied explaining how she is removing my rights and freedoms, glad to see she has taken up the fantasy cash theme and revived her magic money tree in there too. Pure fantasy and delusion aimed at the simpletons again.
[i]Although I am sure mefty will be able explain why they were unable to plan for the negotiations before entering the negotiations.[/i]
The definition of "Cross that bridge when we get to it" - which is a bit of an irresponsible attitude for the average man in the street to have, but unforgivable as a government policy.
And if anyone thinks that Westminster will be replacing the present EU funding for projects in areas like Wales, Liverpool or the North East, they’re absolutely delusional.
To be fair, Liverpool voted remain.
Flint is one of those sensible labour moderates you hear so much about ie a woman of no principle who is scared of a few vocal racists in her constituency
might as well be hung as a lion than a lamb
Childish schoolyard braggadocio. By a keyboard warrior.
If you win, you need not have to explain...If you lose, you should not be there to explain!
Childish schoolyard braggadocio. By someone with the means to inflict a lot of harm.
Not a lot of difference. Be careful what exasperation can lead you to.
Indeed. The worrying thing is that they’re about to take the shackles off that were applied by the only people who’ve prevented them going even further – the EU. The far right, uber-neoliberal, Ayn Rand worshipping free-marketeers are about to get handed to them what they’ve always dreamt of. They’re literally rubbing their hands with glee at what they’ll now have te power to do.
It's like the Tory party never existed and we've been living for 40 years in a fair and free society.
I just hope the 'deal' doesn't get through the commons..
Then the MPs might have to actually start justifying thier sound bites and open the door to remaining..
Lets not forget the Scottish Court case about unilateral withdrawal of a50 is being heard at the ECJ on Tuesday I think.
There's also another case at the UK supreme court regarding whether triggering a50 was legal in the first place given the arron banks /Russian collusion. The entire thing could simply be declared void due to corruption.
How a man with so much money can dress so badly is completely beyond me.
I've wondered that myself. You could walk into any suit shop or even a retail outlet and come out looking better for less than £300.
Is he really so skinny and emaciated?
He probably is. Too much vintage wine and not enough carbs.
<em class="bbcode-em">Although I am sure mefty will be able explain why they were unable to plan for the negotiations before entering the negotiations.
First, I am pretty sure they did plan but as Von Moltke is supposed to have said "no plan survives contact with the enemy". Second, by losing her majority, May removed much of her political room for manoeuvre and has made it immensely difficult for her.
So this is entirely self inflicted then?
We failed to think through anything, but yeah if we had done that we would have known it was going to be shit.
She chose to have an election despite having an actual majority - gambling when you don't need to.
So 1/10 on both counts there.
She chose to have an election despite having an actual majority – gambling when you don’t need to.
More of a misjudgement of the public mood, which has been evident ever since and especially so with this great deal we now have the chance to take.
So this is entirely self inflicted then?
Well that could be said of the whole Brexit fiasco to be honest. We’re sleep walking into a ****ing disaster for all but the very fortunate few here.
I honestly don't think it is reasonable to describe it as a disaster. It is unquestionably a bad thing which will significantly damage the political, economic, social and cultural fabric of the country. It has already done significant harm. We will be suffering the consequences for decades, even if my prediction (of no brexit) comes to pass. There is no upside, just a downside which has a range of possible magnitudes. But it won't be as bad as the blitz or the black death, and for people whose xenophobia has no bounds, that might well be a price they consider worth paying.
But it won’t be as bad as the blitz or the black death
That’d look good on the side of a bus. Face meets palm.
I honestly don’t think it is reasonable to describe it as a disaster. It is unquestionably a bad thing which will significantly damage the political, economic, social and cultural fabric of the country. It has already done significant harm. We will be suffering the consequences for decades, even if my prediction (of no brexit) comes to pass.
Well If that isn't a disaster....
Oh wait we need bombings and mass deaths to get that one ticked. I hope your good news scenario has something other than rats and blur passports on it!!
I was thinking it would be a good slogan for the upcoming referendum. "Probably not as bad as the Black Death" vs "Let's just go home and have a cup of tea".
I've heard a lot of disaster rhetoric thanks to my involvement in climate change. For most people, most places, most of the time, "meh" is a more appropriate description. It's certainly worse than that for some, and bad over all, but exaggeration doesn't generally work. It's stupidly damaging self-harm which will screw up some peoples' lives quite badly to no real purpose.
two thoughts have crossed my mind today
why hasnt anyone done a keep calm and carry on poster yet
and
if guy fawkes suddenly made a bigger comeback than lazarus
But it won’t be as bad as the blitz or the black death
That’d look good on the side of a bus. Face meets palm.
Yes that's Brexiteer speak. "We got through 2 world wars this won't be as bad". Well thanks for those comforting words.
Yes that’s Brexiteer speak. “We got through 2 world wars this won’t be as bad”. Well thanks for those comforting words.
The main difference, of course, being that the two world wars and the Black Death were largely not self-inflicted. But most nations have their “making themselves look like twunts” moment, let’s just hope ours stops with being ridiculed by the rest of the world.
most nations have their “making themselves look like twunts” moment, let’s just hope ours stops with being ridiculed by the rest of the world.
you know this was completley engineered by trump to take the flak off him right
Well i am a bit fed up when i look back over my working life...
Started in 1979 in heavy engineering in the North of England...... that one took about 10 years to get pulled round and left a lot of the social problems we have today.
Then we had 2008....
Now we have Brexit....
I think by the time i hit 65 it will have been 27 shite ecomomic years out of 39.... its a wonder i have a house...
Most of the above was caused by the Tories and deregulation....
So Mrs May you can take your letter and stick it up JRMs arse, i will never forgive these people and each time one of the ****s shuffles off this mortal coil i will stand up and cheer. I hope i live long enough to get into double figures.
don't worry channel 4 are going to run future bake off episodes outside food banks throwing away the uneaten left overs in the bin in front of the poor people queuing up for a tin of beans. One of the royals is going get banged up again so we can all be happy for them. Channel 5 will run more programs about scroungers and migrants and programs about how hard it is being a billionaire. The beeb will keep wearing it's "don't rock the boat blinkers" while running more I'm all right crap programming. rainbow trout for all ?
Very unlikely that this deal will get thru parliament which then takes us into uncharted waters. NO deal is also very unlikely to get thru parliament. will the DUP vote down May in a confidence vote? I doubt it but they are so batshit mental they just might.
So what next? the only way out of the impasse is a second referendum with the question "this deal or remain" I can't see anything else getting thru the commons.
Very unlikely that this deal will get thru parliament which then takes us into uncharted waters.
I think May will make the deal a confidence issue. There's no way she can't, as she's in pretty much the same position Cameron was with the brexit vote. The big question is will she have the balls to resign if she loses? If she does there's a good chance the government will collapse, and a snap election before christmas could be a realistic prospect as I reckon May would prefer that to a second referendum.
Whatever happens it's going to be chaos. Markets crashing, pound plummeting, leadership campaigns (perhaps in both parties if labour's brexit divides explode), and whatever else. Part of me wonders if we might be better off they vote it through.
This ‘deal’s’ going all the way. When it comes down to it, the self-serving MP’s will be too scared to force a no deal. There is simply not enough momentum behind a referendum.
The ‘people’ are, frankly, sick of Brexit. Remoaners are only a slightly bigger minority than the rabid gammons. The majority of the voting public just don’t care any more.
If May makes it a confidence issue then the government collapses for sure and I am sure she knows it. The DUP will never vote for it and the few bampots on the labour benches that might vote for the deal will surely not if it becomes a confidence vote.
If she doesn't make it a confidence issue it will be the biggest abdication of political responsibility and accountability I can remember. It's her deal, she has negotiated it, pushed it in the face of massive opposition and now is begging for everyone to get behind it. If it doesn't go through she has to go, it's as simple as that. If she doesn't she's going to look like a tin-pot dictator clinging on to power by her fingertips.
Tin pot dictators tend to exert more authority, she is just the lamest of lame duck leaders.
The deal will go through parliament . No deal too dangerous
The alternative is remain tho - not no deal no matter how much May wants to paint it. there is no majority in parliament for either no deal or this deal
And no deal of course means its highly likely that Scotland will go for independence - no objection from Spain now for Scotland to remain in the EU and a fair chance NI rejoins the republic
Nobody is presenting remain as a realistic alternative. May and other politicians are only talking about the possibility of no Brexit to bait the gammons. Think of it as saying that a bad deal is better than no Brexit.
I still think the potential for no deal is uncomfortably high, but the ‘deal’ seems more likely. I no longer hold any hope of remaining.
a fair chance NI rejoins the republic
Hmmm. That may be a way off...
Remain won't be an option The Tories and Labour have said they will carry on with the will of the people.
Wait until the end of the SNP case gets to verdict
What difference will the ECJ judgement make? The EU27 would wave through any request to rescind A50. The will to do so is not there in any kind of majority, not within Parliament nor the general public (at least not those who get off their fat arses and vote).
What difference will the ECJ judgement make?
I would undermine the BS position the leaders are pushing that there are no other options. That is where you start with public opinion
Point of order
It's not a snp case
Polls show in the event of a no Deal brexit a clear majority in Ni for unification and under gfa the right is there to hold a vote
The majority of the public will just view it as political chicanery. They won’t really care about its implications.
Ah OK then so if people can stand up and call BS on the A50 that won't change opinions
Given the tide is turning against brexit it comes down to how far people want to go.
The majority of the public will just view it as political chicanery.
So what do the majority want?
My belief is that the majority just want Brexit done. It’s old news.
As much as I want to Remain, it must be based on a voted majority, but that vote ain’t happening this side of the 29th March 2019.
If Brexit is seen to be called off on a technicality with no direct mandate from ‘the people’ I fear that would be more damaging in the long-term than Leaving.
My belief is that the majority just want Brexit done. It’s old news.
Public opinion is important, giving people a direction to rally around is interesting and important, if you have no option to align with then there is apathy. Give people a direction and see them rally behind it
More boat people were picked up in the channel today.
Surely brexit was going to stop this sort of thing.
Don't these illegal immigrants realise it's even more illegallerer now.