There comes a point when pragmatic realpolitik has to come into play. Unfortunately, that was about six months ago and since then our "bloody difficult" PM and buffoon in the Foreign Office have frittered away any goodwill.
yeah, barnier must be really shitting himself.....remind me why?
Does a transition deal have to be agreed by all 27 members?
28 I think
Because no deal is bad for everyone - and I would be worried and pi**ed off by the lack of progress so far
He also has a responsibility to deliver a deal and it's not looking likely
Don't forget we all lose here, if they don't agree.
Because no deal is bad for everyone - and I would be worried and pi**ed off by the lack of progress so farHe also has a responsibility to deliver a deal and it's not looking likely
Which means at some point the EU will say f-off and stop worrying about the UK and deal with themselves. Brexit is an unwanted sideshow that as you say helps no one, but it does offer opportunities, even if that is to asset strip the UK.
I see the OBR have had to put out a statement contradicting Damien Green at PMQs today
they arent assessing the impact of no deal as he claimed
really do wish they could be fact checked in real time
does that mean the gov really arent contemplating it or they really arent looking into things properly?
It means there isn't really a functioning govt at the moment. Nor any prospect of one forming.
Looks like the Telegraph are finally beginning to reconnect with sanity:
[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/12180680/The-idea-of-buccaneer-Britain-trading-freely-outside-the-EU-is-a-fantasy.html ]The Telegraph[/url]
It'll be the Mail and Express next.
That Telegraph comment piece was from before the Referendum, no?
All it would take would be an EU ban on Desmond's gutter pron empire and Dacre being unable to access scones and knotted handkerchiefs on his holidays in the south of France...
As a fellow forumite has pointed out, I neglected to date check that Telegraph article.
If it comes down to a 'no deal' or 'stay in at least for now" decision....apart from the obvious problem of getting the EU27 to all agree, who in the UK gets to make that choice…? Serious question. Does May's cunning avoidance of a vote by our parliaments in that scenerio still apply? If both front benches decide to avoid that vote, is there a mechanism for back benchers, or even us low life outside parliament, to insist on it?
[i][For those that can't remember back to before the butterfingers election, currently parliament get to vote on any deal… but if there is no deal… that's it… no vote… amendments to insist on parliament, or voters, having a say if no deal is reached, were voted down.][/i]
Interesting piece here (about Euratom and links to tweets on previous page):
http://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/news/the-fatal-divide-for-business-in-brexit-britain/ar-BBEgE8f?li=AAmiR2Z&ocid=spartandhp
Key being the comments are from a very pro-leaver!
Article is about Trump
But rings very true for Brexiters !
https://theconversation.com/inside-the-minds-of-trumps-true-believers-79986?
For men to plunge headlong into an undertaking of vast change, they must be intensely discontented yet not destitute.” They must also have “an extravagant conception of the prospects and potentialities of the future” and “be wholly ignorant of the difficulties involved in their vast undertaking..........understood that the true believer is rarely concerned with facts. He wrote, “It is futile to judge the viability of a new movement by the truth of its doctrine and the feasibility of its promises.”
Chocolate Orange anyone?
Has the lack of posting on here been due to everyone concentrating on the TdF, or is everyone now content that the wheels are coming off and no more needs to be said?
The shit has been launched, we are waiting for it to arrive in the fan area.
That's no way to refer to our esteemed Brexit negotiators Moly - to be fair on past performance they'll probably u-turn before they reach the fan.
is everyone now content that the wheels are coming off and no more needs to be said?
Pretty much this AFAIC. Not really any credible counter-argument.
is everyone now content that the wheels are coming off and no more needs to be said?
don't think that means we won't get pushed off the cliff regardless...
i think we have all realised it would be as messy as we predicted and that we just need to wait a few months to see what happens next
Tory alliance with lab to stay in the market? Scotland or Wales vetoing it
May saying something different?
Labour divided by in fighting just as much a the Tories
All along we just need to see what th epublic mood is
Unlike jamby I think the more the fiacos ensues and the worse the news gets the more there will be a swing to some version of remain
I still do not think its done deal not least becaus ethey deal they will do will be acceptable to about the 15-25% of hardcore EU haterz/little englanders only
Most folk want a sort of cake and eat it settlement* so the only real issue is whether the politicians make it happen via Hof C defeats or the public modd changes to force them
Its also possible it just gets pushed through but I think that is the least likely
Possibly a GE on the issue never mind a referendum.
* we must reject the notion[ its a lie] that vote leave was a vote for hard brexit not lest as it was not what Vote leave campaigned for
I'm still hoping that Boris will be prepared to stand for pm and bravely put the needs of the country before his own personal beliefs and do a drastic u turn back into the eu.
Crazier things have happened.
Boris prioritising anything over the interests of Boris?
I wouldn't hold my breath for that one
I see this morning that Easyjet are relocating their offices to Austria. The exodus has started
I'm more likely to see Nicola Sturgeon wearing a union flag over her shoulders whilst sprinting down The Mall shouting "Isn't this blessed union a wonderful thing?" than Boris has of a public reconciliation with the truth.
the only thing boris believes in is boris.
Nice to see the OBR come out and say we're screwed if growth and tax income drops, which they will according to everyone across the brexit divide.
The whole thing is a farce, but who is actually going to hit the brakes. At the moment it seems to be a game of chicken, and no one is willing to back down.
oh the wheels on the bus are falling off off off, off off off....
Easyjet arent closing their office in Luton yet, until they know whats happening with the deal but staff are apparently very nervous
Would be bad for the town and the airport- which is a big contributor to the local economy, so any effects would be felt very hard in an already deprived ared.
mrmo - Member
Nice to see the OBR come out and say we're screwed if growth and tax income drops, which they will according to everyone across the brexit divide.
even jambs reckons it will be 10 years of pain before we see any improvement
if the OBR are right they could be a miserable 10 years then 🙁
[url= http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/ryanair-brexit-michael-oleary-open-skies-eu-european-parliament-a7836511.html ]http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/ryanair-brexit-michael-oleary-open-skies-eu-european-parliament-a7836511.html[/url]
I assume this has been covered already?
May has accepted that the Scots and Welsh parliaments need to be consulted and to vote on it ( legislative consent motion / Sewell convention)- and there is no way on earth that consent will be forthcoming. Major elephant in the room. Whats she going to do then? Suspend both parliaments? Force it thru despite votes against in both parliaments?
The power grab is real and felt strongly north of the border on both sides of the independence and the EU debate. A significant factor in the last GE in scotland was fishing rights. One reason why the tories won seats and something that is clearly a major factor in scottish politics.
If fishing rights stay with Westminster, Davidson is toast and she knows it. I can see a lot of wrangling over this
June 23 2016 - 52:48 leave
June 30 2017 - 52-54:48-46 remain (youGov and Survation) respectively
And the trend is consistently towards remain within a given company's polling.
Brexit is part of the past - time to get shot of it.
@igm everything is on track. Posturing in the media from the EU has been predictable. They are screwed. Repeal Bill will pass in the Autumn as easily as did the A50 legislation. The real mess is yet to come in 2018 when no "exit bill" has been agreed and for example when Spanish and French fishermen are looking at being locked out of our waters. We can buy whatever we want from the EU with a WTO tariff, or elsewhere if its cheaper. If the bankers want to go then off they can trot. I saw Corbyn refused to confirm we would remain in the single market or customs union if he where PM, he well knows we will be out of both and thats his / Labour's position too
Will catch up on the older posts over the weekend, have had a few posts here and elsewhere brought to my attention so they need to be checked.
I reckon it will have to get a lot worse before the tide actually turns, even though it's obvious enough to me that it will do so eventually. Too many people are too stupid to be able to think of the predictable consequences..they will have to see if happening first. And there will always be a hard core who just don't care about the consequences (the brexiteer I know most closely falls into this category).
[quote=jambalaya ]@igm everything is on track. Posturing in the media from the EU has been predictable. They are screwed. Repeal Bill will pass in the Autumn as easily as did the A50 legislation. The real mess is yet to come in 2018 when no "exit bill" has been agreed and Spanish Fishermen are looking at being locked out of our waters. I saw Corbyn refused to confirm we would remain in the single market or customs union if he where PM, he well knows we will be out of both and thats his / Labour's position too
Will catch up on the older posts over the weekend, have had a few posts here and elsewhere brought to my attention so they need to be checked.
^^^^
see, blinkered denial that brexit is a complete bit of a mess will push us off the cliff regardless of the consequences.
edit: when did the swear filter start replacing phrases rather than asterixing them?
Postive outlook jam bo. It was me who was proven right about the virtual non impact on the economy of the referendum vote, unlike IMF and HM Treasury who where left with a lot of egg on their faces
^^^^
see above.
It was me who was proven right about the virtual non impact on the economy of the referendum vote
We're in a worse place now than we were 10 yrs ago!
You might be alright 'Jack' but there a hell o a lot of folks who aren't!
It was me who was proven right about the virtual non impact on the economy of the referendum vote [b]that is non impact to those of us who have access to enough wealth and financial 'products' to hedge our position either way[/b]
FTFY.
The yacht owners are never truly ****ed, they just have to downsize to two more bedrooms than people in the house and restrict themselves to n+1 cars where n = number of adults in the household who can drive.
Meanwhile, for everyone else (let's call them 'the irrelevant') it means any semblance of recovery and the chance of a real-terms pay rise is pretty much off the cards for a decade.
And for what? What amazing vision are we inflicting this shit on ourselves for?
Simply smashing.
Easy Jet are also opening up in Austria so they can keep on running.
. It was me who was proven right about the virtual non impact on the economy of the referendum vote
We have a long long way to go yet.
I also seem to remember you predicting a recession and/or several years of either contraction or poor growth. Still happy to be right about that?
have had a few posts here and elsewhere brought to my attention so they need to be checked.
fact checking? I suggest you start with any posts which have "jambalaya - Member" at the top.
[quote=jambalaya ]It was me who was proven right about the virtual non impact on the economy of the referendum vote, unlike IMF and HM Treasury who where left with a lot of egg on their faces
Move along, nothing to see here - of course there has been no effect on the economy at all has there? Though it's an interesting spin you put on the predictions of the effects [b]when we leave the EU[/b]
Will catch up on the older posts over the weekend, have had a few posts here and elsewhere [b]brought to my attention[/b] so they need to be checked.
F me Jambs, you have a high opinion of yourself.
jambalaya - Member
Postive outlook jam bo. It was me who was proven right about the virtual non impact on the economy of the referendum vote, unlike IMF and HM Treasury who where left with a lot of egg on their faces
Incorrect. No one has proven anything yet. But the signs don't look good do they.
However you'll be ok (as will I of course) and you basically don't seem care about the wider population of the UK who's prospects ain't good.
you basically don't seem care about the wider population of the UK
Doesn't even register that they exist except when forced to coincide with them after leaving the golf/yacht/polo club en route back to the gated housing. Maybe at a petrol station? Whilst filling up the Jag perhaps?
