May / Tories have been straight with people and have said no deal is better than a bad deal, thays obviously true
No deal is actually just a very bad deal.
P.S. When is the Eurozone meltdown happening? I was in France until Wednesday, they didn't seem to know about it. Should I have told them?
Corbyn is a lifelong Eurosceptic. Labour's position amd their Referendum campaign reflects that. Remainers voting Labour are naive in the extreme if they believe thats a "pro-EU" / "soft" Brexit option. It is not.
BMW make all their X5's in the US (as far as I am aware) - how does that work fhen ? We import £40bn worth of cars, we export £10bn worth. Moving a car factory costs a very large amount of money. Its simply not goingto happen anytime soon if at all. The UK is Germany's third largest market globally for car exports.
Has ANYONE seen ANY mention that an EU / Japan free trade deal would include blanket tariff free car import / exports ? I have seen very very little press around any such deal.
I see Barnier made a total @rse of himself today by saying; No sector by secror trade deal, no single market without freedom of movement. Well the EU just signed a sector by sector free trade deal with Canada with zero budget contributions and no freedom of movement. We are not looking for access to THE single market. We are not remaining in the customs union
@mrlebowski the A50 Trigger Bill was passed by 498 votes to 114 - that's a landslide in anyone's book. It was fully backed by the Labour leadership.
The Eurozone implosion starts Monday though, right?
Wrong, it happened years ago.Just look at the carnage in terms of unemployment, 30% fall !in wages, real austerity not our pretend versions etc.. Amazing how blind some can be to others' misfortunes. The EZ has been a catastrophe.
Sorry Jambas but the ONE thing we are seeking is ACCESS to the single market. It's only the how that is open to debate.
said no deal is better than a bad deal, thays obviously true
Its empty rhetoric that appeals to the rabidly Brexitty that is also patently false as no deal is just a worse bad deal than a bad deal
As for cars, and i am sick of having to point out the industry disagree but here it is again for you to ignore
During the negotiations, government should pursue a twin-track approach to avoid any risk of the UK leaving the EU without having established new trading terms with the EU. If such a “cliff-edge” occurred, the UK would be required to trade on the basis of World Trade Organisation (WTO) rules. This would see the application of a 10% tariff on vehicles and an average 4.5% tariff on components which will increase the cost of production, undermine competitiveness and potentially increase the cost of cars for consumers. SMMT analysis suggests that the UK motor industry faces a £4.5 billion tariff cost for cars alone which could add at least an annual £2.7 billion to imports and £1.8 billion to exports. Import tariffs could push up the list price of cars imported to the UK from the EU by an average of £1,500 if brands and their retail networks were unable to absorb these additional costs. It could also result in the introduction of significant non-tariff barriers, the loss of passporting rights for services and the prospect of having to certify exports as being compliant with EU rules which will create significant administrative burdens and additional costs. Should at the end of the negotiating period there not be an agreement on a future relationship, current arrangements should continue to apply to ensure continuity and certainty. In the longer term, government must ensure that the UK's new trading terms with the EU and the rest of the world are as good as or better than those already enjoyed by the automotive sector. To secure this, government and industry must strategically engage throughout the negotiations on the transition towards a new trading relationship with the EU and the establishment of new global opportunities.
the industries view for those who like facts from experts
Well the EU just signed a sector by sector free trade deal with Canada with zero budget contributions and no freedom of movement. We are not looking for access to THE single market. We are not remaining in the customs union
We meaning Jamby there isn't it?
Most of British industry and business wants access and in facts wants to be a member of the EU for some strange reason.
BMW make all their X5's in the US (as far as I am aware) - how does that work fhen ? We import £40bn worth of cars, we export £10bn worth. Moving a car factory costs a very large amount of money. Its simply not goingto happen anytime soon if at all. The UK is Germany's third largest market globally for car exports.
Which is why they just migrate a new model when it comes online and run down/mothball factories - take a look at Toyota, Ford and GM/Holden in Australia all are off to Asia.
If you make no cars in the UK then all cars are subject to a tariff makes it level.
Also from one of the basic rules of management and decision making No Deal/No Decision is in itself a concious choice. It is by it's very nature a deal/decison it's on the table right now. We could jump to that right now.
Some quick examples of the real WE
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and Fox has his Trump moment - they ar all picking on me
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If your pleading for sympatetic coverage then you have lost.
As if Brexit wasn't a shambles enough we have politicians pleading with the press to be gentle!
Remainers clickbait for struggling newspapers/websites. Look at the posters here desperate for any straw to clutch to have the Referendum overturned / watered down ?
Makes perfect sense for Nissan's European senior mgmt to be in France given Renault link up. Doesn't change the costs of moving prodiction or the commitment to build the new Quasquai in UK
I'll say again there is very little differemce between Labour and Tories on Brexit. Labour are being dishonest in trying to preach a "soft Brexit" message when its not possible given their manifesto commitment on freedom of movement.
If may had achieved the landslide everyone predicted good be the first to crow about her mandate for brexit. The Tories got thier arses handed to them. The British people don't have the stomach for brexit now they know what it means.
The Telegraph is doing "Remainer click bait" now is it? 😆
#losingxontrol
As an aside, the Japan deal gives them access to the single market with very few of the benefits. It only took ten years (or maybe even more).
Of course as they need us more than we need them, we'll have all this sorted in 18 months won't we?
The levels of delusion regarding trade deals and the impact of crashing out to WTO are only indicative of the blind optimism of zealous Brexiteers. They just have to shout it all a bit louder as they see the shambles unfolding and the tide of public opinion turning against them. And order the press to not expose their lies.
Jam is unable to look at this objectively, and can only look at things personally, it seems.
I'll say again
You can repeat the same thing 10,000 times if you like. We still won't believe it.
Despite all the request they are not publishing the letter they had to send to "bribe" them to stay and we have not even left yet.
Its clear they do not support a WTO arrangement and that the automotive industry expects and wants free trade to remain despite jambys political message remaining unchanged by reality
Actually, Jamba is quite correct to point out that Renault and Nissan have merged and that Paris would be a logical headquarters for the European operation.
However, making cars isn't simply a case of generating profit in the nation in which the final assembly takes place. There's a supply chain, Johnson Controls, Magnetti Marelli, Lucas, Smiths (in it's successor company forms), Bosch etc have plants all over Europe which supply semi-built ancillaries in a modular format to a specification issued by the manufacturer. These will be sourced from a wide geographical area and supplied to factories on a just in time basis.
It doesn't take a genius to work out that crashing out of the customs union would put the kybosh on this. It's not just our auto industry - look at aerospace. The complete wing for an Airbus is built in Wales, by a highly skilled workforce. How are we meant to export these complete wing structures for final assembly in Toulouse? Our Eurofighter Typhoon and F-35 jets are both built in several countries and rely on the Customs Union in order to be constructed.
No straw clutching here jamby, brexit is dead already, I'm just enjoying the show.
I wouldn't say Brexit is dead yet. The morons are still in charge. remember we don't need experts.
To be honest whatever the fall out the UK is going to suffer, we will loose the various agencies, we will lose a number of companies etc. wages and inflation are still going to hurt many people. We are going to lose the rebate, and the various opt outs.
If Brexit is finally killed i am personally in favour of a hard remain, drive on the right, ban imperial measurements, Schengen etc. If your going to piss on Murdoch and the Tories you might as well do the job properly!
If Brexit isn't killed, lots will desert the country because it will get poorer. If you want evidence look around the world and ask why the Irish are virtually everywhere, that is the future of Brexit England. For those that stay, when they realise that taking back control only meant Oxbridge/Eton types and not the voters.
If Brexit isn't killed, lots will desert the country because it will get poorer
Only the foreigners. The Brits won't be able to, unless they are lucky. We'll be stuck here.
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40520218 ]Example of the EU being unable to make trade deals[/url]
Anyone who wants to can leave now (personal circumstances allowing). Though I believe some other countries are a bit more restrictive about freedom of movement than the UK has chosen to be.
Brexit is starting to get really funny.
Here's laughing at you Brexy.
Japan won't be so happy when 500000000 turks rock up at their door.
Only the foreigners. The Brits won't be able to, unless they are lucky. We'll be stuck here.
Be a bit more positive, if you have the skills and/or are young there are options. NZ/Aus working visas etc. I am sure Macron would be happy to accept UK engineers and scientists...
And obviously if you are rich you can buy citizenship virtually anywhere.
Headline of the Telegraph is click bait????
Wonders if Jamba has suffered a concussion
Nope. No concussion. Brexies in denial.
But, but, but everyone voted for economic meltdown and no jobs*
OK only 85% and I may have overplayed Brexit a little.
Brexit is done and dusted, we are leaving. The only question is the type of post Brexit trade arrangement. Both main parties agree no freedom of movement and hence no single market (so says the EU).
Tried to find some details of the EU / Japan "trade deal" really there are none apart from Donald Tusk talking it up as per the link above. Supposedly there could be a 15 year transition period to help both "countries" adjust. [b]15 years ffs[/b] 😯 seems the Japanese get to sell tariff free cars and the Europeans milk, err great deal mes amis / meine freuden 😳 oh and the deal isn't actaully done yet after 4 years just an oitline agreement in principal. The EU hasn't signed a meaningful trade deal ever aside from Canada and that took 8 years
Jambalaya your posts remind me of some of the highly ineffective project managers and leads I've worked with. When faced with criticism that they are driving the wrong way down a one way street the only thought is to go faster so that things cannot be undone.
Your Brexit at any cost plan isn't supported by most people, nobody (including those who voted tory and labour agree that they also didn't vote for Brexit) has the stomach for the massive pain that will follow. Business doesn't want it.
Also took about 2s on google
http://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/in-focus/eu-japan-economic-partnership-agreement/agreement-explained/
http://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/in-focus/eu-japan-economic-partnership-agreement/
Couldn't find or didn't want to?
One of the great things about our unwritten constitution and amendments is that we've ultimately ended up with a parliamentary system whereby the best of us are in theory nominated to stand and represent our interests.
Now, democracy often gets it wrong, but it will occasionally make a huge difference. Honestly, did everyone who voted leave do so with the fullest of information in front of them? Heck, I voted Remain with only my interpretation of the facts.
So here we are, no-one either Leave or Remain voted to be without the Single Market. Nor did anyone vote against a common policy on atomic research.
But the result and thinking isn't binary. There's stuff noone considered publicly. Empire 2.0 isn't the answer, nor is a racist, freewheelin' "truly global" economy with low skills, low productivity and zero rights for the wage slaves turning the cogs.
That window is closing. The hard right of the Conservative Party needs to confront the fact that the in-fighting and constant policy blunders will render the entire party an irrelevance for a decade, or it will be forever be utterly divisive and controversial.
This is the worst loss of collective face since Suez.
It's ok trump says a UK US trade deal will be done 'very quickly'
One cannot wait to see what the orange one comes up with and v whether it'll be as efficiently handled as his Muslim ban, trumpcare or that wall he built 😉
His next line will be "who could have known a trade deal could be so complicated"
Trump trade deal with the U.K.:
"You WILL take anything we in the USA make. We might take range rovers."
I can't wait for steroid-marinated beef.
Given Trump has been clear he will make deals in the interest of the US then surely no deal is better than a bad deal 😉
Yay, chlorine washed chicken heading our way!
It's ok trump says a UK US trade deal will be done 'very quickly'
Isn't it obvious? We lease Trident, our aircraft carriers will need US help, the US airbases etc....
We will soon be annexed by the US.
Any deal can be done quickly if only one side is stating the terms for the other to accept.
Say hello to labels on meat and milk that say hormone fed animals show are good for you...
Still as everyone seems to keep voting for people who want us to be like the USA as soon as we jettison the eu we can also get rid of those nasty things like holidays, unions, consumer rights, competition laws..,
we can also get rid of those nasty things like holidays, unions, consumer rights, competition laws..,
Early doors on the sherbert?
Surprised (1) that the Brexshit Bugle published that and (2) that Javed hasn't realised that the vote was lost. Amnesia?
Surprised (1) that the Brexshit Bugle published that and (2) that Javed hasn't realised that the vote was lost. Amnesia?
Hmmm, that vote was so last year, this years election results tell a slightly different story.
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True, having. a GE with the two main parties both committed to Brexit was pretty clear. Agreed. Amazing how so many can't let the old vote go, isn't it?
True, having. a GE with the two main parties both committed to Brexit was pretty clear. Agreed. Amazing how so many can't let the old vote go, isn't it?
It doesn't matter whether both parties(for political reasons) are "committed" to brexit, when the dream meets the hard reality of the costs, the dream dies.
More like a nightmare, but sadly this is not one that you can wake up from...
More like a nightmare, but sadly this is not one that you can wake up from...
Being honest even if Brexit happens, it won't last IMO, the reasons the UK joined in the first place are still valid. The UK is a lost post imperial country that can't get over it.
