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Well Britain remains in a customs union, and the city get 80% of what they asked for so that should save off any immediate economic crash, freedom of movement seems to be remaining for the time being (although the details are a little unclear).
But I haven't seen yet how much Britain has to pay for that, and with the loss of influence it is a bad deal compared to what we currently have. And still the rhetoric is to pander to the extreme rather than be truthful, so the country will remain divided and hateful which will be exploited by right and papered over by the left.
I thought the whole mess of brexit and trumps America would show people that simple moronic answers to complex problems do not work, but actually the media coverage and the exploitation by those who just want power is getting worse. I predict that Britain will get an alt-right leader at the next election.
Mark Francois, the vice-chair to Rees Mogg on the ERG was just interviewed on Five Live. From his reaction to the 'deal' you could only ask yourself what planet these people are actually living on? They're all absolutely delusional.
Its terrifying that people this clearly detached from reality (and it has to be said... terminally dense) are having such a disproportionate effect on our countries future.
Theresa May looks like a towering poolitical collosas in comparison to these idiots
Of course, once again, its all talk of leadership bids. Its like groundhog day.
If anyone fancies a laugh (or a stare into the void) then the phone in at 9 on Five Live is a 'discussion' of the Deal. Expect an hour of thick as mince, ranting gammons. We could play Gammon bingo? Empire? Second World War? Winston Churchill? Great Trading Nation? yadda yadda yadda....
Raab has just resigned
dumb it down for me please
That is how we got to where we are today.
So, that's it then? Easiest negotiations in history concluded.
Boris, when does the £350m a week to the NHS start to flow - must be now, surely?
Oh dear. to lose one minster is unfortunate, to lose two is careless. to lose a dozen?
Who's going next?
Ok it’s time to ask the question, what in the name of all things holy is going on.
I feel for the maybot..
corbyns fault
How does this deal compare to Norway? Farage has previously been very happy with a norway deal.
So these people back her in cabinet, let her walk out and announce that, then knife her the next morning. I suppose it should be predictable by now.
It's amazing that all barnier has to do is look happy and tory party implodes 🙂
I reckon McVey and Mordaunt will be gone within a couple of hours.
Rats leaving the sinking ship
I feel for the maybot..
I don't, she has been completely politically outmanoeuvred in a way that was obvious to foresee from the start, and has allowed the personal ambition at the heart of the tory party to drive the country to the brink of disaster.
I wonder if we look back over this thread how many proclaimed the Machiavellian genius of bringing the grand brexiters right into the heart of government, and how idiotic that policy now looks.
Dominic Raab resigns
May just got owned with bombers.
This is becoming rather amusing, I have no sympathy for May whatsoever after her stint as Home Secretary.
How does this deal compare to Norway?
we don't know we have negotiated that bit yet !
General election called by the end of the month, with Boris temporary PM?
Well, Norway is an attractive and prosperous country which has good trading relations with its neighbours, this deal is a shit sandwich which we can either eat or get pushed off a cliff.
HTH
The Tories are doomed, & I won't shed a tear..
Corbyn is unpalatable to a large section of the electorate - in a similar fashion to the Tories he has no love for the EU. Labour can seem equally split with division...
GE & a hung parliament with a possible coalition of Labour & the Libs before Easter? I can't see the Tories getting back in if there is a GE but how can they carry on as they are? Stricken & rife with factions right across the board....
Omni**** shambles doesn't even come close to describing the situation!
Rats leaving the sinking ship
Sums it up. Problem is, I'm standard class and don't have a life jacket or lifeboat for my future.
Boris temporary PM?
Boris got us in this mess. And more and more people are seeing it as a mess. He will never be PM now.
good trading relations with its neighbours
The Norway/Sweden is a very real barrier for them both. Speak to anyone exporting from Norway to EU. Anyway, EEA isn't the proposal at all. Just NI is guaranteed that kind of access.
oh dear DUP have the knifes out
Well the electorate got politicians and policies that reflect their views, contradictory, Ill thought through, bigoted and based on blind faith not facts.
Looks like 2 options left on the table, crash out , no deal, looking more likely or stay in, slight glimmer of hope but not a lot. Any form of third way won't get a majority in parliament.
If you think about it the middle way of a deal was flawed from the start, if you want EU benefits you join the EU, that's the point of the EU.
The cabinet will definitely agree once all the people who disagree resign me are replaced....
question is as the situation is time limited can the other parties push for a vote while the Tories have a leadership contest or does everything need to stop and if May is ousted and a Brexiteer is installed that could be a significant enough swing to say the party outlook has changed enough that they no longer represent the views they were elected with so pushes a ge
I don’t, she has been completely politically outmanoeuvred in a way that was obvious to foresee from the start, and has allowed the personal ambition at the heart of the tory party to drive the country to the brink of disaster.
I wonder if we look back over this thread how many proclaimed the Machiavellian genius of bringing the grand brexiters right into the heart of government, and how idiotic that policy now looks.
<span class="bbp-reply-post-date">Posted 10 minutes ago</span>
Yeah Its kind of like this is how history will remember you.....hence I feel for her
So these people back her in cabinet, let her walk out and announce that, then knife her the next morning. I suppose it should be predictable by now.
Well given what happened after the Chequers "Agreement", yes, totally predictable.
So that is now Raab, Davies and Boris who were at the heart of the negotiations, failed to get a better deal and then ran away like cowards because of the deal they negotiated. The front page of every newspaper should be labelling them as liars cheats and cowards
are the DUP prepared to oust the government over the deal ?
Omni**** shambles doesn’t even come close to describing the situation!
Dunno how long does it take to start a new political party
Sums it up. Problem is, I’m standard class and don’t have a life jacket or lifeboat for my future.
Good analogy. I think we're all feeling like we're presently below decks on the titanic, while our politicians rearrange the deck chairs
So these people back her in cabinet, let her walk out and announce that, then knife her the next morning. I suppose it should be predictable by now.
To be fair to these ex-ministers, they are asked to back an outline presented (spun) to them, before they get a chance to actually read in detail what it is that they are being asked to back.
(spun)
nice way of putting it
😉
A link for TJ (suggesting he was right a few hundred pages ago).
https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/stories/2018-10-23/eu-doctors-nurses-hospitals-staffing-crisis
the pound is off the cliff too
As a politician I have no sympathy for May at all but as a person I cannot but help feel a little sorry for her
I believe that she is doing this out of a sense of duty in that she believes she is the only person who can get a deal that will satisfy the EU and the tory party and she looks absolutely tortured by it. the sense of duty is the only reason I can see that she keeps on trying in what is obviously an impossible task
Its obvious this deal will not get thru parliament but that it will be very difficult to get a vote of no confidence thru parliament either ( very differnt from a vote of no confidence internally in the tory party which merely deposes her not the government
I think its ow quite likely that the deal will not get thru parliament but she will probably win a parliamentary confidence vote leaving her and the tory government in a total mess with no way forward at all as her main political aim is dead but the government limps on as a total dead duck unable to move foreward on this.
Will she actually resign?
Kelvin - indeed that was obvious many months ago. Spain trains too many nurses, UK not enough so we used to import a lot of spanish nurses. Now we no longer do.
Well, I'm off to buy euros, a crossbow and tinned food....it's been real yall. The people wanted Brexit and for their sins, they have been given one.
I believe that she is doing this out of a sense of duty in that she believes she is the only person who can get a deal that will satisfy the EU and the tory party and she looks absolutely tortured by it.
With that in mind, the penny should probably drop that, as a remainer, the best thing she can do for the country is to resign, let chaos reign and hopefully present an opportunity for someone/anyone to get this shitshow called off or at least deferred.
Well, I’m off to buy euros
Should have done that yesterday, really. Get your skates on and you might get to the post office while you can still get 1:1
ah yes the corn laws I remember them well!
pull yer pants up paddy
Labour very clear this morning that they will vote down the deal. Ministers wouldn't be resigning to do anything other than to vote down the deal. DUP to vote down the deal. Time for more vocal calls, from everyone, to extend A50 and let us vote.
Best not book that European holiday too quickly...
https://twitter.com/SiCarswell/status/1063001144077758465?s=19
Like TJ, I have sympathy for May.
She was served a sh1t sandwich & left on her own to eat it - compounded by ERG et al who wanted to add their own particular shite to said sandwich & then leave her to choke on it....
As barmy as it may sound I think history will judge her more kindly than most when this ridiculous debacle is finally concluded..
How does this deal compare to Norway?
We're just pining for the fjords
when this ridiculous debacle is finally concluded..
How is it concluded though?
who's Raab doing this for ?
who’s Raab doing this for ?
Raab.
and another
Esther McVey
May will no doubt be even more worried by the fact that Gove is apparently backing her. Either he's about to knife her, or is positioning himself for a pop at the top job. Lady MacBeth is obviously learning from the Boris experience.
How is it concluded though?
- Satellite state with little or no say over the regional economy we are part of.
- Singapore style economy after many years of rebalance and loss.
- EU member with opt outs on Euro, closer integration and Schengen.
pick one
@franksinatra.....
Don't ask me!
In an ideal World I suppose Canada+++, but that's entirely unworkable (due to NI) & belongs in la la land! I'm personally not bothered one iota by the union being broken up or otherwise but I know others feel it is important - though I fail to understand why?
WTO is off the cards as Russia is objecting & isn't likely to change that stance any time soon.
The current deal is shite - all the rules & no say.
We are left with one option & that's to Remain..
Unless 5G unicorns with lasers are back on the table I don't think we've any other choice....
See how sorry you feel for May, when she's still earning millions into a long retirement telling her story about this shite, when people are queueing at ****ing foodbanks.
Feel sorry? gies a ****in break.
Because from day 1, it has been clear that May's version of Brexit wasn't going to get past the combined voting power of the ERG and Labour. As others have stated, rats off a sinking ship - maybe Raab initially thought he could change May's direction by making it either more palatable to the ERG or Labour.
This seriously needs to stop now. Enough is enough. It is not working, it is not going to work, it is not in the countries interest.
This supports my view that stupid people should not be allowed to vote for anything.
McVey publishes resignation
At this rate there's going to be no one left to hand letters to the 1922 comittee
– Satellite state with little or no say over the regional economy we are part of.
– Singapore style economy after many years of rebalance and loss.
– EU member with opt outs on Euro, closer integration and Schengen.
pick one
Is this a trick question? Seems too easy.
Also, you forgot:
- Marching onto the sunlit uplands of renewed empire and British pluck as we forge new trade deals with Togo and the Solomon Islands.
Unsurprisingly the £ is falling again...
I need to stop reading this thread, my head hurts. So we are neither in nor out, its for EU to decide?
To be fair on the empire lot Martin, resuming attacks on French and Spanish shipping would probably be a better negotiating tactic than what we've been up to so far. 😀
At this rate there’s going to be no one left to hand letters to the 1922 comittee
None of them are resigning as MP's, just their posts within the Government. Their salaries and pensions are safe, it's just political grandstanding.
View it cynically as minor players in Government seizing an opportunity to get headlines and position themselves for higher profile posts under a future leadership/further reshuffle aimed at appeasing the naysayers.
Totally agree. There is nothing brave or principled here. Just middle management gambling on a new boss.
We truly get the politicians we deserve.
To be fair on the empire lot Martin, resuming attacks on French and Spanish shipping would probably be a better negotiating tactic than what we’ve been up to so far
Bad news, Sir Francis Drake is unavailable to lead Brexit negotiations due to 'family reasons'.
Anyone who wants to join a foray to Cadiz should assemble in Plymouth tomorrow at 8am. Bring your own petrol bombs.
Yep they promised us Sovereignity the Unicorn
We got Vassalage the Donkey
Theyve got nothing better to offer, so they just quit
So it’s going to be a no deal brexit with a hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic. Either that or another referendum. I can’t see any other real alternatives.
another junior minister has jumped
Rumours that Penny Mourdant is next.
Andrea Leadsome and Chris Grayling will consider their position once they have finished reading the draft agreement.
It might take a while though as they need to find someone to explain some of the bigger words
Raab is a ****. He knew what the job was when he agreed to be Brexit Secretary, he knew what every word of the 585 pages said (although i suspect he doesn't understand what some of those words mean).
IMO, to quit now is a gross dereliction of duty. He may dress it up behind a faux ideology (as they all do), but it's nothing more than a calculated self-serving maneuver.
Do they still shoot soldiers for abandoning their post? Cowardice in the face of the enemy! Don't the Gammons still think that way? It's odd how perceptions differ. He's probably a hero to the arch-leavers, I just think he's pathetic.
and another junior gone
I've deliberately avoided this thread, and Brexit news in general, but, as I understand it right now we're stuffed aren't we? WTO deal is out due to Russia, Canada++ is off due to Ireland, Chequers is off due to The Government, Remain is off due to gammon.
So we options are, upset the gammon and Remain or become the only country in the world without a trading deal with anyone? And remind me why is this decision is so hard?
Related, don't get me started on not delivering the Brexit we voted for, we voted to leave, nothing more and nothing less...
and another junior gone
Ah, Suella Braverman...
educated at the Sorbonne, but why should your kids have those opportunities?
Can someone remind me what the DUP actually want to happen with their border with the Republic and the one with the rest of the UK?