teamhurtmore - Member
Democracy is fuelled by lies - remember the Scottish referendum?
It's amazing how immune you are to your own bullshit.
Only way to guarantee EU membership, anyone? 😆
Still at least no one is suggesting that these fools should be in charge of more of our lives - imagine that?!?
I'm still waiting on you explaining how your anarchist utopia will work in practice? 😉 😆
With specifics please.
All the benefits (except one of the key ones, because of foreigner blaming swing voters) with non of the commitments (apart from the one that hasn't been ruled out, ie financial contributions of some kind).
Exactly the same as May and Davies et al.
And, no, it doesn't make sense.
And, no, not supported by their MPs, members, or voters.
You'll forgive me for tittering and trying not to spill my coffee Molgrips, I won't be a prick and remind you of all the names you called me on the iDave threads. 😛
As for sensible debate, that is soemthing Brexit is devoid of, in the real world or on STW. This thread is an accurate reflection of how the two camps behave in the real world. Johnson liar extraordinary and Farage xenophobe when he is'nt being plain racist for the Brixit camp - the rational, realistic, pragmatic and people with something to lose in the Remain camp.
Strip away the noise and both parties are calling for a bespoke deal. We all know that there are inherent contradictions in the positions of both side, hence the need for negotiation and compromise - and a lengthy transition
Starker was clear on the objectives he wants which is why he/they were PO with their colleagues last night.
Morning Joe! I am not advocating anarchy merely less state involvement not more.
And, no, it doesn't make sense.
😆
Quite!
minarchist utopia then! 😉
I'm still struggling to see how less regulation, you know the type that cause the financial cr...the great robbery, in the first place, will help matters.
Not really advocating that either. Next?
Don't forget the heavy hand of the state and its institutions in the GFC. Bill telling banks tokens to those who could not afford to pay the loans back. Remember ?!?
Jam is entitled to his opinion whether or not you like it
He is indeed. What he is not entitled to do is to pretend that his "opinion" is based on fact.
You'll forgive me for tittering and trying not to spill my coffee Molgrips, I won't be a prick and remind you of all the names you called me on the iDave threads.
I made the distinction between criticising your posts and abusing you. There is a clear difference - to me anyway.
And I accept that I could have been wrong though, and I would not try to justify it if so 🙂
What he is not entitled to do is to pretend that his "opinion" is based on fact.
Well, the concept of 'fact' is actually quite fluid, but that aside - no-one should abuse him for it. Criticise his logic, yes, but not abuse him.
Aye, that's the de-regulation part. Quite aware that states were complicit in the scam.teamhurtmore - Member
Not really advocating that either. Next?Don't forget the heavy hand of the state and its institutions in the GFC. Bill telling banks tokens to those who could not afford to pay the loans back. Remember ?!?
He is indeed. What he is not entitled to do is to pretend that his "opinion" is based on fact.
This.
To argue otherwise makes you complicit in his lies & as dubious a character.
Sorry, I have no time for liers & those who deliberately distort reality to steve there own nefarious aims.
Call those out who do.
I am not advocating anarchy merely less state involvement not more.
I've recently seen a tower block burn over that.
Indeed the problem is we had a world with less regulation and it led to the dark satanic mills where we actually had to legislate to reduce child labour hours to a mere 12 hours a day [ excluding breaks]
Whilst we can all agree that in some areas there is too much interference the problem is the unregulated market seeks out the lowest cost with the greatest profit with , literally, the costs being lives.
Unfortunately it is what we have to do to control those who put money before peoples lives
Some of it may be intrusive but the alternative is far far worse.
He is indeed. What he is not entitled to do is to pretend that his "opinion" is based on fact.
I dunno, he suppose he's entitled to do both of those things. Just as we're entitled to refute those claims with pesky things like evidence.
Speaking of which,
Actually so far Brexit has not been a problem.
I'll just leave this here:
http://uk.businessinsider.com/uk-economy-q1-gdp-third-estimate-brexit-2017-6
[i]"Britain [is] the worst performing major economy on earth right now."[/i]
Assuming Greece etc are on earth, that's worse than Greece etc.
molgrips - Member
Edukator - Reformed Troll
You'll forgive me for tittering and trying not to spill my coffee Molgrips, I won't be a prick and remind you of all the names you called me on the iDave threads.
I made the distinction between criticising your posts and abusing you. There is a clear difference - to me anyway.
😆 So funny ...
I don't think Cougar read the actual report :0(
Looks like LePen is in a bit of hot water...
I dunno, he suppose he's entitled to do both of those things. Just as we're entitled to refute those claims with pesky things like evidence.
If you want, but after we've done that, and he continues ... errr ... fibbing, we're entitled to stop treating him like a serious commentator, and more like an object of ridicule.
Do you not know where the line is between dismissing someone's opinions and abusing the person?
[b] we have folk who do, so use the report post button and stop wasting forum time with this[/b]
some of what is said to him on here is rude
Unfortunately its often an accurate description of what he does on here so let the mods decide.
Do you not know where the line is between dismissing someone's opinions and abusing the person?
I know where I think it is. Perhaps that since facts for you are a fluid concept you have another idea?
Fighty fighty.
Returning slightly to topic, I think Labour want the following - keep the Leave-voter portion of their traditional vote under the illusion Britain is going to leave the EU so a short-notice GE is winnable until the realisation that Brexit is and always was never a realistic possibility in any meaningful way hoves fully into mainstream view and they can then be the party to formally consign the whole idiotic idea to the dustbin of history to the relief of everyone bar the hardcore Tory eye-swivellers, the right-wing press and the Spitfire-and-crumpets nostalgists who, by that point, will represent nothing other than their own naked self interest and far-fetched daydreams.
The leadership can endorse Brexit to respect democracy, and backbenchers representing remain constituencies can rebel to stay with their conscience or appease their constituents. Not a bad strategy I'd have thought. With both main parties for Brexit and the only serious remain party struggling to hold onto that accolade, it seems to work.
2tyred - I think you're probably right that Labour want to avoid needlessly alienating the Brexiters, especially with pointless grandstanding like Chuka Umuna's latest narcissistic display.
what, a man of principle standing up for what he (you and I) believes in, from the backbenches and against leadership intent on harming the UK economy - and you criticise him for that!?!? What an odd world....
I think this article pretty much sums up the somewhat ambiguous stance by The Labour Party on Brexit.
Assuming Greece etc are on earth, that's worse than Greece etc.
Is Greece considered a major economy? (Economics is, well, I know squat about it TBH.)
I don't think Cougar read the actual report :0(
What did I miss (see above)?
Is this any better?
http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-economy-idUKKBN19L0XG
I'm with Gary Lineker here - http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/gary-lineker-describes-feeling-politically-homeless-as-jeremy-corbyn-sacks-soft-brexit-backers/ar-BBDsW6N?li=AAmiR2Z&ocid=spartandhp
But even if you don't agree, the suggestion that he could lead a new party called centre forward is pretty good!
The article that C linked is rather sensational. - the UK still grew by 2% YoY
Nevertheless the underlying message is valid - the U.K. Economy is slowing, real wages are stagnant, people are still heavily in debt and inflation has risen (see real wages). Puts the BoE in a v tricky position re IRs
Brexit merely makes a bad situation worse
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-40461551 ]Further reading on poor Marine's latest travails.[/url]
amazing how many of the racist right wing anti EU lot used MEP as a route to political success and then fiddled the fees to fund their party
I am sure this is all the fault of the corrupt EU
Be fair, Farage et al know the EU is corrupt, they have proof the EU is corrupt, precisely because of the way his party and his far right brethren mis-used funds.
Looks like May has thrown her toys out of her pram and we are going to suffer for it.
Everything is still being negotiated so not sure why everything is looking into their own crystal ball ... 😛
Running commentaries ... ? 😆
Saw that reported on the BBC
I think it points to Davis' being waaay out of his depth as much as anything
He did hint a while back that he was planning to try and keep the very beneficial & prestigious institutions like eba, ema, etc
Maybot doesnt do logic it seems
And your average brexie pretty clueless about that sort of detail
@mrmo- Mmmmm, James Chapman said.. please tell me more about the great James Chapman. You delusional brexies will believe anyone 😉
Mmmmm, James Chapman said.. please tell me more about the great James Chapman.
Point made, we know what Brexies think of 'experts' its much easier to get your opinions from the express etc
I think this article pretty much sums up the somewhat ambiguous stance by The Labour Party on Brexit.
it is plainly obvious that Corbyn wants a hard brexit - he lapped up article 50 as soon as it was possible.
If he had wanted a soft brexit, or even a reversal of brexit, then he could have campaigned on it and would have easily got into number 10 - lots of his MPs would have been behind him, lots of the youth vote that were also enthused by the tuition fee cancellaton, and lots of the original brexit voters than have since figured out that they were being coerced with lies.
bleating about it going against the original democratic vote for brexit is BS as it was so close and there were so many untruths said in it.
Point made, we know what Brexies think of 'experts' its much easier to get your opinions from the express etc
😆 Struggling a bit there arncha 😆 You started so well with 'point made' then seemed to talk a load of shite like only a delusional brexie can.
I'm sorry but it's you quoting a daily mail/Georgie Osbourne chum/PR man.
Is he actually one of the experts? I'm not surprised people have had enough of them if so :o)
Turnerguy - Yes you're right to say that going against the referendum for democratic reasons was not the reason for Corbyn voting for Article 50, that was because he is a eurosceptic. As the article says, consistently voted and lobbied against the EU throughout his career.
I don't follow your logic that he would have increased Labour's votes if he'd campaigned on a soft brexit or brexit reversal ticket. Where would those votes have come from? Labour increased their votes by 9.5%, the 3 parties campaigning for soft/no brexit lost a combined 4.5% share of the vote, UKIP lost 10.8%. It doesn't take a massive leap of faith to assume that Labour's increased vote share came from former UKIP voters, primarily in the north and midlands. Ok, there were some progressive alliances in London which accounts for the drop in Green/LD votes but not enough to account for a 9.5% increase.
Is he actually one of the experts
I'll listen to the views of someone who's worked for dexu (even an ex DM journo!) especially when it makes sense considering a lot of the stuff Davis said re bodies dependent on ECJ jurisdiction.
The third moste dishonest MP and one of Brexhsit's biggest BSers on Marr now.
Hie did Gove ever get back -- he even smirks as he knowingly lies now. At least he used to keep a straight face. Now he just knows his full of ****
I thought we had to be polite to folk who knowingly BS as that is what you were telling us the other day - or is it we can be rude about everyone but your mate? or is t that its only bad when someone other than you does it?
FWIW i agree with you entirely about Gove but you know Jambys "facts" are just as "flawed" so at least understand why people treat him the same way.
