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I just say again the hysteria over Brexit compared to the lack of noise over austerity I find disconcerting.
Austerity has been a very immediate and damaging political choice to swathes of our country but doesn't seem to come with the same resentment as Brexit on here.
I find that tricky to understand.
Supporting Brexit is one thing, supporting this farce that doesn’t deliver is another
In that guardian article they don't link to the poll and I can't find it on you gov.
Any ideas?
I assume your using the term Hysteria to make it sound like people are exaggerating the problems.
This will be the single most destructive thing that has happened to the UK in a very long time, the impact will make austerity look like a minor cold. The impact already has taken millions and probably billions out of the UK economy, I think at the last point it was more than contributions to the EU in a year.
It's going to impact people for a lifetime, it's removing rights that we have acquired over many years and the architects of the plan seem to have no idea, direction or cohesion at all. It's being played out as a petty shitshow of tory self destruction.
The use of the words mandate and clear will of the people by liars, cheats and some close to criminal charges over the campaign make the whole thing worse. There is no clear mandate for anything and trying to force a deal through that will be bad for everyone against the clear will of the majority of the UK.
The reason this thread keep going is the sheer ineptitude of the UK government and it's deluded fans who seem to get worse every week.
YouGov used a multi-level regression and post-stratification (MRP) technique, polling 26,000 people to build up a statistical model of key demographics, including age, gender, education, race and social class. The theory is that it becomes possible to produce a model for every constituency in the country
That sounds tenuous.
This will be the single most destructive thing that has happened to the UK in a very long time, the impact will make austerity look like a minor cold.
Whilst I agree with your sentiment, unlike the affects of austerity you can't say this with any level of confidence as a) it hasn't happened yet and b) you can't measure it currently.
Really rone?
The findings, which are expected to have a significant impact on the parliamentary battle over Brexit in the coming months, is based on the same modelling methodology that confounded conventional wisdom and correctly predicted Labour’s surprise success in last year’s election.
You can just say you don't want to believe it 😉
Whilst I agree with your sentiment, unlike the affects of austerity you can’t say this with any level of confidence as a) it hasn’t happened yet and b) you can’t measure it currently.
Ah OK, you know what nobody has a ****ing plan, no single member of the team negotiating this seems to have a ****ing clue.
The options that have been put forward all show massive pain for the UK
The impact to the economy so far has been measured and reported widely. The simple maths show a massive amount of cash needs to be spent which far outweighs any savings by leaving and so far nobody has come up with any way the UK economy will grow in the post Brexit world.
If you want to counter the projections lets see some evidence of how it will be OK not just ignoring all the current ones.
I assume your using the term Hysteria to make it sound like people are exaggerating the problems
Well yeah having run my own small business on fumes through several recessions and watched my locality decay - I can speak pretty strongly against neo-libralism in general.
What am I getting at is that until the effects are measured and we're well out of it (whatever form that takes)- how do you know?
The impact to the economy so far has been measured and reported widely. The simple maths show a massive amount of cash needs to be spent which far outweighs any savings by leaving and so far nobody has come up with any way the UK economy will grow in the post Brexit world.
I would like to level that if we implemented modern monetary theory to solve some of our spending problems we would be able to sleep at night.
How do you extrapolate the effects of something that hasn't happened yet versus the general demise of the economy under Tory rule?
People were offered simple answers to complex problems. None of which were the fault of the people being blamed - the EU.
the trouble now is that the enormous whoppers peddled during the campaign are now coming home to roost. Far from supplying answers to the real problem- austerity driven by far right dogma - leaving the EU will turbo-charge those problems... poverty, inequality and division are about to sour, all while Boris, Rees Mogg and their chums make their usual killing out of it.
Whats most depressing is that the leader of the Labour Party is either too terminally dim, or just plain disinterested to do anything to oppose it.
This provides the right with what they’ve always wanted... the chance to dismantle the post-war settlement and pretty much all that is progressive in our society. Something they will gleefully do.
So what happens when everyone realises the true scale of this fraud?
Next March is when the real shitsorm starts
This farce is just a preamble
https://www.theweek.co.uk/93785/how-much-money-has-brexit-cost-the-uk
23rd May 2018 40bn Total
https://www.cer.eu/insights/whats-cost-brexit-so-far
23rd June 2018 23Bn/Year
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/29/britain-bill-brexit-hits-500-million-pounds-a-week
29th September 26bn/year
That is what has been measured, where are your numbers?
What am I getting at is that until the effects are measured and we’re well out of it (whatever form that takes)- how do you know?
So you reckon it's worth a punt?
But the right have been dismantling anything half-decent long term for generations. Think way back to the utilities sell off. That sort of thing has never been an EU issue as I understand it.
We were already going in the wrong direction before 2016.
True but that doesn't change the numbers or the direction being pushed.It's just really a way of confusing the issue there. Do the numbers so far lie or misrepresent things as they are.
Based on the deals looking likely what are the positives?
Do you have any numbers to counter the current forecasts?
So you reckon it’s worth a punt?
I think there are stronger idealogical forces at play that don't meet the same resistance.
For instance you can't blame the recent stabbings on the EU turmoil but you could make a case for austerity and lack of policing , education and general state of the economy.
Rone thinks that people arguing against Brexit don't care about the effects of austerity. He's not alone. Many voted Brexit because Osbourne and Cameron said they shouldn't. Austerity and membership of the EU have successfully been conflated in people's minds… and I'd argue the disengenius leader of the Labour Party has had a hand in this. Lots of my Labour supporting friends have fallen for the "forget about Brexit, let's stand against Austerity instead" line of bullshit that has come straight out if the current Labour leadership team.
Look at who are the biggest fans of small state, low tax, damn the poor economics? How many of them will be happy with Brexit at any cost? Why is that?
Do you have any numbers to counter the current forecasts?
Which forecasts are you looking at?
Absolutely Rone! But they’ve been constrained by EU regulation. Just imagine what this shower of shits are planning to do once they’re freed from that?
Brexit at any cost indeed. They know what an opportunity this presents them with, and they’re rubbing their hands with glee at the prospect! They can turn the clock back 80 years. No welfare state. No NHS
All while the Corbyn Labour Party watches on impotent and disengaged, more worried about what’s going on in Venezuela than Stoke, apparently unaware its about to have every single one of its achievements torched before its very eyes.
And it is actively enabling that?!
Tell you what why don't you pick the most positive one you can find. Unless you have had your head in the sand it's been hard to miss.
Rone thinks that people arguing against Brexit don’t care about the effects of austerity
That would be one way of putting it.
But I would say purely from a media point of view it's a never ending debate which will only be realised when it's done whereas I feel the lack of concern over general Tory policy has become acceptable.
You guys may be one step ahead of me, and that's fine.
Tell you what why don’t you pick the most positive one you can find. Unless you have had your head in the sand it’s been hard to miss.
No need to be disengenous. I would say until things are finalised I don't know.
I'm not a Brexitter.
Until you know exactly what illness you've got, you can't treat it.
But I would say purely from a media point of view it’s a never ending debate which will only be realised when it’s done
Nope that assumes that people and public opinion make no difference in these things. There is a lot to fight for and what you are seeing is people fighting for it. This is not something you can sort out by voting them out at the election it will take something bigger than that.
If you want to sit back and let all those clever people in government sort it out for you then that is up to you. Many others don't want to do that.
No need to be disengenous. I would say until things are finalised I don’t know.
TBH all you have done so far is dispute every stat or projection but can't say why apart from "It's the future we can't predict that" people do all the time, it's why I suggested you bring some numbers to the table. We are yet to find anyone credible who has a positive outlook for brexit. It's doesn't take a genius to see all the negatives that are coming.
Binners 0- I still do not know what you want corbyn toi do.
I am disappointed in him but simply do not see what you do
so please should he:
come out for a second vote and leave himself open to attack from the press? ( I think he should)
Accept the "will of the people" which I remind you again Burnham your man for the leadership did and still does IIRC
Jesus Christ TJ! Stop fighting last years battles! Or last decades!
Youre disappointed in him? Bless.
That’s the bloody problem with you Momentum/Corbynistas lot! Or one of the many! You can’t see what’s going on in front of your bloody eyes. You’re too busy banging on about Burnham/Blairites or whatever in your paranoid delusional bunkers! The People’s Front of Judea. What have the Romans ever done for us?
This is right wing coup FFS!!!! One Corbyn is acquiescing in!
He needs to grow a pair, * the press, who all hate him anyway, and say that this is a disaster that must be stopped
Not that he will, of course, because he’s always wanted this. Why? Because he’s totally *ing clueless, that’s why?
He thinks he’s going to establish a socialist Utopia, the deluded half wit. What he’s actually helping establish is a neoliberal wet dream! A corporatist tax haven, sweatshop where workers rights will be torn up in front of them!!
The left need to bloody wake up!! And fast!
I’m not going to hold my breath!
So you want Corbyn to come out for stopping brexit and ignoring the vote? Immediate huge split in the party then as so many labour MPS take the Burnham line and there is a hard core of rabid outers as well.
The real problem I see in labourt is the total lack of talent and leadership anywhere. Its not as if there is an inspirational leader and all the folk who stood for the leadership " respect the will of the people"
I still would like you to say what you think he should do - not platitudes nor attacking me for questioning you but actually say what you think his stance should be.
Edit - I am neither a corbynista nor a momentum follower. The labour party lost me as a supporter a decade ago
He needs to grow a pair, * the press, who all hate him anyway, and say that this is a disaster that must be stopped
I'm really confused. First off I actually agree in principle with the above. Ultimately I hope the labour party can manoeuvre itself into a position where it can oppose brexit, either through a second vote or just cancelling it. Trouble is electoral reality gets in the way. If they oppose it, they lose the next election. It's as simple as that.
Hence my confusion. Your persistent - and misplaced IMO - criticism of Corbyn is that he's a naive idealist (6th form common room, Judean People's Front etc) who is not interesting in winning power, yet on the subject of brexit he and the rest of the shadow cabinet are pursuing an entirely pragmatic strategy in an effort to shore up their electoral prospects in the face of a currently unsolvable problem where labour members and MPs oppose brexit, but the voters support it. They are the only party IMO who have navigated the brexit cluster* without imploding (only just mind you!), so why would you want to threaten that? The time will come where they have to declare which side of the fence they're on, but now is not it. Time may be short but they can afford to wait, and hope that voters come round to a position which aligns with that of the party.
Trouble is electoral reality gets in the way. If they oppose it, they lose the next election. It’s as simple as that.
Brexit is more damaging than who wins or loss the next election, it will damage the country for generations. Any politician who rally cared about the country and it;s people would do the right thing and oppose brexit despite what effect that might have on their political career (and lets face it, it would probably now do more good than harm anyway).
Sorry if that came across as a personal attack Uncle Jezza. Wasn’t meant as one. You know I love you!
it just infuriates me that the left can’t see that they’re being led by a narcissistic charlatan, who through his misguided thinking (there’s a very good reason he was treated as a quirky irrelevance for his entire parliamentary career) is enabling a permanent, irreversible takeover of our legislature by the far right. A LABOUR leader is facilitating this. Stop and think about that for a minute. The Labour Party is facilitating this, because it’s now his personal fiefdom.
Corbyn will be judged by history as the man who allowed all the achievements of the Labour Party to be torched. What a legacy?
He’s an idiot! A deluded ego-fuelled, narcissistic half-wit. And just as much a product of populism as Trump. And basking in just the same self-satisfied glow. Though will little reason. Despite what his disciples would have you believe, it’s not actually like he won an actual election
We’re all going to be totally ****ed come next March. Why? Because of a number of shysters serving their own agendas. But he’ll have to shoulder a large percentage of that blame.
Something I doubt he’ll treat any more seriously than Cameron. He may but a Yurt instead of a boutique Shepherds Hut to write his memoirs in, but ultimately that’s what he’ll predictably do, and they’re contribution to this disaster will be just the same. And they’ll both pay the same price for it ie: none.
We’re the ones who’ll be doing that. For decades
Any politician who rally cared about the country and it;s people would do the right thing and oppose brexit despite what effect that might have on their political career
So now the criticism of Corbyn is that he should abandon any hope of governing so that he can pursue an ideological position on brexit? How times change!
Corbyn will be judged by history as the man who allowed all the achievements of the Labour Party to be torched.
I'm even more confused. So the best way of protecting labour's legacy is to not win power? Am I missing something here?
I'm a life long Labour voter.
I will continue to be.... But I will never forgive Corbyn for not truly opposing leaving the EU in the referendum.
I honestly think that if he had really got behind the Remain campaign we simply wouldn't even be in this **** storm in the first place.
What he’s doing goes against every principle of the Labour Party. And will destroy its entire legacy. Simple as that.
For someone so supposedly principled (and I don’t buy that shit for a minute) he comes across as ‘intensely relaxed’ (to use the Mandleson parleance) about that
And I totally agree that if he’d have actually bothered to turn up during the referendum we wouldn’t be in this mess. But he always wanted Brexit anyway....
I’ve voted labour in every single election, but Corbyn, and his whole Islington Cabal absolutely apall me.
And it absolutely mystifies me that there are people who can’t see through them and how their student level placard-waving nonsense is damaging the very people they’re supposedly meant to represent
people who can’t see through them and how their student level placard-waving nonsense
It's not that I can't see through it, I just don't think the placard waving nonsense really exists. All I see is politicians being politicians, who are trying to win an election in the face of extremely difficult electoral dynamics, so that they can implement their clearly stated policies. Take away all the hyperbole and tabloid nonsense and that's all that's left. In the end the real drivers of where we end up with brexit will not be people like Corbyn or JRM, but the usual mix of vested establishment interests and lesserly public opinion expressed through the ballot box.
Corbyn does genuinely not like the EU though. I don't agree with him but I see where he's coming from.
Binners it may be that Corbyn is playing a long game, allowing lots of rope and there's going to be a spectacular hanging of the right-wing. It may allow a reset back to the post-war settlement. On the other hand he may be an incompetent eejit but I have no easy way of judging as commentary and analysis is either against him or rabidly against him in the press/media.
We as a country have drifted too far rightwards in the last 40 years IMHO. It appals me the damage done to community cohesion to keep us isolated and ineffective.
And it absolutely mystifies me that there are people who can’t see through them and how their student level placard-waving nonsense is damaging the very people they’re supposedly meant to represent
It mystifies me that someone who claims to care so much isn't even a party member. It mystifies me that, when faced with a continually worsening electoral performance since 2001, someone would prescribe more of the same.
Corbyn is complicit in this mess... Him tripple whipping abstentions on key commons votes.. hypocrisy personified.
That's worse than the Conservatives .. At least the Conservatives are honest about raping our countries future.
Corbyn is complicit in this mess
Everyone is complicit in this mess. Including we the voters. Some however want to hang this purely on Corbyn though, which is daft. He's a bit-part player at most. Very good at being a scapegoat though, I'll give him that.
He’s a bit-part player
He's the leader of the opposition, and potentially the next prime minister..
I'm not seeing any leadership or opposition.
He's a joke and a hypocrite.
I’m not seeing any leadership or opposition.
Compared to the other side where we see no leadership and lots of opposition 😉
Compared to the other side where we see no leadership and lots of opposition
Exactly. Corbyns hypocrisy is such that he may as well sign up to the Conservative party ... He's essentially enabled the Conservatives by way of using the 3 line whip against his party on numerous occasions.
A 'man' who has a prolific history of voting against his own parties whip.
Yep so time to get over that and keep mounting the pressure through things like the peoples vote
Meanwhile the European Court of Justice gets to decide
Don't think it will make much difference though, it looks like Brexit come hell or high water, but if it does you can thank Scotland. 🙂
Well I wonder how hard they challenged it, would have been bad to have not opposed it but losing with a fight is acceptable
Ransos - do me a favour, please? Do us all a favour, for the love of god?!
Can you please stop asking why I haven’t joined the three quid trots, like yourself, to try and change the party? How many times now?
you must be bored with it by now? Christ knows I am.
Inadvertently you’re highlighting exactly the problem with Labour under Corbyn. According to you lot we’re all meant to join the movement, wave some placards and protest against all the injustice in the world. Down with this kind of thing. Whatever.
Brilliant! ! I’m 48 years old. Been there, done that 20 years ago. my political opinions were formed 30 odd years ago when the school bus took me past Parkside Colliery every day during the miners strike and I realised how ****ed up our society is
Nowadays I like my democracy to involve voting for the party i’ve Voted for all my life that isn’t led by a clueless half-wit
You should try it after you’ve done your A levels... is that ok comrade?
Binding
It's cool. Politics gets folk going 🙂
Can you please stop asking why I haven’t joined the three quid trots, like yourself, to try and change the party? How many times now?
You're asking me to change the record? You couldn't be more hypocritical if you tried.
The rest of your post is very wide of the mark, which is no surprise from someone so fond of his own voice.
So, I'll leave you to self-proclaiming your working class credentials from the mean streets of Ramsbottom, while doing sweet FA about the problems as you see them.
Inadvertently you’re highlighting exactly the problem with Labour under Corbyn. According to you lot we’re all meant to join the movement, wave some placards and protest against all the injustice in the world. Down with this kind of thing. Whatever.
Well your either in the tent pissing out or....
Don't like the direction of the Labour party find a way to change it, or just be a bit apathetic and whinge from the sidelines. If your so passionate against corbyn then what are you going to do about it.
If your so passionate against corbyn then what are you going to do about it.
Tricky one: if the prosecco has run out then I reckon it'll be a visit to the chocolate cafe.
What guacamole?
Oh how startlingly unpredictable? A cheap dig that I now live in a relativelynice suburb of north Manchester. (Oh... the glamour!) Something you’ve only mentioned about 12,000 times before. I got here by all manner of less salubrious places
The problem with you half-wits is that you can’t ecen recognise people who are your natural allies, preferring to berate and belittle them instead because apparently we’re not revolutionary enough to warrent being part of your ‘movement’ and your glorious revolution
Good luck trying to get Your messiah elected with that attitude
The problem with you half-wits is that you can’t ecen recognise people who are your natural allies, preferring to berate and belittle them instead because apparently we’re not revolutionary enough to warrent being part of your ‘movement’ and your glorious revolution
Yep, what you should definitely do is convince people by calling them half-wits. The irony being that Corbyn leads the Labour party because of arrogant bell ends like you, who are too dim realize it.
But perhaps I'm being unfair: the organic cheesemonger must be closed by now, so it's no wonder you're upset.
Good luck trying to get Your messiah elected with that attitude
Binners the point is if you are as you say a Labour man and want the party to represent you, not being a member and not getting involved is giving up. Direct one on three of your rants at the local Labour party and see where it goes. Not taking part doesn't help you, that is the point.
Have you been to a Momentum meeting? I have. They spent 20 minutes ‘debating’ how they were going to prevent MI5 assassinating Jeremy.
Thats what passes for political discourse in those circles. Get your tinfoil helmet on , hide under the table and brace yourself for permanent Tory government
oh... Ransos .. the mousetrap is open til twelve, so if i’m Quick I can still get a nice Brie
Your problem, binners is that you pretty much alienate everyone. When was the last time you aligned yourself with another poster rather than tried to offend them?
I'm a life long Labour supporter, have no great loyalty to Corbyn, although I like McDonnel through my trade union roots and am a remainer. Calling people on your side half-wits isn't a bright place to go.
Wine has been taken.
Thats what passes for political discourse in those circles. Get your tinfoil helmet on , hide under the table and brace yourself for permanent Tory government
Nothing to be done then. Not that you're all mouth and no trousers.
Wine has been taken here too. I apologise for the half-wit comment. Out of order. Sorry.
Wine? Oh how the bourgeois live these days.....
I only dip into this thread occasionally as thinking of Brexit too much genuinely ends up "upsetting"me.
Looking at the posts on the last couple of pages I think I can see why all parties can get so riled up about Brexit and surrounding issues.
Its a paradox within an enigma covered deep in a pile of steaming s***.
Like I say, it upsets me. 😉
I am whole square behind binners. I was a life long Labour supporter until Labour lost the ability to stand up for hard pressed workers in Scotland. Corbyn's stance on the EU I am sure would be a disgrace if I fully understood what it was. Corbyn suffers from too much woolly idealism that ultimately means nothing! Labour really don't need a wet leader at the minute. This is a Tory government that should be getting mauled, whilst Corbyn is mired in dealing with anti-semitism rows. Theresa May must be thankful that the bearded one is her nemesis right now. If he can't beat a minority government propped up by a bunch of Ulster 'Just say NEVER' creationists' then there is really no hope. Move over Santa and as per your mail, give Margo from Macclesfield a go!!
Can I just ask, all those Blair haters and Corbynistas , what do you think Alastair Campbell would be doing with this Tory dissaray? He’d have been making ****ing mincemeat of them, that’s what!
Instead.... nothing. Absolutely nothing! Politically clueless. The story of Corbyns career.
Any Opposition worthy of the name would have this lot out on the ropes by now. It’s an open goal.
mike, I normally like your posts, however what is a photo of what looks like a posh fish and chips with tartare sauce and what I assume is mushy peas supposed to achieve, other that being a cheap dig?
here, here to your last post binners
bravo scotroutes
I think you're all being a bit hard on Corbyn. There's barely a decent bit of legislation that he's not prepared to whip his MPs into abstaining on.
What we need....
What we’ve got
I saw a video today of a cat being bossed by a rat!!
Part of the problem, as far as i see it, is that we are looking at different things from different angles.
Labour members aren't the same thing as Labour voters, and neither is the same thing as the general electorate. The same is true of our Conservative brethren.
Party Members exude a fervency that simply does not exist in the general body politic.
There is a rational argument to be made that to 'be the change you want to see' you must first make yourself electable, and this will always require compromise.
One of the most inexcusable failures of our first Coalition Government was that it put the electorate off the idea of coalition Governments per se. One would argue that this was actually its biggest failure, and was a huge contributory factor to our subsequent woes.
The overiding inexcusable failure of our first Coalition Government was thus the shameful inclusion of this damned Referendum promise to make another coalition less likely.
We need more consensus, more compromise, more coalition, not less.
"One of the most inexcusable failures of our first Coalition Government was that it put the electorate off the idea of coalition Governments per se. One would argue that this was actually its biggest failure, and was a huge contributory factor to our subsequent woes."
Lead to that amazing bit where the Tories, who'd been kept in power by a coalition and were about to enter another one, said that coalitions were a terrible idea and you had to avoid them at all costs.
The Lib Dems were stymied by being palmed off with a referendum with a question on AV - probably thinking that they could sell it as a snowball towards actual proportional representation. It was not the last time they would be stitched up.
If we were to be honest with ourselves, and had a voting system that supported our honesty, we would have Coalition Governments from this day forth.
FPTP is an anachronistic nonsense - even though it sometimes keeps the Tory hounds leashed.
Any Opposition worthy of the name would have this lot out on the ropes by now. It’s an open goal.
If if you are the leader of the opposition and have always wanted a hard leave from the EU and then a massive crash to give you an excuse to go all five year plan on the Uk why speak up?
the Tory party is destroying itself internally and with the voters while delivering Corbyns dream.
The fact there is no option for voters other than a leave party is a failing. Also just because the party in power is doing something doesn’t mean the opposition disagrees with it.
all there is now is increased disenfranchisement rather than bribing the voters together
Corbyn suffers from too much woolly idealism
Christ, how often do I have to say it? Corbyn’s, and labour’s policy on Brexit is anything but idealist. It’s the very opposite. They’re triangulating their position for maximum electoral benefit, whilst keeping everyone guessing on what they actually believe. It straight out of the Blair/Clinton playbook.
I have no doubt Corbyn personally is ideologically against the EU. But as with his beliefs on nuclear weapons and nato, he’s putting them aside because the party doesn’t support them. If he were what you lot claim he is, he’d be imposing those beliefs on policy. Yet he isn’t because he realises he’d be finished if he did.
Labour current position;
https://labour.org.uk/manifesto/negotiating-brexit/
A Labour government will end the uncertainty for our farmers and food producers by securing continued EU market access allowing British farmers and food producers to continue to sell their products on the Continent.
Freedom of movement will end when we leave the European Union.
Looks like it's been recently updated but still wants freedom for goods but not people. EU have already said "ez, ne, no, ingen, neniu, non, óchi, níl aon, nē, nie, nu, keine".
Their position doesn't work therefore can only be seen as idealistic (and as a Labour voter I really wish it did).
But, RED unicorns comrade!
daz: Corbyn suffers from too much woolly idealism
Christ, how often do I have to say it?
Many more times, it would seem. The suspicion that Corbyn, McDonnell and what appears to be the party they actually belong to - Momentum - are entryists, manipulators and adherents to the ineffectual left-wing protest politics and Communist/Socialist failed projects of the past and present.
Perhaps it’s your actual argument, rather than the way you couch it, that is failing.
mike, I normally like your posts, however what is a photo of what looks like a posh fish and chips with tartare sauce and what I assume is mushy peas supposed to achieve, other that being a cheap dig?
It was probably to subtle a joke back to the days of strong Labour MP's like Mandy, he would know what to do with this lot
Perhaps it’s your actual argument
More than happy to argue the case if people want to present anything beyond a Daily Mail editorial of what Corbyn and the labour party stand for. As it is all we have is the same old hackneyed cliches about trots, marxists, sixth formers etc.
Well there you are. Most look at his historical opinions and stances and decide that he still has these, but doesn’t give voice to them in the same way, because that would confound his current pitch of Mr Reasonable. Given that his immediate circle and his ‘Momentum’ support group are in favour of a return to state control of industry and support for the likes Maduro et al. and all the usual hodge-lodge of leftist ‘solutions’, his pretended party, Labour, will never achieve power in the U.K.
Given that his immediate circle and his ‘Momentum’ support group are in favour of a return to state control of industry and support for the likes Maduro et al. and all the usual hodge-lodge of leftist ‘solutions’, his pretended party, Labour, will never achieve power in the U.K.
Feel free to cite the relevant policies that support your claim: I'm only aware of renationalised rail, something that has popular support.