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[Closed] EU Referendum - are you in or out?

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I am absolutely appalled by the DUP. They won't stand for any difference in trade requirements across the Irish sea, but are quite happy for a different approach to same sex marriage and what decisions a woman can make about her own body.

They supported Brexit from the beginning and get what they deserve in my book. What did they expect? Also, they seem more willing to have extra checks at a beefed up border with ROI which shows the lack of sanctity of the Good Friday Agreement.

May is in a very week position, but she should cut them loose.I am sure Foster has said that a deal which sees border checks in the Irish sea is unpalatable and could spark the breakup of the UK. If a deal May can get is stifled by this small band of idiots she certainly risks greater chance of a break up of the UK from a different flank.


 
Posted : 14/10/2018 11:28 am
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May is in a very week position, but she should cut them loose.I am sure Foster has said that a deal which sees border checks in the Irish sea is unpalatable and could spark the breakup of the UK. If a deal May can get is stifled by this small band of idiots she certainly risks greater chance of a break up of the UK from a different flank.

This.

I would rather leave the Protestant Northern Irish to the Catholics and RO and keep the Scots.. Cut 'em adrift I say.....


 
Posted : 14/10/2018 11:34 am
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May is in a very week position, but she should cut them loose.

And with the being the Government. She is not PM without them.

Today good old DD called for a revolt over her Brexit proposal, she doesn't even have control of her own party now. It's a huge mess and I at this point the only way out is to force her out.


 
Posted : 14/10/2018 11:37 am
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If she cuts them loose then the government collapses. Then what happens? Chaos! Absolute chaos like we've probably never witnessed in this country. Finding ourselves with no government at the most critical point in this countries history since the second world war?

And then what?

The optimists like to think that a Corbyn government would be elected and we'd then have a more sensible approach to Brexit, but if the last ten years history has taught us anything, its that in times of crisis people are looking to the right, not the left for answers.

Unbelievable though it seems, I can only see what emerges out of the smouldering wreckage of this present administration (such as it is) would be even worse!

I'm going to dig a big bunker and start stockpiling spam and hend grenades


 
Posted : 14/10/2018 1:46 pm
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but if the last ten years history has taught us anything, its that in times of crisis people are looking to the right, not the left for answers.

Yeah, how is that austerity stuff going...


 
Posted : 14/10/2018 2:13 pm
 dazh
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And then what?

Not much really. Things carry on, people go to work, kids go to school, we drink booze at the weekend. There are many instances in other countries where there has been no functioning government and the world didn't fall in. Belgium went 589 days without a government. Northern Ireland has gone longer. Seems to me politics in this country, at least on the tory side, has become a proxy for upper class men to exercise their public school feuds. We can probably do without it.

Also if we had no government then brexit would almost certainly have to be delayed or suspended. Even if a new govt was to be elected, assuming it was different to the current one, they would want time to review and restructure everything. For instance if labour came in, they'd probably want another year at least to negotiate on their terms.


 
Posted : 14/10/2018 2:20 pm
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Yeah, how is that austerity stuff going…

Nobody said the right solves the issues, just that is who people perceive as being able to make tough calls on things like the economy.

See also the belief that one side spends more than the other etc. it's not rational.


 
Posted : 14/10/2018 2:24 pm
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Doesn't make it less true Kerley, look at America, the Philippines,  Brazil etc - then look at history - Zog, Engelbert Dollfuss, Kurt Schuschnigg, Heydar Aliyev, Ilham Aliyev, Aleksandar Tsankov ,Kimon Georgiev, Boris III, Kiril, Ante Pavelić, Nikos Sampson, Konstantin Päts, Philippe Pétain, Theodoros Pangalos, Ioannis Metaxas, Georgios Tsolakoglou, Konstantinos Logothetopoulos, Ioannis Rallis, Georgios Papadopoulos, Miklós Horthy, Ferenc Szálasi, Benito Mussolini, Joaquim Pimenta de Castro, Sidónio Pais, Óscar Carmona, António de Oliveira, Salazar, Marcelo Caetano, Francisco Franco and the one and only - biggest **** of all time, not to be bettered - Adolf Hitler.


 
Posted : 14/10/2018 2:27 pm
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Yeah, how is that austerity stuff going…

Its been the disaster that those of us with anything between their ears always knew it would be.

But we all knew Brexit would be a disaster too. And yet people still voted for it. And would probably do so again.

What makes you think that all of a sudden, common sense would prevail this time around? I have zero confidence in that happening. They'll probably elect Rees Mogg as PM. The ****ing morons!

On Radio 4 at the moment they're interviewing Euro MP's about Brexit. Evan Davies asked the following question

"Theres a perception that Brussells is punishing the UK for voting Brexit?"

The answer from a Dutch MP:

"Why would we bother to do that? The UK is making a good enough job of punishing itself"

They're obviously surveying whats happening here with total incredulity. And who can blame them. But there has been a possitive for the EU. All those fringe parties in Europe who were also on about leaving the EU have had to STFU in the wake of this shambles. Theres nobody going to vote for that any more.


 
Posted : 14/10/2018 2:32 pm
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The damage you’ve done to this country should rest squarely on your shoulders

Actually not sure this is true. After the vote, we could have had years of public debate, investigation, planning and theorising. We all could have learned a lot more about the EU and what we want from it Vs what we get. We could have then put forward several proposals and had an informed vote.

Instead, the idiots in power pulled us all off a cliff with no idea what was at the bottom. But the key thing is they are government, they should be the ones who know how to run a country.


 
Posted : 14/10/2018 2:40 pm
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Yeah, how is that austerity stuff going…

Very nicely for those ideological types who are dreaming of a hamstrung state which wont get in their way.


 
Posted : 14/10/2018 3:53 pm
 kilo
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Doesn’t make it less true Kerley, look at America, the Philippines, Brazil etc – then look at history – Zog, Engelbert Dollfuss, Kurt Schuschnigg, Heydar Aliyev, Ilham Aliyev, Aleksandar Tsankov ,Kimon Georgiev, Boris III, Kiril, Ante Pavelić, Nikos Sampson, Konstantin Päts, Philippe Pétain, Theodoros Pangalos, Ioannis Metaxas, Georgios Tsolakoglou, Konstantinos Logothetopoulos, Ioannis Rallis, Georgios Papadopoulos, Miklós Horthy, Ferenc Szálasi, Benito Mussolini, Joaquim Pimenta de Castro, Sidónio Pais, Óscar Carmona, António de Oliveira, Salazar, Marcelo Caetano, Francisco Franco and the one and only – biggest **** of all time, not to be bettered – Adolf Hitler.

Petain was a stooge following a fascist invasion not the choice of the people, I'm not sure you can argue that Franco was the choice of the people in times of strife being the leader of a military coup. I'm going to take a gues that plenty more of th jams you've quoted aren't the choice of the people looking for hope but dictators and stooges


 
Posted : 14/10/2018 4:07 pm
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Even if a new govt was to be elected, assuming it was different to the current one, they would want time to review and restructure everything. For instance if labour came in, they’d probably want another year at least to negotiate on their terms.

Its not the EUs fault that Parliament decided to allow one small group to be in charge of the negotiations. The fact Labour have not insisted they should be on the team does not mean they get a reset...

We are not only doing a f stupid thing but we are doing it in a f stupid manner


 
Posted : 14/10/2018 5:35 pm
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Petain was a stooge following a fascist invasion not the choice of the people, I’m not sure you can argue that Franco was the choice of the people in times of strife being the leader of a military coup. I’m going to take a gues that plenty more of th jams you’ve quoted aren’t the choice of the people looking for hope but dictators and stooges

True....

They usually have some kind of popular legitimacy though, even those who are the best at being dictatory don't last long once they lose popular support or ruling class support.

Humans have a long history of wanting and being lead my strongmen, the periods in which which thoughtful men have led people are notably fewer.


 
Posted : 14/10/2018 5:40 pm
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There's a good thread on Petains support here  https://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=166477

Paxtion 'Vichy France' & Jackson 'The Dark Years' describe it as poplar as long as the interests of the individual matched the government policy. The middle & upper classes saw the chaos of the 1940 defeat as nearly the worst thing possible, with its contiuation as the worst thing. Both groups sought a return to prewar conditions & had zero supor for continuing the war in the summer of 1940. This was reflected in the Chamber of deputies where only about 80 members of over 500 actively supported Renauds effort to move the government to Algeria. In the summer & autum Petain & Laval set forth a policy of completely ending the war with Germany & negotiating a peace treaty before the end of 1941. That had popular support, amoung the leftist parties as well. Everyone wanted a end to the war & the Armistice/occupation.

As 1940 ran out the left wing parties, working classes, and academics found themselves at odds with Petains conservative views. The suppresion of the left wing political parties, end of representative government, and inclusion of extreme rightwing & Facist leaders disturbed a large portion of the population. From 22 June the left lost all support for the Vichy government & German policies.

The middle classes & businessmen took longer. The retention of French PoW in German work camps made amny poeople unhappy. As long as the PoW was a 'Socialist' or maybe a Jew that was fine, but the conservatives found it was difficult to get their friends out of Germany as well. The German demands for French skilled laborers to work in Germany, the continued looting of French industry, and the bad German fnancial policy towards the ccupied nation had made in difficut for the average French businessman to do anything. This was aggravated by a few favored French profiting immensely from working with the Germans. Over 1941-42 mainly the threat of war & social disorder returning to France kept the middle class in support of the Government.

The aftermath of the Allied Torch operation showed the French middle class clearly the failure of the Vichy governments policies. The failure to get a peace treaty from Germany after two years, loss of the remaining French army without a noticeable fight, the occupation of all France, economic collapse, put the middle & upper classes in a worse position than before. It was also clear from very early in 1943 the Allies had the upper hand & might actually win. As 1943 progressed only the most conservative Frenchmen remained interested in the Vichy government, The mass of the politically active searched for alternatives. By the end of 1943 the remaining supporters of Petain & Laval were affiliated with the far right wing organizations. Even the police were more supportive of the Resistance than of the government, still drawing pay they increasingly aided the Resistance & interfered with German activity.

https://www.quora.com/How-come-the-Vichy-regime-received-so-much-support-during-the-World-War-2-in-France

The same kind of people who ask this question are the ones who say they love France but not the French.

So France is not just 60 million people but cities, universities, gardens, culture, museums, castles,language, music, a way of doing things.

Almost all the physical damage done to France in WWll was by British and American bombers and by British and Communist led sabotage.

The more I read about life in Paris during the occupation the better it sounds.

It was clear that Churchill was prepared for the physical destruction of France and Italy if it furthered the Empire.

It was Churchill who had the French Navy attacked and sunk.

The French upper class' attitude toward Hitler was the same as the Chilean upper class' attitude toward PInochet: if we make a deal with this thug we will preserve our property and get democracy back later, if we let the communists take over we will loose our property and democracy and never get them back.

If you talked to some French aristocrat who votes for the Front National, he would probably say that the German occupation of Paris did less damage than American fast food and American tourists.

I found the above quote rather enlightening.


 
Posted : 14/10/2018 5:47 pm
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You think corbyn, with his lifelong Euroscrptic views would be much better than the present shower?

It’d just be role reversal. A fiercely pro-EU membership and MPs against a leader, and close cabal., who want the opposite

Party unity would be in the same place as the Tories

we’re truly ****ed


 
Posted : 14/10/2018 6:53 pm
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Actually not sure this is true.

We're ultimately all to blame. We've voted these hopeless ****s into power.

Hopefully in future people will pay more attention to who they are voting for, and not boil it down to 'I must vote Conservative/Labour'. Problem is it's possibly too late - once this power grab is over chances are we will be able to vote for anyone we like as long as it's the 'Glorious Empire' party.


 
Posted : 14/10/2018 8:35 pm
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DUP will collapse the government.


 
Posted : 14/10/2018 8:37 pm
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So I'm hearing rumours that Raab's meeting with Barnier collapsed. Announcement allegedly coming tomorrow that we're leaving with no deal


 
Posted : 14/10/2018 8:50 pm
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It’d just be role reversal. A fiercely pro-EU membership and MPs against a leader, and close cabal., who want the opposite

Except that, as the party members have a democratic say, surely the leader has to do what they want anyway?


 
Posted : 14/10/2018 9:09 pm
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So I’m hearing rumours that Raab’s meeting with Barnier collapsed. Announcement allegedly coming tomorrow that we’re leaving with no deal

Well in that case all bets are off.


 
Posted : 14/10/2018 9:23 pm
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Announcing no deal would be a bit of a bombshell wouldn't it?  What would the response be?


 
Posted : 14/10/2018 9:39 pm
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 What would the response be?

Would the last one to leave please turn the lights off?

Also I imagine given the level of competence so far something like this


 
Posted : 14/10/2018 9:43 pm
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Good rundown of what went on today.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2018/oct/14/brexit-deal-eu-ambassadors-meet-amid-speculation-about-final-agreement-politics-live

An absolute Omnishambles. They’re talking about Davis replacing May FFS!!!!


 
Posted : 14/10/2018 10:13 pm
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They’re talking about Davis replacing May FFS!!!!

Davis, as apt as the vid above is.... Davis is the Arnold Rimmer of the Tories


 
Posted : 14/10/2018 10:20 pm
 rone
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DUP will collapse the government.

And thus themselves?

Not so sure.


 
Posted : 14/10/2018 10:23 pm
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it all sounds very desperate on the UK side . surely a no deal tomorrow would collapse the £ and the economy !


 
Posted : 14/10/2018 10:33 pm
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DUP will collapse the government.

The EU negotiators are possibly smart enough to hold off on announcements until after the magic budget is passed to prevent anyone having an excuse to vote it down and precipitate a GE


 
Posted : 14/10/2018 10:35 pm
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Johnson is now bemoaning the fact we'll no longer have any say in the EU after march.....

https://twitter.com/asabenn/status/1051579932323794944


 
Posted : 14/10/2018 11:30 pm
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So… May successfully gets a big concession from the EU ( namely that the Irish backstop can involve all of the UK being within the Custom Union 'till replacement deals are in place, rather than just NI ) only to then get her win torpedoed by Brexitiers in her own party.

I fully expect to read tomorrow how this is the fault of Remainers, or the EU, or the French, or civil servants… but not those Tory Brexitiers, obviously.


 
Posted : 15/10/2018 12:20 am
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what a mess


 
Posted : 15/10/2018 12:50 am
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45859282


 
Posted : 15/10/2018 10:18 am
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Well it's certainly a good job the Royal couple of been getting it on, timed for a perfect royal baby distraction in the spring!!


 
Posted : 15/10/2018 10:23 am
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The leader of our democratically elected government is fulfilling the wishes of the people. A handful of tory gammons don't like it so are going to vote it down.

Surely that's as undemocratic as me wanting a second referendum?


 
Posted : 15/10/2018 10:46 am
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Seeing as the government seem to be refusing to do so, has anyone else made any practical plans for when we crash out on March 29th next year?

Myself and Mrs Binners we’re discussing it yesterday and we’ve decided we’re going to go away for the week. We’re thinking Scottish Highlands, and a news blackout? Let this shambles play out without us. I’m going to book it this week.

Anyone else?


 
Posted : 15/10/2018 10:59 am
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Seeing as the government seem to be refusing to do so, has anyone else made any practical plans for when we crash out on March 29th next year?

Lock myself in the EU parliament building with a crate of Leffe and claim political asylum.


 
Posted : 15/10/2018 11:01 am
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Seeing as the government seem to be refusing to do so, has anyone else made any practical plans for when we crash out on March 29th next year?

Bought a greenhouse, improved the gardens growing capabilities, built a brexit larder and filled it with canned goods.  Few bottles of Gin to wash away the Spam...mmm spam sandwiches


 
Posted : 15/10/2018 11:05 am
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Im going to binge watch series of Marooned with Ed Stafford, to learn how to live off frogs & make clothes out of grass


 
Posted : 15/10/2018 11:22 am
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And thus themselves?

Given their performance in NI I wouldnt put it past them.


 
Posted : 15/10/2018 11:31 am
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Brexit negotiations have hit a "real problem" over the issue of the Irish border, government sources have warned.

Who'd have thought that would happen?! It's not as if we were being warned about this before the vote or anything..


 
Posted : 15/10/2018 11:32 am
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"Anyone else"

Yep. Me too binners - a nice week away at the end of March sounds like the best plan.

Oh, hang on....

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/sep/18/police-chiefs-no-deal-brexit-would-mean-loss-crime-fighting-tools


 
Posted : 15/10/2018 11:36 am
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Practical measures:

Irish passports for the family. Wife'll have to be smuggled in the boot.

Am busy re-locating my business to a brass plate in Dublin as I've already been told by my customer and my customer's customer that we'll be persona non grata on-site in Germany. Have been told similar by my other client in Finland. Euro bank account for the business along with emergency account for me.

Moved our skiing holiday from Half Term to April so I don't have to sit next to Liam The Gormless in the hotel restaurant lest I may lose my presence of mind. Am pre-paying for any foreign expenses post March wherever I can - so my skiing holiday in Austria is all being booked and paid for right now, including lift passes, ski school & kindergarten for the kid's. Doing the same for Summer holiday next year.

German Umwelt badge updated for the van as there's no guarantee Brit vehicles will qualify any more. May even do the same for our Austrian vignette.

Anything I regularly bring in from Europe on the cheap I'm doing now - tyres and brakes for the cars, regular bike consumables.

Business as frikking usual, my arse!


 
Posted : 15/10/2018 11:55 am
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I've renewed my passport early so at least it still says EU on the front.


 
Posted : 15/10/2018 12:27 pm
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I envisage the negotiations going something like this, with the EU as Bernie Mac but instead of saying “half” they’re saying “the four freedoms”, meanwhile were on the other side making desperate pleas...


 
Posted : 15/10/2018 12:38 pm
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I do miss having THM here to tell us how well the grown ups are doing.


 
Posted : 15/10/2018 12:45 pm
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Haha.


 
Posted : 15/10/2018 12:47 pm
 dazh
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I'm beginning to think this is all just theatre. The key is the position of the labour party. We all know the DUP and Brexit nutters will vote to burn the house down, but I'm pretty sure that when the chips are down Corbyn/Starmer will offer an escape route by voting with the govt or abstaining. Corbyn pretty much said as much in his conference speech. They'll do it because if they don't a massive number of labour MPs will rebel anyway, and much of the membership will be massively pissed off. But they'll only do so once they've extracted the maximum political capital out of it, perhaps in the form of an agreement on bringing forward the next election to March just after we leave?


 
Posted : 15/10/2018 2:43 pm
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All of the optimist opinions on here have so far proven to be false hope Dazh, so I think it will just go to shit and we'll get a mineral.


 
Posted : 15/10/2018 2:49 pm
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Corbyn / Labours best outcome right now is the fall of the government.  Supporting any deal that May tries to put forward is unthinkable unless she goes for an EEA deal.  Nothing else will do

No deal is going to satisfy the zeal of the deranged on the right so they will vote down whatever cobbled together nonsense she does come back with.  she cannot survive that.

Electoral maths will then decide the next steps


 
Posted : 15/10/2018 2:53 pm
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Katya Adler just tweeted this

Anyone wondering why - after so many months of Brexit talks - the Irish border issue hasn’t yet been settled should consider that - according EU sources - the Irish backstop was not discussed in negotiations by U.K. request between Dec and the end of the Tory party conference

May considered it too politically sensitive to even discuss, apparently. I'd love to refer to that as unbelievable, but its far from it.  Nothing surprises me with these clowns any more. Its been obvious since the off that keeping the Tory party together and in power has been the over-riding priority, no mater what cost that comes at to the country


 
Posted : 15/10/2018 2:54 pm
 dazh
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Corbyn / Labours best outcome right now is the fall of the government.

It's not going to happen. Even if the nutters vote down the brexit deal, or even the budget, they'll fall back in line on a no confidence vote. Also consider that Labour voting against will split the PLP right down the middle. Corbyn is trying to position and present himself and the shad-cab as a serious government-in-waiting. To do that they need to show that they can act in the national interest and rise above petty party squabbles and this is the perfect opportunity. But May will need to offer them something massive, like an election. She'd also get to call the bluff of Johnson, Mogg and Foster.


 
Posted : 15/10/2018 3:08 pm
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great example of the Tories putting party before country binners!


 
Posted : 15/10/2018 3:32 pm
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Mr Corbyn and the Labour party?! I'd almost forgotten about them!

How are they doing?

Are they somewhere nice?

When are they due back? After all, I thought "the season" over and all the debutants presented.

Well, I'm sure wherever they've got to, they'll be back straight away if something important happens.


 
Posted : 15/10/2018 3:38 pm
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Well, I’m sure wherever they’ve got to, they’ll be back straight away if something important happens.

Well it's far better than tearing themselves apart in public for no gain at all.


 
Posted : 15/10/2018 3:46 pm
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It’s not going to happen. Even if the nutters vote down the brexit deal, or even the budget, they’ll fall back in line on a no confidence vote. Also consider that Labour voting against will split the PLP right down the middle. Corbyn is trying to position and present himself and the shad-cab as a serious government-in-waiting. To do that they need to show that they can act in the national interest and rise above petty party squabbles and this is the perfect opportunity. But May will need to offer them something massive, like an election. She’d also get to call the bluff of Johnson, Mogg and Foster.

You have a stronger belief in rational choice theory than either me or TJ.....unfortunately I think TJ will be proven right.


 
Posted : 15/10/2018 3:52 pm
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Yes it's a terrible shame that there isn't a rational and reasonable argument that they could have been putting forward for, oh, the last couple of years. And we wouldn't be any closer to finding a solution (the solution) if they had done so.


 
Posted : 15/10/2018 3:53 pm
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The only outcome that is in the national interest is to cancel brexit. That's been clear to anyone with a brain for a couple of years and more.


 
Posted : 15/10/2018 3:54 pm
 DrJ
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Still struggling to imagine what a NI solution could look like:

1. No part of the UK in customs union = hard border

2. NI in CU = Arlene Foster nutters meltdown

3. UK in CU = Brexshiteers meltdown

What am I missing here ?


 
Posted : 15/10/2018 4:11 pm
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The only outcome that is in the national interest is to cancel brexit. That’s been clear to anyone with a brain for a couple of years and more.

Interestingly the latest rumour I've heard from the pro-Brexit crowd is that if we try to revoke article 50 now, the EU won't let us back in without being part of schengen proper, taking the Euro, a reduction in subsidies and losing our veto...

I tried having a quick look around the web for the facts, but couldn't find anything, it all sounds a bit "project fear" to me.


 
Posted : 15/10/2018 4:13 pm
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The only outcome that is in the national interest is to cancel brexit. That’s been clear to anyone with a brain for a couple of years and more.

This is so self-evidently true that I can't really believe that no one seriously suggests it. We elect our representatives to govern in our best interests. This is the only option that fulfils that mandate. So why is no one backing it? Sod a second referendum, just do the bloody job you were elected to do.


 
Posted : 15/10/2018 4:14 pm
 MSP
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For the EU to cancel brexit now, they have to sell it to the rest of the EU population, the UK has burned any goodwill and the view from most of the EU is now "good riddance to bad rubbish".

That being said, the EU is more pragmatic than the idiot ideologs currently in charge of the UK government.


 
Posted : 15/10/2018 4:16 pm
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AstraZeneca chairman:Leif Johansson
"We have also stopped investing in the UK."

Now that's the kind of out-of-the-box, red, white and blue Brexit decisions we need!

Simply by removing investment into UK businesses, we will become leaner, fitter and even more attractive to, ooh I don't know... birds? Minke whales? NGO's offering food aid?


 
Posted : 15/10/2018 4:18 pm
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Interestingly the latest rumour I’ve heard from the pro-Brexit crowd is that if we try to revoke article 50 now, the EU won’t let us back in without being part of schengen proper, taking the Euro, a reduction in subsidies and losing our veto…

If we do leave and ever try to get back in (quite likely as expect there will be a pro EU movement that carries on) then I expect we'll be faced with exactly the same, unless they get some proper grown ups in to do the negotiation for that.


 
Posted : 15/10/2018 4:23 pm
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Of course, if we leave I'd expect it, but they're suggesting that if we try to cancel A50 without leaving first that's what'll happen


 
Posted : 15/10/2018 4:27 pm
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Interestingly the latest rumour I’ve heard from the pro-Brexit crowd is that if we try to revoke article 50 now, the EU won’t let us back in without being part of schengen proper, taking the Euro, a reduction in subsidies and losing our veto…

It is my understanding if we revoke Article 50 we can with no penalty, it's just Ok everybody as you were...

https://twitter.com/uk_domain_names/status/1051411763680473090


 
Posted : 15/10/2018 4:45 pm
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the latest rumour I’ve heard from the pro-Brexit crowd is that if we try to revoke article 50 now, the EU won’t let us back in without being part of schengen proper, taking the Euro, a reduction in subsidies and losing our veto…

I personally wouldn't mind this at all.  I would have more than a little chuckle too 🙂


 
Posted : 15/10/2018 4:45 pm
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I'm hearing reports that actually talks have progressed very well, and in fact there are now only two questions yet to be answered before we can leave.

How?

and

Why?


 
Posted : 15/10/2018 4:46 pm
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Once out, we won't be allowed back in for decades.

We'll be back to going cap in hand to the US and latterly, the IMF with all that entails: "...Because we can't kick our creditors in the balls" - H Wilson.

"Big Yellow Taxi" by Joni Mitchell was just playing on the radio....


 
Posted : 15/10/2018 4:48 pm
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The panic has set in (well not in the EU) the end is nigh and all that.

Its stunning that NI and the DUP is the catalyst.

We have lots of clients who are just sitting and waiting, some have relocated IT back to Europe and others have "bought" offices in Holland and Ireland.

Personally there is little as a business we can do, we are likely to loose a few clients in Germany/Ireland and some as above will move IT support "home" just lost a support contract with a German business and they bluntly quoted brexit (this was a six year relationship)

Should have been a growth year for us post GDPR but likley to standstill at best.

In practical terms it means we will not be creating a couple of grad jobs.

Its all getting very real. Trouble is non involved DUP PM ERG Labour actually depend on clients to pay their bills, ideology only exists while there is food and money.


 
Posted : 15/10/2018 5:04 pm
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Fro the beeb just now..

Giving a statement to MPs, she (May) said the EU had "responded positively" to her proposal for a UK-wide arrangement - but that it was insisting on keeping a specific arrangement for Northern Ireland on the table.


 
Posted : 15/10/2018 5:12 pm
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Corbyn / Labours best outcome right now is the fall of the government.  Supporting any deal that May tries to put forward is unthinkable unless she goes for an EEA deal.  Nothing else will do

60% of labour constituencies voted leave. Although the stat is just an indicator but Labour were pro A50 and would say that they were voted in as a leave party with Corbyn as massively anti EU.

There can be surveys published all of the day and night that say we are moving one way or another but to say that any party has a mandate for anything from a very confused electorate is a stretch


 
Posted : 15/10/2018 5:23 pm
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Chair of the Brexit Committee Hilary Benn says that on the Northern Irish border issue, "the expectation of an end date is not the same as a definite end date".

He asks when the prime minister will tell her party that "we cannot have a fixed, artificial time limit on that fall back which the government is trying to negotiate with the EU."

The prime minister says the purposed backstop is "an insurance policy", which will be "there for the time until the future relationship can come into place."

"We expect that to be no later than December 2021", but the government will be working to ensure that happens as early as possible, she says.

She repeats that the government wants the backstop "never to have to come into place".


 
Posted : 15/10/2018 5:26 pm
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From the Commons: MPs keep asking awkward questions about deadlines and dates that Mrs M will commit to.

She should firmly remind them she's absolutely committed to eliminating all avoidable plastic waste by 2042.


 
Posted : 15/10/2018 5:26 pm
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What am I missing here ?

IT, Leprechauns, Unicorns?


 
Posted : 15/10/2018 5:36 pm
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60% of labour constituencies voted leave

That this is true, while it is also true that 65% of Labour voters voted Remain, tells you all you need to know about how fundamentally broken and undemocratic the UK system is.


 
Posted : 15/10/2018 5:42 pm
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There can be surveys published all of the day and night that say we are moving one way or another but to say that any party has a mandate for anything from a very confused electorate is a stretch

That's why we need another ref.

Tories collapse, Labour win power then offer a 2nd ref as per conference, Starmer and the remainers make Corb and McD see sense and put remain on the ballot along with whatever the EU offers and no deal.  With the leave vote split, remain romps home.  Then revoking A50 is the democratic will, no-one loses face, and business can start to recover.  Job's a goodun.


 
Posted : 15/10/2018 5:48 pm
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Tories collapse, Labour win power then offer a 2nd ref as per conference, Starmer and the remainers make Corb and McD see sense and put remain on the ballot along with whatever the EU offers and no deal. With the leave vote split, remain romps home. Then revoking A50 is the democratic will, no-one loses face, and business can start to recover. Job’s a goodun.

Can I please live in this utopian society where people and politicians act in the best interests of all rather than trying to line their own pockets or grease their way into power by whatever means necessary.??  Seriously, is there like, a form I need to fill in or somewhere I can get tickets.?? Pretty please.?


 
Posted : 15/10/2018 5:57 pm
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I think that people missunderstand what happened at the labour conference, a second ref is the labour leaderships last option, they would still rather push ahead with brexit just with them in the negotiating seat.

IMO they have no intention of holding a second ref, the wording of the statement just had that as a distant possibility to avoid an immediate revolt.

The labour conference was rather easily duped, in a way that is becoming all to common in our modern democracies.


 
Posted : 15/10/2018 6:01 pm
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I don't know if this makes me a bad person or not, but as someone who's loathed the whole idea of Brexit since it began, I'm now taking rather a lot of pleasure in watching the negotiations fall apart together with the Tory Party and the DUP.

Had I been in Teresa May's (very posh) shoes a year ago I'd have scrapped the whole thing, resigned, and sauntered away while giving two fingers to the Brexit brigade.

Roll on the holiday next year.  Well stocked up here with 40,000 tins of corned beef in the garage along with Shaun of the Dead (for research purposes obv.).


 
Posted : 15/10/2018 6:13 pm
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