I use below par with bonds for sure, prime for loans
Avoids being vague
Fail.
True colours flying high today again
@GrahamS, your first example is no longer really in use for loans. Died off before even I left that sector.
Subpar and subprime lending already meant lending to people with below the normally expected/required credit rating (and hence ability It repay quickly if required) in America… thanks to the credit crash, they are now terms used over here as well, with subprime being the version much preferred by the media.
Still failing to read the posts from pages back and the Peston ones cougar???
Option 1: I could read back through a thousand pages to attempt to guess what you're referring to.
Option 2: You could type a sentence.
as part of project fear we told lots of lies about the impact of the vote immediately before hand.
We've done this. A failure to accurately predict the future is not a lie. What else have you got?
It seems the limit of THM’s financial experience is that he managed to get himself an overdraft.
I think you will find "we" got ourselves an overdraft
Also, for clarity, when you say "we," are you referring to remain campaigners, remain voters or remain posters on STW? I'm assuming you mean the former.
1 read first time or a few pages back
2 if you missed the context and timing then you will always miss the point - deliberate or otherwise. Neither Peston nor I did, so have a look.
if you stop being vague.
Are you new around here ?
I didn't know obfuscation and trolling had their own flag,or are you referring to someone else trollhurtmore?
Is HM Treasury not specific enough, with the date? Read and scrutinise
Let’s not forget our resident Eu financial guru couldn’t tell me how much my chocolate would go up but waffled on about cocoa yields.
A quick look on the wto website and the answer was there.
Most fantasists pretend to be spies or fighter pilots.
Aim higher.
Your the chocolate expert Zippy and you had to ask others - even more bizarre
1 read first time or a few pages back
2 if you missed the context and timing then you will always miss the point – deliberate or otherwise. Neither Peston nor I did, so have a look.
I'm not interested in what a journalist says in the round.
List the lies, and attribute them to whoever said or published them.
Journalists can take "worst case scenerios" to make a headline, and report out of context. Let us scrutinise the actual words of whoever you said lied.
We might agree with you, if you are specific.
Oh wise THM , I am just a humble shop keeper with no knowledge of international trade deals ,that’s why I thought I’d ask a ****ing “expert”:
I’m not normally but I am when HMT and BoE have their independence compromised (the polite version of “forced to tell lies” )
Stick to experts Zippy the **** version are less likely to be reliable.
I am just a humble shop keeper
I think this explains a lot about THM position. Clearly they think everyone is an expert in international trade and politics and hence was able to make a fully informed decision when voting.
Better than assuming they are all thickos and or racists
Oh look a bespoke eurosquirrel. What a surprise.
Better than assuming they are all thickos and or racists
To be honest I would reckon both are flawed. For someone complaining about lies and exaggerations you do seem rather fond of them yourself though.
List the lies, and attribute them to whoever said or published them.
This
And while you are at it the lies from the treasury or the BOE please?
YOu have been asked this many times and its obvious that you are unable to do so.
Put up or shut up
Better than assuming they are all thickos and or racists
It would be better if voters were assumed to be idiots, yes. Topics could then get explained at the right level which they could understand. Okay it would patronise a lot of people but at least everyone would understand and therefore be informed. But of course, governments don't want informed electorates do they...
It would be better if voters were assumed to be idiots, yes.
Almost half of the populace is below average intelligence.
But that doesn't fit with THM's polemic, the notion that we're all smug and think everyone else is stupid is another leverage point he likes to use to throw stones at the group of people he claims to be one of in every other post.
Making stuff up again cougar - that’s quite a habit.
There is little simpler than - do you want to be a member of the EU or leave the EU. Contrast that will demands for elaborate ballot papers listing different options etc?!?
We've had that very argument several times, as well you know, you little scallywag.
Yes but only one participant has the privilege to get away with it.
You could of course find the quote. Up to you
How’s that list coming along?
actually I retract this, but just because I can't be bothered to get into an exchange with someone who's game is to wind people up.
Fine it’s in print eg, may 2016 plus I have referenced where to look. Teach a man to fish
or it wasn’t true
Make a point. Cut and paste a quote. Attribute the source. Citation please. We may well agree with you, if we knew what exactly you are calling a lie.
Already done and ignored, so why bother
Make a point. Cut and paste a quote. Attribute the source.
BOE and tr4easury please as well.
You keep claiming that all these people lied. Now lets see the lies. No one else can or has seen them
You could of course find the quote. Up to you
It's in the previous 1257 pages, and I know you prefer people to read back and do their own research. I'd hate for you to miss any context.
Plenty will not have seen it or know where to look.
Copy and paste for those.
Teach a man to fish
..and he catches a different fish to the one you were referring to. Show him the actual fish you meant and he knows it's a load of carp.
I don't think anyone thinks the Remain campaign was anything but a disaster, and completely outgunned by the Leave campaign. None of us particularly want to defend how it was handled, or the people involved in it. If you point out a specific lie @teamhurtmore, we are likely to agree with you, if it was indeed a lie.
Now, is the reason for all your "our side lied" noise to try and claim some equivalence with the lies that were central to the campaign posters, videos, buses etc of the Leave campaigns? To brush aside concerns about how those campaigns were funded, and deliberately broke the law?
Making stuff up again cougar – that’s quite a habit.
Cite please.
Agreed @onewheelgood … let's move on from 2016, and concentrate on what's happening, or not, right now.
Tick. Tock.
So can’t we just leave it? Why can’t I leave it? Why am I bothering posting this?
Because he is trolling well. You should be ashamed of yourselves.
Because he is trolling well.
I dunno about that. A good troll isnt caught out and, ideally, starts the fight and then walks away leaving everyone else to fight it out.
I dunno about that. A good troll isnt caught out and, ideally, starts the fight and then walks away leaving everyone else to fight it out.
I will have no more of your lies
Since when has exposing the lies used to obstruct the passage of democracy not been about Brexit. It is it’s defining (past, current and forward) characteristic.
Odd there still seemed a lot of people milling around Canary Wharf today including some senior people and even just had a visit from IT. This is despite the fact they have all left in floods
Avoids being vague
Fail. Again.
boss of JLR = "tens of thousands of jobs at risk" "
Ralf Speth, the company’s chief executive, told the prime minister that he could not say for certain that any of the automative giant’s manufacturing plants in Britain, which employ 40,000 people, could continue to operate after Brexit day.
Barnier has already had his say on Chequers. The EU’s member states will not accept its central planks: a facilitated customs arrangement that will allow the UK to have an independent trade policy, while enjoying the benefits of frictionless trade, and a common rule book on agricultural and industrial goods
Sorry - has Brexit happened yet?
I must have missed that.
Or are they just planning and waiting until everyone (but not TMH) finds out what type of Brexit will actually happen.
But great news about the increased funding for the NHS (well - spending money on stock piling drugs which will go out of date and get binned).
Has Turkey joined?
What colour uniforms is the EU Army going to wear?
Eurozone meltdown put back till Monday, yeah?
Not sure @Leku, but I have discovered first hand that GPs have been told not to allow patients to obtain contingency supplies of their own. So "just it time" prescriptions of insulin are to continue. No buffers in the fridge at home. Might just have to find a way of buying some in February, to be stress free.
Were looking forward deadly. The euro zone meltdown started in 2009 and for the poor young unemployed of S Europe is still lingering with them. Shame folk in the U.K. have such little empathy with them.
boss of JLR = “tens of thousands of jobs at risk” ”
But those jobs are not in the financial sector so they aren't proper jobs at all.
That's quite a slow burner then. Any indication of when this meltdown will come to a head? My wife is planning a trip to the Euro-zone next week and it would be annoying to get caught up in civil unrest.
Remarkably, we have avoided any trouble during our trips there during this past decade of meltdown. In fact it's been much like the UK, but with better coffee and weather.
The euro zone meltdown started in 2009 and for the poor young unemployed of S Europe is still lingering with them. Shame folk in the U.K. have such little empathy with them.
Please explain how Brexit helps them?
Your causality is the wrong way round. You should be asking how did their experiences contribute/lead to Brexit, populism and a major shift in the political climate in Sweden
ask the wrong question...
the passage of democracy
This is getting tiresome now, but please find any democratic event in history where the losing side went "fair enough mate, we lost. You were right and we were wrong. I'm no longer going to argue for my side"
You are just the worst THM. Your stance is the adult equivalent of being caught doing something wrong by your parents, using the old "but everyone else was doing it" and your parents asking you "if everyone else jumped off a cliff would you do the same?"
Thankfully some of us have a bit of backbone and grit and we'll continue to fight for what we believe in rather than being pansy defeatist cucks!
72-73 read the background and gasp
tell me an event (not Jambas v TJ) where two sides tried to outdo each other in posting things that were untrue
no complaints bob about the constant misrepresentation of current developments??
Echo
Since when has exposing the lies used to obstruct the passage of democracy not been about Brexit.
You've exposed less than my 87 year old maiden aunt. And I spoke to Peston - he's never ******* heard of you.
Your causality is the wrong way round.
If you are this much of an irritating little man (apologies if you are female, I can't remember if we ever established your gender) in real life it's not surprising you have to spend all your time on here - I can't imagine anyone wanting to spend any time with you.
I know perfectly well what has driven the rise in populism. The financial services sector will be the next to feel the effects. I also know that Brexit and all the other nationalist movements will only makes things worse for those most affected. Are you actually proposing any positive action, or are you just trying (successfully) to wind people up?
That’s a relief
no complaints bob about the constant misrepresentation of current developments??
Again, tiresome. You're playing semantics, and this has been pointed out to you many times, but once more with feeling, we haven't actually left the EU yet.
The PM has been busy today… highlighting strategic investment made by the EU in the UK. She then had to listened to the JLR explaining how her choices could well end car manufacturing in the UK.
Another good day for her.
I agree that Brexit won’t help then. That was never my point. On the contrary, I have long argued that if we don’t understand why people voted to leave then the debate is doomed. See above.
So rather than driving them away/bullying/insulting then, far better to recognise that neither the true economic arguments nor the desperate economic lies (pre and post vote) work. Otherwise you end up with populist, extremists rising even in our more liberal economies.
This thread has been a catalogue of abuse of the winners combined with gross distortions of truth in the main. Only the latter makes it fun to read. The former should have been moderates against, but hey ho
This here euro meltdown. Now you told us Greece would leave the euro at least 2 years ago. You also said others would follow. Still not happened. Still a stronger currency than the £. Still working just fine, still no meltdown
These lies told by the BOE and HMT - are you going to tell us what they are / were?
Or do we conclude you are a know nothing walt?
Actually its been a catalogue of abuse against the rich people who deliberately misled and miisinformed people into voting leave.
On the contrary, I have long argued that if we don’t understand why people voted to leave then the debate is doomed.
That's the most reasonable, logical thing I've seen you post since you came back. On the flip side, do you understand why people are anxious for us not to leave?
The former should have been moderates against, but hey ho
I don't recall you being overtly insulting, amd I've certainly seen some nasty stuff aimed at you, but you can be pretty snotty when someone corners you on a point, you're a long way from being blameless on that score.
THM,are you really JRM in disguise,or is it your own personal fantasy ?
The main poster of abuse on here is THM< - constantly calling me a liar and a bully amongst others but will not say where and when I or anyone else has lied.
So go on THM - prove I am a liar or admit you call people names for no reason
Actually its been a catalogue of abuse against the rich people who deliberately misled and miisinformed people into voting leave.
Yup, we’ve been pretty disparaging of politicians that campaigned for Remain as well.
Such as our current PM… how has her day been today…? How is her plan going down with industry, voters, and her own MPs?
And the leader of the opposition, has he put any bones on his plan yet? Or is it just "the government is doing it wrong"? Using the same "we're not the government" reasoning as the ERG to avoid spelling out how we should Leave?
Not many positive postings for our last PM either. High point of the year was a Brexit voting actor calling him a ____… we all quite enjoyed that.
Indeed bob and yet you forget that the doomsday forecasts related to the immediate impact
as the then CoE noted
”these lies, sorry this paper focuses on the immediate impact of a vote to leave and the two years that follow”
Have you forgotten the lie about a vote to leave would represent and immediate and profound shock to our economy?
TJ you have the courtesy to post links that falsify your own points yourself. You don’t need assistance
as the then CoE noted
Interesting quote. Dont suppose you have an actual reliable source for that do you?
Have you forgotten the lie about a vote to leave would represent and immediate and profound shock to our economy?
You seem to be confusing a prediction within a range of outcomes, as that was, with a lie. If it helps a lie is when you claim to have been posting a paragraph of text repeatedly prior to the vote when it wasnt written until six months or so afterwards. I thought you claimed to be an economist. That you struggle with this makes me wonder.
Also not sure if you noticed but that was also based on immediate triggering of article 50 when, instead, Cameron ran away.
Cars kill far more people than land mines.
The People's Princess fought long and hard to eradicate land mines.
We now have a People's Prime Minister who is doing her best to make sure that the UK no longer manufactures cars and all we can do is knock her for it.
Honestly , she just can't win.
Pondo - yes I voted remain
Diss - Incorrect that was the other quote. This was from our side’s official propaganda in May 2016
Honestly , she just can’t win.
We'll still buy cars though, no matter what.
Balance of payments is going to look interesting.
Just embrace staying part of the Single Market and Customs Union… those who are dead against that seem to be dead against her unworkable fudge anyway.
ask the wrong question…
Why are there ones you actually answer?
as the then CoE noted
This one?
Incorrect that was the other quote
How about you put up a link so we can review it. At the risk of pointing out the obvious I dont really have much faith in your ability to accurately report something.
Speaking of inability to accurately report something. Provide the link to the CoE quote. You put it in quotes so it shouldnt be hard to find the original. Unless you are making stuff up again.
Diss - you are asking for a link now having previously detailed a critique of the point? Had you not read it first
(page three, para 7 of the report you must have read to post your post)