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A q for Mike - why did you return to the UK? Just curious.
We can limit non eu immigration but not EU, freedom of movement innit. Unless there is some loophole that I am not aware of.
We have powers at our disposal to further restrict migration but choose not to use them. That's a UK issue, not an EU one.
But the EU is still using its powers to force eu nations to take non eu immigrants as well.
Is it? How so?
currently the UK has no strategy for identfying skills shortages and promoting them and preventing those that don’t complement them.
Again - how is this the UK not having a strategy the fault of the EU?
the more I read the more I’m landing on dear old Jamby
Can't be, he's answering questions rather than stating "facts" and then changing the subject.
A q for Mike – why did you return to the UK? Just curious.
Job offer, couldn't get the job to work and live in Hobart over there and had no interest in moving the the mainland cities.
Life is full of chances to push yourself - except some people want to cut those chances off for people 🙁
Can’t be, he’s answering questions rather than stating “facts” and then changing the subject.
It was the immigration lines for me, sounded exactly like the mistruths often spoken, it also looks like someone has been stockpiling posts for a while!! Or check the being made redundant threads
Thank you Mike. Are the mainland cities much different to ours, it's Manchester you're in isn't it? Did NZ not appeal?
Some points from that article and the linked-to EU document:
1) Immigration can be subject to ‘public policy’ whatever that means
2) Immigration from non-EU countries is higher. This we have control over already. So if it’s such a big deal why do we not control what we ARE able to anyway? Don’t you get the feeling you are being played, dickens?
Interesting article and site that molgrips thanks. Yes absolutely we should be controlling migrants from non eu countries. As I've said previously I think there should be an aussie points system.
I am aware of the 'brake' system on benefits but wasn't aware that the UK could halt residence of eu citizens based on 'a genuine, present, serious threat..'. so thats new for me. But realistically if the government tried to use that in meaningful numbers the EU would use all their power to stop it, so it sounds to me like during the negotiations this has been put in as a concession but one that probably won't get used.
No I don't personally get the feeling I've been played, why would I? I am well aware that the government has done virtually nothing to reduce immigration (which has profited me personally) and Fox has even indicated that pre brexit targets will be ripped up post brexit.
Would other brexiteers have the right to feel like they've been played? I don't think so, the article doesn't change anything, everyone with half a brain knows the difference between eu and non eu migration. And anyway, the EU has been using legal means to force EU member states to take non eu migrants (refugees call it what you will).
We all need to look beyond the headlines, if you only read the guardian (insert other crap news source here) you will have a very one dimensional view of the world. To get a balanced view I try to read all news sources time permitting, even the guardian sometimes as well as 'alternative' news sites. And I'm on here debating with you lot, not because I like you (bunch of insufferable whingers) but I'm learning as well.
Tech companies like Arm
I didn't think that they exported anything but licensed their designs, and now that they're wholly owned by SoftBank Group, the profits now go abroad.
Personally, I see little to interest me professionally in the UK after 29th March 2019 beyond the projects that I have ongoing, several of which are 2-3 year timescale. Instead I'm focusing my interest on the US, Canada, Africa and South America where there are infrastructure projects in the pipeline. Australia is a bust flush, and Malaysia seems to be worried about the level of Chinese inward investment and is reducing its reliance.
I just want to correct an error I made the other day, Oldmanmtb wrote this:
The EU supplies us with a whole range of goods that we do not produce or have limited capabilty including Pharma equipment, robot milking machines, bacon, machine tools, tractors etc etc etc we dont have a *ing choice you stupid * the EU on the other hand actually do.
The stupidity is breathtakingly impressive.
And I wrote this:
Oldmanmtb – And? Why can we not still buy this stuff from the EU? Average tariffs range from 1.5% to 2.5% depending on which source you read. Yes cars (10%) and bikes (14%) have high tariffs but most products do not.
But I was getting muddled up with imports and exports (I think I'd answered about 30 posts by that time). The tariffs I quoted were on exports, WE set the tariffs on imports (subject to some bureaucracy and maximum levels). So oldmanmtb we could set a zero tarrif on all of those items if it suited us so it needn't cost us a penny more (apart from the cost of customs handling).
So yes the stupidity is breathtakingly impressive...
World trade will boom for many uk businesses after brexit.
Can anyone give me an example of where and why this might happen, apart from reasons of "necessity being the mother of invention" or stastically because trade with EU will become part of Britain's "world trade" after Brexit.
Excuse my ignorance but exactly how is britains world trade be unshackled by leaving the EU?
I didn’t think that they exported anything but licensed their designs, and now that they’re wholly owned by SoftBank Group, the profits now go abroad.
Thanks if that's the case I didn't know that.
Thank you Mike. Are the mainland cities much different to ours, it’s Manchester you’re in isn’t it? Did NZ not appeal?
I work in the niche end of a niche industry so I'm not just roaming the world picking up work.
Cheers for explaining Mike.
France has restricted immigration from countries which joined last like Romania.
So oldmanmtb we could set a zero tarrif on all of those items if it suited us so it needn’t cost us a penny more
Zero tariffs on imports? But we have tariffs for a reason on those things. I suspect there'd be significant issues if we did that - but of course I'm not an expert on international trade. I wouldn't be glibly touting it as a solution though.
But realistically if the government tried to use that in meaningful numbers the EU would use all their power to stop it
You're condemning the EU on the basis of things it hasn't done, because it supports your pre-existing position. This is why I am accusing you of confirmation bias.
No I don’t personally get the feeling I’ve been played, why would I?
See above. Those promoting leave are appealing to people such as you, who are predisposed to the leave side, and presenting things that they know will reinforce your beliefs. It's how campaigning works.
everyone with half a brain knows the difference between eu and non eu migration
Indeed but sadly that does not cover everyone. Plenty of anecdotal evidence to suggest that people did not think through their vote in the least.
And anyway, the EU has been using legal means to force EU member states to take non eu migrants (refugees call it what you will).
Oh now come on! There is a MASSIVE difference between refugees and immigrants! All the difference in the world. You MUST be able to see that surely?!
is the kind of thing one would expect a true white van driving, EDL supporting, express reading, intellectually challenged, racist, Brexiteer might say.
The thread that keeps giving and …
”so the dick”…
true colours come out under the pressure of Brexit
Fortunately Chewks ability to spot a jab in the ribs and laugh it off is better than your fake outrage.
Dickens, where do you stand on the wheel size argument?
He probably understands what “keeps giving” means too ie, not mistaking outrage for amusement
anyway how are all the preparations going? Several months in and hard Brexit more likely that before. Hope everyone’s getting nice and ready...
To some people, immigrants are immigrants whether they are from EU or not.
Leave TV add, showing people queuing up in hospitals because of EU membership promised fewer immigrants after Brexit, not fewer EU immigrants.
I would bet that it is in fact the majority of Leave voters, who want less immigration full stop, EU and rest of the world.
And on tarifs, for the UK to have zéro tarifs would be suicidal for lots of industries.
anyway how are all the preparations going? Several months in and hard Brexit more likely that before. Hope everyone’s getting nice and ready…
What is your preferred outcome?
Do you still have faith in the grown up's behind the scenes?
My prefences (1) remain then (2) bespoke FTA both not happening/unlikely to happen. So move on....
So makes sense to prep for worst case ie, hard Brexit (done) and then hope for best. As grown ups we have made our preps and we are ready for the worst. I have little faith in politicians so never leave it to them. That would be very silly.
But mixed reports on the behind the scenes stuff. Less progress that I had hoped for. Tant pis
So move on….
Think we've covered this. Anyone with a job to do in preparing for Brexit needs to do so. The rest of us (which is most of us) can whine if we want.
And by whine I mean express our discontent with the government which is our democratic perogative nay obligation.
Quick question then - are Scottish people in England immigrants?
Ooops - replied to wrong thread... nothing to see here.
You can mol indeed and if it helps, then why not?
Ooops – replied to wrong thread… nothing to see here.
Quite right it looked factually correct - so no place for it here.
Yep you can roll over and accept it or you can stand up and fight for what you want.
I think you have seen in here plenty who are willing to push for a remain outcome or at least some sort of deal.
Quick question then – are Scottish people in England immigrants?
And where do they sit on the multiculturalism scale? Or the Welsh coming to England speaking a different language and dining in men only choirs...
So makes sense to prep for worst case ie, hard Brexit (done) and then hope for best.
So assuming worst case, my lambs may be totally unprofitable when they are ready for sale next September. So do I put the rams in with the ewes and hope for the best, or sell all my sheep now while they still have a value and move back to Germany with my wife to mitigate the worst. Maybe plant the farm up with trees first while there are still some generous on-going payments for rewilding. Might provide a small income for the next 20 years.
welshfarmer, if it's any help, on The Archers a couple of days ago they were getting rid of a third of their flock on the basis that a third of national produce is exported to the EU 🙂
But in your position Germany sounds like a good move.
We have powers at our disposal to further restrict migration but choose not to use them. That’s a UK issue, not an EU one.
cougar - yes you are correct to a point. Government has powers to restrict non eu migration but has pretty much no powers to restrict eu migration. (I've gone over this and I think it was molgrips found the loophole whereby the UK could restrict based on a UK threat but realistically this won't be used and would be blocked by the ecj in any meaningful numbers anyway).
My personal view is it doesn't matter where they are from, we should have a pint system and accept a limted number of those in need. As an aside its pretty much discrimination to let one group of nations in (the eu) and not the rest, but the eu is not known for its fair play...
Is it? How so?
Again – how is this the UK not having a strategy the fault of the EU?
I didn't say it was the fault of the EU, I was just making the point.
France has restricted immigration from countries which joined last like Romania.
I could be wrong but as I understand it there were some initial temporary restrictions once romania joined the bloc but these were lifted years ago.
Zero tariffs on imports? But we have tariffs for a reason on those things. I suspect there’d be significant issues if we did that – but of course I’m not an expert on international trade. I wouldn’t be glibly touting it as a solution though.
Fair comment, I'm no expert either but you do as much research as you can and form a view. Legal experts have said we could set zero tariffs if we wished so if we didn't I presume there would be some greater benefit to it.
You’re condemning the EU on the basis of things it hasn’t done, because it supports your pre-existing position. This is why I am accusing you of confirmation bias.
See link above on the EU taking legal action for member states not taking refugees. If they've done it before on refugees how do you think they would view it on the citizens of their own member states?
See above. Those promoting leave are appealing to people such as you, who are predisposed to the leave side, and presenting things that they know will reinforce your beliefs. It’s how campaigning works.
To true and project leave are doing the same and the losers are lapping it up as evidenced by the fear on this forum. But as I've already said I personally look past the headlines and try to get to the truth.
Indeed but sadly that does not cover everyone. Plenty of anecdotal evidence to suggest that people did not think through their vote in the least.
Quite right, the same with remainers.
Oh now come on! There is a MASSIVE difference between refugees and immigrants! All the difference in the world. You MUST be able to see that surely?!
Of course I know what the dictionary definition of migrants vs refugees is. Telling them apart when you meet them is a whole different kettle of fish and this has been the debate amongst european leaders and our friends the ecj.
Of course we should accept a limited number of refugees, we are a civilised society after all, but the scale of the problem is far more than we can take on (dozens of millions from all sorts of countries) and we would be much better off helping those people in their own countries wherever possible by brokering peace and helping trade and their economic development (which the EU currently prohibits us from doing in many cases because they are a mafia like protectionist racket).
Right would love to shoot the shit some more but I'm taking the long suffering Mrs Dickens on a posh weekend away...
Definitely Jambalaya
Right would love to shoot the shit some more
Keep your shit to yourself, multi account troll.
Have a nice weekend 😉
So makes sense to prep for worst case ie, hard Brexit
What should I be doing?
Less progress that I had hoped for.
We told you. Way back. And even those of us with contacts in key government departments received the well known THM condescending treatment. You know what you're taking about, we don't, everyone get behind the fantasy politics of whoever currently leads the Conservative party.
aP: "Instead I’m focusing my interest on the US, Canada, Africa and South America where there are infrastructure projects in the pipeline. Australia is a bust flush, and Malaysia seems to be worried about the level of Chinese inward investment and is reducing its reliance."
(Slight diversion)
If I were to invest I would focus on Africa, South America and even Malaysia (we are draining the swamp for new future). The reason for this is that China is moving extremely fast in road into those regions. Yes, we welcome investment but not one that is lopsided like the previous agreement with the Chinese company/govt related during our ex- crook PM. Inward investment is only good if they are not there to exploit and to be the loan shark. If they want to invest then invest properly by creating employment etc, but Not to bring in their entire workforce by grabbing employment from the locals. As our PM has said that to the Chinese govt in his recent trip to China. We welcome inward investments from all over the world as we are business friendly, but if anyone try to exploit us then we will ask them to leave. China is a big country but so is ASEAN, we may not be powerful but we can stand our ground easily. If you have the right investment now for Malaysia you will find that you will be able to benefit very well due to recent change of govt.
everyone get behind the fantasy politics of whoever currently leads the Conservative party.
Did we ever work out who that was?
.If you have the right investment now for Malaysia you will find that you will be able to proceed very smoothly due to recent change of govt.
Sounds awesome, and bad.... What investment needs is stability (unless you are into high risk stuff) so having to worry about another change of government is not good. Bike like how uncertainty is having it's impact in the UK
No you didn’t. You predicted chaos that’s not happened. The doomsday scenarios predicted on here generally and specifically in my area have been miles away from reality. As I told you.
The fantasies simply changed sides in the debate
Fortunately I ignored you and others and made the appropriate preps. Hence no need for hysterics and hyperbole.
It's all going swimmingly THM.
I have investment advice for you as well @chewkw, but am unsure how any of that helps the people I give a shit about living and working in the UK and EEA, working hard to improve their lives and ours.
edit - I see you've added a "(Slight diversion)" caveat - carry on as you were, and ignore my rant. No, actually, don't ignore it… feel free to reply to any of the previous questions as to how we handle Leaving the EU without buggering up the livelihoods of those working rather than investing.
You predicted chaos that’s not happened. The doomsday scenarios predicted on here generally and specifically in my area have been miles away from reality. As I told you.
OK then, still not reading.
Problems - like those being forecast by the actual government now were predicted from the point the UK left the EU. The UK has not left the EU yet (Does this sound familiar?)
What is happening is broadly in line with what most of us predicted which was a hold on investment and uncertainty making things really difficult while big decisions were mostly put on hold. Something that will have a long term impact on the UK.
You told us all that despite nothing happening, lots of things were happening. Turns out nothing was happening and the government is way off the pace in both negotiations and preparations for what comes next.
THM promised that lots of grownups were negotiating behind the scenes and it was all going swimmingly. Well I suppose he can keep on with that fantasy for a few more weeks if he is determined to, but it's hard to square with the softening up of supposedly hard deadlines that we are now hearing about...
Dates moving? Which ones?
I have investment advice for you as well @chewkw, but am unsure how any of that helps the people I give a shit about living and working in the UK and EEA, working hard to improve their lives and ours.
This might be too general for many to consider but I am going to say it be flexible and adopt to change.
Does "flexible and adopt to change" include giving considerition to moving countries to follow work and opportunities. Because that's precisely what some of us are fighting to try and keep as an option for our friends and families.
Does “flexible and adapt to change” include moving countries to follow work and opportunities . Because that’s precisely what some of us are fighting to try and keep.
No, moving to another countries etc those are the prerequisite so very basic it is not even worth considering. No, I am not referring to movement of people like the EU bureaucrats have advocated.
Your industry is dying or slowing ...
Your industry is dying.
Which one? The UK was thriving in the EU, high tech manufacturing, big value add, good automotive investments etc. Even agriculture was going as well as it could be
No, moving to another countries etc those are the prerequisite so very basic it is not even worth considering.
And Brexit helps us to do that how? Thanks.
Your industry is dying.
And Brexit helps how? Thanks.
No you didn’t. You predicted chaos that’s not happened
Seems pretty chaotic to me, government still arguing with themselves about what they want to negotiate for. Tick tock tick tock.
No, I am not referring to movement of people like the EU bureaucrats have advocated.
Moving to a non-EEA country is a bureaucratic nightmare, from what I've seen. The EU reduces the barriers to movement A LOT. One of the reasons you seem to hate it. So… does the EU help us move between EEA countries, or make it harder to move… let us know what you think…
So do I put the rams in with the ewes and hope for the best, or sell all my sheep now while they still have a value and move back to Germany with my wife to mitigate the worst.
Bike park, obvs.
Of course I know what the dictionary definition of migrants vs refugees is. Telling them apart when you meet them is a whole different kettle of fish and this has been the debate amongst european leaders and our friends the ecj.
Then it's a practical issue not a moral or political one.
See link above on the EU taking legal action for member states not taking refugees. If they’ve done it before on refugees how do you think they would view it on the citizens of their own member states
Well the EU can only prosecute according to the law embodied in the treaties to which the countries have signed up. Hardly the actions of a mafia, is it?
I’ve gone over this and I think it was molgrips found the loophole whereby the UK could restrict based on a UK threat but realistically this won’t be used and would be blocked by the ecj in any meaningful numbers anyway
I also highlighted the bit about 'public policy'. To me that looks like you can set a policy on migration from the EU. But again you're arguing against the EU based on something you're guessing they'd do because you don't like them. Circular argument based on supposition.
But anyway - the argument has drifted towards what's wrong with the EU. This is actually subtly different to the question of whether or not we should leave. Being in has issues, but so does being out. Dickens does not seem to acknowledge any issues at all with being out.
Which one? The UK was thriving in the EU, high tech manufacturing, big value add, good automotive investments etc. Even agriculture was going as well as it could be
Do you still see many products that are "Made in the UK"?
It looks like very few products/items etc are left that have Made in the UK sign, which is also a sign of industry heading in the wrong direction.
It looks like very few products/items etc are left that have Made in the UK sign, which is also a sign of industry heading in the wrong direction.
Manufacturing has has been moving to low cost countries since the 70s. This has nothing to do with the EU and will not be solved by leaving. It may put the nails into the higher end that remains though
the UK is a service based country. Obsession with trying to move back to the past when the rest of the world has moved on is madness
Do you still see many products that are “Made in the UK”?
It looks like very few products/items etc are left that have Made in the UK sign, which is also a sign of industry heading in the wrong direction.
Depends what you are buying? Whats your exposure to the UK manufacturing sector?
No it’s not mike.
Econ data has been revised up in UK and down in EU area. Next year EU growth slowing while UK growth is picking up.
Gilt yields close to record lows allowing U.K. to bottom at attractive rates
Historicallu low UN rate, wages finally growing in t we terms
exceptionally low inflation - impact of £ deval now passed
consumer confidence recovered, manufacturing growth above forecast even construction is recovering
the Waterloo and city land Jubilee lines still packed in the morning indicating that the rubbish about the mass exodus of bankers was just that. This morning more news of French banks adding staff in London
If this is doom and gloom then let’s have more please
The UK is the 8th biggest manufacturer in the world and if pre-brexit trends continued (they haven't) we were on track to be 5th by the middle of the next decade. It makes 44% of exports, and the GVA reached an all time record immediately before the last recession- I don't think it's quite recovered to that level yet but it's not far off.
What we don't do, is employ that many people to do it- because of modern manufacturing and the nature of what we make which is mostly complex and high value- medicines being a good example.
Unfortunately, in June we had the biggest fall for 5 years, and the initial pessimistic predictions of a slow rebound have now been replaced with a 3 month fall in output.
If this is doom and gloom then let’s have more please
When did we leave the EU?
Also your post seems to have quite a lot of letters missing, do you need a new keyboard?
It looks like very few products/items etc are left that have Made in the UK sign, which is also a sign of industry heading in the wrong direction.
That's a simplistic outlook really.
Econ data has been revised up in UK and down in EU area. Next year EU growth slowing while UK growth is picking up.
1) So why's the Chancellor talking about an 8% hit in GDP in the event of no deal? You don't think there's ANY cause for worry? Ok so there might be positive scenarios but there might also be negative scenarios?
2) How much UK growth is driven by spending to mitigate the effects of brexit? Does anyone know?
Do you still see many products that are “Made in the UK”?
Every item of clothing I have on, from my shoes up… made in the UK. Yes, traditional manufacturing is increasingly offshored… but that's consumers choosing to accept that, based mostly on price. Now, why do you support nailing the coffin shut on UK manufacturing by reducing our home market from 30+ countries, to just a handful?
If this is doom and gloom then let’s have more please
Ahh… the "not as damaging as some predicted" gloss on our economy being held back by Brexit preparations.
Yes, traditional manufacturing is increasingly offshored… but that’s consumers choosing to accept that, based mostly on price.
Or maybe not being able to afford the choice. Bit of an insensitive post there.
Just realised my underpants were not made in the UK. Sorry for that. A mistake not a lie. Keep remembering there is a difference.
Bit of an insensitive post there.
Not at all. I did not critize buying based on price, just making it clear why people are happy to buy offshored goods instead of UK made ones, myself included.
With UK manufacturers losing straightforward access to the huge EEA market, I'd expect UK products to become rarer, and increasingly carrying a premium that most can't or won't pay.
Things would have to become pretty bad in the UK before it's cheaper to pay people to make low cost stuff here than in Bangladesh or China.
And there aren't that many people out of work. So people sewing t-shirts aren't available to make jet engines or medical equipment etc.
Of course I know what the dictionary definition of migrants vs refugees is
Well then.
You earlier asserted that the EU forces its members to take non-EU immigrants. Quote:
But the EU is still using its powers to force eu nations to take non eu immigrants as well.
When I asked for clarification, you posted a link to an article where a couple of Eastern bloc countries were being penalised for refusing to take in refugees.
So either you were lying then or you're lying now. Which is it?
Of course we should accept a limited number of refugees, we are a civilised society after all, but the scale of the problem is far more than we can take on (dozens of millions from all sorts of countries)
We took in 6,000 last year, and have 40,000 in total here. Source. That's not "dozens of millions," not by a long chalk.
The EU proposed a quota system in back in 2015 and guess what - we got to opt out of it. Source.
So your notion that the EU is forcing us to take in non-EU immigrants a) isn't referring to immigrants at all, b) doesn't apply to the UK and c) even if it did apply to the UK it would only be a fraction of a percentage of our migrant population.
At this point I'm starting to think that either you need to be a little more critical around what you hold to be facts, or you're just being wilfully disingenuous.
Not sure they are happy to buy rather than have no option to buy. the higher priced items. If they were richer and could afford and choose all UK made stuff I am sure they would be happier.
I put together a single-speed a few years back and tried to use all UK parts but it couldn't be done. Not sure how happy I was about it...
Every item of clothing I have on, from my shoes up… made in the UK. Yes, traditional manufacturing is increasingly offshored… but that’s consumers choosing to accept that. Now, why do you support nailing the coffin shut on UK manufacturing by reducing our home market from 30+ counties, to a handful?
I am surprised you can still find clothing made in UK but is the price for ordinary people? All the clothing I have are made from all over the world. Only my old factory outlet Karrimour jacket that is made locally. If I were to look at my office, living room or kitchen etc, all I notice are items so simple that are not even made in the UK. I do not object to imported goods but I just cannot understand why simpler products have to be manufactured elsewhere?
No, not shutting UK out unless the EU bureaucrats want to play dirty. As the newly elected Msia PM said recently if the West advocate free trade then be sincere to do so ... he was referring to EU. The world is watching EU's action against UK and learning ...
Check the source mol as historians say. Hammond has a specific agenda in the same way Bojo has/had
and his timing was no coincidence
talking of sources at least the moan rag that is the guardian did run a sensible article by Simon Jenkins which highlighted how ridiculous project fear II is worth a read
and it’s important. Why? Because we lost the debate because we are unable to explain clearly what the benefits of being a member of the EU were. Project Fear I and it didn’t work. We should have learned from the Indy debate on why that was a risky strategy. The worlds geopolitics is telling us clearly that negativity doesn’t work. People are searching for a brighter future even that provided by snake oil salesmen like salmond, trump and Farage
yet even now we keep abusing the Brexiters and pushing Project Fear II and wondering why this won’t work
ridiculous
Hammond has a specific agenda
Go on then what is his agenda - or your take on what it is?.
yet even now we keep abusing the Brexiters and pushing Project Fear II and wondering why this won’t work
Meanwhile, leading brexiters continue to propose contradictory solutions (when the propose anything) dismiss anything as "Project Fear" and complain that people are simply not getting on board without presenting anything to get on board of - it's like standing on the wharf selling tickets to the magical land and expecting people to walk onto your invisible ship.
Can we conclude from deep analysis of the situation that everything will be just fine after brexit? All the problems on the exceptionally long list will be sorted even though most have not been started and will take longer than the time available?
The worlds geopolitics is telling us clearly that negativity doesn’t work.
So we should just promise everybody everything and fuel it with hopes and prayers?
Hammond has a specific agenda
You'd hope he'd be attempting to benefit the country, but I expect you might be right, a shower of useless pricks the lot of them.
The worlds geopolitics is telling us clearly that negativity doesn’t work.
How does Trump or those Far right groups in Italy fit into planet positive?
In other news, we'll be OK because WTO, right?
It is “not realistic” to believe the UK can begin trading under World Trade Organisation (WTO) rules the day after Brexit in March, the head of the intergovernmental group has said.
“I was a trade negotiator; I negotiated trade deals my whole life and I’m very realistic about how fast you can go with those deals.” WTO director-general Roberto Azevêdo told the BBC’s Today programme.
“The moment that other countries begin to sense an opportunity to increase their market share or increase a quota here or there, they are going to go for that.
“There is going to be a lot of uncertainty here; there will be ... unpredictability and people who are making investments are going to take that into account.”
Most predictions about the impact of a no-deal scenario have been based on trading under WTO rules after Brexit, which is due to happen in seven months’ time.
But Mr Azevêdo said it was “very unlikely that you’re going to have a 100 per cent agreed outcome for all WTO members between now and March”.
Still, blue passports, eh.
I do not object to imported goods but I just cannot understand why simpler products have to be manufactured elsewhere?
They don't have to be, but if it's cheaper to do so, then many will be. Also, if you're going to manufacture here, it helps if your home market is bigger than just these wee isles.
No, not shutting UK out unless the EU bureaucrats want to play dirty.
The UK is shutting itself out of the EEA, with you cheerleading along. We'll still be able to sell to all those countries, but as a third country, not as if it was all part of our home market. That is not the same thing… it is more complicated, expensive, and slow.
Listen to this and try to tell me again the brexiters understood what they were voting for. They've had two years and they are still completely ignorant https://soundcloud.com/bbcradiokent/nodealbrexit-heated-debate
Oh, it gets better. Have a listen to this, it's priceless.
We've just passed a law prohibiting a border in Ireland. Unfortunately, WTO requires border checks. We've effectively just made it illegal for ourselves to trade under WTO.
Anyone have a brewery they need a piss-up organising in?
Hammond - pro Europe, soft as possible brexit
Both sides and both parties fundamentally split. Nothing new there. But it does make the “options were not on the ballot box” argument ridiculous - expect for the real intention of splitting the leave vote. That would only work if we put the various remain options on the ballot box too even the stupid ones like membership of the Euro and all that eventually entails. At least then both sides would be transparent and hopelessly split
trump, five star and salmond fit perfectly. Make up false stories of everything will be better...bingo. As the economist wrote a couple of years ago they only way to counter this is with a true positive narratives not project fears
But it does make the “options were not on the ballot box” argument ridiculous
So the government can't agree what Brexit means, but we know what we voted for? Right.
Propose an alternative to membership. Vote on it.
Already the case that membership of the Euro would require a further referendum.
Hammond – pro Europe, soft as possible brexit
Hmm. You're saying he's fearful because he's pro-Europe. But why can't it be the other way round? Why can't he be pro-Europe because he's fearful of the alternative?
I'm fearful because of the way things are being completely buggered up. You can't say that's unreasonable, can you?
But it does make the “options were not on the ballot box” argument ridiculous – expect for the real intention of splitting the leave vote.
Not ridiculous at all. There was no leave proposal on the table. None at all. So how could we have a meaningful vote on it when it didn't exist?
You'll say 'the vote was to leave' which I realise, but for that to be a viable question it should have said 'to come up with a proposal to leave'. You have to have an actual thing to vote for. Having a vote for the absence of a thing and then nothign else is stupid.
Imagine if we were trying to decide what to do on a Saturday. I could say 'Should we go to the zoo or not go to the zoo?' That makes sense as a question, but then you can't say 'ok our Saturday is settled, we are not going to the zoo' because then what ARE you going to do?