[Closed] EU Referendum - are you in or out?

or as a forward thinking globalised economy we can adopt the Kelvin as our standard measure of temperature.

I'd like that, but for real life temperature ranges, for most tasks, I accept Celsius works just fine.

The reason for the £35k limit is to exponentially increase the thickness of the glass ceiling for poor folks.

mattjg - Member

Scotland can go, can't drink oil.

Aye, Scotland is famous for not having enough water.

Water of rain, water of life...

Aye, Scotland is famous for not having enough water.

Doh.

Just read that EU money helped save the Transporter Bridge in Newport, I wonder how many landmarks, places of interest have been saved by that kind of assistance.

Kiss that goodbye then.

Just read that EU money helped save the Transporter Bridge in Newport, I wonder how many landmarks, places of interest have been saved by that kind of assistance.

Kiss that goodbye then.

You're still not understanding that "net contributor" thing then?

Go and multiply with yourself troll boy

You're still not understanding that "net contributor" thing then?

[i]The reason for the £35k limit is to exponentially increase the thickness of the glass ceiling for poor folks. [/I]

Ok, so no one is able to give an opinion of why the £35k (starting) limit is good?

I did think that maybe it's a cut-off when you're paying more in than taking out, but that doesn't really fit with the Govts' message regarding bringing in skills we need for business/Govt as fruit pickers and the like will earn nowhere near that.

C'mon Jamba/Ninfin, lets hear the Leavers view?

b r - poor immigrants are thieves and crims. Rich ones are fine and most likely white/western european.

just saying

Is that 35k limit going to be policy? Or is it just a Boris type made up piece of crap? Going to make getting in nurses or teachers almost impossible.

Going to make getting in nurses or teachers almost impossible.

Happening anyway. Deliberately.

= :87(

Hospitals already having to pay a big fat fee for the audacity of having to fill essential posts with non-EU staff… expect more of the same jingoistic nonsense for staff from all countries in a few years.

non-EU staff

Boris making a fool of himself again:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/11/boris-johnson-insists-russia-could-still-face-sanctions-colleagues/

He is now persona non grata with Russia, they won't take him seriously. He has blown his bridges with them by cancelling [a visit] for the third time.

Don't worry though Boris, Theresa is completely behind you:

Downing Street, however, insisted that Mr Johnson had Mrs May's full support.

Also, you need to be rich to keep your right to a family life now as well, if your partner happens to born elsewhere. Who really thinks that this will get better not worse from here on in? Only the deluded. Even the poor vote in huge numbers to make migration a rich person's privilege only.

Boris making a fool of himself again

It just looks like yet another example of the total fantasy world the Brexiteers seem to inhabit. In Boris's head Britain is a Global Superpower, and everyone is looking towards him to sort out the worlds problems.

And as with most of the delusional bullshit they've been spouting for the last year, no amount of reality, or evidence that uncomfortably contradicts their la-la-land vision, is allowed to intrude on proceedings

Anyone else cringing when the camera pans across the G7 foreign ministers and then you realise that Boris is there for us?

I understand the strategy that the ritual humiliation of Boris is aimed at neutering his Prime Ministerial ambitions, but the Maybot shouldn't leave him festering for too long.

It seems like everything that has happened in the last year, especially the whole Brexit catastrophe, has been dictated by internal squabbles within the Tory party, rather than the needs of the country.

In the total absense of an opposition, I can't see that changing any time soon.

Mind you... its all fun and games for them and their mates, isn't it? As with the banking crisis, they won't be the ones paying the price. Quite the opposite. Its a nice opportunity. And to hell with the little people. Ker-ching!

has been dictated by internal squabbles within the Tory party, rather than the needs of the country.

I dunno helping nudge from Putin's bots and the odd [url= http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/russian-interference-brexit-highly-probable-referendum-hacking-putin-a7472706.html ]Brexit[/url] vote [url= http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-39564289 ]hack[/url] and things have gone swimmingly, Russia's strongest critic ( yet biggest money launderer 😯 ) out of the EU our reputation in tatters and boom, no sanctions for Pooty (if only he could be sure he backed the right one in America)

but the Maybot shouldn't leave him festering for too long.

In other irony-news......

[url= https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/apr/12/boris-johnson-is-a-liability-for-britain-says-john-mcdonnell ]Boris Johnson is a liability for Britain says John Mcdonnell[/url]

While this is a statement of fact, just remind us which revered political heavyweight you'd be putting in place to regain this country's respect on the world stage, John? 😆

dissonance - Member

Why not? He will be a handy target to blame as she dives away from the mess.

Aye, because the prime minister's job is to avoid blame, not to run the country

just remind us John which political heavyweight you'd be putting in place to regain this country's respect on the world stage?

Well, she's good on her flag identification.

[img] [/img]

Just been having some dealings with my French bank. It reminds me of what I already knew, that French banks are absolutely and utterly incompetent (*). Anyone moving a financial operation from London to Paris would need their head examining. (Yes,I know - I just agreed with jamba)

(* e.g. I have been fruitlessly trying for over 18 months to get them to update my address so that the postman can deliver my credit card. It's not rocket surgery FFS)

If the address is not French I'm not surprised DrJ. It was getting so complicated we ended up with two accounts. An English one with a French address and a French one with a French address. One credit card for each country both delivered to France. HSBC seem to be better at this sort of thing than others but it still took about six months by the time both countries were satisfied with the paperwork (and a substantial sum on deposit for them to be interested at all). It's not a matter of competence but rules and you may be breaking one of the new anti-money laundering codes depending on where you make your money, pay your tax etc..

DrJ if you like you can see it as for once I am agreeing with you 🙂

I have worked for 3 Germans Banks but would not work for a French one. My French wife refused to work for a French Bank and chose an American one based in Paris. The French system including regulatory ebvironment is not one a foreign bank would chose for anything other than French business.

In other news Insaw today the Office for National Statistics published its first ever study into unemployment inc those economically inactive amongst EU nationals in the UK. What really stunned me was that it was their first, ie never done before !!

[i]C'mon Jamba/Ninfin, lets hear the Leavers view? [/I]

Still waiting...

Sounds to me like a soundbite with no substance, #typicalbrexitbollocks

£35k. Didn't see the earlier post. I think you've answered it yourself £35k is the income level where you pay enough tax to pay for the services you use. Anyway migrants earning less than that should be allowed on short term visas and/or their employers have to provide healthcare for example.

My salary was one key factor in getting a work visa for US and Singapore. Perfectly normal part of controlled imigration policies

What Jamba is saying br is you have to remember that the rules were only meant to apply to the little people.
And the best way to judge someone's worth is by their wallet.

Jamba:

What about the rather interesting points that

A) only allowing immigrants earning 35k only serves to strengthen the glass ceiling for UK residents earning less than 35k

B) a lot of the skills shortages we have are for jobs that pay less than 35k.

GrahamS - he's not daft he knows that. He's trolling again.

Meanwhile wages are on the cusp of falling again in real terms as inflation brought on by the £ collapse brought on by Brexit starts to bite.
Now there are arguments that inflation was too low - tell that to those whose wage is still lower than prior to the banking induced depression (and the half-arsed response in Cameron's first government - they killed the recovery Brown had initiated if you recall)

Corbyn will say today how Brexit will allow Labour to [b]upgrade[/b] the British economy

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/jeremy-corbyn_uk_58ef353ce4b0bb9638e16603?utm_hp_ref=uk

I think it is reasonable to question why a skilled job with a shortage of workers only commands a 35k salary.

GrahamS - he's not daft he knows that. He's trolling again.

Jamby really does think if you are rich you should have more than poor people in terms of basic freedoms.

Corbyn will say today how Brexit will allow Labour to upgrade the British economy

DOes this mean he is no longer old , a poor leader and with no vision?

One of your better pieces of satire/hypocrisy

Sorry my mistake I see why you gave it such a ringing endorsement

Under the plan, all companies bidding for government contracts would be required to give full trade union recognition to their workforce and move towards a ratio of 20-1 between their highest and lowest paid staff.

In other news Insaw today the Office for National Statistics published its first ever study into unemployment inc those economically inactive amongst EU nationals in the UK. What really stunned me was that it was their first, ie never done before !!

Why is it important? Why do we need to weed out those pesky foreigners?

£35k is the income level where you pay enough tax to pay for the services you use.

But even if you are earning less than that you are still contributing to the economy, aren't you? Most factory workers earn less than that but without them there's no manufacturing and our entire industry sector would collapse.

So just because we fund them doesn't mean they aren't contributing. Surely this is basic economics.

"I think it is reasonable to question why a skilled job with a shortage of workers only commands a 35k salary.."

International competition can be a factor. If wages rise jobs move. In due course the jobs move to the workers instead of the workers moving to the jobs. That's one of the flaws in thinking stopping FOM is going to fix the issue of immigration based wage competition.

molgrips - Member

So just because we fund them doesn't mean they aren't contributing. Surely this is basic economics.

Absolutely- the income level where your personal tax pays for the services you use is irrelevant. It's something people like to talk about because it suits the agenda that "most people are takers" but your value to society and to the economy simply isn't measured by the tax you pay.

That aside, it also falls down completely with immigrants because the lifelong services cost just doesn't apply to people who don't spend their whole lives here.

Yeah but leavers see it as a zero sum game. They don't understand how being a net payee can possibly still be a beneficial situation. They don't get for instance that off the economy contracts due to leaving that the fabled £350mm no longer exists to spend.

"I think it is reasonable to question why a skilled job with a shortage of workers only commands a 35k salary.."

More basic economics:

The price of a given product creates demand i.e. a market for that product. But the price of that product depends on the costs to produce, and that depends in part on the wages of the workers.

So whilst demand > supply increases wages, they can only go up so far before demand starts to go down due to higher prices.

So in many industries there is a demand for workers *at low wages*. E.g. if fruit picking paid £35k a year, fruit would cost a fortune, no-one would buy it then there'd be no-one planting it and no fruit to pick.

Where's THM with some jargon?

Do we need nurses? How many earn over £35k?

we're screwed.

This is before you look at different regions of the country.

Picking an arbitary number is a very stupid way to run an immigration policy.

Also have to consider that by devaluing the pound by c20% you have cut the wages of potential immigrants.

Presumably the rules can be juggled to meet the needs of certain employers or roles.

Your devaluation point is valid.

In other news Insaw today the Office for National Statistics published its first ever study into unemployment inc those economically inactive amongst EU nationals in the UK.

Got a Linky?

I'm looking at the [url= https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/bulletins/uklabourmarket/apr2017#economic-inactivity ]Economic Inactivity section of the April 2017 UK Labour Market bulletin[/url] and it doesn't break it down for EU nationals.

It should also be noted that the main cause of "economic inactivity" is being a student

[img] [/img]

which also happens to be a major reason for people coming to the UK ([url=file:///C:/Users/gbstegra1/Downloads/internationalstudentmigrationtcm77431150.pdf]192,000 student immigrants a year[/url])

Interesting to note that the 35K ceiling will also exclude all but the most senior post-doctoral researchers (i.e. researchers with a PhD but not yet running their own research labs).

Pay scales for these core roles is ~27K starting salary rising to 38K max and it is very, very difficult to obtain top end salaries on grant applications unless you have an existing named member of staff who is essential to the work.

More good news for science in the UK................