[Closed] EU Referendum - are you in or out?

I fear that you are wasting your time CountZero, but you probably already knew. Britain is the most multicultural and least racist country in Europe, possibly the world, but the Remainers want to pretend that Britian has suddenly been gripped by racism and xenophobia.

And yet we are supposedly leaving the EU over immigration issues...

It really is amazing how much BS our side is now coming out with

I am not on anyones' side (certainly not on the side of a May sympathiser thanks!)

So neither of you get my point, but that doesn't make it BS. If the remain MPs really, really wanted to remain they would have blocked article 50 (as 100 or so did). But instead they hardly put up a fight.

Why do you think that was?

Err, they are funded by the Klan?

Why do you think that was?

they care more about their jobs than the future of the country?

which is how we got in this whole mess in the first place...

Err, they are funded by the Klan?

So you haven't go any ideas then?

Obviously not, I stand down to your superior analysis.

Guardian piece on the Lords report. Some top quotes from an EU Official who gave evidence

It's not about the money"

Of course it's about the money. Didn't you see the bus 🙂

And yet we are supposedly leaving the EU over immigration issues...

We are leaving over uncontrolled immigration and the rights of any EU citizen to come here and to claim welfare / housing etc. The German's understand that which is why they are restricting welfare for 5 years for any non-German - something they can do as they have a different welfare system to us. Yes we could have changed ours in its entirety but that would be politically impossible.

Even though uncontrolled immigration has never existed.

Might've been a bit more sensible though Jam rather than rip the guts out of our economy and remove our rights...?

Kimbers I imagine UK MEP's inc Farage's pensions are a legal obligation of the EU. I would be stunned if they could withold it. Ditto all the Brits hired by the EU, its the EU who are their employers.

Personally I don't see how it would poison negotiations - the high alter priests of the EU have already been talking enough shite to have created that atmosphere already.

The EU 60th Anniversary Junket is going to be a sombre affair I imagine. May already declined her invitation:)

TMH of course it did. Arguing we had control because we can prevent entry to a person who poses an imminent security threat is daft. We can't even stop a person who has been deported for begging from re-entering.

@molgrips you have to understand I believe we are much better off economicaly outside the EU. Whatvwas the Referendum stat 87% of economic activity is domestic and we are a big net importer (making a virtue out of a vice 😉 ) As for workers rights May said they'll be protected whilst she's PM so just keep suporting her 😉

No it didn't. It doesn't matter how many times the lie is repeated,, it won't become true.

[i] If the remain MPs really, really wanted to remain they would have blocked article 50 (as 100 or so did). But instead they hardly put up a fight.[/I]

Got to agree with, it's the only 'logical' answer really since the majority voted for Article 50.

And as for "we don't have to pay", ok. Now what, since the negotiations might as well not happen and we'll just drop straight out ANY trade agreements and tbh the WTO countries won't trust us either so we'll get no concessions there. Bo11ock'd will be an understatement.

Although I for one will be arguing for Farage and Co. NOT to get any money and go sue someone (which seems, no one based on the article). 🙂

@molgrips you have to understand I believe we are much better off economicaly outside the EU.

That's not what I am hearing.

Mol, Jamba is only saying HE believes we'll be better off.

He's not saying anyone else believes it

As for workers rights May said...

El-bent - Member

I fear that you are wasting your time CountZero, but you probably already knew. Britain is the most multicultural and least racist country in Europe, possibly the world, but the Remainers want to pretend that Britian has suddenly been gripped by racism and xenophobia.

And yet we are supposedly leaving the EU over immigration issues...

Yeah keep the faith El-bent, Britain has suddenly been gripped by racism and xenophobia - it's the only explanation!

Just ignore awkward and inconvenient facts such as the fact that the BNP doesn't have one single councillor in the UK, a situation which is totally at odds with the political standing of the racist and xenophobic far-right in France, Holland, Italy, Germany, Sweden, Austria, etc.

It's interesting that some people who are so quick to denounce Donald Trump are capable of making such staggeringly stupid and false comments to suit their own agendas. We truly have entered the post-truth and knee-jerk "analysis" era.

A few pages back there was a link to detailed analysis of the vote and immigration was the top reason I seem to recall.

jam bo - Member

Why do you think that was?

they care more about their jobs than the future of the country?

So MPs voted to trigger article 50 because they were worried about losing their jobs next general election?!

This thread in many ways is the saddest thread but it still throws up much to make me chuckle 🙂

Yup, uncontrolled immigration. Australia takes twice the number of immigrants as does the UK and its populationnis 1/3rd of ours.

@b r indeed, maybe it is just me 🙂 molgrips even Osbourne's project doom said we would be better off outside the EU but that we would be less well off than if we stayed in. Even project fear and doom said the Economy would grow to be larger than it is now.

cchris2lou - Member

A few pages back there was a link to detailed analysis of the vote and immigration was the top reason I seem to recall.

Yes which proves that Britain is racist and xenophobic.........don't stop believing it!

I can't imagine what you think Poland is!

[url= https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/02/poles-dont-want-immigrants-they-dont-understand-them-dont-like-them ]'Poles don't want immigrants. They don't understand them, don't like them'[/url]

[b][i]"According to a study in 2013 by the Centre for Research on Prejudice – a professional academic centre at the University of Warsaw – as many as 69% of Poles do not want non-white people living in their country".[/i][/b]

Yes which proves that Britain is racist and xenophobic.........don't stop believing it!

I can't imagine what you think Poland is!

Are those two things linked in some way?

What a bizarre question.

But carry on believing that Britain has become racist and xenophobic (it clearly hasn't) if it helps you to deal with the wounds of losing the referendum - it makes no odds to me.

project fear and doom

Remind me was that the fear of foreigners campaign or the I fear if we cut a load of trade ties we're probably going to be worse off campaign.

Personally I asssociate project fear with the Brexies, but I think you double think it Jamba.

We didn't become xenophobic during or after the Brexshit vote, we always were. It had just been hidden well in the mutliculttual mirage of the UK. That we are less xenophobic and certainly less racist that other societies is comforting but tthat does not whitewash (sorry) away one of the most important drivers in the Brexshit campaign, All that happened was the opaque layer of what we hoped was our society was rolled back to lay bare a less attractive underbelly.

THM +1

THM +2 simple fact is a lot of us thought we were a better society than that and as THM states it was just an opaque layer...

I have heard more xenophobic and racist conversations in the last six months than the last six years. I have found it deeply unpleasant and no longer drink in certain pubs due to it but what can you do its the "will of the people" however karma will catch up with other all - always has always will.

Yeah keep the faith El-bent, Britain has suddenly been gripped by racism and xenophobia - it's the only explanation!

Just ignore awkward and inconvenient facts such as the fact that the BNP doesn't have one single councillor in the UK, a situation which is totally at odds with the political standing of the racist and xenophobic far-right in France, Holland, Italy, Germany, Sweden, Austria, etc.

It's interesting that some people who are so quick to denounce Donald Trump are capable of making such staggeringly stupid and false comments to suit their own agendas. We truly have entered the post-truth and knee-jerk "analysis" era.

And yet the politicians played the immigration card. It must have some substance.

I don't believe we are like Poland, or Hungary, or even Eastern Germany...places formerly under Communist rule that suppressed far right ideology, but we in the UK are collectively responsible for allowing those on the right to exploit the situation, which they have been doing for a long time before the referendum. We should have stamped on them.

You do seem a little sensitive over it Ernie...I have to remind myself that not everyone who voted to leave the EU were xenophobic, but they voted with those who were.

fear of foreigners campaign

[img] [/img]

^
Mephistopheles himself - quit apt given the meaning of the word: 'plasterer of lies'

We have had our own right wing in the uk for many years - Tory Party which had provided a "home" for the well educated right wing. Right wing working class has always been frowned upon by the well educated right who ultimately when it comes down to the wire will put money in front of deporting people, as working class right wing will deport folks who are supporting the lifestyles and businesses of the wealthy right wing Tories.

Simple economics nothing to do with racism as on the whole the wealthy right wing despise everyone else equally regardless of colour or origin.

At some point we need to recognise that the Brexit vote was largely split into three camps -

Wealthy- see an opportunity to make a lot of cash and pay less tax

Pensioners- want the 1950s and straight bananas

Poor working class - who want the foreigners out and £30k for driving a van.

Any of the above two can be mixed and matched.

Only the first group will fulfill there expectation.

THM +3

El-bent - Member

Yeah keep the faith El-bent, Britain has suddenly been gripped by racism and xenophobia - it's the only explanation!

Just ignore awkward and inconvenient facts such as the fact that the BNP doesn't have one single councillor in the UK, a situation which is totally at odds with the political standing of the racist and xenophobic far-right in France, Holland, Italy, Germany, Sweden, Austria, etc.

I don't believe we are like Poland, or Hungary, or even Eastern Germany...

But presumably you believe that we are like France, Holland, Italy, Germany, Sweden, and Austria, despite the awkward fact that we don't have even have a single BNP councillor in Britain and those countries have far-right MPs in their parliament. In two of those countries, France and Austria, they are making a serious challenge for the presidency.

Still, like Donald Trump you got an agenda to satisfy, so claiming any old bollocks whilst ignoring actual facts seems to be the way to go.

You do seem a little sensitive over it Ernie

😆 Why, because I occasionally point out that Britain is the most multicultural and least racist and xenophobic country in Europe?

Well if you want believe all this bollocks about the British suddenly becoming racist and xenophobic that's fine by me - I know that Britain has [i]never[/i] been less racist and xenophobic than it is today (although we should never stop fighting racism of course)

As I said to DrJ, carry on believing that Britain has become racist and xenophobic (it clearly hasn't) if it helps you to deal with the wounds of losing the referendum - it makes no odds to me.

despite the awkward fact that we don't have even have a single BNP councillor in Britain

Didn't they rebrand as UKIP?

Ernie - is Britain racist or not? To some extent yes and to some extent no. Is it more racist than many other places? No. Is it more racist than I thought it was? Yes.
And it is not about becoming racist, it is about underlying racism being revealed.
And as a white, English speaking, vaguely protestant type I don't like it. How some people on the receiving end feel... well how would I know?

PS - I assume this below is opinion as I have no idea what stats you'd use to back it up. And unless you've lived extensively across different parts of Britain and different parts of all the other countries in Europe, may I suggest it's merely assertion?

Why, because I occasionally point out that Britain is the most multicultural and least racist and xenophobic country in Europe?

despite the awkward fact that we don't have even have a single BNP councillor in Britain

And as a white, English speaking, vaguely protestant type I don't like it.

Well I'm speaking as a EU immigrant catholic. HTH

Ernie - thank you for making me smile.

Italy was more racist where I lived and when I lived there. Rural France has always seemed surprisingly tolerant but I can't speak for the cities. And maybe it's just the Germans I meet, but extremely tolerant I'd say. The Norwegians I knew were rarely sober enough to tell but that's students for you.

Why would folk go out and vote for a fringe party when they can vote UKIP instead ( 😆 )

Yeah because UKIP are doing so well that even their leader can't win a seat ( 😆 )

So now UKIP is the equivalent to the neo-nazi far-right in Europe?

OK, if that helps your simple take on things.

It's not about getting the most racist badge ernie, it's about the fact that hate crime is increasing, people seem to feel more comfortable expressing their views about foreign people etc.

I assume this below is opinion as I have no idea what stats you'd use to back it up.

No not an opinion, the claim that Britain is the most multicultural and least racist and xenophobic country in Europe is based on the fact that there no other country in more multicultural and less racist and xenophobic than Britain.

But I would be interested in your suggestions for that accolade.

Why, because I occasionally point out that Britain is the most multicultural and least racist and xenophobic country in Europe?

No, because you voted with the xenophobes, and its making you quite uncomfortable.

it's about the fact that hate crime is increasing

Undoubtedly. But if you were to get yourself a time machine and go back in time you would find that Britain has [i]never[/i] been less racist and xenophobic than it is today.

More hate crime doesn't necessarily mean more racists. And compared to some other European countries in incidences of hate crime are still [i]relatively[/i] low in Britain. Furthermore a 50% increase, for example, of a small figure isn't much.

Germany quite likes staying in the EU, it doesn't stop this though :

[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39096833 ]Germany hate crime: Nearly 10 attacks a day on migrants in 2016[/url]

Undoubtedly. But if you were to get yourself a time machine and go back in time you would find that Britain has never been less racist and xenophobic than it is today.