Forum menu
True, worrying story, but why is it the Brexshit thread? The article refers to something very different.
True, worrying story, but why is it the Brexshit thread? The article refers to something very different.
You need me to explain? Really?
the fact that capitalism and globalisation have achieved what Che Guevara and communism never could - the transfer of wealth from imperialist nations - is not lost on me and amuses me to no end.
Ah cr*p, bang go my socialist quasi-communist sympathies. Going to have to rethink (short and medium term) capitalism now!
Seriously though very good point Tom, and one I hadn't really thought of having been sucked into the whole Brexit depression. Is it simply the case that the recent isolationist/protectionist policies from UK, US etc. are just a weak kickback against globalisation and automation? A half-hearted attempt to stem the tide of a new world-wide society that threatens to knock the rich West off it's pedestal?
I really hope so, that would make the next ten/twenty year economic outlook a bit more palatable if only from the perspective of improving the lives of billions* of humans in developing countries.
*To the detriment of millions in the developed world, but then you can't make an omelette...
Have we now pretty much accepted that WTO is a non-starter 'option', plus the 27 know it too so lets just park it and properly analyse the only feasible options?
And quite an interesting article on import/export of actual stuff, ignore all the tariff stuff etc and imagine how they're going to re-instate all the checks and posts plus recruit and train the necessary manpower.
If we prevent the government from doing its job it will be the result.
At the moment we have eliminated EEA as it requires FoM, so we are going for bespoke deal pitched somewhere between FTA and CU.
The scare stories are irrelevant now. It's about making the best of the situation that is in front of us.
teamhurtmore - Member
If we prevent the government from doing its job it will be the result.
but the government arent doing their job
theyve assembled a crack team of delusional idiots obsessed with proving their own fantasies right
they arent listening to experts, they are stumbling into this blind
http://www.nature.com/news/delay-in-hiring-science-advisers-intensifies-brexit-worries-1.21511
brexshit is an exercise anti-intellectualism
No, WTO is precisely the starter option. We may be able to negotiate something better, but that's far from a given. There is such a gulf between the two sides that a 2 year negotiating period is going to be ridiculously inadequate.
My prediction is that the whole shebang will collapse in a heap of shit within months if not weeks. If the govt was remotely interested in doing its job (rather than pacifying the tory party) it would have called the whole thing off months ago.
Fixed
At the moment we have eliminated EEA as it requires FoM, so we are going for bespoke deal pitched at SFA...
Gosh how very cynical!!! 😉
Captain you are correct, nothing is a given, it's a............."negotiation"
That's why most of the current debate is simply hot air.
My concern is what happens when all this fails, Brexit is going to fail most of those who voted for it. It is certainly going to fail those who voted against it.
Shades of the Indy Ref coming up in Brexit Exit Bill headline ping pong. Seems there are €150bn of EU Assets the UK is entitied to it's share of. Not entirely sure what they are, a load of buildings in Brussels and Strasbourg aren't a lot of use to us. Also the matter of 150 odd Brits who work for various EU departments, they can keep them ! I see Junker is trying as hard as he can to divert the headlines from the €10bn pa budget hole the UK is going to leave.
My prediction is that the whole shebang will collapse in a heap of shit within months if not weeks. If the govt was remotely interested in doing its job (rather than pacifying the tory party) it would have called the whole thing off months ago.
Other views are available 8)
Jambalaya, would you be happy to see your children die in a european war? Your joyfulness at any issue seems to suggest you will only be happy when the EU collapses. History teaches that everytime this happens ends in European war.
Also the matter of 150 odd Brits who work for various EU departments, they can keep them !
And that displays how little you think of people, classy!
While you play your infantile one upmanship with the EU , the rest of us have to worry about the post brexit concerns of our sectors that the government are unwilling or incapable of addressing.
It's not just you though, social media is littered with comments from bigoted little englanders with no understanding of how the world actually works other than what they've been spoon-fed by the express, telegraph or farage.
Blimey kimbers 😯
Excellent article in today's FT by Jonathan Hill
1. Time UK politicians stopped talking only to each other and started speaking to rEU
2. Instead of rehashing old arguments, we need to spend more time thinking about the future - here business has been much quicker out of the blocks.
3. WEstminster needs to catch up
4. Every hour we are looking backwards is an hour not thinking about how to overcome the challenges and make the most of the the opportunities
5. MIxed messages from the UK, and the misunderstandings that are likely to flow from them, risk driving the negotiations off the rails (we all have a responsibility 😉 )
6. language matters, and the polarised nature of political and media debate is making things harder. EXagerated talk of triumph or disaster, of catastrophe or liberation, does not only make political solutions more difficult. It also gets in the way of our being able to work out intelligent solutions to the practical problems we are inevitably going to face
7. Where business leads (looking forward) politicians must follow
Well said that man
what happened to the £350m a week for the NHS ?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-39031546
I hope Boris gets reminded of it .
Blimey kimbers
Leaving euratom, losing the EU drug regulatory body, the loss of 10% of industry funding, the upheaval for thousands of EU researchers on the UK and vice versa
We were discussing collaboration with a group in Plon today but there's a big question mark about what that will look like in 2 years- visas, funding, etc,
We've been advertising a post since Xmas and fit the first time hardly any decent takers we are used to a steady stream of non UK applicants, usually from the EU, maybe nothing to do with Brexit but with
[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2017/01/25/number-eu-nurses-coming-uk-falls-90-per-cent-since-brexit-vote/ ]The big drop off in EU staff coming[/url] to the already overwhelmed and understaffed NHS- cancer ops ere being cancelled regularly.
Im starting to worry
Silence from the government on science post Brexit.
It's been 7 months now? I was hoping thered be some sort of a plan now for science instead brexies are just spouting the same gibberish Johnson said it was our Bre-entry into the world market yesterday or some such idiocy.
Vague assurances mean nothing when 20% of your team are from the EU
And remoaner guardian has just put up an article echoing what we are seeing all across the UK....
Brexit is too big for the government to handle IMHO
@THM - all that is well and good....
but for example, the government still hasn't lifted a finger to encourage highly skilled EU employees to stay here. It's like they just can't be bothered.
😯
teamhurtmore - Member
If we prevent the government from doing its job it will be the result.
Care to explain how once a 50. Is passed anyone can prevent the government doing its thing?
Care to explain how once a 50. Is passed anyone can prevent the government doing its thing?
https://www.rte.ie/news/2016/1209/837852-article-50-challenge/
I haven't heard where this case is currently?
LOL
Kimbers, looks like the LSE were right. Who'd have thunk it huh?
http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2015/12/05/debunking-the-myths-about-british-science-after-an-eu-exit/
Brexit is actually making me angrier now, now that the real impacts are actually being seen. I still can't believe some of my friends, one in particular, who was utterly adamant that the EU wouldn't punish us and we'd leave without consequence - she even called those who thought they would, delusional - "they need us more than we need them" and anyway "that would be nazish". She voted Brexit because she thought it would improve workers rights (she works for the NHS btw), it totes wasn't about immigrants guys.
Low and behold, we have Macron saying he wants to steal jobs from the city on the doorsteps of Westminster. The NHS is in total free fall. The government is attacking workers rights (pensions). Research funding is getting hammered. Fuel and food prices on the rise.
Now she claims that she is really surprised by all this, never saw it coming and says that she couldn't have known because she doesn't read or have the tie apparently to read as many varied papers as me.
Yeah, **** off. She was a good friend for a decade, but I wouldn't piss on her if she was on fire now.
Prevent? I want it to do its thing and quickly. Otherwise we end up with WTO.
Tom in what way is Macron behaving any differently from those who have been fighting the Paris/London war over financial services for as long as I can recall?
Still unresolved (the irish A50 case thing).
Prevent? I want it to do its thing and quickly. Otherwise we end up with WTO.
Which is why the A50 case is crucial to the outcome, if the negotiations go tits up there is a get out if Art50 can be withdrawn.
The amount of goodwill left will be less than nothing though.
What is the get out?
mrmo Peace has been maintained in Europe by NATO and the large numbers of US and UK troops stationed in Germany who 1) kept Russia at bay and 2) meant there was zero chance of German rearmament.
Chris, I already said the £450m a week to play with is going to come from budget savings and WTO tariffs. This is on top of matching all existing EU (ie our own money) finding. Maybe we'll even sell of our share of these £150bn of EU assets whatever they are.
@oldandpastit - to the contrary the govt has made it crystal clear all EU nationals can stay on the basis the EU offers the same (it has refused to do so far choosing to play politics with people). UK govt has done all that is reasonable. If some of these skilled people do leave I have no doubt what so ever the positions will be taken up by others at least as talented from outside the EU who in the past have been discriminated against.
The get out is where we are.
If TM is determined to screw the country and end up on WTO terms so be it, i doubt many will be particularly happy about that outcome.
I would suggest TM is like many politicians an opportunist, if she sees the negotiations going badly and likely to loose her her job, see her poll rating going through the floor she will consider options. This is one reason we actually need an opposition party to hold her to account and not to wipe her arse!
Don't forget that Iraq was actually supported, and the polls approved of Tony Blairs actions. You may not find many that would admit they thought it was a good idea now though.
The electorate can be very fickle. If TM boils the frogs slowly enough she might get away with it, but how far can she run down the NHS, social care, etc etc? Lots of balls to juggle and i don't think she is capable.
Cheer for the link Tom
tallies with just what we are seeing
sadly, Brexies have abolutely no answer to this, the added value of collaboration with our nearest neighbours is something they just dont understand
all they can come up with is fantasy numbers like an extra 450m a week 🙄
Sorry mrmo, you have lost me there
no Jambalaya , the £350m a week was from what the UK supposedly gives to the EU , not extra .
Have you already forgotten that red bus ? guess what , looks like it is coming back to bite you in the ass ! 😉
mrmo Peace has been maintained in Europe by NATO and the large numbers of US and UK troops stationed in Germany who 1) kept Russia at bay and 2) meant there was zero chance of German rearmament.
And foreign occupation, why should Germany accept it? UK France has history, UK opened fire on Icelandic fishing boats, who would have assumed killing a minor royal would lead to millions of deaths. Spain has history regarding Gibraltar.
Russia have deployed new nukes in contravention of treaties. the US who knows! If Russia wants to "improve" access to Kalingrad then what?
History tends to show that little things have a habit of snowballing, and not in the intended way.
THM, basically TM will go with the wind. If she thinks she is going to loose she will change tack IMO.
I hope so, it's her responsibility to get a deal and she will need to be flexible
I hope so, it's her responsibility to get a deal and she will need to be flexible
Problem being that as far as I can see she is prioritising a deal that keeps the Tories in power not one that benefits the country.
mrmo Peace has been maintained in Europe by NATO and the large numbers of US and UK troops stationed in Germany who
What is your problem with German rearmament?
Tom_W1987 - Member
mrmo Peace has been maintained in Europe by NATO and the large numbers of US and UK troops stationed in Germany who
What is your problem with German rearmament?
I am going to answer ...
The answer is Nothing, No problem whatsoever.
IMO Germany can rearm themselves to the hilt if they wish then start WWIII if they wish coz I totally support that.
However, since they started then lost WWII they need to pay for their past actions as long as they can endure and as long as the Victors can punish them for. i.e. ... might as well take Victors' rightful opportunity while the opportunity is still there. Nothing personal ... just taking advantage of being a winner coz they were/are the loser.
As for fearing Russia ... like I say many times, only fool(s) would invade Europe to feed you lot ... Russian population is simply not large enough to contain entire Europe. The only way to invade Europe is to wipe out their population to be replaced by the Russians. Even at the peak of USSR their population was only 200 million plus while the entire EU now is over 500 million. It would be silly trying to feed EU when Russia cannot even feed their own properly.
Therefore, this Russia bogeyman thing is pointless really.
However, they might stir things up a bit at the boarder but that's just child play and peanuts.
However, since they started then lost WWII they need to pay for their past actions as long as they can endure and as long as the Victors can punish them for.
In that case, we should still be punishing France for Napoleon, the yanks should be punishing us for the War of Independence and about 1/3rd of the worlds countries should be looking to collectively punish us.
😀
But Brexshitters fly into an indignant rage if you mention colonial reparations....
Tom_W1987 - Member
In that case, we should still be punishing France for Napoleon, the yanks should be punishing us for the War of Independence and about 1/3rd of the worlds countries should be looking to collectively punish us.
Ya, but you (referring to victors) gave up that chance when the opportunity presented to you silly goose. Missed such a good chance.
However, the French got back their "dignity" when they helped the yanks to kick the Brits out of USA, thus restoring their pride.
No colony will be able to do the "reverse takeover" but the Yanks could (just about) yet did not because they are you (same blood).
Besides, why should the yanks want to take over BritLand again when the reason for them going there (USA) in the first place is to escape BritLand ...
😛
But Brexshitters fly into an indignant rage if you mention colonial reparations....
The rule is simple. Winner takes all so set the rules. Losers obey or disappear. Sometimes you win sometimes not which is a rule that is applicable to both sides.
the banks in the city of London are all making their plans to leave the UK as they will have to. another huge loss and own goal for the leavers. Thats the bit of our economy that stop us havig a huge balance of payments issue going
another thing predicted by the remainers, denied by the leavers, now happening
HSBC 1,000 roles confirmed to Paris – half of them returning French nationals.
Goldman Sachs 3,000 roles rumoured to be going, some to Frankfurt.
JP Morgan 4,000 roles could go, the bank has warned.
UBS 1,000 of 5,000 jobs will go to Frankfurt or Madrid, according to head of UBS’s investment bank.
Morgan Stanley 1,000 roles rumoured to be under threat.
[b]chewkw[/b]: [i]IMO Germany can rearm themselves to the hilt if they wish then start WWIII if they wish coz I totally support that[/i]
Do we have to put up with this guy on this forum?
Chewkbot is a burden we all have to bear
[quote=kimbers ]Chewkbot is a burden we all have to bear
unless you have blocked him. Then you just get obscure isolated quotes from those who rise to his trolling. It is quite amusing reading these snippets though.
Jambalaya - memberIf some of these skilled people do leave I have no doubt what so ever the positions will be taken up by others at least as talented from outside the EU who in the past have been discriminated against.
The situation right now is that recruiting from the EU is now really hard (all our current EU people are looking very nervous) while recruiting from outside the EU is a total PITA. TM isn't about to make immigration easier....
I imagine that post-Brexit, recruiting from *anywhere* will be the same hugely burdensome process.
@tjagain - surely banks leaving London will be a net positive?
- house prices in London become more affordable
- less pollution
- no need for new runway at Heathrow
- end of North/South divide
- safer roads
- no more annoying hipster fintech startups
- valuable lesson learned by UK electorate
What's not to like?