[Closed] EU Referendum - are you in or out?

I think we ALL have a clear responsibility for making Brexshit work.

Panic.

European car manufacturers have far more production capacity than they need and PSA will probably want to consolidate its factories if it acquires GM Europe.

Vauxhall's factories in Ellesmere Port and Luton are both very efficient, but they could face export tariffs when Britain leaves the single market, and probably the customs union, in two years - making those plants unviable.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39016604

It was the most important issue for those who won the referendum and voted to Leave

It was? How do they know? I mean, there was a lot of talk by the leave campaigners, but how do we know it was actually the majority view?

I only agree I have to help make it work as I have no choice (well I actually do I can sell up and **** off - which I have considered) I don't know if I can be comfortable with the divisions that are coming (yes I know closet socialism) I can remember life in a working class house in the 60s it was pretty shit and I think people forget how far we have come just in simple term a washing machine cost a months wages, hardly anyone from the working class went uni - slightly abstract but quality of life and opportunity in this country is pretty good, just not sure it's going to stay that way for poor folks.

Reading?

And they're getting windy there.

http://www.getreading.co.uk/news/reading-berkshire-news/nearly-20-per-cent-readings-12589682

😉 should have been lower case!!! 😀

Good link though!!

I don't believe I have any obligation, moral or otherwise, to try to make it work, any more than the kippers have an obligation to "respect" the 1973 referendum. When did that obligation end BTW?

I'll be ok personally but it will screw up the lives of a lot of friends and colleagues and I will take every opportunity to oppose and frustrate the brexit at any cost brigade. I may lose, but not without a (metaphorical) fight.

Enjoy

Using their economic power is the way people protest whether consciously or subconsciously.

Take the behaviour of our little family unit since Brexit. Some of it a deliberate raising of a digit, some of it fear, some of it throwing in the towel.

Madame has organised a school trip to the UK for the last 10 years. This year's trip has been cancelled.

I had a planned trip to the UK, I didn't go as the last time I took a French registered car to the UK in a period of tension (mad cow disease) I suffered road rage. The number of French people doing research on holidays in American and booking them has fallen significantly since Trump's election. The low pound should be boosting tourism, it did initially last Summer but by the Autumn it was down.

I transferred funds from The UK to France in the run up to the Brexit vote and more when the result came out. German and French institutions have more of my money to look after - I have more faith in the Euro than the pound despite your pessimism.

I do nothing to be enthusiastic when people ask advice about the UK. Pre June 23 I used to be quite a good ambassador for the UK, advising people on interesting things to do and places to visit.

I'm still using CRC but when the pound effect goes as it must when they buy new stock will I still buy from them? I have no idea of what the people at Rab and Buffalo think of Brexit but just the fact they are based in Sheffield makes me think that UKIP Brexiters will probably dealing with my order if I buy from them. I'm not sure I want to be seen with a British label, it's just not chic anymore.

With friends like this, who needs enemies?

With friends like this, who needs enemies?

You've hit the nail on the head. That's what Brexit has made many Europeans think of the British.

The anti-European propaganda in the British media made it to our media - it wasn't nice.

Report of our nationals being abused and insulted in Britain post Brexit made it into our media. It's clear we Europeans aren't liked or welcome.

Clear as mud?

Teamhurtmore you are presenting a combination of your interpretation of the situation and your opinion as fact. Its a pragmatic and sensible assesment but not clear 1+1=2 type fact.

Molgrips argument is not really incorrect, technically yes there is a difference between membership and access. Still though the scenario vote leave presented was tariff free trade with the eu and an end to freedom of movement in tandem, doesn't look like that will be achievable so therefore any mandate TM claims to have been given is not a definite.

Its perfectly possible to accept the mathematical result of the referendum but question the mandate that the govt claims it has. They're different things.

Its also possible to 'get on with things' and have a good remoan at the same time. Thats what i'm doing. Software industry recruiter by day, remoaner by night (well just when i've got a few minutes to sign a petition, stir the pot in comments sections and forums, support the lib dems etc. actually but hopefully you get my point)

Edukator - Reformed Troll... Reformed ?

I really dont see this Edukator my family is French I only watch French TV I work with French and Expats, The attitude is if its what the Brits want let em get on with it, The French are far from happy with Europe they Know its a mess and a large number would like their borders back and more protectionist government.

I see very few if any any news articles about Brexit, There is far more to worry about with the explosive situation in Paris and the general feeling of insecurity.

We had a recent show where the Notaires society of France turned up to reassure British people that they would still be welcome after Brexit and still able to buy property here.

Sorry bill, but mol's comments ARE factually incorrect with the latest one being confusing what options FoM affects and which ones it doesn't. This is where 1 + 1 does equally 2 not the 6 that mol seems to believe.

Ditto, the difference between membership of and access to is not technical it is FUNDAMENTAL. If that is not understood, futherdebate is impossible/pointless. You might as well debate how good a tomato is for calculating the diameter of a circle.

I admit, I do have the odd moan while getting on with things too. However, my main complaint for now is the BS being used to reject the result of a democratic vote. That's very poor,

However, my main complaint for now is the BS being used to reject the result of a democratic vote. That's very poor,

My main complaint is a vote based on lies and racism, and i am not talking about a few months, i mean 40 years of BS. Democracy needs truth to function without it you have nothing.

I think we ALL have a clear responsibility for making Brexshit work.

Why ? A decision of political expediency by Mr Cameroon to keep the Tory party in power (which was probably never in doubt) has landed us in this mess. So you want us to help Dirty digger get Sky on the cheap and create a land of milk an honey for Hedge funds managers and tax exiles. Quite frankly **** that for a game of soldiers I'm out. I've got a telephone interview for a position in Barcalona Tuesday and face to face in Berlin the week after.

Good luck.

thanks 🙂 I'm still puzzled as to why you think we should help make a success of something which is such folly 😕

The nature of "the folly" is in our hands - we can take responsibility for what happens next. Simple.

Indeed. Though what happens next need not be triggering a50.

[img] [/img]

we can take responsibility for what happens next. Simple.

Is there a nicer version of rabid thick xenophobic racist **** out there thats worth putting the effort in for ?

I think we ALL have a clear responsibility for making Brexshit work.

Those in the civil service have a responsibility to make Brexit work for the UK.
The rest of us just have to try and make it work best for our companies & families, and for ourselves.
That is far from the same thing in many cases.

We'll all make adjustments to take advantage of the changes ahead, but that doesn't stop up us from saying that we'd be better of staying in the EU… or that when we leave the EU we shouldn't make it any harder than possible to trade with the remaining members… or that restricting freedom of movement and refusing to accept external court judgements will reduce the quality of all our lives greatly, and completely mess up the lives of those that straddle country borders.

Should the country as a whole be given a chance to think again, once they see the exit deal?

Ah kelvin, so are you coming round to the notion of "there is no such thing as society"?

I agree that we would have been better of staying in the EU, but we lost that argument didn't we? Keep fighting that fact if you want, but IMO that is a waste of time.

Ah kelvin, so are you coming round to the notion of "there is no such thing as society"?

Nope, just that I know what my job is, and it has nothing to do with "making Brexit work" I'm afraid.
Just like it isn't my responsibity to remove Billy Blogg's expendix, that's down to his surgeon.
I do pay toward the NHS.
I also pay towards those working in the Civil Service.
I don't do their jobs, nor would I, and no doubt nor could I.

It is not the responsibity of "ALL" of us to make Brexit work, we'll just get on with our lives, and adapt.

Oh, and take any opportunity presented to us to stop it happening. No chance of facilitating something we think should not happen. Leave that to the poor sods working for the government.

Well that's a good start

FWIW, the world will be a very different place by 3/19 and the EU, is if nothing else, a creation of compromise. IMO, the end place will not be that far from where we are now albeit that I fully expect the EZ to be very, very different - most likely non-existent in relation to its current form.

[img] [/img]

I think we ALL have a clear responsibility for making Brexshit work.

If a bunch of morons vote to shit their pants I have no responsibility either to shit my own pants in solidarity, or to help them clean themselves up. I'm perfectly entitled to just point and laugh.

I'm perfectly entitled to just point and laugh.

bordering on civil disobedience that!

Anyone know what the ridings like around Annecy ?

Leavers sweating - petition to gov't to nationalise Vauxhall

I’ve made a petition – will you sign it?
My petition:
The Government to Intervene in the possible Sale of Vauxhall by General Motors.
Government to intervene in the possible sale of Vauxhall to PSA and and part Nationalize Vauxhall with the balance of the company going to an investor or investors. This could hopefully safe guard jobs, with the ultimate aim of producing a range of car's in the UK that could be sold worldwide.
Vauxhall Motors are the oldest automotive brand making cars and van's in the Uk, with the first car launched in May 1903 and the first Bedford Truck in 1931, production starred at Luton in 1905 and GM brought the company in 1925. Substantial growth in the last 114 years has allowed them to become the no2 best selling car in the UK and largest manufacture and exporter of commercial vehicles. 35,000 people are associated with Vauxhall with 4,500 Ellsemere Port and Luton alone.

no a chance of that happening .

I think I read that 82% of Vauxhal produced in the UK are exported .

wicki - Member

We had a recent show where the Notaires society of France turned up to reassure British people that they would still be welcome after Brexit and still able to buy property here.

Whereas the UK government seems to be completely indifferent to how EU citizens feel here. I think a lot of them feel pretty rejected.

Could be good for salaries for the locals though if all the skilled EU workers go and find somewhere nicer to live.

You've hit the nail on the head. That's what Brexit has made many Europeans think of the British.

Short memories.

There is among my colleagues/peers/associates a consistent attitude of "* em they voted for it and during this process we will take advantage of this and them in any way we can"

Depressions/recessions regardless of origion always create "hire and fire, zero hours, gang master" environments for low skilled people.

I have asked many times on this forum for a practical list of the things that will improve the lives of these people post brexit (I also asked my local rabid Tory MP the question to his face in the local pub) and you know what with all due respect to Ninfan/Jamba and Rishi Sunak the response has been we have "endless opportunities" what I want is a granular list of opportunities- nothl the over arching US Australia NZ India markets bollocks. Much of the industry based here is not owned by the UK and worse we are reliant on Toshiba and the French (FFS) to build our nucler plants.

There are times in your life wether you are a country a business or an individual that you just need to keep your head below the parapets, I understand Spain Greece Italy etc have bigger problems but this was not the time to take a bullett by stepping outside the herd and making ourselves a target. Does anyone on this forum really think that the rest of the world gives a * about us- I have US business acquaintices and trust me the special relationship only exists as far are as golf courses and cash cows. They the Brexiteers are post truth delusionits.

Oh no my mate Bob who wants a £30k fork lift truck job (that's why he voted brexit) has just been told his £18k fork lift truck job is being made redundant - but no sweat plenty of minimum wage jobs in tye north. FFS people we need to stop talking bollocks and focus on keeping people paid and in work rather drawing red lines over an immigration issue that actually barely exists.

Could be good for salaries for the locals though if all the skilled EU workers go and find somewhere nicer to live.

why? all the unskilled jobs piggy-backing off the skilled immigrants will vanish...

Oh no my mate Bob who wants a £30k fork lift truck job (that's why he voted brexit) has just been told his £18k fork lift truck job is being made redundant - but no sweat plenty of minimum wage jobs in tye north. FFS people we need to stop talking bollocks and focus on keeping people paid and in work rather drawing red lines over an immigration issue that actually barely exists.

Yeah, I know a few people in similar situations.

I laughed.

I'm perfectly entitled to just point and laugh.

Oh no my mate Bob who wants a £30k fork lift truck job (that's why he voted brexit) has just been told his £18k fork lift truck job is being made redundant

Kelvin, sorry didn't answer your question about second vote and then went out to play tennis

A moments conaideration highlights why a second vote is (a) pointless and (b) counter-productive

One month to go, more or less ? Personally I am planning quite a party. Champagne corks over the Hampshire Countryside.

A second vote, tha's clutching at straws. Each one with Tony Blair's name on.

Kelvin you have my plan for £450m a week plus maintainence of all existing "EU" funding (ie 60% of our oen money back)

Edukator your post and the annecdotes simply cement our resolve. School trips are organised to the UK as kids want to improve their English as it's the business language of the world. That is basically my point with Brexit, we have always been a globally focused nation and it's time to reinvigorate that. If we do end up with WTO tariffs the French are going to be mightily hacked off. We'll have piles of manure on the Autoroute never mind the current dentist's strike due to cuts in Government funding.

The point I am trying to make is that the leave campaign has statements promising tariff-free access to the single market.

@molgrips my point is that we will (imo) have tariff free access to large parts of the single market (including auto manufacturing) and services (tariff free under wto the argument is about regulatory access to financial services) .. we will (imo) have tariff free access the the areas of mutual benefit (inc autos)

Could be good for salaries for the locals though if all the skilled EU workers go and find somewhere nicer to live.

You assume that the locals can do the jobs, bluntly many of those who are unemployed are unemployable. Some people are capable and "luck" hasn't been with them i will accept. Too many expect a decent job and won't put in the effort to get it.

Those leaving will simply take the work with them leaving nothing behind.