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"we haven't helped ourselves by encouraging/celebrating the overthrow of a democratically elected government, we don't happen to like."
This.
The population is split almost down the middle
Bit like the UK then. Just a thought.
jambalaya - Member
Remain's economic project fear has been totally shredded.
While the Brexy project fear foreigners lives on.
Actually it's not shredded and it wasn't fear anyway as you well know. It was and is a fairly reasonable economic prediction. But if you will keep trotting out the same line, who am I to stop you?
At the EU summit in Malta May will update the EU on her meeting with Trump and his goal to have European nations meet their NATO 2/20 spending targets. Germany alone is €30bn per anum below target. EU NATO members are in a very weak position
Sounds like that's not going too well. Poor May. Humiliated by Trump last week after she tried appeasement, potentially humiliated by the EU this week. Not a job I'd want.
Any Leave proponents fancy paying my next gas and electric bills… and all my other rising costs?
Why would they fancy doing that?
Conducting a relatively low intensity war on the periphary of Europe, is a lot different to being able to mount and sustain an armoured operation on ta level not seen since WW2. Russian hardware is ancient, lots of it unreliable and their economy wouldn't be able to sustain a fight like that.
Again, its usually Brexiteers who think that the EU would fall passively, the European Air Group has 2.5k military aircraft alone. Russia has an airforce with utterly woeful servicability rates, they could barely operate three aircraft at any one time from their carrier.
It sounds to me that now's the time to attack and invade Russia. What could possibly go wrong?
Well Ernie, that is about as realistic as Russia reaching Paris.
I like. 😉It sounds to me that now's the time to attack and invade Russia. What could possibly go wrong?
But for clarity, Russia isn't going to start any direct confrontations with the EU/Nato. The cost to them(and us) would be too great, they will go at it asymmetrically. They've done a good job so far with Trump.
This is one the things that Brexshitters fail to understand, they see the EU merely as a financial transaction, and completely ignore that by leaving we are going to go swimming with the sharks...who will use our "free trade with the world" rose tinted spectacles against us for purely political and ideological purposes.
Goodbye the supposedly regained sovereignty.
But I guess these people have to be eaten alive before they can learn its not good for them.
Russia cannot afford to go to war with NATO or the EU.
Obviously.
So breaking both up, by any means, is Putin's priority, don't we think?
Back to Brexit…
Precisely Kelvin. Both Trump and Putin see a divided Europe a better money maker for them.
From the readers' comments in the FT. Sadly funny...
Our brexit /which art uneven/ hallowed be its blame/ our serfdom near / our will be clear/ as a wrexit heaven/give us this day our daily gruel/ and forgive us our nationalism/as we condemn all foreigners among us/ and lead us not unto Brussels/ but deliver us unto the Donald/ for he has the story/ the power and the Tory/ for ever and ever/ We Won! Get over it!... the wrexiters' prayer -- latest update complete with new added muddled thinking ( only the one glass of wine...promise ).
I posted this in Corbyn thread but some good comments on Brexit IMHO
Good piece on Labour from Lisa Nandy, Labour should be a party of patriotism not placards
http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/uk_5895fdf6e4b0a1dcbd029a2a
I recall some posters suggesting Le Pen was no longer proposing France should hold an EU Referendum. I didn't bother to respond but her speech here covered by Channel 4 News is pretty clear - a Referendum within 6 months of her being elected
Genuine question here.
What can the people of Britain pressure the government to change in our favour after Brexit, financial or otherwise?
Should imagine banks/financial institutions, influential industries, wealthy investors etc are brown enveloping their want's to their Tory mates, the peasants being last on the list.
Cancelling Brexit, IQ tests for voting rights, alternate working rights for northerners and any other smart arserie is of course welcome 🙄
What LePen is saying is that she wants to renegotiate the EU deal for France. If it fails she will ask for a referendum
wonder if I'd be better off asking Le Pen for a Yorkshire referendum.
At the EU summit in Malta May will update the EU on her meeting with Trump and his goal to have European nations meet their NATO 2/20 spending targets. Germany alone is €30bn per anum below target. EU NATO members are in a very weak position
Whilst we have two entire carriers to fill with planes. Three delivered so far.
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At the EU summit in Malta May will update the EU on her meeting with Trump and his
Bonus points to whoever shouts "say it again like you mean it" or perhaps they will all just laugh.
What can the people of Britain pressure the government to change in our favour after Brexit, financial or otherwise?
The holes that Brexit opened up in our economy/society.
1) Investment in skills
2) Investment in industry
3) And the usual investment in infrastructure
You could easily meet all three in the same projects.
Whilst we have two entire carriers to fill with planes. Three delivered so far.
Well, in our defence, the same country whinging about European NATO contributions is the one responsible for our aircraftless carriers
Mol, you still seem to be labouring under the idea that Brexshitt had something to do with economics.....
I thought our carriers were going to be used as a mini-cab service for US aircraft.
You could easily meet all three in the same projects.
War?
"we haven't helped ourselves by encouraging/celebrating the overthrow of a democratically elected government, we don't happen to like."This.
Hitler was democratically elected, as it has to be remembered is Putin.
Does that mean that we should be nice and just accept them? That there is never a concern that needs to be addressed?
Well, in our defence, the same country whinging about European NATO contributions is the one responsible for our aircraftless carriers
No, I'm pretty sure that's entirely our honour. We sold them our upgraded Harriers in a bulk deal, ironically to tide them over till the F35B was delivered.
Don't the French have a few aircraft compatible with our carrier? Or am I recalling that incorrectly?
Jambyaayr I think that was me suggesting that, but Le-Pen has doubled down on this now so I was wrong.
Meanwhile how does this fit with the "post brexit project fear"?
No, I'm pretty sure that's entirely our honour. We sold them our upgraded Harriers in a bulk deal, ironically to tide them over till the F35B was delivered.
We actually got rid of the good harriers (the SHar2) for no good reason at all.
But it's still the Seppos' fault that the F35 doesn't work.
Some more details of the referendum voting, including by ward (spreadsheet link at bottom of page) if anyone is interested.
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38762034 ]Local voting figures shed new light on EU referendum[/url]
Have we done Channel Islands yet. Currently not part of UK or the EU yet they are within the common travel area and the customs union. They wish to retain their status quo which is free movement of goods but not people, and not capital.
[url= https://blog.gov.je/2016/09/29/planning-for-the-best-possible-future-for-jersey-after-brexit/ ]States of Jersey blog[/url]
[url=manager/news/how-are-the-channel-islands-dealing-with-brexit/a937107]citywire [/url]
How about Nigel, a true European . 😆
Hitler was democratically elected, as it has to be remembered is Putin.
Hilter had already banned the communist party by the time he perhaps got elected. The 1933 election was held after the Nazis had seized power and a few days aftrer the orchestrated Reichstag fire - Googel it. As for Putin, the serious opposition was all in jail or dead before the last couple of elections.
If those are your examples of democratic examples we don't have the same idea of democracy.
Apparently he used the Reichstag fire to persuade Hindenberg to arrest KPD members and "suppress" the communist votes. There were still votes cast for them in the election, though not as many as might have been.
After the election all other parties were dissolved.
Mean while those of us in the Freeeeee Yorkshire party (regionally know as the How Much! Party) are the only people with a sensible agument for anything at all. We certainly are not planning to send the forces of penny pinching to invade Lancashire or any other of the lesser counties in the misguided UK.
I say again Free Yorkshire (an it better be cheap).
Crikey you lot are going into overdrive regarding some bogeymen. 😆
There will be NO war with Iran, Russia, EU, USA, China, North Korea or Taiwan ... Will never happen. Posturing, yes, just to scare the shite out of those fake news people or simply to sell more newspapers or reporters trying to justify their salaries.
The only war you have is the brainwashed fake news lot feeding the newspaper reporters trolls. The more the news trolls the population, the more dramatic they become, the more justification for their existence. More money.
Who the hell on this earth is so stupid to want to invade EU? Nobody wants to feed the EU lot if that makes sense. They have no natural resources or even if they have they are in limited ways, they are more trouble to have ... no peace of mind even for the potential invader especially the constant hand bags throwing. I mean are those EU people really productive? Some maybe from the former Eastern block nations. Generally most of the wealthy EU states are just feeding on the poor former Eastern block labour by pretending to help them. Hardly worthwhile to invade ...
Like my Taiwanese friend once said ... If China surrender to Taiwan, Taiwan would instantly disappear from this world. No bullet needed at all.
The EU lot is more of a burden then benefits. Russia with their vast land would have much more freedom then the EU lot who needs to rub shoulders to shoulders just to earn a living so tight ... Russia might be less wealthy but freedom is not defined by wealth is it?
😆
If those are your examples of democratic examples we don't have the same idea of democracy.
and what percentage of the UK population voted for the Tories? What percentage voted for Trump.
both won their elections.
And the Nazi's were the largest party after the 1932 elections. They just used there mandate well.
If those are your examples of democratic examples we don't have the same idea of democracy.
I think what he's saying is that simply having an election doesn't mean good governance and it certainly doesn't make the outcome the right one.
Weird pro Putin line from our favourite STW forum bot. Cross infected by a Russian hacker?
What can the people of Britain pressure the government to change in our favour after Brexit, financial or otherwise?
The holes that Brexit opened up in our economy/society.1) Investment in skills
2) Investment in industry
3) And the usual investment in infrastructureYou could easily meet all three in the same projects.
People voted for Brexit partly because of those holes.
Agreed all of that list should be part of our post Brexit world and wouod actually nitbhave been possible within the EU as all the investment wouod have been blocked by state aid rules and of course the jobs/apprenticeships would have had to have been offered to any EU citizen.
@chestercopperpot Educational/ IQ test for voting ... how about Mensa level or postgraduate degrees only 😉 ? Democracy isn't dead for you eh ?
What the educational divide in the Brexit vote shows is that better educated people know their jobs and salaries are less at risk from low skilled immigrants than do those of lower educational achievement in manual or low skilled work. Obvious but ignored by those snobs who describe those who disagree with them as "thick"
Agreed all of that list should be part of our post Brexit world and wouod actually nitbhave been possible within the EU as all the investment wouod have been blocked by state aid rules and of course the jobs/apprenticeships would have had to have been offered to any EU citizen.
None of that says state aid does it? Point is the EU is blamed for the failings of successive governments.
What the educational divide in the Brexit vote shows is that better educated people know their jobs and salaries are less at risk from low skilled immigrants than do those of lower educational achievement in manual or low skilled work. Obvious but ignored by those snobs who describe those who disagree with them as "thick"
How does it explain the low unemployment and the high leave votes from places with incredibly low immigration?
Agreed it doesn't say so explicitly but you soon get there imo. As Gordon Brown said British Jobs for British Workers
How does it explain the low unemployment and the high leave votes from places with incredibly low immigration?
Because;
They have seen what has happened to the jobs of others in areas where there has been higher immigration
They have had their livelihoods negatively impacted by the EU, eg fishing
They feel the EU has favored London/Banking
As the report showed there where some high Leave votes in parts of London and from some Asian communities.
Going ot be very hard for the next government to take all this on the chin isn't it without the handy EU to blame - or judging by the RW [s]bile[/s] press the next 20 years will be the fault of the EU.
2020 election will be fought on the "vision for the future", I am sure the EU will be blamed for holding us back
I am sure the EU will be blamed for holding us back
Why let a good lie go... you have used it long enough, I'm sure we can balme them for the drop in the pound and the 350 million not appearing.