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We are lucky to have Ninfan on hand to explain racism for us.
Ninfan - I’ve lived in England for 25 years, most folk are lovely, but there are some that you can’t say that for.
I don’t know if saying/writing scotchland makes you a full in racist, but it does present you ass bit of an idiot.
Scotch refers to food and drink, as I’m sure you know, not people. Your comments are about the same level as referring to Cockneys as Eellers (‘cos of jelled eels like) or Yorkshire folk as Puddings (I’ll let you work that out) - childish, stupid and low level annoying.
Normally I’d just ignore your stupidity, but you are rather making a thing of it, so here we go.
Insensitive to racist - it’s a spectrum. You’re on it.
it’s a spectrum. You’re on it.
Ah, disability jokes
Very right on and tolerant
I only pop into this thread occasionally and no one replies to my posts as everyone is to involved in the personal vendettas! Lol which is fine...
That said ninfan, your views are actually pretty extreme to be honest and it's slightly worrying that you actually spend a lot of time defending them.
Just saying.
Slightly ot, but I'm sure being a Scot is a nationality, just like being English is.Disliking/abusing someone for their Nationality isn't racism,
Eeermm - not according to the law. Its race, religion or ethnic group
your views are actually pretty extreme to be hones
Cite
No health care or ability to work, that's as difficult as it's possble to make it whilst still letting people walk through the boder (after rigorous checks).
.ninfan - MemberBlair led us into the EU. Handed back a third of the rebate, refused to set safeguards in place on immigration, because they wanted to Rub our noses in multiculturalism
Not a racist at all. You do realise a spectrum means a range between two points and doesn't just refer to disability, people use words with several meanings in the grown ups world or are you doing just your usual trolling?
its not hard to pinpoint the time when the EU positioned softened. It could have been a coincidence as they might simply have realised that it was time to stop playing silly buggers after all.
Oh I thought it was the UK position that had softened.
ninfan - Member
your views are actually pretty extreme to be hones
Cite
Your kidding right?
Ninfan - no disability jokes from me. There is a spectrum of behaviour as outlined (no other spectrums referred or implied) - you’re on it.
Edukator… a Brexit that enables free movement of workers to continue just isn't going to happen… and is the biggest loss for us all… trade deal or otherwise… unless Labour change their mind on this, win over a bigger share of the public on this issue, and the current government falls… a lot to ask, unfortunately,
never mind the disability spectrum or racism spectrum, there's also a nobhead <--> not-nobhead spectrum and I've got a fair idea where a few on here sit on it.
Eeermm - not according to the law. Its race, religion or ethnic group
[Pendant]Nationalities are none of the above.[/Pedant]
Sobriety - as I recall it’s been tested in court. The judge agreed with you.
He may or may not have been correct of course.
Blair led us into the EU. Handed back a third of the rebate, refused to set safeguards in place on immigration, because they wanted to Rub our noses in multiculturalism
Which of those do you wish to take issue with?
The allegation that Labour wanted to rub peoples noses in diversity isn’t mine, and was linked to in the original post.
Its race, religion or ethnic group
Not nationality then?
sobriety - scots count as an ethnic group - but nationality should be in the list as well - my bad
Edukator - that means no healthcare rights for all those brit pensioners in spain the doesn't it? reciprocal agreements and so on.
It's not difficult, get a grown up to explain it to you, off you go now.
Nationalities are none of the above
Is Scottish a nationality?
It’s not even a proper country, more of a region really, like Cornish or Scouser
We're Brits living in Spain and we're not "entitled" to anything just for being here. We have to have private health care and we don't have access to any welfare.
So are they not just leveling the playing field?
scots count as an ethnic group
I always thought the wife was part yeti. I'll tell her it's normal after all.
You had free health care via your EU health card for three months minimum, Spekkie. And as soon as you get a job you get health cover but you've decided not to get a job so you've overstayed your automatic rights and need to pay for your own health cover. The EU rules are the same all over the EU at present, it's just that the UK doesn't like the current rules so wants out.
the 1965 Race Relations Act, which refers to less favourable treatment on grounds of colour, race, or ethnic or national origins
A racial group means a group of people who are defined by reference to their race, colour, nationality or ethnic or national origin
I suppose I'm going to have whistle for my answer about what the Brexies on here want to be freed [b]from[/b] in terms of EU legislation etc and what they want to do with this new found 'freedom'.
So, I'm going to fill in the blanks.
A lot of Brexies don't know what they want to do with their 'freedom', but they know they hate the EU (but are afraid to admit why).
As for the likes of Jamby and THM, I suppose it is so they and their industries/companies are free from regulation so they can rinse the rest of us with more impunity. That is rinse us as consumers and also employees. Oh and in the race to the bottom, they will be able to offshore more of their cash to avoid like the plague paying anything back into the system to benefit the unworthy.
Saying this out loud, of course, is embarrassing. So the preference is to go down the playground route.
I am being deliberately provocative as that seems to now be the way to get noticed on here.
Is anyone from the pro-leaving the EU side going to answer this ****ing question?
Do EU members living in the UK but not working get access to the NHS?
EU citizens in the UK will have equal access to social security, health care, education and employment.
Was confirmed this week. Alternatively you can believe the untrue alternative. The choice is yours. Precedent helps if you are unsure and the full report came out this week, not in March 2017
note sure why you are asking me Danny. I am democratic remainer not a leaver.
spekkie - Non nationals in another country must not be treated less favourably than nationals under EU law. As spanish pensioners in spain get free healthcare the UK pensioners in spain must as well.
However this will be changing now. Those UK pensioners now will get the same rights to healthcare as spanish nationals in the UK ie none.
Its a huge issue for the half million UK pensioners in spain as many of them rely on the free healthcare and simply will not be able to pay for insurance as they will be considered high risk and / or have preexisting conditions.
This may have been fudged but I don't think so
spekkie - MemberDo EU members living in the UK but not working get access to the NHS?
yes at the moment under reciprocal rights
Private health insurance isn't cheap but we had it in SA so having it here wasn't a big deal. We'd keep it going even if we were working I expect.
I can see how the pensioners might be in trouble though.
Edited because my IPad hates me.
dannyh - MemberIs anyone from the pro-leaving the EU side going to answer this **** question?
I doubt it. Hard questions are ignored.
IMO there are some who want a deregulated state as you say. Others just hate furriners and don't care about the consequences
Don't forget spekkie that many werehappy for the UK government to ignore your predicament. Your protection as relatively unimportant. Read back and you will see who they are.
Emergency treatment in a hospital yes, otherwise, no. As a French citizen I can use my EU card if just on holiday in the UK. In fact they can be (but are not always) a right royal pain in the arse so I just pay and ask for a bill and then claim back from the French SECU. I have a UK national insurance number which failed completely the last time I tried to use it.
You can walk or get transported inot a hospital anywhere in Europe and they'll give you emergency treatment (Spain included) it's then up to you to sort out payment and reclaiming from your own national health service if the EU card isn't accepted.
So did anyone explain to me why they thought that cartoon racist? Or was THM just trying to divert attention along with denying his own banning for racist posts?
Not quite right Edukator. Emergency treatment is always free in the NHS for anyone. EU nationals get free healthcare if living here
Cheers Edukator.
Who will not be charged for accessing the NHS?You will not be charged for any NHS treatment if you are ‘ordinarily resident’ in the UK, or if an exemption to charging applies.
‘Ordinarily Resident’The full definition of ordinarily resident for the purposes of accessing NHS services can be found here and is summarized as follows:
“A person will be “ordinarily resident…” in the UK when that residence [b]is lawful, adopted, voluntary, and for settled purposes as part of the regular order of their life for the time being, whether of short or long duration.”[/b]
In practice, you are normally ‘ordinarily resident’ in the UK if you are living and working in the UK and are:
A British citizen
Naturalised within the UK
Settled within the UK (commonly referred to as holding Indefinite Leave to Remain)
British citizens/EEA/Swiss nationals who are visiting the UK may be charged for NHS services they receive at the point of accessing care. The final decision to charge will rest with the healthcare provider.
EU nationalsA valid European Health Insurance Card gives EEA nationals the right to access state-provided healthcare during a temporary stay in another European Economic Area (EEA) country or Switzerland:
Anyone insured for healthcare in another EEA member state or Switzerland and who, for medically necessary treatment, presents either a European Health Insurance Card (EHIC) from that member state or a Provisional Replacement Certificate (PRC) for that card, or, for elective treatment, presents an S2 document for that treatment.
The spouse/civil partner and children under 18 of the above are also exempt when lawfully visiting the UK with them.
Its the bit in bold that gives EU nationals living in the UK the right to NHS free. Edukator fell foul because he was not resident and confused them. should have been free
Is Scottish a nationality?It’s not even a proper country, more of a region really, like Cornish or Scouser
Scotland is a country not a region. It is nothing like Cornwall or Liverpool and comments such as yours go a long way to show your ignorance.
teamhurtmore - Member
Don't forget spekkie that many werehappy for the UK government to ignore your predicament. Your protection as relatively unimportant.
Jamby and any other brexiteers? 😉
Gav - he knows that- just a practising contrarian
Emergency treatment is always free in the NHS for anyone.
Which is more than the EU requirement which is good.
Beyond three months you need to get a UK national insurance number to benefit from free healthcare in the UK, that means registering at the Job centre and making yourslef available for work. Same for France and Spain (I've worked in Spain and been through all the formalities).
Edit: I've now seen yur post of the previous page, TJ. In practice to get the status that gives you free healthcare you have to go via the Job Centre to get the NI number and provide a pile of paperwork to justify your situation.
That post from THM is more utter bolloxs. Its may and co who are putting EU nationals at risk of losing their healthcare. The EU initially offered full reciprocal rights but May and co refused making them into pawns in the political game and all the remainers I have seen commenting on this were disgusted by her stance.
Cite a post THM - put up or shut up
I bet its shut up as he has done on his baseless accusations of racism and as he has over his own banning for racist postings
the 1965 Race Relations Act, which refers to less favourable treatment on grounds of colour, race, or ethnic or national origins
Thanks TJ, if that act hasn't been superseeded I shall have to point it out to my bosses wife next time I see her, as she's Scottish, and hates the English with a passion. 😈
I got a pass as I'm not totally English...
It has been superseded but thats the definition used IIRC - now widened to include religion and disabilities as well
Anti English racism does exist up here but IME of living here for the last 25 years its very rare
Don't forget spekkie that many werehappy for the UK government to ignore your predicament. Your protection as relatively unimportant. Read back and you will see who they are.
Name them. No one has any idea who you are on about.
You go away for a few days and he slips even further down the rabbit hole
Anti English racism does exist but apparently does not need to be condemned. See above ^. Ditto racism.
Many chose to argue that the UK should grant rights to EU citizens despite not having the same rights guaranteed by the EU. This was repeated extensively under the guise of "moral high ground" and the faux argument about "bargaining chips." What it actually meant that they were happy for the UK government not to prioritise respecting your rights. You were less important.
This week, despite the untruths posted above, you saw the joint commitment declared. The gov took their responsibility more seriously that those for whom you were not important. A relief I'm sure.
Anti English racism does exist but apparently doesn not need to be condemned. See above ^. Ditto racism.
Who said that?
Many chose to argue that the UK should grant rights to EU citizens despite no having the same rights guaranteed by the EU
Yep, we should have granted full rights to citizens here. The EU would have then done the same. I have no idea why you claim they would not have.
The UK was the country throwing lives of "citizens of nowhere" into chaos, and we had the power to solve that at the same time as triggering A50. The onus was very much on us. We were triggering A50, we weren't being thrown out.
I was one of the “just give them the rights” ones.
No moral high ground though.
Given nothing is agreed until everything is agreed, and I fully expected the EU to reciprocate, it just didn’t seem worth wasting negotiating time over.
Easy one, get it off the table, move on. Why May failed to do that and made some half arsed gesture I do not know.
As for anti-English racism, yes it exists.
I (originally Glaswegian), my English wife, my Scots best man and his Scots wife were in Pizza Corolla in Glasgow one night when something was said. All I can say is don’t make racist comments around my best man’s wife is you don’t want to look very foolish.
Said Scots anti-English racism was condemned and then some immediately and in the moment by an intelligent and fairly forceful Scots lass. In Glasgow, around closing time, on a Saturday night.
No one gave any more hassle to my wife. I didn’t need to, or get a chance to, react before it was all done.
Yep, we should have granted full rights to citizens here. The EU would have then done the same. I have no idea why you claim they would not have.
The EU offered full rights for all citizens. May and co refused.
More utter bollox
Many chose to argue that the UK should grant rights to EU citizens despite not having the same rights guaranteed by the EU. This was repeated extensively under the guise of "moral high ground" and the faux argument about "bargaining chips."
No "faux" about it since
What it actually meant that they were happy for the UK government not to prioritise respecting your rights. You were less important.
is self-evidently pure BS. The two things don't have to be related.
IGM as should be the case a reciprocal announcement was made this week as we know. Hence people who prefer untruths have to post links back to March. Incredbile in every sense.
And at the end of all this, we have got to the point that was declared (by some) impossible to get to. "Nonsense" the failed rallying cry. Unsurprisingly they remain 99% wrong.. Compromise made, grown ups and very clever people involved, behind the scenes agreements to the fore too. And even our barely competent PM comes out of the week well. Incredible too.
Many chose to argue that the UK should grant rights to EU citizens despite not having the same rights guaranteed by the EU. This was repeated extensively under the guise of "moral high ground" and the faux argument about "bargaining chips."
So what has happened is we got an agreement and then seconds later the high power team stated that we could walk away if we were not happy with anything that comes next. So nothing set in stone there. There was an option to take these things off the table before the start but the UK felt it didn't have enough the bargain/threaten with.
I only pop into this thread occasionally and no one replies to my posts as everyone is to involved in the personal vendettas! Lol which is fine...
yeah, frankly i'd be grateful not to have to wade through nearly three pages of 'he said, she said' in catching up, but it seems that this is what passes for grown up discussion on this thread.
what someone said on a train, and what happened in rotherham, has f all to do with this. seriously, sort your shit out.
a few people need to step away from the keyboard and have a look at themselves. it's pretty ****ing sad TBH.
anyway, i replied to your post. 😉
And even our barely competent PM comes out of the week well. Incredible too.
Pro-European Conservatives are threatening to inflict Theresa May’s first Commons’ defeat on her Brexit bill in a last-ditch bid to have a “meaningful” vote on the terms and conditions of the UK’s exit package." and that's people on the same "team" as her 🙂
"
Hard to avoid Del, but you are right.
OH dear Mike and the purveyors of incorrect infor were claiming a few pages back that the 3 initial issues were now settled. Were they telling porkies again ?
I fear you may be right.
But glad that the UK government is honouring its obligations to our citizens. Good for them.
Kilo never underestimate the determination of the undemocrats.
This is worth a read, I think. For both sides of the camp.
https://orderofthecoif.wordpress.com/2017/12/10/irrelevant-england-and-the-thick-brexiteer/
Someome sort the trolling out.
Thread dead 'till they do.
I am democratic remainer not a leaver.
And I'm Pope John Paul the third.
Oh, also,
Forty thousand. (65 posts ago. Well, 66 now.)
Jesus Christ you economists are hard work to understand, after work drinks at your place would leave me with brain ache 😉
So the use of the words undemocratic, undemocrats, remoaner etc are these done to offend or belittle people? If not what's the reason for picking these terms and using them in a condescending way?
I am glad that you have finally chosen to accept a wonderful gift then cougar, sorry if that name is no longer appropriate . Quite a miraculous conversion - are you the hound or the hare now 😉
Nice link by the way - close to my position
[quote=kelvin ]Someome sort this troll out.
Thread dead 'till they do.
THIS
Occasionally actual debate breaks out but too many people waste their time feeding
I think we all agree there are good people on both sides but only side got the thickos and the racists :winkThis is worth a read, I think. For both sides of the camp.
I can see why some folk voted Brexit but it is not going to achieve what they hope it will.
They're true
Cougar - Moderator
I am democratic remainer not a leaver.
And I'm Pope John Paul the third.POSTED 4 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST
Bluff called!?
[img] https://assets-auto.rbl.ms/02a8ed8c1e04b6b0874991c51d4ccb0e08392dcaeb39aba751ffd00b86cf2962 [/img]
Be nice if the UK government gave me better voting rights than a convicted prisoner given that my only crime is not having a UK address.
no offence but you left at some point after you leave its not your business
My uncle has lived in the US since the 60's his kids were raised they he has retired there. What has it got to do with him or you what the UK do ?
Personally I think 10 years is long enough
THe EU was different though as it did potentially impact on those and may well have been a special case
The people who live on this island archipelago should have a vote IMO. those who don't live here don't get a say
Why worry Ed? Given so many want the vote to be ignored you have probably saved yourself some time. Imagine if you had voted and your vote was ignored?
Is your Uncle now a US citizen, Junkyard ?
I could go and live in the US and still vote in French elections, there's a sort of constituency and in every presidential election there's footage of Frenc New Yorkers voting.
US and French citizens never become second class citizens with reduced rights just because they live somewhere else. US ex-pats continue to pay US taxes if they pay less elsewhere than they would in the US. A excellent example other countries should follow in my opinion. Comply with all obligations benefit from all rights for as long as you are a citizen.
And I'm Pope John Paul the third.
Bless me Cougar for I have sinned It's been xx years since my last confession. In fact it's so long ago that Harold Wilson was prime minister
And I'm Pope John Paul the third.
If only there was a thread on this forum that discussed the EU referendum before it happened upon which THM had posted his arguments for remaining.
Re: the cartoon, I am somewhat surprised that people who were upset by "watermelon" smile are comfortable with the portrayal of Africans in that cartoon, but then they are probably comfortable with the portrayal of Jewish people with hooked noses.
THM doesn't dislike the Scottish, he is rather complimentary about them for rejecting independence, I am not sure he has a great deal of time for Scottish Nationalists but he says no worse about them than people say about Tories on here.
teamhurtmore - Member
Why worry Ed? Given so many want the vote to be ignored you have probably saved yourself some time. Imagine if you had voted and your vote was ignored?
Time to stop misrepresentation of what people are arguing and campaigning for. Personally i want exactly what was promised, an advisory referendum leading to a period of discussion where some facts could be presented. Add in the opportunity to review progress or lack of and the state of the deal before rejecting or accepting it with the final option to remain in the eu. That is not undemocratic.
Some reasonable points, some brown nosing and some alt facts mefty.
I have ever made a comment that was sexist when I insult May and I am sure you would be all over me, rightly so , if I did