[Closed] EU Referendum - are you in or out?

It's about having a say/more control over our future

Well in that case, I am going to be equally unreasonable

Outofbreath - pissing off the EU even more at this point would be really useful wouldn't it? Plus I am sure there will be sanctions available

pissing off the EU even more at this point would be really useful wouldn't it?

I don't think it matters.

They have to strike the balance between making this as painful as they can for us whilst not damaging their own interests too much.

How much they like us is irrelevant, if they do us a favour then other nations will think it's a good wheeze and leave.

Mefty - its a position with no logical rationale thats why its wrong.

There is a difference between no logic and logic you don't agree with, I don't hold out any hope that you will understand that. It's just good to be reminded why I didn't bother renewing my sub.

I'd say May's fawning over Trump, holding his wee hand, pimping out the Queen etc is doing a pretty good job of showing other nations what fate awaits them if they leave.

The more desperate we look, maybe the more they'll pity us and offer a good deal?

Also trump's next policy pledge is his trade war with China, as well as dividing on their south China sea plans, will we back him then as well , do we need trade with China more, I suspect that our foreign policy will be dictated entirely by who we can get a Daily Mail friendly trade deal with.

The fact you disagree with it is a pretty sure sign he got it right.

😀

mefty - go on then - explain the logic behind it in a rational way that shows its just not weasel words to try to justify the odd stance the labour party are taking on this

Morgan v Gove v Soubry!!!

Soubry coming a clear third so far!

It's about having a say/more control over our future

In exchange for less say/control in our biggest single market.

excuse me slowoldman, i was having a bit of fun there, only semi-serious and not in the sense you took it 😉

mefty - go on then - explain the logic behind it in a rational way that shows its just not weasel words to try to justify the odd stance the labour party are taking on this

Futility
BY WILFRED OWEN
Move him into the sun—
Gently its touch awoke him once,
At home, whispering of fields half-sown.
Always it woke him, even in France,
Until this morning and this snow.
If anything might rouse him now
The kind old sun will know.

Think how it wakes the seeds—
Woke once the clays of a cold star.
Are limbs, so dear-achieved, are sides
Full-nerved, still warm, too hard to stir?
Was it for this the clay grew tall?
—O what made fatuous sunbeams toil
To break earth's sleep at all?

Is that about Brexy voters Mefty?

Plenty of them shuffling off their mortal coils soon.

[quote=tjagain ]mefty - go on then - explain the logic behind it in a rational way that shows its just not weasel words to try to justify the odd stance the labour party are taking on this

Is it odd though? Are they not following the opinion polls and what they perceive to be the nations wishes?

There was once a mandate a politician stood on that said "no tuition fees" - ouch Clegg takes one in the bollix

In other news a Professor and one of Trump's advisors correctly points out what we all know that the euro creates an artificially low currency for Germany and the ECB manages it for their benefit. Merkel denies it of course. Tusk has gone full Armageddon and said Trump is a threat to the EU as mixh as Russia or China. Clear attempt at EU project fear - you must tow the line my servants

There was once a mandate a politician stood on that said "no tuition fees" - ouch Clegg takes one in the bollix

And the LibDems were destroyed at the next general election.
Isn't democracy great.
Now, let's see if the exit deal we get is anything like those suggested during the campaign, and then vote on it.

Tusk has gone full Armageddon and said Trump is a threat to the EU as mixh as Russia or China. Clear attempt at EU project fear - you must tow the line my servants

Have you not being paying attention? Trump and the man who is most likely to be the next USA embasador to the EU have been talking this up all by themselves. We can ignore it all as bluster if we want, but the last week suggests that it might be wise to listen.

Yes, Jambas, but follow the logic there. If correct and the Germans have created a monster that creates unsustainable surpluses, then they need to understand that these surpluses have to be recycled otherwise no one will be left to feed the monster that they created.

They are as guilty as the PIIGS for the demise of the EZ - in fact probably more, because they have the audacity to charge the PIIGS with addressing unilateraly, when they are equally to blame.

TJ mefty was correct, Stamer gets it.

It's politics and nothing else, and the reason (as I've said previously on this post) that May is pushing it as she is, 'cos she's a politician and had now the top job, and intends to keep it irrelevant of the outcome.

Isn't democracy great.

only if the result goes your way, apparently

Out of adversity....So Stamer, articulate, a lawyer, not associated with he-who-was-very-successful-but-cannot-be named....is this a new leader in the making?

Whoa we have a new entry in the most deluded brexie in the commons league table

the 23 June last year will be remembered as a great day in history. It is comparable with Agincourt and Waterloo,
All MPs are doing is implementing the glorious decision taken by the public in the referendum

And with that rees- mogg flies to the top position

What can IDS pull out of the bag to regain his place?

The only In Deep Shit quotes I have seen have been distressing moderate.
He's up to something.

And with that rees- mogg flies to the top position
What can IDS pull out of the bag to regain his place?

Starmer is saying what he thinks people want to hear - not what he thinks is right and it has no logic behind it bar electoral calculation.

I* understand why he has adopted this position but to claim its logical in any sense is just wrong. It doesn't even make sense FFS

Lets see then

"This is obviously a difficult decision," he said.

A good start - tick

"I wish the result had gone the other way. I campaigned passionately for that.

Good middle - tick

But as democrats our party has to accept that result and it follows that the prime minister should not be blocked from starting the Article 50 negotiations."

Logical finish and makes sense - tick.

Yep, I think that is what people might well want to hear. Democracy at work - tick

Will it help their election chances - who knows? But better than relying on the old bloke who seems to have gone awol.

only if the result goes your way, apparently

🙂

Been watching the commons all day

My hatred for the Tories cannot be expressed strongly enough. Smug, elitist arseholes.

We need a modern day guy fawkes more than ever 😐

an attempted murderer?

Murderer - possibly. Like that Brexy in Leeds.

Oh sorry, attempted murder. Like that Brexy that got done last week - or was he just a fantastist

David Lammy currently telling it like it is. Best I've heard all day.

[quote=igm ]Murderer - possibly. Like that Brexy in Leeds.
Oh sorry, attempted murder. Like that Brexy that got done last week - or was he just a fantastist

It was a tongue in cheek comment that our crop of politicians are crap!

Agreed and understood Bob.

I was merely pointing out to all and sundry that the Brexies have already resorted to murder.
Although I am not condoning the "well they started it" defence.

igm - perspective please

My hatred for the Tories cannot be expressed strongly enough. Smug, elitist arseholes.

Yep does make you sorta wonder why 'Will of the people' gave them carte Blanche to do whatever they want,seems a trifle naive.

Brexit the gift that keeps on giving.

So lots of contribuitions, all (most) very interesting. But so what? The debates took place last year. Nothing new in terms of the argument. Tomorrow the vote will be passed and we will carry on. Apart from confirming correct legal process, has anything changed? I doubt it.

Still at least it was only 2 days and the timetable for getting on with things still looks achievable. Give the range of options expressed, not sure where the idea that Parliament would deliver a consensus came from??

[I]Yep does make you sorta wonder why 'Will of the people' gave them carte Blanche to do whatever they want,seems a trifle naive.[/I]

+1

And she's unelected too, so you really couldn't make it up 🙂

THM - fair enough on perspective, but where was I inaccurate? And did one well known Brexy gloat that Brexit was won without a shot being fired a few short days after Jo Cox was murdered? And today Cash talking about a "peaceful revolution".
These people have no shame and I see no reason to let them off the hook for the things they incited.

IMHO Don't think there's gonna be any meat on this puppy until the negotiation starts and the first non's start coming out. All this foreplays a bit boring tbh.

IMO you are going too far to say that Brexies resorted to murder. Sorry but that's a poor show IMO and not fitting given the character of the victim. But you are entitled to your view of course!

Boring possibly occasionally, but staggeringly polite and charming. Some very eloquent and thoughtful contributions on both sides but as one bloke just said - all a bit late.

Impressed by Wes Streeting from Ilford North - shame that Gove interrupted with more lies, but knocked back by young Wes with aplomb. Bravo.

THM - did you write what you meant there or am I misunderstanding it?

not fitting given the character of the victim

Misunderstanding, sorry. Would Jo Cox have used the words you did? That was my point. No victim blaming at all.

No she probably wouldn't.

Probably a better person than me.

(Didn't think you were victim blaming, but I did want to give you the opportunity to be absolutely clear in your meaning)

dudeofdoom - Member
IMHO Don't think there's gonna be any meat on this puppy until the negotiation starts and the first non's start coming out. All this foreplays a bit boring tbh.

Yes, I just think you went too far with that one comment. nothing more. Forget it.

IMO you are going too far to say that Brexies resorted to murder.

So he wasn't a brexy, or he didn't murder her... or murder wasn't his last resort? I'm not quite sure what else I can draw from your words here, THM.

You have to face facts that there are some pretty unsavoury characters on the Brexit side of the argument.

And when I can be bothered, I'll wade through some of the earlier pages of this thread to test your assertion that your views haven't changed.

You have to face facts that there are some pretty unsavoury characters on the Brexit side of the argument

Not sure of the relevance of that though?

There are zokes true, but that is different from saying that Brexies have already resorted to murder.

Feel free to read every page, you won't find what you are hoping for.

The only "change" was that I argued that the whole question was pointless for the very simple reason that the thing we would be voting for would not/could not exist in the future by design. The whole thing was premature. I still believe that, The whole thing has been a waste of time and a mistake. A MASSIVE one.

First Europe has to decide what it is going to be. Only at that point, should we have voted.

That aside, I have never argued to leave despite my reservations about the €. Why because we were not part of that folly. I believed that Dave pulled off a very good deal. More fool those who condemned him at the time.