keep calm, i was pulling your leg about saying half of "the population" when referring to the losing side instead of "half the voters"
Meanwhile, the other half of the population have got no voice, no representation, and are being wilfully ignored and shouted down.
Why do you think that the votes of those on the other side to us have less value than the ones on our side. In my book, they are the same.
We will have a compromise, that is what happens in a negotiation
While we will no longer be members of the single market, we will continue to have access to it. The unknown is what form that access will take. By definition - a compromise...
Meanwhile back to bad losing....
Meanwhile back to bad losing....
No. Having less is the new winning.
Thank you for the assurance. Will that access be more or less expensive than our current arrangement?While we will no longer be members of the single market, we will continue to have access to it.
keep calm, i was pulling your leg about saying half of "the population" when referring to the losing side instead of "half the voters"
(-: I was extrapolating. The vote, rightly or wrongly, is supposed to be representative of the populace as a whole (that's how opinion polls generally work, you don't interview everyone, just a sample). Knowing what those who didn't or couldn't vote would've chosen if they had done is speculative at best.
Speaking of speculating I'd like to bet that if voting had been mandatory, Leave wouldn't have won (and they almost certainly would have got demolished if 16-18 year olds had been allowed a vote), so in saying "half" I'm probably being generous.
Why do you think that the votes of those on the other side to us have less value than the ones on our side. In my book, they are the same.
I don't, that's exactly what I've just been saying.
Thank you for the assurance. Will that access be more or less expensive than our current arrangement?
More. That's why I voted to remain.
I don't, that's exactly what I've just been saying.
Good cougs, well more of the same value of votes were to leave the EU than to remain. So that is what we are doing.
OOI, which of the many opinion polls are you referring to? I was referring the the referendum which was a different thing
You are either being loose with you choice of words or spinning deliberately. Hmmm,....
I know.
It's ****ing stupid, isn't it.
Its not smart no, but there we are. Life is like that at times. Character is about how you respond to good and bad things that life throws at you, often in a random manner.
Right now, we have a challenge. Character is shown by responding to it in a positive manner, not whining, making false claims, sticking our heads in the sand. Leave that to the SNP.
THM - I not whining, I am responding positively.
Those who voted to leave, with the fewer jobs and lower standard of living that entails should be allowed to have that. For me to go against their wishes to be worse off would not be fair in them.
At the same time those who voted for tolerance, prosperity and an outward looking society should not be overlooked and I will do my best to support the 48ers in those goals.
Everyone gets what they want. Can't say fairer than that.
Of course character is also about digging in and playing you part, paying your way when the time comes, not quitting and running away when it is your turn to carry the team.
Character is shown by responding to it in a positive manner, not whining, making false claims, sticking our heads in the sand.
No, character is shown by sticking with and arguing for a set of beliefs despite being called a whiner or a moaner etc.
You are Jambalaya and I claim my £5.00.
PS - I draw the line at the Minford's zero tariff proposal that would kill the vast majority of manufacturing and farming in the UK - his view not mine. May's tax haven idea sounds remarkably close to Minford-ism.
Still not seeing these positive benefits to leaving that we asked about a page or two back (beyond the eloquent and compelling "who cares," incidentally. Anyone?
not whining, making false claims
I'm not whining, frankly I'm terrified.
Which false claims would they be?
"I don't respect the vote. It was an opinion poll,"
Ditto, it means nothing.
I had the second opportunity in eight days to vote euro-positive so M. Hamond got my vote for the second time in the lefty primaries here in socialist land.
"I don't respect the vote. It was an opinion poll,"
+1
Those who voted to leave, with the fewer jobs and lower standard of living that entails should be allowed to have that. For me to go against their wishes to be worse off would not be fair in them.
At the same time those who voted for tolerance, prosperity and an outward looking society should not be overlooked and I will do my best to support the 48ers in those goals.
Everyone gets what they want. Can't say fairer than that.
No one gets anything, that's just a fantasy. Be real.
You are Jambalaya and I claim my £5.00.
You can, but I charge interest at an outrageous rate. You may want to reconsider.
"I don't respect the vote. It was an opinion poll,"Ditto, it means nothing.
The ONE thing that is was not, was an opinion poll. We had those totally separately unless we are making more false claims to hide the fact we lost.
But you are right, you don't respect the vote. THAT is obvious.
The ONE thing that is was not, was an opinion poll.
Do you need me to dig out the Government documentation which explains that referendums are not legally binding? Or remind you of the recent legal battle which confirmed that the Government didn't have the authority to make it so?
"The ONE thing that is was not, was an opinion poll."
All it was, AFAIK, was a measure of public opinion. It's not legally binding in any way at all.
If we'd voted to Nuke Bristol it would have been ignored.
No you need to be precise in your language that is all.
if you are claiming that on the 23 June 2016 we had an opinion poll then you are either mistaken or spinning, you decide?
Can you tell me which polling organisation conducted the poll - if it happened?
Remind yourself what the recent court case referred to. Here's a clue, a R_F_R_N___. An easy starter for 10.
All it was, AFAIK, was a measure of public opinion. It's not legally binding in any way at all.
If we'd voted to Nuke Bristol it would have been ignored.
Even if the people had spoken?
No you need to be precise in your language that is all.
You know what I mean, language or no, you're just splitting hairs. As OOB says, whether you call it a poll, a referendum, a vote, or a cheese sandwich, it's still a means of gathering opinion and has no legal ("democratic") basis.
Having seen May's recent performances I disagree. Cue Binner's favourite photo... .If we'd voted to Nuke Bristol it would have been ignored.
No I am not. You are deliberately choosing words to make a point. They are incorrect. The vote on the 23 June 2016 was not an "opinion poll". FACT.
You can try the trick of those you chastise here and repeat the same claim, but it will not make it true.
Still not seeing these positive benefits to leaving that we asked about a page or two back (beyond the eloquent and compelling "who cares," incidentally. Anyone?
Irrelevant - You had a chance to make that argument beforehand, you did, we listened, and decided.
You're [b]still[/b] trying to refight the referendum rather than concentrating on what comes next.
You're still trying to refight the referendum rather than concentrating on what comes next.
Forget Putin, I reckon Sturgeon has hacked everyones' brains and computers
If we'd voted to Nuke Bristol it would have been ignored.
If we could have slightly more than a five minute warnining thou, I'd be vary greatfull.
My biggest moan apart from all the lying on both sides is that anyone with half a brain would have put some small print that you had to have a specific majority say 60/40 a vote which is so close is just asking for trouble.
Steaming ahead with a narrow majority on a non binding referendum will probably not be greatest decision ever taken when history is written about this.
ninfan - what comes next is the fightback to prevent this piece of national self harm
THM : Wow, the vitriol you have reserved for the SNP/Nicola Sturgeon is quite something, you should really let it go otherwise i fear you may become an embittered solo voice emanating from that high horse you've mounted.
Too late
It's happening
You can fight for the easy way, or take it the hard way, but It's still happening.
The whole things reminiscent of the 2010 election, where labour spent five years afterwards trying to refight that election by talking about the economy, while the Tories and SNP were romping home unopposed
I will let it go when they stop spouting nonsense. The ball is in their court.
Like ^ people should think its important to stand up to BS.
And funky I will have you know that it's a very fine Shetland pony, thank you very much
My biggest moan apart from all the lying on both sides is that anyone with half a brain would have put some small print that you had to have a specific majority say 60/40 a vote which is so close is just asking for trouble.Steaming ahead with a narrow majority on a non binding referendum will probably not be greatest decision ever taken when history is written about this.
+1. David Cameron will go down as probably the biggest failure of a PM, well, since forever.
Although he has some tough competition for that particular award.
All political careers end in failure
Jacques Chirac ended his career with his best years and is remembered fondly even by everybody I've ever asked even those who voted against him.
His wife?
Yeah but few so disastrously and ignominiously just after winning a good majority in an election.
I think May will give DC a run for that honour - the disastrous and ignominious bit.
(Not sure if I'd call DC's majority good)
No I am not. You are deliberately choosing words to make a point.
I'm really not, I've never "chosen words" to make any point ever, I have a good grasp of language but I'm not that clever and rely consistently on the hope that people grasp meaning / intention rather than argue semantics.
They are incorrect. The vote on the 23 June 2016 was not an "opinion poll". FACT.
Yes it was. FACT.
Capitals make everything true, right?
Irrelevant - You had a chance to make that argument beforehand, you did, we listened, and decided.
The positive benefits of leaving are irrelevant? Seriously?
Don't you have any?
I'm not trying to have an argument, I'm inviting you to convince me that I've missed something and have got it all wrong.
The positive benefits of leaving are irrelevant? Seriously?
Yes, at this point they are - because the time for them was before the referendum.
You can't just pretend it didn't happen, it's a political reality
Imagine if Scotland had voted for independence, even if it was 52/42% there is no practical way the government could have ignored it, that's exactly what you are calling for them to do, its fantasy land.
Only when applied to factual content, YOU failed on that score I'm afraid.
But let's assume (for a nanosecond) that you are correct, which polling company organised what you claim on 23 June 2016?
"Imagine if Scotland had voted for independence, even if it was 52/42% there is no practical way the government could have ignored it, that's exactly what you are calling for them to do, its fantasy land."
IIRC that one *was* legally binding.
Only when applied to factual content, YOU failed on that score I'm afraid.
How so?
which polling company organised what you claim on 23 June 2016?
I've already answered this question.
Yes, at this point they are - because the time for them was before the referendum.
Why don't you humour me and list yours?
teamhurtmore - MemberBut let's assume (for a nanosecond) that you are correct, which polling company organised what you claim on 23 June 2016?
You seem to have decided that's important. What polling company organises the STW poll? The UK government runs lots of polls.
So, just to change tack, presumably England & Wales will have no problem leaving the Union so Scotland can stay in the EU?
And please, no one throw in the 'economy' card, as you Brexiters aren't interested in whether leaving is good for the economy, so why worry about whether Scotland staying in is - as it won't be your problem.