FoM may be a May red line, but the point is that she is going beyond the remit of the referendum while claiming it as the will of the people.
If she came out and said she doesn't like the EEA / EFTA then I might have a little more respect for her - but she keeps claimed the British people have spoken.
Well yes they did. And they said on the question of the EU, we're a little more out than in. But on anything else they weren't asked. If they had been they might have spoken.
PS isn't the nickname submarine May taking on new significance with the lies of the last few days.
Maybot must be a bit upset about the push for a white paper means ever more scrutiny and points she can be held to when negotiations fail and we are left with a hard Brexit and a trashed economy.
[b]Ruled out by Merkel, ahead of being[/b] ruled out by the government, ahead of negotiations.
Ruled out by the government, ahead of negotiations. Not ruled out by the referendum.
Referendum showed quite clearly we wanted no FOM and no ECJ, hence no EEA. Thersa has a very clear mandate for her current course of action. If she agrees any budget contribution paod by central Government there will be a rebellion. If City wants special access they should pay for it by a specific extra levy/tax.
Personally speaking WTO please and let's spend our time focusing on Global opportunities.
hard Brexit and a trashed economy.
Hard Brexit = optimal. Only trashed economies are going to be in the EU, especially Southern Europe.
Ruled out by Merkel, ahead of being ruled out by the government, ahead of negotiations.
Source? My understanding is Merkel and others ruled out Single Market "membership" without FoM. It is May ruling out FoM, and ECJ or similar, and therefore ruling out SM, in an EEA or EFTA fashion. If May said we wanted a deal like Norway, we'd probably get it, with bells on, not that it would help our famers etc, but she has ruled it out because she is dead against FoM and courts.
Maybot must be a bit upset about the push for a white paper means ever more scrutiny
"The SNP responded to the ruling by saying it would table 50 "serious and substantive" amendments".
[quote=jambalaya ]Referendum showed quite clearly we wanted no FOM and no ECJ, hence no EEA.I don't recall questions on those being asked on the ballot paper.
Indeed slow hence my comment earlier about just making trouble for trouble's sake.
Bill will be ultra short and targetted to A50 it will be virtually un-amendable. All night sessions etc if required. Speaker is going to have a hell of a job on his hands.
Crystal clear if you where paying attention to the debate Scot. Remember Remain "threatened" us that a Leave vote was a vote to leave the Single Market. We responded YES PLEASE.
[b][i]Trouble for trouble's sake..[/i][/b]. or MPs doing their job… they NEVER abdicated responsibly on this matter… they voted for an advisory referendum, and should have started working on what happens next 6 months ago, rather than May doing her submarine act and thinking she is the only one that needs to respond to the referendum. If the government tries to rush through an empty blank cheque of a bill, MPs should refuse to be frozen out in that way.
kelvin - same understanding. May said FoM was definitely out, Merkel said no cherry-picking.
I see the Govt loses Brexit Vote appeal on A50. Crikey. What a pain. 😯
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-38723261 ]BBC news[/url]
Bet those reminders are now quietly confident they are turning the outcome of the referendum their way by preventing a Brexit. 😯
I wonder what will happen if the parliament vote to remain due to remainders putting pressure on the MPs to vote against Brexit to remain in EU. Of course that should be fun to see.
Does that mean the Govt will call for a new General Election?
Does that mean this time we will actually see the actual rise of UKIP especially in the North East?
Thersa has a very clear mandate for her current course of action.
You agree with her course of action… but that is only a mandate from you.
No supporting vote has been made on her "plans", or her particular red lines and approach to leaving the EU, by the public, by MPs… by anyone.
Seeing as there was no plan before the vote adn still no plannow then its clear we didn't vote for a particular solution - and all the shouty louder leavers were saying we could stay in the single market while stopping freedom of movement - an obvious piece of nonsense to the non deluded.
Referendum showed quite clearly we wanted no FOM and no ECJ, hence no EEA.
How? Really, how? That's going to need a lot of explaining.
relax, these are the details,that we are about to negotiate. It will take time and there will be a compromise. It will be worse than before - tant pis - but we know that. But it's in no one's interests for it to be a disaster.
W
The rest is noise. Nothing more.se
Mol, have you been away for a while?
But it's in no one's interests for it to be a disaster.
Agreed, May is taking us on a path to disaster.
The rest is noise.
It is how we leave, and the new relationship, that matter: this is not noise.
If you say so.
Given that we basically only know that (1) she wants a bespoke deal and (2) what she wants can't be delivered, it seems somewhat premature to jump to your conclusion. But carry on...
"That" isn't correct. That's why we need to start negotiating the details. The crap today is the noise.
So what's the count of voting yes and no through parliament on this brexit bill?
I'm not holding out for a reversal btw, just curious on the numbers of likely voting.
Conservative 329 yes, vote it through? (any tory rebels? there' would need to be around 30 or so if labour got their act together, tbh I can't think of a better way for labour to send the tories into complete disarray and force a general election, dunno if they'll have the smarts to see that though...)
Labour 229, ?
Scottish National Party 54, no
Liberal Democrat 9, no
Democratic Unionist Party 8, yes
Independent 4, ? dunno
Sinn Fein 4, n/a
Plaid Cymru 3, no?
Social Democratic & Labour Party 3, ? dunno
Ulster Unionist Party 2, ? dunno
Green Party 1, no
Speaker 1, no vote.
UK Independence Party 1, yes
Vacant 2
tbh treeza should be glad the judges went against her today, as when we become an american protectorate, least she can point the finger at someone else!! 😆
Oh hello chewkw, just got up?
I see IDS is being his usual charming self too.
The decision to leave will not be reversed.
well, no shit sherlock, but at least we will now know exactly who to blame for it! 😆mitsumonkey - Member
The decision to leave will not be reversed.
seosamh77
IIRC there are about 100 mps who declared themselves for OUT. The rest are for IN.
confirms the sovereignty of parliament. which imo is very important, particularly outside the EU.WTF is going to be achieved by having this table debate the issues
tjagain - Member
seosamh77IIRC there are about 100 mps who declared themselves for OUT. The rest are for IN.
ta, thought there'd have been a bit more. Labour are just being stupid imo.
I wonder if there have been any other referenda that have forced people to abandon life plans?
Labour have a real issue. the lefties always disliked Europe as a bastion of the free market. They also fear their votes going UKIP in the northern English towns hence numpties like Burns playing the race card. I think they should be selling the benefits of the EU ie leading opinion not following the lowest common denominator but to too many of them thats the Blair lesson - follow the lead of the daily wail to win power
what do you mean life plans?molgrips - Member
I wonder if there have been any other referenda that have forced people to abandon life plans?
That has been confirmed already.
The Toires and Labour will have a handful of rebels. The LDs will make their point of protest. The bill will be passed.
Tried to understand Jezza's tweets but with little joy so far....
Not difficult to see why the Daily Mail readership hate Gina Miller so much.
Because she is female and has challenged their twisted bitter world view?
That and a couple of other things, one being her being pretty articulate and the other the colour of her skin.
dannyh - I think we may both be right 🙂
It'll be interesting to see the mail headlines tomorrow - will they vilify Miller or the evil judges?
It'll be interesting to see the mail headlines tomorrow - will they vilify Miller or the evil judges?
I bet full Hitler or Stalin accusations.
Perhaps we should cut Jezza some slack, chukka is as bad on Ch 4 news now
I just know you lot have been arguing since the decision earlier this morning. I see it as a vote for reason and accountability, common sense and justice.
Obvz, the Brexiteers won't understand such things, so here's something to keep them occupied, something they'll understand.
[img] 
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It must be hell for you outies that you will never be able to moan about any of your bills going up or when your mortgage rockets as its the price you are prepared to pay for freedom.
Just how much are you prepared to pay for a litre (sorry 0.22 of a gallon) of petrol?
Yeah I know it's a global conspiracy against us of everyone raising their prices at the same time.
Approx 80 MPs have indicated they will vote against so Government will have no trouble winning the motion.
After BBC's analcyst they now have Brexit and La La Land next to each other on their news home page. 😀
One thing I have struggled with ever since the vote is how the very first handshake of the negotiations with the EU will go.
Anyone with any sense of self would have to start with "Well, I'm really sorry about all this ****ing mess".
How on earth are we going to find someone who is both a capable and honest negotiator as well as being able to keep a straight face as they pretend this is anything but an act of national self-harm?
Still, it's happening, so I'll have to get used to it - everything becoming more expensive, jobs disappearing, remaining jobs becoming less secure and less well paid. Can't wait.
what do you mean life plans?
Plans to live abroad, you know.
In reality, they have been going on ever since the vote. We are treated to the public show. The real stuff happens well away from the gaze of the great unwashed. That is at least on the big questions.
On the gory details, no one round the table is going to complain, They're getting paid for it and unlike Brexshiteers they are not Turkeys and it's not December.
Now I know what it feels like to be a Scouser.
An untameable hatred of The Conservative party. I've always hated them but now it's been ratcheted up to a level even I'm surprised at.
I can't wait for our yearly visit of our local mp and the photographers from the evening standard. I shall take great pleasure tearing him a new arsehole and banning him from my shop.
What happens when the Labour Party come round, Like the Gov they were for remain largely, albeit half-heartedly. The only difference is one is having to execute the decision and one doesn't know how to respond.
Which is "more at fault"?t
Re numbers, and whips. Lets not forget: we've also got the House of Lords:
Last year, the HoL's Constitution Committee said:
"there is nothing in Article 50 formally to prevent a Member State from reversing its decision to withdraw in the course of the withdrawal negotiations”.
As I understand it, today's judgment demands that the Lords also approve the bill.