[Closed] EU Referendum - are you in or out?

LOL at the DM comments.

[i]"Stop respecting the sovereignty of parliament - that isn't what we voted for..."[/i]

Ultimately I still very much doubt anything will come of this. The principle was important and I think the right judicial decision has been made. But the motion will be waved through parliament with a minimum of fuss.

Possibly Graham - but get nagging your MP just in case.
And get your friends to do the same.

If all MPs followed their constituencies wishes article 50 would be given the all clear anyway wouldn't it? (assuming people would vote the same again)

kelvin - Member

Half? I agree the Labour vote is split on this, but where did you get 50:50 from?

Labour voters voted to remain by a 67% majority.

Just watching the news coverage one thing that always comes across is what a profoundly stupid little man Iain Duncan Smith is. I used to think that possibly he was deliberately misrepresenting the constitution for political ends, but in reality I now think he's simply too thick to understand it.

Ken Clarke was valiantly trying to explain it to him in words of less than two syllables, like explaining quantum physics to a 3 year old, but it still wasn't registering

"But the motion will be waved through parliament with a minimum of fuss."

So we can conclude leaving isn't anticipated to be very damaging to the UK.

So we can conclude leaving isn't anticipated be very damaging to the UK.

Let's hope the price of petrol keeps going up so that the bigots can see how much their vote is going to cost them.

So we can conclude leaving isn't anticipated to be very damaging to the UK.

No I don't think we can conclude that at all.

I think we can conclude that many MPs will vote as instructed by their party, many will vote as instructed by their constituency, and many will vote as instructed by the referendum result.

Most will keep their heads down as they have nothing to gain by rocking the boat.

Some will rebel and oppose, based on their particular party/constituency/country/conscience lines, but seems pretty clear to me they will be a minority.

Possibly Graham - but get nagging your MP just in case.
And get your friends to do the same.

I'm in the North East, with a longstanding Tory MP, I can't see me shifting his stance!
Even my friends are only about a 60:40 split to towards Remain.

Chris the **** Grayling is my mp.
His constituents voted to stay, his party leader was pro stay.He is an out.
Should he reflect the wishes of his boss and voters-?

Most will keep their heads down as they have nothing to gain by rocking the boat.

If MPs have nothing to gain by stopping Brexit, we can conclude leaving isn't anticipated to be very damaging to the UK, can't we?

Or do you think that life after leaving will be so good it will actually be a vote winner?

Half? I agree the Labour vote is split on this, but where did you get 50:50 from?

I didn't. I was using the figurative half, not the literal one. My bad, as they say.

Agree that Corbyn is not doing a good job at all.

Piece in the guardian today saying Brexit could be great as it gives the tools to the UK government to properly invest in Britain. It'd be nice if they did.

Let's hope the price of petrol keeps going up so that the bigots can see how much their vote is going to cost them.

Bugger petrol, if they shop in Lidl they'll see Parme :?san Cheese has shot up 60p in the last couple of weeks!! 😕

I feel that sweaty, mild, pre sliced cheddar is probably the official cheese of Brexit.

zippykona - Member

Let's hope the price of petrol keeps going up so that the bigots can see how much their vote is going to cost them.

I couldnt believe the price of petrol when i filled up this morning, having not filled up for 6 weeks. Needless to say I instantl thought 'bl00dy brexit' 😆

Even my friends are only about a 60:40 split to towards Remain.

Then only persuade the 60% to nag their MP. 😉

If MPs have nothing to gain by stopping Brexit, we can conclude leaving isn't anticipated to be very damaging to the UK, can't we?

You really are very determined to spin this aren't you oob?

It's [url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35616946 ]a matter of record[/url] that before the referendum MPs of all parties declared very strongly in favour of Remain.

But most have nothing to [i]personally[/i] gain in rebelling against it now because, for the reasons I outlined, they know they won't succeed in stopping it so it's not worth making themselves targets and putting their positions in danger.

But most have nothing to personally gain in rebelling against it now because, for the reasons I outlined, they know they won't succeed in stopping it so it's not worth making themselves targets and putting their positions in danger.

A50 Trigger Bill wil be passed easily. Question is how much parties like SNP will try and frustrate and slow down the process. The big positive from a Leaver's perspective is that there will be no seperate approval from NI, Wales and Scotland all will be done in Westminster.

As I wondered a few pages back, will we see the uktra short bill before May goes to NY, maybe it seems. It could be very powerful to have Trump speak about the US/UK deal at the same time as we launch the Bill.

But most have nothing to personally gain in rebelling against it now because, for the reasons I outlined, they know they won't succeed in stopping it

Why not? If it needs a vote failure to win that vote means no Brexit. May just shrugs her shoulders and blames parliament. Tragedy averted.

If people voted by 2pc to eat razor blades parliament wouldn't ratify it, I can't escape from the conclusion that parliament doesn't think life outside the EU will be that bad. Or at least the consequences will not be as bad as ignoring a close run referendum.

wasnt Mays constituency 60% remain?

as brexishambles judders on, she'll be needing those brown trousers 🙂

Well you can at least conclude that parliament doesn't think it's as bad as eating razor blades.

It could be very powerful to have Trump speak about the US/UK deal at the same time as we launch the Bill.

Will that deal still allow British women to have abortions?

Will he remember what he thought about Brexit to stay on message? Anyway Borris said he wasn't welcome (time for the lift pic) he's be as welcome as fart in a lift

I disagree Jambalaya.
A vote in Scotland would have put more pressure on SNP and given the PM more authority. Now Scotland and Northern Ireland get a free reign to moan about Brexit.
Same with Trump. He is very unpopular in the UK, and it will play against TM if she is too close to him.

I can't escape from the conclusion that [b]the individual well-off members of parliament[/b] doesn't think life outside the EU will be that bad. Or at least the consequences [b]for the well off[/b] will not be as bad as ignoring a close run referendum.

The big positive from a Leaver's perspective is that there will be no seperate approval from NI, Wales and Scotland all will be done in Westminster.

Agreed. An approval requirement from any of those administrations (all of whom who I think have publicly said it's a very bad idea) would have killed Brexit stone dead. So the Brexies live to fight another day.
Unfortunately given the Scottish and Northern Irish position in particular it is probably very bad for the UK. I wonder if the UK will exist when you and I are retired and sipping a nice red in the Alps. Switzerland for you wasn't it? France for me I think.

It could be very [u]powerful[/u] to have Trump speak about the US/UK deal at the same time as we launch the Bill.

high energy, even 😉

I can't escape from the conclusion that parliament doesn't think life outside the EU will be that bad.

Whereas I can't escape the conclusion that they may just be looking after number one...

If you're honest the truth is somewhere between the two!

Sturgeon's response

We will ensure the Scottish Parliament has a say on triggering Article 50
NICOLA STURGEON·TUESDAY, 24 JANUARY 2017
The Scottish Government welcomes the Supreme Court's ruling that Article 50 cannot be triggered without an Act of Parliament. It is a damning indictment of a UK Government that believed it could press on towards a hard Brexit with no regard to Parliament whatsoever.
It is vital that the Westminster Parliament is now given the fullest possible opportunity to debate and decide upon the triggering of Article 50 and also the terms of the UK's negotiating position. SNP MPs will seek to work with others across the House of Commons to stop the march towards a hard Brexit in its tracks.
We are obviously disappointed with the Supreme Court's ruling in respect of the devolved administrations and the legal enforceability of the Sewel Convention.
It is now crystal clear that the promises made to Scotland by the UK Government about the Sewel Convention and the importance of embedding it in statute were not worth the paper they were written on.
Although the court has concluded that the UK Government is not legally obliged to consult the devolved administrations, there remains a clear political obligation to do so. Indeed, the court itself notes the importance of Sewel as a political convention.
The Scottish Government will bring forward a Legislative Consent Motion and ensure that the Scottish Parliament has the opportunity to vote on whether or not it consents to the triggering of Article 50.
We will also use the meeting of the Joint Ministerial Committee next week to continue to press for the sensible, compromise outcomes set out in the paper we published in December.
However, it is becoming clearer by the day that Scotland's voice is simply not being heard or listened to within the UK. The claims about Scotland being an equal partner are being exposed as nothing more than empty rhetoric and the very foundations of the devolution settlement that are supposed to protect our interests – such as the statutory embedding of the Sewel Convention – are being shown to be worthless.
This raises fundamental issues above and beyond that of EU membership. Is Scotland content for our future to be dictated by an increasingly right-wing Westminster Government with just one MP here – or is it better that we take our future into our own hands? It is becoming ever clearer that this is a choice that Scotland must make.

I think this is critical - especially for the labour party as it can "respect the referendum" but put amendments to the bill that will effectivly wreck it - ie must stay in the single market, must stay in the ECHR, ECJ, etc etc.

given that only 100mps want to leave the EU it should be easily possible to get majorities for the right sort of amendments to protect the UK and the devolved countries form the far right lunacy of the hard leavers

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/scotland-and-wales-can-fk-off-though-court-rules-20170124120862

Thanks Bob.

Well so far today is running 100% in line with expectations.

I can't escape from the conclusion that parliament doesn't think life outside the EU will be that bad.

They are one group of people whose job will be made far far easier by lack of EU regulations.... this is what worries me.

ooohh isnt it nice when a lie comes back to bite the dishonest in the arse?

Labour MP Chuka Umunna says he will be seeking an amendment on the article 50 bill, or the great repeal bill, forcing the government to commit to the Brexit campaign promise that leaving EU would mean £350m extra a week for the NHS.

"They are one group of people whose job will be made far far easier by lack of EU regulations.... this is what worries me."

Wreck the economy, name themselves unelectable to save themselves a bit of admin.

...and that's if you accept being in the EU creates work for MPs, I think it's the opposite, the EU handles loads of stuff governments traditionally handle.

Labour MP Chuka Umunna says he will be seeking an amendment on the article 50 bill, or the great repeal bill, forcing the government to commit to the Brexit campaign promise that leaving EU would mean £350m extra a week for the NHS.

A good point to raise but good luck with that. Didn't the slogan on the bus say "We send the EU £350 million per week. Let's fund the NHS instead"
Not specifically stating that all £350 million would go to NHS but suggesting we could, although it was clearly trying to get people to interpret it as giving NHS $350 million.

Not specifically stating that all £350 million would go to NHS

The bus maybe but this..

[img] [/img]

..couldn't have been much clearer (despite being furiously denied and disowned in the melee that followed).

Not specifically stating that all £350 million would go to NHS but suggesting we could, although it was clearly trying to get people to interpret it as giving NHS $350 million.

"They are one group of people whose job will be made far far easier by lack of EU regulations.... this is what worries me."

And you should be bloody worried!! When we jettison all the EU laws, the politicians get a clean sheet of paper to write what they like to replace them all. Or not.

Just have a look at the people presently involved here... Ian Duncan Smith, David Davis, Liam Fox to name but a few..... then have a read on their previous positions on all manner of subjects like workers rights, and have a think about that for a moment. Have a think about what this 'red tape' they want so desperately to get rid of actually is.

Anyone with anything between their ears should all be absolutely ****ing terrified!!

mike: The defence will be that they weren't promises, because they weren't made by a single political entity. They were more like suggestions, or perhaps alternative facts, and they didn't influence the vote in any way obviously 🙄

Jamba said he'd fund the £350m personally anyway. I heard him.*

*this is an alternative fact

[quote=binners ]"They are one group of people whose job will be made far far easier by lack of EU regulations.... this is what worries me."

And you should be bloody worried!! When we jettison all the EU laws, the politicians get a clean sheet of paper to write what they like to replace them all. Or not.
Just have a look at the people presently involved here... Ian Duncan Smith, David Davis, Liam Fox to name but a few..... then have a read on their previous positions on all manner of subjects like workers rights, and have a think about that for a moment. Have a think about what this 'red tape' they want so desperately to get rid of actually is.
Anyone with anything between their ears should all be absolutely ****ing terrified!!

Fuhrer May...

[img] [/img]
[img] [/img]
[img] [/img]
[img] [/img]

The defence will be that they weren't promises, because they weren't made by a single political entity. They were more like suggestions, or perhaps alternative facts, and they didn't influence the vote in any way obviously

All parties need to think about this one very carefully with i suspect Labour in the worst bind. If the H of C votes against the Brexit vote then the government could easily walk away resulting in chaos until a new election can be run, then god knows what happens.

SNP can go for a new independence vote, but there is no evidence that the polls are turning their way and the have a harder currency case to build and also currently have to deal with a depressed oil sector. Not an easy sell.

Wales also seems to be in a mess with the public supporting OUT against the Labour administration and Plaid who want to be IN.

agreed
I dont think the parties have got their head around the brexit vote

if it continues to define politics, the way it has

I think a few were spooked by the richmond result

a hard brexit could go badly wrong, any future trade deals need to look very good, hence why jamba etc is hoping that Trump will play ball- pinning your hopes on someone like trump is a bit dangerous!

Applies to future scot referendum too, it may not make economic sense but if brexit starts to hurt scotland, people will vote with their hearts to reject a westminster they already distrust