Trump has threatened to put a 35% levy on imports from Mexico. He was taken seriously so the current WTO levels are just a line in the sand that can be moved by anyone big enough to defend the new line.
My bad Europe 743, EU 510
UK would then be 12% of which 37% voted to leave
4.6% of the UK population voted to leave so you were only overestimating 3x there. Well done
[quote=theocb ]Mike. The EU population is around 500million, I think you may be listing population of Europe???
Fair enough, I made the same mistake.
The UK voted to leave which means 65million people are leaving the EU (from the EU point of view, it doesn't matter who voted for which side.)
But that wasn't what you wrote, in case you need reminding (you only have to scroll up a little), what you actually wrote was:
12% of it's population have just asked to leave.
which is patently untrue. I'm sure the EU also recognise how small a % of the UK population actually asked to leave, and I'd hope they might bear that in mind.
I'm sure the EU also recognise how small a % of the UK population actually asked to leave, and I'd hope they might bear that in mind.
fingers crossed
[quote=mikewsmith ]UK would then be 12% of which 37% voted to leave
4.6% of the UK population voted to leave so you were only overestimating 3x there. Well done
You're still making the same mistake with the referendum result, mike - 17.4mn voted Leave, which is 27% of the UK population (even though it's 37% of the electorate), hence the true figure is 3.5%.
Fair enough, I made the same mistake.
and really happy to be fact checked, I made a mistake, came back admitted it and posted the real figures it's really easy that 😉
bugger got me again, end of a very long week here, keep me honest there it's what counts admitting you made a mistake and accepting that you were wrong.
[quote=kimbers ]fingers crossed
Well as I kind of mentioned in passing, I don't need that in order to keep my rights - and apparently I can also enable the same for my children. I'm wondering whether there are enough numbers of us to actually have a significant impact on the stats? (I have to admit I've also not worked out all the implications, given my UK passport has run out and I don't have a photo driving licence would I have any issues with my only form of photo ID being a "foreign" passport?)
jambalaya - Member
@cougar No one on the Remain side was predicting the UK would have best growth in the G7. As Lagrande (IMF) said yesterday they totally underestimated the bouyancy amd resiliance of the UK consumer.
Utter twaddle.
Growth in this context isn't related to success or wealth as it is usually attributed, the "growth" you're referring to is an artifice of increasing costs, not increased buying power in the market. We're simply spending more of our income on the same things we used to due to the catastrophic change in the exchange rate.
[quote=jambalaya ].......... German trade is already down 5% due to £/€ alone add same move again in tariffs and that's a very big problem for an country facing €20-40bn in migrant costs per anum.............
on the German news a couple of nights ago it reported that the countries' last annual economic figures returned a trade surplus (remember when the UK was last in the black!), due in large part, they reckoned, to construction of new accommodation and infrastructure for all the migrants they had taken in!
Jamba
[i] Japanese and Koreans still sell plenty of cars here.[/i]
Go back a few (dozens) pages, we discussed the number of cars produced in the UK by Honda, Nissan, Toyota - and the reason why...
jambalaya » .......... German trade is already down 5% due to £/€ alone add same move again in tariffs and that's a very big problem for an country facing €20-40bn in migrant costs per anum.............
and let's not forget that 40bn number is one of your imaginary ones.
IMO the country has lost sight of the whole reason for Brexit (if there ever was one). A few months down the line and it's problems after problems but people are still defending it. But for what reason?
After all is done what is supposed to happen to us as a country that is better for us, than we have now? Are we supposed to be richer? More equal? Better prospects for our children?
Seems a complete waste of time to me this Brexit thing. Further, while everybody is focused on Brexit other areas of society are being neglected and we will experience a lot of negative unintended consequences.
After all is done what is supposed to happen to us as a country that is better for us, than we have now?
Haven't you been listening? We'll get to take back control! (of a ruined country that we already had control of.)
/sigh. I honestly don't know the answer to that, and whenever I've asked on here the Brexiters change the subject. We seem to be striving for the least worst alternative, far as I can see.
😯 And round and round the BS goes.
I would agree with that but it is still a delicate balance imo, anything overtly protectionist from the EU will also have a negative response from some members and rest of world. The EU message cannot be 'our way or crushed' just as it cannot be 'cherry pick the best bits of membership as you see fit'
The EU will need to look as if they have come out in a position of strength and UK will want to look like they have the same.
A big opportunity for the EU to show true leadership perhaps, 12% of it's population have just asked to leave.
12% of the EU 'have' just asked to leave. It is a fact from the EU's point of view.
I thought my numbers were agreeable facts for any bias and wasn't really the main point of my post but you both are still claiming that in 2 years only the people who individually voted leave are actually going to 'leave' the EU. Bonkers Britain.
There never was a reason, it was just a toxic cocktail of jingoism, xenophobia, wish for a change and a protest against whatever people happened to be feeling unhappy about at the time. There was never anything approaching a coherent plan, rather there was a lot of dog-whistling of different messages to different audiences by people who had no responsibility or authority to make still less deliver promises. Hence why they all ran away the day after the vote, leaving a bunch of zealots to reinterpret the vote as a mandate to do what the **** they want with envirommental, employment and welfare law among other things.
But 'take back control' doesn't actually mean anything. Dictators take control but don't necessarily improve conditions for society/citizens.
No discourse around what it'll actually look like for the individual.
I guess it's kept alot of people busy on this thread chatting about it...Is that a positive thing maybe? 😀
Taking your ball away from the neighbour kids is taking control. It also means you have no-one to play with and hence can't play a good game of football.
[quote=edenvalleyboy ]IMO the country has lost sight of the whole reason for Brexit (if there ever was one). A few months down the line and it's problems after problems but people are still defending it. But for what reason?
I'm not sure the Brexiteers have - for most of them it's all about keeping the foreigners out. Of course they will keep defending it so long as they still believe that will be the outcome. For example somebody who's post I saw on FB who seemed to think Maybe's speech was wonderful suggested that the biggest problem after Brexit would be the "last unclosed border" with Ireland. These people simply can't see beyond that and any price is worth it.
[quote=theocb ]you both are still claiming that in 2 years only the people who individually voted leave are actually going to 'leave' the EU. Bonkers Britain.
<sigh> go on then, quote me where I've suggested that. We were both simply point out that your suggestion that "12% of it's population have just asked to leave" with its implication of weight of feeling the EU should take account of was spin pure and simple.
12% of the EU 'have' just asked to leave. It is a fact from the EU's point of view.
Ah I think see what you're saying here, it's just slightly misleading phrasing. 3.5% of the EU's members voted to leave, but Brexit will remove 12%. (I'm assuming the maths is correct, I've not checked.)
That's quite a large difference in numbers, when you think about it. You'd expect Leave's "massive majority" referendum result to have them much closer together. 8.5% of the EU are being dragged out of anything to do with Europe, either without them expressing a desire to do so or not (either due to non-eligibility or apathy), or expressly against their wishes.
Seems fair.
(I have to admit I've also not worked out all the implications, given my UK passport has run out and I don't have a photo driving licence would I have any issues with my only form of photo ID being a "foreign" passport?
IME no.
It isn't misleading at all. 8) The UK is 'asking' to leave.
The actual point (which seems to be unimportant now) of my 'WHOLE' post was that the EU are losing 12% of it's population so perhaps important for them to show some true leadership.
I'll post it again, context and facts seem fine to me thanks.
I would agree with that but it is still a delicate balance imo, anything overtly protectionist from the EU will also have a negative response from some members and rest of world. The EU message cannot be 'our way or crushed' just as it cannot be 'cherry pick the best bits of membership as you see fit'
The EU will need to look as if they have come out in a position of strength and UK will want to look like they have the same.
A big opportunity for the EU to show true leadership perhaps, 12% of it's population have just asked to leave.
Noddies came along to pick holes in the numbers and got the facts all arse about face, then claimed only 3.5% are actually asking to leave.
flip the coin - how many of us voted to remain?
teamhurtmore - Member
flip the coin - how many of us voted to remain?
about 3.5% 😉
how many of us voted to remain?
Or perhaps even more pertinently, how many of us voted to join?
Or perhaps even more pertinently, how many of us voted to join?
I expect half of them will be dead by now.
Oh, wait, is this a "we didn't have a referendum last time" comment? I know very little about how we joined as I wasn't born.
flip the coin - how many of us voted to remain?
Is that question for me?
Flip what coin, who is 'us'?
Not sure if you asking others to consider their numbers from both sides of a coin or you are asking me about 'individual' votes. The UK voted to leave it didn't vote to remain (you seem to be accepting of this within the thread so I'm assuming you didn't mean the question for me?)
Or perhaps even more pertinently, how many of us voted to join?
about as pertinent as asking how many of us voted to join the UK 🙄
ok skimming in and out of this a the moment
my "understanding' was that the 3.5% figure was being used to question the legitimacy of what we are now doing ie, its is the percentage of the UK pop who voted leave divided by the population of the EU
so on the basis of 3.5% voting out, 12% are now being forced to leave
If correct, proceeed. If not ignore what follows
So my question is simple - 3.5% voting leave is bigger than 3.0% (? havent done the maths) voting to stay. So 12% are being affected by 3.5% instead of 3% - so what?
Of the 12% only x% are eligible to vote - guessing 50% - so 6% and more than half of the 6% voted leave and less voted to stay. Therefore we are leaving. The relationship between 3.5 and 12 is on little if any relevance - or is it?
about as pertinent as asking how many of us voted to join the UK
Good point, anyone who didn't vote to join the UK should consider themselves undemocratic and leave. (-:
Oh, wait, is this a "we didn't have a referendum last time" comment? I know very little about how we joined as I wasn't born.
Not much has changed, an extract from William Waldegrave's memoir
[[url= https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/539/31562543064_466a15d79e_z.jp g" target="_blank">https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/539/31562543064_466a15d79e_z.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/Q65hqY ]waldegrave[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/122646756@N06/ ]mefty[/url], on Flickr
on the German news a couple of nights ago it reported that the countries' last annual economic figures returned a trade surplus (remember when the UK was last in the black!), due in large part, they reckoned, to construction of new accommodation and infrastructure for all the migrants they had taken in!
They have built enough homes to house 600000 people in 12 months, crikey....
Mefty's link, fixed:
[url= https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/539/31562543064_466a15d79e_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/539/31562543064_466a15d79e_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/Q65hqY ]waldegrave[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/122646756@N06/ ]mefty[/url], on Flickr
They have built enough homes to house 600000 people in 12 months, crikey....
Amazing what you can do when you don't [s]sell[/s]give all your building land to a Qatari speculator.
Those Germans can build quick mind. They have had a lot of practice since 1045, and again after reunification... 🙂
But I think the Captain is right. To a large degree many voted for Brexit, not just on the immigration card, but because in just about ALL sections of society, the EU has been used as a convenient boogieman to blame for any unpopular policies or consequences. Take agriculture. All sheep have to be electronically tagged at an extra cost of £1. Sorry, it is the EU making us do this (not the UK in an attempt to give traceability to stop the spread of disease). Can no longer bury dead sheep and have to pay £25 each to have them removed and burnt. Sorry this is an EU regulation. etc etc.
In fisheries. You need to have a quota on the amount of fish you can catch. Blame the EU for that (not the over-fishing as we get better at it and have more mouths to feed).
Austerity? Lost your job? That will be the EU and all those foreigners coming over here......
Regulation in the financial services? That will be the EU.
Well the chickens have come home to roost. The boogieman has been slain. Unfortunately it is starting to dawn on many that maybe he was never there in the first place.
My over-riding memory of the referendum will be a couple of days after the vote, in the market, a farmer came storming out of the pens with a face like thunder, swearing as he went, "I don't ffing believe it. They still expect me to ffing stick tags in the ears of my sheep. I thought I had ffing voted so I wouldn't have to do that any more."
Now change the swearing to anything else you want. BUt I can guarantee there will be a lot of this going on in the coming years.....
Yep, if we continue to do the majority of our trade with the EU, which seems pretty likely, then we'll still have to abide by a lot of EU standards. Only now we won't get to have any say in those standards.
Completely incorrect, the majority of our trade is not with the EU.
about 44% of our exports (goods n services) goes to the EU & 53% of our imports
If you included switzerland in that then it would be but they are in EFTA not the EU, obvs, but does tie them to most EU standards,
http://www.efta.int/eea/policy-areas/goods/standardisation-mra-technical-cooperation/standardisation
making the EU by far our largest trading partner
USA is second with 14%
a quick google for 'proportion of uk trade with eu'
first result is:
'In 2015, 44% of the UK's goods and services were exported to the EU, while 53% of our imports came to the UK from the EU. '
so while i agree mefty you are correct, i'm not sure it's significantly far short to make much difference to the underlying effects of us screwing everything up.
And given imports outweigh exports 44 & 53 probably is the majority.
Completely incorrect, the majority of our trade is not with the EU.
Are you sure?....think you had better check!
[url= https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_largest_trading_partners_of_United_Kingdom ]Wiki link..[/url]
[i]Completely incorrect, the majority of our trade is not with the EU. [/I]
Doesn't matter whether it's a minority or majority, if we don't adhere to their standards we can't sell - same with any country around the world.
Overseas countries have specific regulations and standards for products and services offered for sale in that country.While developing your business plan you will need to take into account the time and cost involved in complying with these.
In some instances, these factors will influence your decision about whether or not to export to a given country.Researching these issues well in advance will help you avoid costly mistakes.
Standards and regulations will vary between countries and also between different types of products or services.
Although your product or service may comply with all the regulations and standards applicable in one country, never assume this will be the case elsewhere.
but majority of our trade is with Europe & swiss & norway out of EU still abide by EU standards
Excellent, none of you spotted the point because you are fixated with the EU. The vast majority of our trade is done with ourselves in our own internal market within our own borders. At present this has to comply with EU rules as we are in the EU, when we leave we can change this.
