I'd hate to be in UK manufacturing right now.
I wouldn't and many of the people who I know who run manufacturing companies are very optimistic this can work well for them.
I would be more worried that we have naff all in terms of materials or raw materials or people who will have money to buy manufactured goods made here or abroad.
Britain may just become one big country of backyard farmers.
One thing that will be interesting is that if it doesn't go tits up and does actually work out , who else will leave the EU?
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-news-trade-deal-us-uk-donald-trump-theresa-may-threat-nhs-environment-food-safety-a7529836.html
Indie stating the bleeding obvious again...
This is all working out quite nicely for repaying my mortgage in the UK..... my loan value has dropped 35K (if I pay it back in Australian dollarydoos) since the leave vote.
Keep at it with the negative headlines please
"accepting that the road ahead will be uncertain at time, but believing that it leads towards a brighter future for their children"
Well, in my case apparently a bright future for my child who can no longer live in the same country as her mother. Still, it's the economy that counts, eh?
I wasn't suggesting there was, I was saying it is up to us to try and benefit form the new situation.
Mefty - good luck with that. And sorry for suggesting you were a Brexmaniac. You are of course free to change course on a whim and go with the latest bandwagon.
Me, saying strong, still remain. Not moaning about the referendum (I questioned whether referenda were a good idea in a democracy a long time ago, and I think we can see now that they aren't) - though I am angry that MPs that we pay as representatives are acting as delegates.
Anyone in Bristol West? We voted about 80% remain but Thangam is just checking no one has changed their mind on the vote. A actually a real chance to do something although it is open to abuse
http://www.debbonaire.co.uk/how_should_i_vote_on_article_50
Aaaah, the Today programme, home of all the best Freudian slips.
Anyone else spot Paul Nuttall reassuring the nation that we are at the front of the queue because Trump is an Anglophobe? Smooooth! 8)
Is the Anglo but the slip (this being the UK) or the phobe bit (well ok, that bit almost definitely is - although perhaps in UKIP phobe and phobic are generally regarded as good traits, I don't know)?
Shall we call it two mistakes in the one word? Impressive.
He's not going to become the popular entertainer that Farage is, is he.
Inflation still low but up by a third in a month. Welcome to Brexit poundland.
May's speech:
"It means taking the opportunity of this great moment of national change to step back and ask ourselves what kind of country we want to be."
Interesting choice of words that, [i]"ask ourselves"[/i] rather than [i]"ask you"[/i]. 😕
I'd take issue with "great moment" - "debacle" might be better.
Nothing really wrong with "great" - In the sense that it is just "an extent, amount, or intensity considerably above average" ([url= https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/great ]OED[/url]), rather than implying "good".
But she definitely misspelled "clusterf***" 🙂
A "moment" that has lasted at least 6 months so far though! 😆
#GeologicalTime
I like
Leave voters voted with their eyes open.
Wtf?
[i]@kelvin, the US spends 3.7% GDP (and US GDP is a big number !). The NATO commitment is 2%, pay up or leave seems a resonable stance imho.[/I]
Just because the US spends so much you expect the rest to also? Absolute waste of money, plus also remember that a lot of what is in the US's "defence" budget sits in other budgets in other countries. e.g. Veterans at $150bn and 350,000 employees. So lets compare Apples with Apples.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_Veterans_Affairs
[quote=mefty ]there is no point in hard wiring a worse position than we have now
There is no other possibility. The only question is whether we have a worse position or a much worse position - there seems no sense to me in going for the much worse option, simply because the other alternative is worse than what we have now. As THM says, that has gone.
Personally I'd not be at all averse to a Norway style deal - in fact I'd be tempted to suggest there are at least some positives from that, whilst the negatives impacts aren't all that big.
Just because the US spends so much you expect the rest to also? Absolute waste of money, plus also remember that a lot of what is in the US's "defence" budget sits in other budgets in other countries. e.g. Veterans at $150bn and 350,000 employees. So lets compare Apples with Apples.
And don't forget the effective subsidy to industry (eg Boeing) that is included in the US defence budget.
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I would like the PM to deal with these points in her upcoming speech, they seem a little at odds with recent statements from her and her ministers. A simple explanation of why they're no longer true, or why they no longer matter would be nice.
Leave voters voted with their eyes open.
There were a few comments from Brexiters on the Guardian article this morning along the lines of "I didn't vote for this- it said 'leave the EU' on the ballot paper and that's the only thing I voted for."
I found it hard to square those two things.
they no longer matter because she thinks she's going to lose the court case appeal and perhaps she thinks, however illogical it sounds, a hard brexit will be easier to get through the HoC,
She was a remainer. She "may" have faults but she is not stupid
She is now PM executing a promise that the government made
She sees no distinction between hard and soft Brexshit
What does she need to explain ?
What does she need to explain ?
how its going to make the country a better place?
'leaving the EU' is open to so many shades of grey that she can interpret that in any way she likes (except shes going with the loop shes been stuck in since the home office, down with ECJ & immigration)
The only question is whether we have a worse position or a much worse position
In your point of view, it is not one I share.
That supreme court case is taking a while to come back isn't it?
Indicates an interesting judgement perhaps? Or just a long Christmas break?
[quote=teamhurtmore ]She was a remainer.
You keep writing this - presumably because she campaigned on the Remain side. She has however in the past expressed distinctly Eurosceptic views. I suppose you could start to get the impression that she'll say whatever is best for her career.
Ultimately as you say, she is not stupid, and ultimately I'm not sure why there is any confusion about what [b]her[/b] aims are...
What does she need to explain ?
Why she's now leading the country in a direction she believes will make it less prosperous, less secure and less influential.
[quote=mefty ]In your point of view, it is not one I share.
Well now I'm really confused - you claim to have voted Remain, yet you think we'll be in a better position after leaving? I note that pretty much anybody who knows what they're talking about does share my POV - including for example that Cambridge report which even jamba seems keen on.
She was a remainer. She "may" have faults but she is not stupid
You say she was a remainer, but take a look at her history and i see someone who picked the side she thought would win. Just as opportunistic as the rest. Take a look at her history at the home office, anti european courts and immigration. Now she is in the position to eliminate both and is doing so.
can we change the thread name to.....
EU Referendum - are you hard or soft? -
She is executing the result of the vote, as promised. She has to make the best of a bad job. That is what a she is trying to do.
I'm a euro sceptic, esp re the Euro, but a remainer too. Perfectly logical. The EU is essentially about trade and investment. Both are/were best served as a member of the EU. But that is history. We are now in a different world.
can we have maggie back?
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To misquote the Pet Shop Boys - which do you choose, the hard or soft exit
The EU is essentially about trade and investment.
And i would argue the EU is about far more than trade.
One thing that has been puzzling me recently: I've heard a lot of talk recently about how Brexit (and Trump) are part of an anti-globalisation backlash and how global markets have apparently screwed some people over.
Which seems like a reasonable analysis.
But how does that fit with us wanting to leave the EU so that we can set up free trade deals with other countries? Isn't that just more globalisation but with different nations, or am I misunderstanding what people mean by globalisation?
[quote=teamhurtmore ]I'm a euro sceptic, esp re the Euro, but a remainer too. Perfectly logical. The EU is essentially about trade and investment. Both are/were best served as a member of the EU. But that is history. We are now in a different world.
Me too. Though I'm also in favour of free movement of people if that's a separate issue. The trouble is people were sold the idea that it was about other things. Well I suppose it is (and that's part of what I dislike about it), but none of them anywhere near as important as the trade. Though I suppose to some extent this whole mess up has made me more of a Europhile (or just clarified my opinions about what is actually important), and I'd far rather we became part of a European superstate with everything dictated by Brussels than where we seem to be headed.
Here's "her" explanation....
(As above I am also in favour of FoM)
And now the Brexshit is Brexshit bit..
May spot on. As a nation used to holding our Parliament to account the supra-national agencies such as the EU do not sit easily with many in Britain and their sense in Democracy. Brexit is a moment to allow us to focus ourselves globally, to expand our relations accross the world.
[quote=GrahamS ]Isn't that just more globalisation but with different nations, or am I misunderstanding what people mean by globalisation?
I think it's other people misunderstanding what is meant by globalisation, what that means for them, and how best to stop it. I suppose as I wrote above, I've come to wonder whether having separate countries is even a good thing - which may make me in favour of globalisation in the most literal sense, though I think what people are mostly against is large companies taking over the world, something I'm also against, but Brexit/Trump appear to be particularly rubbish ways to try and stop that.
As a nation used to holding our Parliament to account
hahahahahahaha.
aha.
ha.
😥
But how does that fit with us wanting to leave the EU so that we can set up free trade deals with other countries? Isn't that just more globalisation but with different nations, or am I misunderstanding what people mean by globalisation?
It doesn't, but since when does that matter?
In the new world order what is the point of the unemployable? Look at the UK we have effective full employment, yes some people might not be happy with their jobs but how does leaving the EU remove the need for employees to fill crap jobs and to fill good jobs? It doesn't make an illiterate school drop out the ideal candidate to be a surgeon.
[quote=jambalaya ]May spot on.
MRDA
Just found €10 in a drawer. Fully expecting it to be my most valuable possession in about half an hour...
Rachel
There will be a Parliamentary vote in both Houses on the final deal. Smoke and Mirrors really as it will be too late to change it in practical terms, also a trap for opposition parties shortly ahead of 2020 GE
EDIT: also the vote on the deal makes it abaolutely impossible in my view for the A50 vote to be blocked (minimal chance anyway), IMO that's a done deal now. Smart move 🙂
@allthegear I have a £15 / 15€ bid on that lovely motorbike of yours 😉 what bike's do you have ?
