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We have just been through a very extended economic cycle (albeit lower than past ones) and we are about to go through a slowdown as a natural part of business cycles - growth but lower that recently.
To date, the main impact has been £ and kook on effect on inflation and real wages which makes it difficult for the Bank of England to stop stealing. But in November they will at least pare it back to petty pilfering
Any takers?
Everything is fine. Anyone who disagrees should be sacked as not being a true believer. Farage can be brought back to be in charge of the holy inquisition.
Remember if it doesnt go well then it is johnny foreigners and those traitors inside Britain fault.
Ah the Bank ogf england are stealing because interest rates are low lie rears its head once more.the Bank of England to stop stealing
Its not been stolen for that would be an illegal act ...anyway back to lecturing us on our "fantasy" views and our hyerbole
Top troll though 8/10
It's far from fine. We haven't even started negotiating on trade and the Eu show little sign of wanting to. Bizarre bunch....
On the longstanding forum users thread THM ( from what I can see) admits deliberately trolling on this thread
More lies TJ ?
I merely commented on the comedy value of reading the stuff that gets made up on here.
The list is endless. Makes commuting much more fun
and he still replies to me despite me not seeing his posts ( I looked at Dracs retort to his post on that thread). I could explain why he behaves like this 'cos its completely obvious but arguing with this tedious troll got me banned before. Hence the blocking of the troll
At least there was some good news today
But he [Barnier]said there had been no negotiations on the issue this week because the UK was not ready to spell out what it would pay
Looks like our boys and girls are learning on the job
Isnt UK the largest export destination of nearly all the remaining EU countries as well as there being a trade balance if their favours? That's a pretty massive and unmoveable incentive to be sensible.
They need our military and security services.
Frankly, most of them will be happier with UK gone. We have been the late adopter of most EU stuff ever since we joined so they can all crack on with their plans more easily with us gone. Except they wont have quite as much of our cash to play with.
I was quite cheered to chat to some people recently who had voted remain but would now vote brexit due to be annoyed at arrogant attitude of Barnier and the rest of the EU elite / drunk belgian bloke. Sadly this seems to be lost on the Bc who continue to recycle without question all the guff coming out of Brussels every day.
NOpe - the uK is not the largest export market for much if anything. thats a myth. Neither do they need our military or security services so much as to make them break the foundations of the EU. the 4 freedoms remain indivisible despite what the leave loons still try to claim.
the EU will take a minor dip if we leave. the UK will be wrecked.
among many reasons....
The list is long....
You post that and have the cheek to call others trolls! Amazing.
Anyone interested in the truth would know or be interested to know that the U.K. is the EUs second largest market for exports of goods and services just behind US and ahead of China - excluding infra EU trade.
A minor technicality
Isnt UK the largest export destination of nearly all the remaining EU countries
Germany biggest is USA, the France then UK
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_largest_trading_partners_of_Germany
France we are 5th
http://www.worldstopexports.com/frances-top-import-partners/
It's sounds like your Brexit converts are just as misinformed as you hh !
the they need us more than we need them argument really does not hold up to analysis
44% of our exports 8% of theirs. There is no way to spin this as them needing us more. NONE.
well said chaps - its another one of the brexshitters lies that "they need us". Tory boys would have you believe that its true. Unfortunately for them the facts are clear
It's far from fine. We haven't even started negotiating on trade and the Eu show little sign of wanting to. Bizarre bunch...
Sherpas draft conclusions for upcoming EU Brexit meeting which has been leaked to the FT suggests they are going to start internal preparations. Interesting to see if this survives the meeting.
Was that the main FT article now on web version? The prep bit still seemed some way off if I read it correctly
Sherpas?
I believe 2017 is the 500yr anniversary of the reformation.
That was the last time we told European authority to do one and the similarities are remarkable, even to having a leader who isn't really bought into the idea.
If you overlook the first 100yrs of bloodshed torture, burning at the stake and general persecution of anyone who didnt tow the line it all worked out ok in the end.
And of course worth remembering very few people care about either side of that argument now.
So for me, whilst I voted in and believe in the short(20/30yrs) term we would be better off in I cant help but have some sympathy with lets get on with suggestion from the brexiteers.
TBH I care more about clean air to breath and affordable homes for my kids than I do whether the politicians are in Westminster of Brussels.
They’ll still be bloody useless either way.
The Brexiters promised a clean & easy break, there was no mention of a divorce bill, transitions and all the messy details.
Right up until the talks started Davis was saying we'd get trade talks first, the Tories have backed themselves into a corner, they'll have to concede or we get the cliff edge Brexit that will harm both sides.
Madness
The German car makers think differently - the UK is their largest export market, so not surprising. Another mere technicality
And BaFIN warning German insurers that they need to prepare to avoid big losses.
Trifles...
I cant help but have some sympathy with lets get on with suggestion from the brexiteers.
TBH I care more about clean air to breath and affordable homes for my kids
That's the problem
Let's get on with it isn't an option
Brexies dont want to hear that the government have had to hire 1000s of new civil servants or that we still need to hire 1000s more (after the Tories spent the last 7 years getting rid of 1000s !)
Or that 80% of DEFRAs work is now taken up with Brexit so there's no room to worry about clean air or building houses....
Was that the main FT article now on web version? The prep bit still seemed some way off if I read it correctly
Only seen source document, prefer primary sources
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Sherpas?
[url= https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/feb/17/meet-the-sherpas-the-key-people-quietly-negotiating-uk-eu-reforms ]Sherpas [/url](old article illustrating who they are, other European governments will be involved too pre-summit)
Thanks Mefty _ FT summary not far off
More insignificant observations from Hanldesblatt
“German companies that have a connection with the UK and Northern Ireland must now take precautions for a very hard departure” of Britain from the EU, scheduled for March 2019, Mr. Lang told journalists. German firms, he added, sense a “sword of Damocles of insecurity is hanging over them, but they are also exposed to the danger of a massive devaluation” of the British pound against the euro.
Still nothing to worry about
The German car makers think differently - the UK is their largest export market, so not surprising. Another mere technicality
I was listening a German business analyst recently who said quite the opposite, German business leaders value the integrity and stability of the European market way more than clean access to the UK.
[quote=teamhurtmore ]The UK has to make the EU think we will walk away. Otherwise they will not negotiate properly
The EU already know it's not in our best interests to walk away. They've also worked out by now that we're incompetent enough to do it. It's not a negotiating strategy, and it's not a zero sum game - the best deal will be done by negotiating properly with them, not by making a very bad job of trying to blackmail them.
Sure it's not in the interests of the EU for us to leave with no deal, but what they also know is that it's worse for us than them - it's not an incredibly strong negotiating position to take!
that typifies both parties involved.
You write that as if there is no logic to the position of either side. The EU position is entirely logical, and they have yet to do anything which wasn't predicted on here several hundred pages ago.
Though I have to admit I am now wondering whether the conspiracy theory is true and that the whole thing is being deliberately engineered and the whole UK strategy is actually entirely logical. Because what is the #1 priority of the Tory party? Re-election - a successful Brexit isn't even a subsidary aim if it doesn't help their electoral chances. As mentioned above, the best possible strategy for them might be to sabotage it in a way where they can pass the blame.
[quote=teamhurtmore ]It's far from fine. We haven't even started negotiating on trade and the Eu show little sign of wanting to. Bizarre bunch....
As you keep saying, as if they should abandon a position they stated on day 1 - a position which was accepted by DD on day 1. It's not the EU which has made no progress at all towards that point.
sorry aracer but you are missing (some of) the key issues here
1[b]. It is a zero some game. [/b]The EU has made it very clear that the Uk position after Brexshit must be weaker than it is now. There is no ambiguity there. There is irony of course, since in protecting the project, or at least pretending to, they lose out too. But path, who cares about details....
2. Brexshit is bad for both parties. The relative arguments are crass, oversimplified (see ^) and unhelpful. Given (1) the mindset is not focused on delivering a win:win its focusd on a win:lose. It will end up most likely as a lose:lose
3. There is logic to both sides. The EU - yes as predicted - create scenarios in which they can delay dealing with the core issues for as long as possible. They have precedent here, we knew this was coming and their intransigence is utterly predictable. What is not predictable is the point at which we move to proper negotiations on the cores issues. It seems that some brinkmanship and willy waving is required first. Ditto for us, it would be foolhardy to agree financial terms up front - other than to agree in principle (tick) - and to weaken the interest of UK citizens through some foolhardy gesturing.
4. The Tories are already probably doomed by this. An unsuccessful Brexshit confirms this. A successful one might just save them. But tough call. As ever Europe will bring them down in the end. Like night follows day. But it's absurd to claim that they WANT this to fail.
5. You miss, finally, Barnier's acknowledgement that progress had been made in other areas. Of course, and we shouldn't miss this, the main stumbling block is our reluctance to bend over to the "we [s]need[/s] want your cash" demands.
6. As you were...
Still going well?
Ministers have been forced to postpone next week’s debate on the EU withdrawal bill on a chaotic day that saw Michel Barnier warn of a “disturbing deadlock” in the divorce talks in Brussels and a growing whispering campaign against the chancellor in Westminster.Andrea Leadsom, the leader of the House of Commons, told MPs the key piece of Brexit legislation would not be debated next week, as they had planned, as the government struggles to respond to a deluge of hostile amendments.
Labour said it had identified more than a dozen of the 300 amendments that already have the backing of seven or more Tory MPs, theoretically enough to defeat the government.
Barnier made clear that he was not ready to recommend that talks on a future trading relationship begin now, as the UK had hoped.The main stumbling block continues to be the UK’s refusal to accept the EU’s analysis of what it will owe on leaving the bloc in March 2019. Barnier said at the end of the fifth round of talks that there was no question of him making “concessions”.
Mefty
The document, seen by the Guardian, suggests the president of the European council, Donald Tusk, will invite Barnier, and its member states to start drawing up a vision for the future trading relationship and the transition period in order to be ready for December, [b][i]should sufficient progress have been made by then.[/i][/b]
So the undemocrats have the upper hand? If we can't win the vote, we can at least kill the process ......the voters must not prevail 😉
Though I have to admit I am now wondering whether the conspiracy theory is true and that the whole thing is being deliberately engineered and the whole UK strategy is actually entirely logical.
I said this on here months ago and was shouted down by posters who no longer post here- the Tory government stands to win and win big if they can crash us out on a no deal basis- it’s entirely in keeping with their overall objectives.
No deal is the plan.
1. It is a zero some game
There is irony of course, since in protecting the project, or at least pretending to, they lose out too. ....
"comedy gold " is the term used, I think.
It's not hard to reconcile. You can have a zero sum game in a shrinking pool.
[url= https://i.imgflip.com/1xj8rs.jp g" target="_blank">https://i.imgflip.com/1xj8rs.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://imgflip.com/memegenerator ]via Imgflip Meme Generator[/url]
😀
You can. But not if both sides lose.
I guess that's what Brexit is - a negative sum game.
Brexie strategy now seems to be "it'll hurt us more but it'll hurt you too so suck it up, Europe".
Perhaps not the smartest strategy to take with our neighbours, partners and, to me (I realise I am an outlier and enemy of the people!), friends.
Perhaps they need to cotton on the Napoleonic era was 200 years ago.
So the undemocrats have the upper hand? If we can't win the vote, we can at least kill the process
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It's just, the usual Tory infighting over Europe, who cares if it leaves 1000s of EU citizens in limbo (including Brit expats) puts the willies up business,paralysed UK gov ability to legislate, causes more inflation to hit the poorest and has banks moving jobs to EU 😯
Are the remainers trying to sabotage talks so that it gets called off, whilst swivel eyed brexies trying to sabotage it so we have a hard one?
If there are any sensible heads leftover in the Tory party can they strike a fudged deal at the 11th hour? (How many businesses already left UK by then?)
I think all that is happening is May is trying to cling to power and the Tories have about 17 different messages and messengers
There is no plan May wants to stay PM, Boris wants to be the next PM, Hammond wants to make the best possible deal from a shit position, DD wants to God knows actually what he wants, etc
The idea that the Tory party could engineer all this to force no deal fails Hanlons razor. The reality is they are in a mess, they have divergent voices, divergent power bases, divergent agendas and a PM trying to appease these divergent sides to cling to power.
I think there is a tinge of empire hubris thrown in on all sides where they really do believe Mighty UK can make the EU kowtow to us. Never underestimate the arrogance of a Tory or their faith in the massive power of the UK or their faith in their own skills to achieve things - the privileged pricks just dont live in the real world. Reality is going to disappoint them massively and they sure as hell wont take it as personal failure but will have been thwarted by the evil Uk trying to cripple us aided by the traitor remoaners.
None of this will help bring unity to the UK
No there's no grand plan, just a bunch of individuals or small cells pulling in their own directions.
If the swivel-eyed racist loonies get their way and Hammond is gone, then the way the tub-thumping petty xenophobia and flag-waving is being ratcheted up, we'll probably have declared war on France by the end of next week
On a positive note, when the Daily Mail gets itself worked up into so much of a lather, its usually because things aren't going their way. Which can only ever be a good thing
we'll probably have declared war on France by the end of next week
As a good patriot, remember Agincourt, and remember Aquitaine belongs to the English Crown and not the French! We want to revenge for Castillon
remember Agincourt
it was a bit before my time.
Are the remainers trying to sabotage talks so that it gets called off, whilst swivel eyed brexies trying to sabotage it so we have a hard one?
Yes. So most posters here will be happy with the former.
In the meantime, the real players - mefty's Sherpas and business folk - are the one in the driving seat rather than the noise makers that the papers focus on. Who GAF what Nigel Lawson thinks now???
Oh look - more polling showing and increasing amount of people would vote remain now.
More facts to get in the way of the righties fantasies. Why do you think tyhe outies are so hysterical about the prospect of another referendum? Its because they know they would lose
A YouGov survey found that only 42% of respondents think it is right to leave the EU, compared with 47% who think it is wrong. This is the biggest gap in favour of remaining in the EU since the referendum in June.
"The government has argued that publishing the reports could damage the UK’s negotiating position.".
So they're -ve then. If they were +ve, why would that damage the UK's position?
SHH its a big secret that we will be worse off and we should not let on to the EU ,they are completely oblivious to this fact and think they need us more than we need them.
Why do you think the outies are so hysterical about the prospect of another referendum? Its because they know they would lose
I actually agree with this.
no it's because they love democracy. just enough democracy, mind you, and no more.
😆
And yet, whatever their voting history the last you gov poll showed that 70% think that the government should still proceed with Brexit - including what they call a large number of "re-leavers", those who voted remain but accept the vote. This category was larger than the hard [s]remoaners[/s] remainers
So on we go.....
Brexshit is going to happen.
Brexshit is going to happen.
never give up hope THM, thats defeatist, wheres your bulldog spirit ? 😉
Not very churchillian is it
Inside track - Germans playing hard ball, but Dutch and Danes pushing for more conciliatory tone. Dutch scared that hard Brexshit will take 2% of THEIR GDP - opps!
Barnier also wants to get on with trade but Germans pushing hard for not just the £20bn but a multiple of that for the unfunded - don't you just love that idea - pension liabilities
So my sources suggest that Frau Compromise is far from compromising at the moment. Schade....
remember Agincourt
Ah yes, If I remember correctly, this little battle ended in victory in a wider war where by the end of it we only had Calais left out of "our" French territory's.
Sounds terribly brexity.
And yet, whatever their voting history the last you gov poll showed that 70% think that the government should still proceed with Brexit - including what they call a large number of "re-leavers", those who voted remain but accept the vote. This category was larger than the hard remoaners remainers
If you want a proper poll instead of the nonsense you keep spouting, [url= http://www.gqrr.com/articles/2017/10/5/brexit-single-market-membership-may-be-possible-but-the-barriers-are-significant ]look here.[/url]
Interesting link, thx.
Frankly I don't give too much credence to polls just putting the silly stuff ^ into context.
Brexshit will happen, the only uncertainty is under what terms and when.
It appears inevitable that most if not all voters will be disappointed with whatever form Brexit takes.
Democracy eh? Works perfectly!
Let's get this straight - Brexit must happen, I have not put up with all the bollocks not to have my "high horse, pointy finger, told you so" moment!
I need to see the lesson unfold, then and only then can the great patriotic war of the people commence. The great purge....
Guys - don't feed the troll
😀
[quote=tjagain ]Guys - don't feed the troll
only 23 posts to go though...
23 really
I reckon 12
😀
Until the great Purge?
It's like musical chairs, who will claim the "1000"
NICE TRY
..but no cigar!
Not yet
this is a useless post just to get the post count up
You gotta try
[no change there 😉 ]
But so is this - 4 to go?
What the hell
Let's try and fail
Can I just say that this is the first time I have posted on this thread today?
Or isn't there enough time?
Artichoke.
Hatstand.
Chutney ferret
I'll stop now. 😀
Why?
Are we at 1000…?
[quote=teamhurtmore ]23 really
I reckon 12
You never were very good at counting