Oh, and Jamba, I'm still waiting for you to elaborate on which bits of that several hundred page legal paper you're objecting to. Just a reminder, you seem to have forgotten.
[quote=molgrips ]If this is anything other than meaningless platitudes
"Brexit means Brexit"
"red white and blue Brexit"
I'm sure that's not at all likely.
Well I have no idea what colour, texture or sound of Brexit we are going to get. I think I have that much in common with Mrs. May.
...and our European partners
Cougar, I did say earlier BEFORE I posted it. As an EU based asset manager those rules applied to me even if the assets I bought and clients I served where outside the EU (90% of client money was outside the EU) I repeatedly tried to get business moved to NYC but was told regulations would still aplly as HQ was in EU. I had fewer deals to chose from and they had lower returns due to these rules. My competitors where all outside the EU and at no such disadvantage.
On migration look at the history, EU migration started ramping up when Poland joined (many EU Nations inc Germany had restrictions on freedom of movement from Poland initially btw, Blair said theybweren't necessary). EU migration increased 50% from 2012 to 2016. We have no control over this. Sir Keith Starmer was talking about it just the other day. Corbyn and Abbott aside Labour get it now, the Referendum saw to it.
Captain it's not so much about the existance of regulations as the absolute non-compliance, the EU simply does not enforce the rules. We are pretty law abiding in this country, there are parts of the EU where it's frankly considered optional. Despite non-compliance EU members have complete free access. The EU/ECB was either woefully negligent (unlikley) or just turning a blind eye with Greek rule breaking with regard to eurozone debt. Same issue just multiplied a thousand fold.
[i]Cougar, I did say earlier BEFORE I posted it. As an EU based asset manager those rules applied to me even if the assets I bought and clients I served where outside the EU (90% of client money was outside the EU) I repeatedly tried to get business moved to NYC but was told regulations would still aplly as HQ was in EU. I had fewer deals to chose from and they had lower returns due to these rules. My competitors where all outside the EU and at no such disadvantage.[/i]
Ok, but you could've just resigned and gone and joined one of these non-EU companies?
I'm not sure that answers the question, jamba - exactly what rules in that document caused you problems? A quick summary would be handy (though from what you say, you appear to essentially be arguing for zero regulation, which I suspect you're the only person on here to think to be a good thing - and I doubt many of the Leave voters would think it a good thing).
Regarding the last para, would an option for Brexit which solves the issue be to remain part of the EU, but follow other countries in ignoring all the rules? Assuming of course that's not largely an urban myth propagated by the Torygraph.
We have no control over this.
But… you just blamed a UK PM for not using the controls he had available to him, and pointed out that other nations did use those controls, the EU didn't stop them.
We are pretty law abiding in this country, there are parts of the EU where it's frankly considered optional.
Remind me, how much have UK banks had to pay in compensation and fines since 2011?
So after Brexit , no more financial regulations , great for the few who have a few millions to invest , and who is going to bail them out when it goes wrong like in 2007/2008 ?
Immigration , you said it yourself , UK PM decided not to impose restrictions . The UK economy needs low paid workers . the low rate of unemployment is the prefect proof of this .
My competitors where all outside the EU and at no such disadvantage.
But are the regulations actually bad things?
Well intentioned possibly, terribly executed.
Junker. Further evidence (if any was actually needed) that Junker was personally involved in obstructing EU tax investigations and tax law.
The president of the European commission, Jean-Claude Juncker, spent years in his previous role as Luxembourg’s prime minister secretly blocking EU efforts to tackle tax avoidance by multinational corporations, leaked documents reveal.
Years’ worth of confidential German diplomatic cables provide a candid account of Luxembourg’s obstructive manoeuvres inside one of Brussels’ most secretive committees.
Honestly, why does anyone EVER believe anything any of these sh1sters say
other than a cull of the whole political class/ elite what can we do
But are the regulations actually bad things?
Yes, in the eyes of the bank. Do you remember the googd times of 2007 (and earlier), high rewards and even higher risks. What could possibly go wrong? I mean these bankers know what they're doing, don't they?
I can't even see Jamba saying that the banks would self regulate and that a global banking crisis would never happen again. That's why an outside entity needs to set regulations.
How can losing business to nonEU competition NOT have a negative on Jamba personally, as he so oft claims?
We are pretty law abiding in this country, there are parts of the EU where it's frankly considered optional.
Apart from the examples given that we too know how to treat animals, I wonder what the fox hunt brigade did as they quietly accpeted the fox hunting ban on Boxing Day.
Again you fail to see one of the great functions of the EU. You really should get out more. I'll give you a clue on this one, this time. They don't throw donkeys from church steeples anymore in Spain, and there was little protest about this. #Education.
I'm surprised you don't understand this as the Empire did so much good in educating the [s]captives[/s] [s]natives[/s] [s]subjects[/s] locals. Would India have such levels of education without UK intervention?
Honestly, why does anyone EVER believe anything any of these sh1sters say
I wonder whether anyone has considered asking Mike Ashley. 😕
Gerald Coyne standing against Len McClusky for head of Unite Union says control over our borders / immigration is a key "Brexit Red Line"
You'd think that juncker, ukip and Tory MEPs would be natural allies as they both have a history of trying to block EU tax avoidance clampdowns
http://www.libdemvoice.org/opinion-ukip-vote-against-eu-tackling-tax-evasion-34651.html
it's not so much about the existance of regulations as [b]the absolute non-compliance[/b], the EU simply does not enforce the rules.
[b]We are pretty law abiding in this country[/b], there are parts of the EU where it's frankly considered optional.
so we comply with EU regulations, but there is absolute non-compliance with EU regulations. 😕
I can start to see why some people think your arguments are confused.
EU regulations pass in to nation state's law, and individual nations are responsible for enforcement of these rules. it's not that complicated is it? i imagine now that the investigative journos in your fois gras example have done the story and got the publicity this practice will be significantly reduced in poland.
the EU is on a journey and it is far from complete, mainly because of the nationalistic bleating of those who can afford it.
Del - MemberEU regulations pass in to nation state's law, and individual nations are responsible for enforcement of these rules. it's not that complicated is it?
They can keep their EU regulations coz there is no need for them to exist.
the EU is on a journey and it is far from complete, mainly because of the nationalistic bleating of those who can afford it.
You might as well say that we are still coming out of ice age with that argument coz there is no end and no beginning apart from your own view. This journey will end soon. Very soon.
They can keep their EU regulations coz there is no need for them to exist.
How about cleaner beaches?
Uniform safety standards?
Cross European standards that mean you know what an electrical item will comform to, when each country has its own the world gets more complex.
And quite simply the UK will still have to comply with thousands of eu regs to continue trading.
Rupe wanted us to leave the EU, according to Major.
So many seem opposed to 'Brussels' teling us what to do that they can't see the wood for the trees.
Foreign nationals, coming over here from Australia*, wanting us to change our country's stance on things just so they can make money.... 😉
*other countries are available.
Jamba, thanks for the link showing how combating tax avoidance at a purely national level is impossible, and why people while running a country will fight against measures to reduce it (be it Lux, or indeed say, the UK or Irish governments).
They can keep their EU regulations coz there is no need for them to exist.
Absolutely right, there is no need for them to exist. Come to think of it we probably don't need UK laws and regulations. Let's go the whole hog and start up a bit of anarchy. That'd be so cool. Do what I want, when I want and screw you. Then we'll get proper survival of the fittest, won't we?
On the other hand we can look at improving ourselves and others around us, we can looking at living in harmony (peace and love, bro!) and help each other to get wealthier.
I think you've got it sussed though, kick everyone until they're on the ground and then tell them to shut up beacause they're all equal now! 🙄
EU directives are the law and mostly written by consultancies employed by the EU, they often have no idea of the subject (in my experience).
Standards are not the law, they just guidance to work to and are often written by industry based representives (CEN committees for example).
Also EU directives are enforced by each individual EU state.
Punishment for breaking an EU directive is what is deemed to be proportionate by the member state.
We'll have the same system in a free Yorkshire, if you want to sell your stuff in gods country the number of consultants will be of EU proportions. Each one will be open serious discussions on whatever production service is to be imported, these meeting will take place at the Riverhead Marsden over numerous thought inducing pints of bitter
Edit, I must avoid posting after a lunchtime pint.
captainsasquatch - MemberI can't even see Jamba saying that the banks would self regulate and that a global banking crisis would never happen again.
The "more, better capitalism" crowd are still out there in force tbh. I've never been sure whether they genuinely believe it or if it's just a tactic so they can say "abolish all regulation" without seeming like nutters.
I remember one guy saying that if it weren't for all the wasted resources banks had to put into evading regulation and hiding abuse, none of the banks would have gone out of business 😆 But more common and no less ridiculous is the idea that banks only acted poorly because of regulation; the abolition would mean they'd have no choice but to act responsibly. I think few of these people have kids, or at least, few that survive to adulthood.
Captain I have been pretty clear I think bank regulation (or lack of) was a major cause of the crises. It could definitely happen again, in fact I'd say probably based upon a eurozone collapse. Banks can hold eurozone debt with zero capital against it, ie it is totally risk free from a regulatory perspective.
@kelvin I have long said you cannot address corporate tax avoidance within the EU and that in fact it encourages it.
i suppose once out of the EU we can deregulate the hell out of our financial services so we can compete better for a bigger slice of that corporate tax avoidance pie, right?you cannot address corporate tax avoidance within the EU and that in fact it encourages it
Tax avoidance/evasion can only be addressed on a coordinated basis. That is obvious. So Brexshit makes this much harder not easier.
The crisis was ultimately caused by Central Banks flooding the market (to redress previous policy failures) at a time of artificially low interest rates. This lead to a massive mis-pricing of risk globally. The rest was noise. Of course, no one would be silly enough to repeat that mistake would they?
That is obvious.
You'd think that it would be.
But coordination is out, magically fixing things with wishful thinking at a purely national level is in.
Apparently.
Coordination. I guess that's the point you can't even get 28 countries which are part of a close economic and politial union to agree a policy for the common good. Lux and Ireland are prepared to screw the rest for 10's if not 100's of billions for a marginal local gain.
Brexit Britain with licencing for internet services (inc advertising taxes) and technology sales which dictate UK plc and tight controls on transfer pricing and allowable expenses (eg offshore licence fees). We couod certainky do a lot better than we have currently
mikewsmith - Member
How about cleaner beaches?
Uniform safety standards?
Cross European standards that mean you know what an electrical item will comform to, when each country has its own the world gets more complex.
And quite simply the UK will still have to comply with thousands of eu regs to continue trading.
All non-issue because UK can do that by themselves. As for complying with thousands of EU regs let the individual company deal with them.
The fiscal dumping and abuse of the fiscal freedom that EU states have to create a mountain range in the playing field rather than leveling it is my main gripe with the EU and the one that needs urgently fixing in my view.
There are many points I disagree with Jamba but his distrust of Junker and accusations of corruption are justified.
Getting international businesses to pay their tax where they make their profits is top of my list of necessary reforms. Edit: The EU needs fixing not scrapping.
As for complying with thousands of EU regs let the individual company deal with them.
Yay! Let's start a race to the bottom. We already know that consumers want the cheapest and marketeers are happy to supply that.
Cheap products using cheap components put together by kiddies in whichever country and we already know that insurance companies will tell you to shove your claims.
I think you're on to a winner chewkw, anarchy and screwed manufacturing base. Long termism isn't one of your strong points, is it?
I should add that the EU has been painfully slow at addressing this issue… and needs to work with those outside the EU for measures to have any chance of success. The EU is always slow… as it needs agreement between nations… which is bloody tricky to acheive.
because UK can do that by themselves. As for complying with thousands of EU regs let the individual company deal with them.
I'm on a terrible internet connection in a cabin in a forest, on 2012 Nexus 7, and it's about an hour to get to this point so I can't reply fully to Jamba's reply. I just wanted to say this in response to a comment further up the page though.
We.
Already.
Have.
Control.
Of.
Our.
Borders.
There are many points I disagree with Jamba but his distrust of Junker and accusations of corruption are justified.
I more than distrust him, I think he is a dangerous. And, yes, corrupt.
He isn't the EU though, and I look forward to the day he is gone.
He may well be and of course the EU has many problems - not least the folly of the € at its heart - BUT that does not mean that we are better off abandoning the great balancing act that we had i.e. membership of the good bits but avoiding most of the bad bits. What we will end up with HAS to be worse that what we have BY DEFINITION.
That is the ultimate folly of Brexshit
Yup, no doubt it'll be worse than our current compromise.
Still waiting for a Leave proponent to tell us how the border in Ireland will work, and I'm not the only one…
https://brianmlucey.wordpress.com/2016/12/31/a-2017-competition-for-brexiteers/
We.Already.
Have.
Control.
Of.
Our.
Borders.
A bit like we've got control of our prisons?
Sorry, different subject.
[quote=chewkw ]All non-issue because UK can do that by themselves.
They can but [s]will they?[/s] oh sod it, I'm engaging with chewy, no point in beating around the bush - a UK with a Tory government couldn't care less about all that stuff that's good for people, not if it's not making money for big companies. So the UK could do all those things by itself, but it simply won't, that is one of the big positives of the EU.
However:
[quote=Edukator ]There are many points I disagree with Jamba but his distrust of Junker and accusations of corruption are justified.
Getting international businesses to pay their tax where they make their profits is top of my list of necessary reforms. Edit: The EU needs fixing not scrapping.
+1 - I seriously considered the idea of voting leave because of the issues with the EU as it currently is. But the realistic result is that leaving wouldn't make things better (and as THM points out repeatedly, one of the biggest problems of the EU is one we're not a part of anyway). The difference seems to be that jamba thinks us leaving will improve these things 🙄
A bit like we've got control of our prisons?
I blame the staff, not even working full time these days.
The EU needs fixing not scrapping.
Edukator we have been trying to reform / steer the EU in a different direction for years, with no impact. Osbourne was still talking about reforming the EU a couple of weeks ago. It's naive, they are not interested. They would see reforming it to a lean and efficient trading / business focused organisation as a huge failure. They (the EU) want the ego trip and associated power of creating a super-state to rival the US.
Cougar we really do not, the grounds on which we can refuse entry are very specific (ie the person poses an immediate security threat), otherwise anyone can come, stay as long as they like and be entitied to exactly the same welfare as any citizen (after a trivial qualifying period), we can't even deport people after prison sentences and those that are kicked out for begging etc can just come back. It's all total madness. It couod have been fixed very easily but the EU's egomis so huge they have refused.
Edukator we have been trying to reform / steer the EU in a different direction for years, with no impact.
Thats hardly surprising considering the level of engagement we have had with the EU. How many people know who their MEP is never mind voted for one?
It's like the captain of a ship trying to manage the bridge and navigate from his cabin.
Edukator we have been trying to reform / steer the EU in a different direction for years, with no impact.
Seeing as the techniques used mostly involved electing people who didn't really bother to show up to anything
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/ukip-meps-attend-the-fewest-european-parliament-votes-of-any-party-in-the-eus-28-countries-10316962.html
so not sure how active they have been in reforming the EU. Other notable ways seem to be shouting no a lot and storming off in a strop to the Daily Mail.
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38498839 ]sod this for a game of soldiers, i'm outa 'ere![/url]
First day back at work after the break, reckon he's been thinking about that since Christmas Eve...
Says he'd desynced, just get him better internet and it'll be fine.
