The result was a choice to leave. The only thing the gov should be doing is honouring the commitment to respect the result. Nothing can happen until A50 is triggered, so this should be done ASAP. Then and only then, we can start to negotiate from our respective contradictory positions.We HAVE to stop fannying around and pretending the bad result didnt happen. It did. Live with and make the best of it. Thats what makes good leaders not those pretending that anything else is possible. Leave that to the SNP and their fantasy land (bingo)
Agree - but this is just chat on STW. What we say here and what we do in real life are not the same. We can entertain ourself making arguments and examining scenarios here while knowing full well that these will not turn into reality.
You and I must have drastically different ideas on what constitutes a 'good leader' then. If anything this entire episode has been the epitome of bad leadership and management from the very beginning.
I don't think THM is suggesting that we have good leaders - the opposite if I read correctly!
thm, that's an idiotic standpoint, so much so that even May isn't prepared to be so stupid.
Possibly but personally - and I was not a May fan at all - I think she has done an ok job. Most of the detractors have fanciful ideas of what this process is all about. She is in a tough position because - like me - she is not in favour of of leaving. We know that. However, she also knows that she has to deliver on a promise made to the UK population, and that is what she is doing. Yes she messed up on the royal prerogative bit (oh and putting Bojo as FS was a gamble too far IMO) but other than that she has got on with a tough job and keeping in contact with our EU partners. All she needs to do know is accept that a vote has to happen for an AoP = present the bill, three lines will do, get it passed and get on with it.
SOD - we are a divided nation. I for one had no idea that we are as xenophobic and racist (and ignorant) as events have shown. But that's the reality. Live with it - or move!!
Thank you captain, as I said before, I do try to fit in. 😉
“People did not vote on June 23rd to become poorer or less secure.”😀
Live with it - or move!!
1) the rise of what you describe is occurring in many countries, you can not move to escape it
2) seeking to change the path we are on is what democracy is for, no need to just quietly accept things
3) which countries do I have the right to move to, and stay in, after we leave the EU?
No thm, she didn't have to insist that this was "the will of the people" and that we have to leave the EU at any cost. She could have done her job and realised that 52/48 (with the 52 hopelessly divided about what they actually want) isn't much of a mandate for such a ridiculously damaging policy. But she seems determined to march the country off a cliff...for what? Some ideological point or other? TO pacify the tory extremists? Nothing to do with trying to find the best outcome for the country, that's for sure.
SOD - we are a divided nation. I for one had no idea that we are as xenophobic and racist (and ignorant) as events have shown. But that's the reality. Live with it - or move!!
You can add homophobic to that. Problem is all countries are the same and offer a mix of open minded and narrow minded people.
Having a referendum allows the narrow minded to have a say (based on prejudice and ignorance) which is exactly why we should never have referendums...
Live with it - or move!!
Well OK. On the basis that these divisions seem to be in place throughout Europe maybe we need some sort of Indian Subcontinent partition. Stick a border in place and those of us who wish to work with our European neighbours can live on one side and all the insular xenophobes can carve up the rest into their independent fiefdoms. On that basis I would move.
On that basis I would move.
So would I. Imagine there would soon be problems as once all the idiots are on their own they would soon realise the problem wasn't what they thought.
maybe we need some sort of Indian Subcontinent partition.
Good Idea, we need form of physical border in place between the fledgling Independent Britain and the EU
Maybe dig some form of moat or 'channel' and fill it with water?
No Ninfan but I think it requires you to move to Hartlepool.
Will I still be able to get Guacamole?
(gratuitous Peter Mandelson reference for the uninitiated)
Not sure - nearest Waitrose some 30 miles away.
ninfan - Member
Will I still be able to get Guacamole?(gratuitous Peter Mandelson reference for the uninitiated)
youll have to explain that for those of us that dont follow him quite so avidly
Captian - read the question. Is was quite clear
Mandeleson allegedly mistook mushy peas in chip shop for Guacamole.
...in Hartlepool
(though its probably apocryphal and Mandelson reckons it was a actually an american researcher/intern. theres an alternative theory it was really him mistaking it with pease pudding in a sandwich shop rather than mushy peas in a chip shop that has improved with the retelling)
wrong kind of chips
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But she seems determined to march the country off a cliff...for what?
She might be using Cameron's technique of proposing an extreme policy which draws strong opposition, then rolling it back to what was originally planned, thereby appearing all moderate and inclusive whilst doing what you wanted all along.
Good Idea, we need form of physical border in place between the fledgling Independent Britain and the EU
Maybe dig some form of moat or 'channel' and fill it with water?
You're going to need an area bigger than the UK to house the 50% of Europe who want to be insular.
[i]How long do we have to put up with Chewkw's non stop verbal diarrhoea? It's so transparent and tiresome.[/I]
Careful 'cos last time I suggested that he'd better going back to whatever basket-case of a country he came from I was censured - but the thought still stands, at not just for me it seems.
Unfortunately the internet is available globally. We will never be safe.
[quote=teamhurtmore ]She is in a tough position because - like me - she is not in favour of of leaving. We know that.
Are you sure? I note that JC also campaigned on the Remain side...
The reality of the next 10-20 years (interesting piece on BBC news website today) is the bottom 25% of our society is going to sacrificed completely and utterly deprived of any opportunity unless they can educate themselves to degree level. Semi skilled/manual factory work is going to disappear. As I have said before this group of people have no political power (even if they all voted UKIP) so Brexit or no Brexit they are ****ed and destined for minimum wage/slumlords/reduced welfare and health care - for life. Please stop responding to Chewkw (troll)
A few edits TMH. Those of us which raised these issues over the past few years have been called all the names you use and more.
SOD - we are a divided nation. I for one had [s]no idea that we are as xenophobic and racist (and ignorant)[/s] not been paying attention as events have shown. But that's the reality. [s]Live with it - or move!![/s] It's now time to address these issues, starting by reading this
Binners has posted before about the realities of life "on the ground" in the North, totally segregated and divided communities. As immigrant numbers grow there is actually less integration as people chose to live in the same area and create a "mini home town" environment and our notion of equality means they are entitied to request dedicated schooling etc.
It has been a serious and worsening situation for a very long time. One which most politicians just chose to ignore.
Political Correctness has lead to some here, eg those wishing to stay in the EU for example, paying a high price
educate themselves to degree level
I was thinking of starting a thread about the recent decison that ALL police recruits must have a degree. Firstly, I think being a good policeman needs a skill set which many inclined or able to do a degree don't have and secondly such people need good quality jobs and careers, we should be providing more not less such quality non-degree carrers (to our own citizens as a priority of course)
It has been a serious and worsening situation for a very long time. One which most politicians just chose to ignore.
Indeed. Politicians have been ignoring such problems for ages. However leaving the EU is not the solution.
Reminds me of the Golgafrinchians in whichever Hitchhiker's book it was. They adopted the leaf as their currency, which led to runaway inflation. So they decided to combat that by burning down all the forests.
That's about the level we are at.
is the bottom 25% of our society is going to sacrificed completely and utterly deprived of any opportunity unless they can educate themselves to degree level.
If they set the target low enough.
are entitied to request dedicated schooling
i'm not sure they are entitled to it as you put it, but the formation of academy schools, some of which are dedicated to specific religions, should never have been allowed. this fosters an 'us and them' attitude early in life that is not only inappropriate but fundamentally destructive to the ideal of an integrated society.
we should be providing more not less such quality non-degree carrers
care to elaborate? i'm intrigued what these 'quality non-degree carrers' (sic) are/could be?
Remain voter fraud in Hackney, quite an amusing 1:20 radio clip. I wonder if there was a Remain bias for such fraud ? Would be interesting to see the electoral wards selected for upcoming ID requirement experiment and see how they voted on June 23
Reminds me of the Golgafrinchians in whichever Hitchhiker's book it was. They adopted the leaf as their currency, which led to runaway inflation. So they decided to combat that by burning down all the forests.
Where is Douglas when he's needed.
quite nicely describes the Brexit process to date.A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.
Or perhaps better:
“Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.”
@ Del nursing was a good example of a non-degree career. The law also used to have a non-graduate path to my profession as a solicitor.
On my last stay in hospital I did actually hear a youngish nurse say when presented with an older patient who had been sick on himself 'I have a degree - I don't do vomit.'
care to elaborate? i'm intrigued what these 'quality non-degree carrers' (sic) are/could be?
computer game artist used to be entirely non degree, less so now but if your work is good enough they'll hire you degree or not.
Remain voter fraud in Hackney, quite an amusing 1:20 radio clip. I wonder if there was a Remain bias for such fraud ?
Man admits voter fraud. Other man infers behaviour of millions from actions of one man. Both dishonest, in their own way.
Remain voter fraud in Hackney, quite an amusing 1:20 radio clip. I wonder if there was a Remain bias for such fraud ? Would be interesting to see the electoral wards selected for upcoming ID requirement experiment and see how they voted on June 23
I'd be more than happy that [b]everyone[/b] has to use an ID card to identify themsleves.
I'd go so far as introducing a weighting determined upon how much time the registered voter spends in the UK too.
As for using a Hopkins radio show, I've told you before about using biased media for examples, it ain't going to wash.
Man admits voter fraud. Other man infers behaviour of millions from actions of one man. Both dishonest, in their own way.
Still trolling at full volume I see, I just asked a question. FWIW voter fraud via postal or otherwise is pretty focused, the demographics aren't hard to see.
Yes me too Captain, no one thinks twice about showing ID before voting in France. Not rocket science. I'd not bother with a trial I would just change the law for 2020 GE onwards. Compulsory everywhere.
Binners has posted before about the realities of life "on the ground" in the North, totally segregated and divided communities. As immigrant numbers grow there is actually less integration as people chose to live in the same area and create a "mini home town" environment and our notion of equality means they are entitied to request dedicated schooling etc.
yes BUT we do know which communities consider immigration to be an issue - not those you describe
All five Brexshit arguments were LIES as was immigration, but the latter swung it. We should be embarrassed not proud of what was revealed in 2016.
I just asked a question.
Yes, you just asked an entirely innocent question. No other agenda.
#jambaworld
Yes me too Captain, no one thinks twice about showing ID before voting in France. Not rocket science. I'd not bother with a trial I would just change the law for 2020 GE onwards. Compulsory everywhere.
Good to see that you agree it has to be an all or nothing argument. Getting back to immigration. 😀
Binners has posted before about the realities of life "on the ground" in the North, totally segregated and divided communities.
I used to live just about over the hill from Binners, this image you paint using Binners is not one that I recognise. Totally segregated and divided? Where the hell do you get this from? My local newsagent was a t+++ because he was a Liverpool fan, not because of his religion.
It really is this type of bullcrap where your unbridled ignorance shines through.
[quote=captainsasquatch ]I used to live just about over the hill from Binners, this image you paint using Binners is not one that I recognise.
Yeah, but what would you know - clearly jamba is an expert on communities in the North.
Yeah, but what would you know - clearly jamba is an expert on communities in the North.
You know what? I think that he believes that he is. There'll be some bizarre link coming through now that he has family/friends/worked up there, once, in the distant past.
