Certainly, here's you referring directly to the £350m for the NHS as a promise:
[b]DrJ - Member[/b]
That 10bn saving was all for the NHS wasn't it? Don't remember anything about spending it on lawyers. No buses painted with "Leave the EU so we can pay lawyers".Anyway, speaking of that NHS promise
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/10/brexit-camp-abandons-350-million-pound-nhs-pledge?CMP=Share_iOSApp_OtherPOSTED 3 MONTHS AGO # REPORT-POST SHARE2
http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/eu-referendum-are-you-in-or-out/page/281#post-7951393
[img] 
[/img]
we all know it was a promise/pledge/suggestion
thats what VL said they would do
turns out it was a Lie/fallacy/misdirection/joke
whatevs !
the reality is less money and pssibly less staff for the NHS as our population ages 😯
ninfan ...just another frustrated loser...
Well you managed to hold onto the frustration at least...
Now then, on to respecting voters wishes. If you accept the argument that as 51.9% voted to leave the EU and therefore we should, then there are some implications in your principled stance. We do not know whether they wanted to stay in the customs union / single market / economic area, because we didn't ask them. However we do know that the 48.1% do want to stay in such a market arrangement because that is inherent in staying in the EU.
Thus if we are flatly respecting voters wishes, then it is (regrettably and unfortunately) leave the EU, but (a little bit of good news) remain in the customs union / single market / economic area in some form. Which I accept probably means freedom movement of labour - but as that wasn't on the voting slip, that shouldn't be a problem.
All voters respected. Job done.
And now Fox is starting to make noises that would allow that. Davies and BoJo already have. Hmmm...
Certainly, here's you referring directly to the £350m for the NHS as a promise:
Clutching at straws!!
[img] 
[/img]
Ninfan
We send the EU £350 million a week, let's fund our NHS instead
Let's give our NHS the £350 million the EU takes every week
Close enough to promises. They said what they were going to do. You are playing with semantics.
Remain did not say they were going to trash the economy. They forecast that after A50 was triggered the economy would go downhill, which assuming A50 led to an exit of the EU, would significantly hurt our economy and jobs in the medium term.
Bit different - but hey, if you want to keep your blinkers on who am I to stop you.
(Incidentally as I recall UKIP referred to the £350m as an ill advised promise that they didn't make)
Sorry Doctor, which part of you referring to the £350m to the NHS as "that NHS promise" is you not, in fact, claiming that it was a promise?
#post-truth-politics
Close enough to promises
Right, so it therefore [i]was[/i] in fact a promise, despite not actually using the word promise, although DrJ wasn't [i]actually[/i] referring to it as a promise when he specifically called it a promise.
Strange place the remain camp isn't it?
Perhaps you could refer me to where leave promised £350m to the NHS
I bow down to your ability of discuss, you have done one of two things. You have either crafted the world's most crafty argument to defeat you foes, or that is the most pathetic defence ever seen.
I'll toss a coin on it.
Are you seriously saying that the words plastered on the side of the bus were not designed, if not to promise, but to trick people into believing there was a promise and you sit there smugly playing a game of semantics.
#Thrower!
It seems the European Army was one of the main things on the agenda at the recent summit. Farage at European Parliament
It seems the European Army was one of the main things on the agenda at the recent summit. Farage at European Parliament
Christ on a bike! He uses a lot of words to say sod all, doesn't he?
Desperate use of semantics by ninfan are a pretty good example of how Leave in general are struggling to deliver on their promises, and why the right wing media and prominent brexiters are full of such bitterness towards us remoaners.
It's obvious that somehow we are at fault for Brexit betraying those who voted for it.
It's OK we can veto an EU army, oh, no we can't coz Little Britain will have no influence in the EU after Brexit
#Fakecontrol
Leave in general are struggling to deliver on their promises,
What promises exactly?
Like IGM said in his swipe against me, there's a difference between a promise and a forecast... well, there's also a difference between a promise and a wish, desire, goal, preference or target. However the remoaners, like everyone else, want to have their cake and eat it - everything that doesn't happen is an embarrassing climbdown or broken promise, everything bad that happens is 'because of Brexit' and every ridiculous half baked prediction they made that doesn't come true is 'because Brexit hasn't actually happened yet'
It's sheer childishness and cherry picking because, just for once, they didn't get their own way, and I think it's 'king hilarious to sit pointing out their own hypocrisy when they can't even admit to themselves that they are being as childish, alarmist and reactionary as they were to the worst of Donald Trumps perfectly crafted leftie-trolling rhetoric 😀
Edit:
It's OK we can veto an EU army
Why veto it when, come the worst, we can just Nuke the ****ers?
It's sheer childishness and cherry picking
And yet you still do it. 🙄
I'll stop when they do 😆
But you started it! 😛
Strange place the remain camp isn't it?
Not half as strange as a place where people write stuff on buses and drive them around the country and then claim it was ... what? a passing notion? a fanciful whim?
Not half as strange as a place where people write stuff on buses and drive them around the country and then claim it was ... what? a passing notion? a fanciful whim?
No, a promise wasn't it? You said as much here remember:> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/eu-referendum-are-you-in-or-out/page/281#post-7951393 <
Ninfan - not sure it's a swipe really. I was just pointing out your equating of forecasts (over which one has no direct control) and promises, pledges, wishes, desires, preferences etc where (in this case at least, seeing as we now have a self proclaimed Brexiteer PM - "we're all Brexiteers now" I think she said) one does have control.
Equating these two things is clearly nonsense - especially as in the case of the economic forecasts everyone is agreed that it is not a question of if they will come to pass, merely the timing and degree of negative impact. Even jamba has said he expects to see nothing good economically for ten years / until he's retired. And by that time we will never actually be able to tell if we would have been better off staying in.
If I choose to have a swipe it will be far nastier not the simple factual piece I did above.
Can anyone penetrate ninfans bubble of denial?
If I rhyme it will it get through?
A bus sized lie you can't deny
Though it's funny to watch the brexies try
'It wasnt a promise' sounds rather feeble
But point it out and without a doubt youre an enemy of the people.
😉
Not half as strange as a place where people write stuff on buses and drive them around the country and then claim it was ... what? a passing notion
And if that's now being denied then they are denying one of the main reasons they had for leaving.
Zero logic.
The whole campaign was founded on fumes. An ideology without weight.
The whole campaign was founded on fumes. An ideology with weight.
It does fall into ninfan's desire though. He simply wants [s]to run away[/s] leave the EU. There is no plan, there is no objective and anything was acceptable to achieve that only desire of running away from something. It appears they they are running away because they don't undestand.
It takes a real man to admit that they've made a mistake.
.It takes a real man to admit that they've made a mistake
Absolutely.
The desire to keep peddling misinformation around without reflection beggers belief. I've yet to see any of the usual suspects say this could turn out to be worse than initially thought.
See, that's where it gets messy... Because the nutters in the remain camp predicted fire and brimstone coming down from the skies, rivers and seas boiling, forty years of darkness, earthquakes, volcanoes… The dead rising from the grave, human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together – mass hysteria... Well, pretty much no matter what happens the nutters in the leave camp will say "Look, no fire and brimstone, it's been a great success".
That's their metric for success- do better than the most hysterical of all the remain claims. Hurrah.
Quite funny really and as said earlier, a perfect match for the angry winners.
I see Nissan have started making noises about Brexit and impacts on investment again. Given we thought that one was sorted, I wonder what's annoyed them.
[i]See, that's where it gets messy... Because the nutters in the remain camp predicted fire and brimstone coming down from the skies, rivers and seas boiling, forty years of darkness, earthquakes, volcanoes… The dead rising from the grave, human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together – mass hysteria... Well, pretty much no matter what happens the nutters in the leave camp will say "Look, no fire and brimstone, it's been a great success". [/I]
For the millionth time, we've not left yet!
We've haven't promised Nissan anything @igm except we are committed to free trade
On the £363m gross weekly contribution .. let's have a sweepstake as to what the number will be by 2019. I'll go for £450m
For the whining about £350m please read the Brexit analysis I've linked to. All you are doing is bring the debate back again and again to a massive Vote Leave Take Control strong point, our budget contribution. It matters not whether it's a £150m, £200m, £350m or more ... it's all too much and we cannot control the amount
That's their metric for success- do better than the most hysterical of all the remain claims. Hurrah.
I think that many brexit voters go far beyond that, their metric for success is how much the remainders and 'haves' lose and suffer. Sure, they may suffer in the process too, but like the Russians their mentality is that they are used to suffering anyway, they take pride in it. As I said on here months ago, they are perfect happy to, indeed take a perverse pride in, steering the whole thing into the ground just to hear the screams of terror of the people who spent years ignoring their plight.
For the millionth time, we've not left yet!
But who is more frightened about what they might lose? You or them?
"But can't you see, you're shitting all over yourselves too" you cry
"Yeah, but we've been covered in shit before" they reply
jambalaya - Memberexcept we are committed to free trade
Does Brexit mean stopping the endless government subsidies for badly performing businesses that would fold if they were opened up to more efficient foreign competition?
We've haven't promised Nissan anything @igm except we are committed to free trade
How do you know what has been promised? And what does committed to free trade meand in this? A whole pile of Jack Crap, that's what. And if Nissan are stupid enough to set their business plan on the basis of a commitment from the brexshitters, they deserve everything they get.
I mean, look at the last £350m [s]promise[/s] [s]hint[/s] [s]alludement[/s] [s]commitment[/s] advertisement, and how that was folowed through on.
For the whining about £350m please read the Brexit analysis I've linked to. All you are doing is bring the debate back again and again to a massive Vote Leave Take Control strong point, our budget contribution. It matters not whether it's a £150m, £200m, £350m or more ... it's all too much and we cannot control the amount
Let's move on from this becasue
a) We should just pretend that it's not a significant point (even though it probably won the referendum).
b) There isn't actually a b), sorry.
Let's move on and pretend it never happened as BeLeavers will simply ignore the facts. And still expect us to think that they're smart.
Do BeLeavers rush out and buy the latest washing powder everytime a new advert comes out?
I think that many brexit voters go far beyond that, their metric for success is how much the remainders and 'haves' lose and suffer. Sure, they may suffer in the process too, but like the Russians their mentality is that they are used to suffering anyway, they take pride in it. As I said on here months ago, they are perfect happy to, indeed take a perverse pride in, steering the whole thing into the ground just to hear the screams of terror of the people who spent years ignoring their plight.
What a stupid comment - once they have 'steered it into the ground' then what?
Nissan are merging some platforms with Renault and mitsubishi for their electric cars .
Their profits might have increased in the Uk last year but production numbers are down . They know that it will take years for the uk to exit the EU . and when that happens , it will be time for new platforms and Sunderland will be gone .
What a stupid comment - once they have 'steered it into the ground' then what?
You think it's not true?
They don't care what happens next - they care far more about how much pain it causes you
We've haven't promised Nissan anything @igm except we are committed to free trade
Quite. Given the audit office laddie saying something along those lines it may simply be that Nissan are reminding the government what 'free trade' means to them.
Of course I wasn't privileged enough to sit in on the meetings so it's all just speculation.
PS - the point about the £350m isn't whether it was £1000bn or £1.50, it was the leaver campaign said "let's spend it on the NHS", they are to all intents and purposes in power and they haven't done it - making them liars. Whether it was a lie in the first place (it was of course) is neither here nor there.
But like the man said above:they are to all intents and purposes in power and they haven't done it - making them liars.
I wish you remainders would make up your mindsFor the millionth time, we've not left yet!
ninfan - Member
They don't care what happens next - they care far more about how much pain it causes you
Agreed. Except of course Brexit has been good for me personally (well financially anyway).
And of course you just made a really good argument for ignoring the referendum as by your definition here it had nothing to do with leaving the EU - rather it was about the have nots taking pot shots at the haves. Happy to redress the balance but not by taking everyone to the lowest.
Fair enough ninfan. Want a small wager on whether they're going go to it? Going to be difficult seeing as how the money doesn't exist.
Double or quits on the complete collapse of western political civilisation?
Never saw that one except from Brexies. Sorry
It will happen of course. Civilisations rise and fall.
I wonder why brexiters are so desperate to make us all forget about this.....
[img] 
[/img]
Is it because they know that kind of cast iron promise can come back to bite you in the arse?
[img] 
[/img]
Ah, not just a promise, but a [i]cast iron[/i] promise now?
Like the One the Labour Party promised us before signing the [s]EU constitution[/s] Lisbon treaty I presume?
Of course, the weren't the only ones:
[img] 
[/img]
Double or quits on the complete collapse of western political civilisation?
breaking point ?
you dont like that bus , dont you Ninfan ? 😆
diverting the question once again .
Of course, the weren't the only ones:
Clearly you think that this bending of truth, saying on thing and doing another is acceptable. When would it become unacceptable?
