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You can try and dignify it, but it came across to me as one of the periodic "let's pile in to Jamby" sessions.
So it's good to constantly lie through your teeth?
Good show chaps, not picking on anyone here unless they constantly live in a fantasy world that bears no resemblance to the one the rest of us live in, guess you all thing every one of his claims are accurate and real - I pity your gullibility.
If any further proof of Theresa Mays appalling lack of judgement were required, its in appointing that ****ing self-serving floppy fringed baboon as Foreign Secretary. And inexplicably, he's still there.
I think Ian Hislop summed him up best:
[i]People always ask me the same question, they say, 'Is Boris a very very clever man pretending to be an idiot?' And I always say, 'No.'[/i]
I don't think he lies particularly, he certainly "shoots from the hip" and will misinterpret things, but that is hardly uncommon here or in the media. We all interpret things though our own prism. You shouldn't let it get to you, he is only posting about politics on an MTB site, it is not something of any consequence.
Since the 1970s, we've seen a decline in union membership, collective bargaining has gone out of the window
True but collective bargaining is much more difficult now after the Viking and Laval judgements by the ECJ.
https://www.elaweb.org.uk/resources/ela-briefing/laval-viking-line-and-limited-right-strike
wonder if Johnson is deliberately trying to make Davis' job harder so that talks will collapse and Davis will be too tarnished for any leadership contest?
Well I'm back. I took Jamba's advice, ate, drank and ended up a little rough the next morning.
Must have been a different bunch to Jamba's wedding. For one they could certainly quaff champagne, and secondly I was quizzed about Brexit and they reckoned Britain was mad to leave.
Anyway I see the polls now suggest the British reckon Britain would be mad to leave the EU too - 51:44 on the straight remain:leave question and 60% want to keep the rights of an EU citizen.
And even the Telegraph is edging round to that view - I read the comments column there too, which was interesting.
Hey ho.
The Brexshit Bugle is turning.....whatever next?!?
I know. Jamba? 😉
I know. Jamba?
You know you're going too far there.
edited....
Too - cmon standards
"Come on," standards.
"C'mon, standards"....standards?!?
Ok. I take it back. Maybe Farage then.
Has this been posted before
Funnily enough Davis said today before the Brexit select committee that there had been no softening of the UKs stance, the tories have just been 'misinterpteted' by the press
Good link thx
Sensible opening para, good points and an optimistc/realistic conclusion. Refreshing change from all the hyperbole clogging up the debate currently
Trouble is THM its hard to be optimistic (yeah Im being negative, I know) when the incompetents are running the show
while its obviously in everyones best interest to reach a good deal and Im sure that sensible heads in the EU & our own civil service will come together
sadly i think much of the damage has been done, cap'n bullshit Davis was convincing no one at the brexit select committee today, espcially as Johnson was freewheeling it a few hours before agreeing the EU could 'Go Whistle'
[url= http://uk.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-banks-idUKKBN19W1VS?il=0 ]Banks begin London exodus as hopes of transitional deal fade[/url]
May (& Davis) crazy decision to hold an early election has just cut an already tight timetable even shorter
The brexies seem to have believed too much of their own bullshit, that it was all going to be easy peasy, it takes a special kind of arrogance....
No kimbers it's obviously in everyone's best interests to simply abandon the whole stupid idea.
No kimbers it's obviously in everyone's best interests to simply abandon the whole stupid idea.
Not everyone. I am sure some will do very well out of it.
Trouble is that true Brexit believers, both in government and out don't care who does well or not,
it's just the right decision whether it ruins the country or enriches it.
There was a very passionate woman on QT a few weeks back who was angry that Brexiters were being questioned, she explained that it was best if the public didn't know any details, just that it happens, was quite scary how much she believed that
The brexies seem to have believed too much of their own bullshit, that it was all going to be easy peasy, it takes a special kind of arrogance....
Which IMO comes back to the English thinking they are special. That the world owes them something. Little things like the references to we won the war or 1966.
If the fact that you have to look back that far to justify your position points to a VERY weak position. This ignores the minor detail that the UK didn't win the war, it was on the winning side, but without the US and Soviets the outcome would have been very different.
Then there is the general ignorance of what the British Empire actually meant to many, details like why the cotton mills in the north of England and not where the cotton was actually grown, why do we drink tea, opium to the Chinese, how rebellions were put down, Black and Tans & the Plantations, etc etc.
What needs to be learnt is that sometimes a little humility goes a long way, other countries do things that are in their interest and that may not be in your interests. However looking at the current crop of polticians i am not hopeful that they understand that sometimes the right thing is to shut up and sometimes the right thing is to tell the electorate the truth, which may not be what the electorate wants to hear.
There are much simpler issues at play. A large number of people simply do not want to be part of Europr, preferring independence to interdependence. As much as I disagree with that view, that is their right. So this leads us to the interesting contradiction:
UK residents prefer Independece and are willing to suffer economic implications - stupid, racist, little Enlganders (sic)
Scot Nats prefer Independece and are willing to suffer economic implications - clever, rational, proud Scots
Funny old world, isn't it....
I think the recent tweet from Dominic Cummings sums up Brexies, self serving hypocrisy, arrogance, etc
1/ Govt MORONS say they're withdrawing from EURATOM. Near-retarded on every dimension: policy/politics/science/bureaucratic
1st off this was in the article 50 letter the gov produced months ago, why is he only bothered now?
2nd he was the guy behind the leave campaign, that convinced is the EU experts and especially the ECJ (the reason we are leaving as they are arbiters/enforcers of regs) are evil
Finally, wtf !?! We were all warned that leaving the EU would make life harder, it was at best dismissed as project fear, or just drowned out by the populist [I have a potty mouth] from the kippers, swivel eyed Tories and our fair and balanced press.
Will catch up later, busy yesterday and today.
So it's good to constantly lie through your teeth?
@mike please go back over the last (say) 40 pages of this thread and show me all the "constant lies"
If you cannot do so I am going to report your post tomorrow for a breach of forum guidelines.
@Edukator your comment on the euro (to big to push around) is probably the daftest thing I have ever seen on here. The euro is bust.
There are much simpler issues at play.
It really isn't as simple as you make out.
A large number of people were used to get what a very small number of people actually want.
Funny old world, isn't it....
Not entirely inconsistent though. It is the attitude that mrmo identifies amoungst the English that fuels the separatists in other areas of Britain, sadly.
It is the attitude that mrmo identifies amoungst the English that fuels the separatists in other areas of Britain, sadly.
ironing?
please go back over the last (say) 40 pages of this thread and show me all the "constant lies"If you cannot do so I am going to report your post tomorrow for a breach of forum guidelines.
seriously? good luck with that. let us know how it works out.
A large number of people were used to get what a very small number of people actually want.
^this.
I suspect that unless common sense prevails, we'll end up with a result that nobody wanted, just for the sake of political expedience and damage limitation for the Conservatives.
The Conservative vision of Brexit was twofold - firstly, there was a desire to remove a good deal of legislation. One of the telling comments from the campaign was that post war Germany owed it's growth to the fact that the economy started again from scratch and had to reinvent the state to be fit for purpose. The second motivation was a desire to exploit our low productivity by creating a low wage, minimalist state economy with a drastically curtailed welfare state and low taxes for the very wealthy. This is very much at odds with the Labour vision of Brexit, which has very much been about protectionism and immigration in response to the votes lost to UKIP.
I doubt very much that Brexiteers from either side of the political spectrum will co-operate because their respective post EU visions of Britain are drastically different. However, with a hung parliament seemingly a couple of public racist remarks away from another general election, the only pragmatic common ground is for both sides to concede to a softer, compromised approach which will inevitably mean that we aim to preserve access to the single market, but without any representation in Brussels.
It is the attitude that mrmo identifies amoungst the English that fuels the separatists in other areas of Britain, sadly.
ironing?
Well I am just another flawed Englishman, trying, but failing, to put my feet in the shoes of others.
report your post tomorrow for a breach of forum guidelines
Threats? 🙄
@mike please go back over the last (say) 40 pages of this thread and show me all the "constant lies
oh god cant believe you are suggesting this
here are excerpts from the last 4 pages you posted on
[b]PAGE 855[/b]
Hard Brexit. The IMF published their revised forecast. It's pretty decent really considering they assumed not a single new trade deal of which in fact there will be many in the months following April 2019.Anyone see Turnbull's comments today ? "we're Australians we get on with stuff" take note at the EU
I assume this is the report you are referring to?
http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/weo/2016/update/02/
because it quite clearly states that the figures are based on a best brexit case scenario
reflect the benign assumption of a
gradual reduction in uncertainty going forward. In
this scenario, arrangements between the European
Union and the United Kingdom settle so as to
avoid a large increase in economic barriers
and as I also pointed out on that page
australia have taken many years to sign trade deals in the past and a timescale of months would be remarkable as the average deal takes what 7 years?
[b]PAGE 854[/b]
3m EU citizens in tje UK vs just 800,000 Brits in the EU
actual figure is 1.2m brits
https://fullfact.org/europe/how-many-uk-citizens-live-other-eu-countries/
The posturing from the EU will get resolved as we export £10bn worth of cars/components and import £40bn worth from EU.
the actual numbers are £13bn vs £39bn
http://www.acea.be/statistics/article/motor-vehicle-trade-between-the-uk-and-main-eu-partners
PAHE 853
@teamhurtmore the Germans would rather leave the EU than transfer more of the benefits to other members.
ill leave it to THM
Not strictly true Jambas. There is a massive private sector transfer via Target 2 balances - of course ultimately back stopped unwittingly by the Bundesbamk - indeed Germany has a massive exposure to the ultimate demise as a result - circa 30% of GDP. As long as the EZ survives then Target 2 balances remain nothing more than an accounting entry. On demise, they become reality with Herr and Frau Schmidt at the sharp end.So massive transfers HAVE taken place especially since 2007 albeit from the private sector.
PAGE 852
The EU hasn't signed a meaningful trade deal ever aside from Canada and that took 8 years
average WTO tarrif 9%
https://www.wto.org/english/thewto_e/20y_e/wto_20_brochure_e.pdf
average EU tarrif 4.8%
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/brexit-latest-cost-uk-leaving-eu-without-trade-deal-exports-negotiations-david-davis-a7325326.html
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:21972A0722%2803%29:EN:HTML
Canada - Comprehensive and Economic Trade Agreement (CETA), end of negotiations 14 September 2016
East African Countries (EAC) – Interim Economic Partnership Agreement , end of negotiations, 16 October 2014
Singapore – Free Trade Agreements, initialled on 17 October 2014
Vietnam – Free Trade Agreement, negotiations concluded on 1 February 2016
West Africa – Economic Partnership Agreement, initialling, 10 July 2014
Albania - Stabilisation and Association Agreement, 22 May 2006
Andorra - Customs Union, 1 July 1991
Bosnia and Herzegovina - Stabilisation and Association Agreement, 1 June 2015
Faroe Islands - Agreement, 1 January 1997
Georgia – Association Agreement, 1 July 2016
Iceland - Agreement, 1 April 1973
Kosovo - Stabilisation and Association Agreement, 1 April 2016
The former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia - Stabilisation and Association Agreement, 1 April 2004
Moldova - Association Agreement, 1 July 2016
Montenegro - Stabilisation and Association Agreement, 29 April 2010
Norway - Agreement, 1 July 1973
Russia - Partnership and Cooperation Agreement, 1 December 1997
San Marino - Customs Union, 1 December 1992
Serbia - Stabilisation and Association Agreement, 1 September 2013
Switzerland - Agreement, 1 January 1973
Turkey – Customs Union, 30 December 1995
Ukraine- Deep and Comprehensive Free Trade Agreement, 1 January 2016 / Association Agreement, 29 May 2014
Algeria - Association Agreement, 1 September 2005
Egypt - Association Agreement, 1 June 2004
Israel - Association Agreement, 1 June 2000
Jordan - Association Agreement, 1 May 2002
Lebanon - Interim Agreement, 1 March 2003
Morocco - Association Agreement, 1 March 2000
Palestinian Authority - Association Agreement, 1 July 1997
Syria - Co-operation Agreement, 1 July 1977
Tunisia - Association Agreement, 1 March 1998
Armenia - Partnership and Cooperation Agreement, entered into force on 9 September 1999
Azerbaijan - Partnership and Cooperation Agreement, entered into force on 17 September 1999
Cameroon– Interim Economic Partnership Agreement, signed on 28 February 2009
Canada – Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement (CETA), signed on 30 October 2016
CARIFORUM States - Economic Partnership Agreement, Provisionally applied
Central America - Association Agreement with a strong trade component, signed on 29 June 2012
Chile - Association Agreement and Additional Protocol, 1 March 2005
Colombia and Peru - Trade Agreement, signed on 26 July 2012
Ecuador - Trade agreement provisionnally applied, 1 January 2017
Ghana - Stepping stone Economic Partnership Agreement provisionally applied, 15 December 2016
Iraq - Partnership and Cooperation Agreement, signed on 11 May 2012
Ivory Coast – Economic Partnership Agreement provisionally applied, 3 September 2016
Kazakhstan – Enhanced Partnership and Cooperation Agreement, 30 April 2016
Madagascar, Mauritius, the Seychelles, and ZimbabweEconomic Partnership Agreement signed in August 2009
Mexico - Economic Partnership, Political Coordination and Cooperation Agreement, 1 July 2000
Papua New Guinea and Fiji - Interim Partnership Agreement ratified by Papua New Guinea in May 2011
Southern African Development Community (SADC) - Economic Partnership Agreement provisionally applied, signed on 10 October 2016
South Africa - Interim Trade, Development and Co-operation Agreement, 1 January 2000
South Korea - Free Trade Agreement, signed on 6 October 2010, entered into force on 13 December 2015
Im also ignoring all the bold assertions like Brexit will definitely happen, people voted labour coz they want brexit, May is playing a blinder etc etc
Theres no way Im going through 40 pages but I see no reason that this wont extrapolate out for the last 400, think this settles it once and for all?
Guys, can we please stop with the sniping?
Although I strongly disagree with Jamba on the issue of leaving the EU, he does at least attempt to provide citations to support his argument and for the most part avoids making ad hominem insults.
It's fine to call out any incorrect facts, but an escalating conflict over who's going to get whoever else banned isn't helping.
@kimbers - a quicker way is just to Google:
site:singletrackworld.com jambalaya Greece bailout
Although I strongly disagree with Jamba on the issue of leaving the EU, [b]he does at least attempt to provide citations to support his argument[/b]
Errr .... words fail me.
It's fine to call out any incorrect facts, but an escalating conflict over who's going to get whoever else banned isn't helping.
I don't think anyone wants Jamba banned, I hope not anyway.
Both opinions, and the veracity of "facts", can be called out, and questioned, by anyone, no matter who is involved, without fear of banning, I would hope.
here are excerpts from the last 4 pages you posted on
yeah, but apart from that..
@mike please go back over the last (say) 40 pages of this thread and [b]show me all the "constant lies"[/b]If you cannot do so I am going to report your post tomorrow for a breach of forum guidelines.
@Edukator your comment on the euro (to big to push around) is probably the daftest thing I have ever seen on here. [b]The euro is bust.[/b]
I don't want Jamba banned. Definitely not.
I like the humour of his posts.
I said this before, but we don't generally ban people for having contentious views unless they're being actively disruptive.
"I'll report you" is hardly a threat - that's exactly what you're supposed to do.
the euro is bust - jambas is correct on that one
That it lingers on in a broken format is one of the reasons why anti-EU feeling endures. It's the elpahant in the room. THe single currency is flawed in concept and execution.
macron is starting to talk about the potential solutions - he needs to move fast!
Perhaps, but there's something of a gulf between "flawed" and "bust." It's the same hyperbole used by leavers when discussing the "corrupt" and "undemocratic" EU - it's misleading at best (being generous).
I don't believe that Jamba is being deliberately disruptive. His arguments are flawed and his sources open to debate, but I can't see any deliberate attempt to troll.
Anyway, back to the topic at hand...
Cougs, you are correct
Flawed refers to the design
Bust refers to the execution and result
Here's every LWers favourite Nobel prize winning economist on the topic
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01C544KUO/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1
teamhurtmore - Member
the euro is bust - jambas is correct on that oneThat it lingers on in a broken format is one of the reasons why anti-EU feeling endures. It's the elpahant in the room. THe single currency is flawed in concept and execution.
macron is starting to talk about the potential solutions - he needs to move fast!
I tend to agree. I wanted the euro to work, I love the concept.
But it either goes too far or not far enough. Either you need to have full financial and monetary unification, or stay clear of both.
States borrowing money in currencies they don't control (see Greece) is not good news.
So either go further so the borrowing is by Europe and then granted to Greece (like we do with the various countries in the UK) or let them borrow in their own currency so the value of that currency can move.
The UK is a good example of an optimum currency area - hence the £ works, which creates the problem for the SNP as they couldn't get round this basic issue.
The Euro Zone is not - hence the € doesn't work, which creates a problem for advocates of other aspects of the Euro Area (a good thing) which ultimately get swamped by the basic issue of the rotten core that is the single currency
Hence, my conclusion that in the end economics always outplays politics. Politicians can only buck reality in the short term
Did we do the growing realisation that leaving Euratom might be a bad idea yet?
Here are some nice snippets:
Five senior nuclear scientists, including the chair of the UK Atomic Energy Agency, have told BuzzFeed News that the decision to leave Euratom – the European Atomic Energy Community – at the same time as leaving the EU will have profound impacts on Britain’s research, energy production, and industry.Professor Roger Cashmore, the UKAEA chair, said that the situation was "a mess" and "alarming", and told BuzzFeed News that by 2025 "you could be doing your writing by candlelight on a typewriter".
-- https://www.buzzfeed.com/tomchivers/these-scientists-say-brexit-is-a-mess-for-british-nuclear
Dr Nicola Strickland, president of the Royal College of Radiologists, told the Standard she was "seriously concerned" that "Brexatom" threatens the supply of vital imported radioactive isotopes, widely used in scans and treatment.
..
Dr Strickland said: "Radioactive isotopes play a crucial role in diagnosing and treating cancer in the UK... the Royal College of Radiologists, like others in medicine and industry, is seriously concerned about continued access to these materials if we leave the Euratom treaty under Brexit."
..
"Another concern is whether we could see increased radioisotope pricing as a result of leaving Euratom."Any future restricted access has the potential to delay diagnosing and treating cancer in thousands of UK patients and to add more costs to an already cash-strapped NHS."
..
Nine Tory MPs have signalled their opposition to pulling out of Euratom, enough to inflict a humiliating defeat on a key element of the Prime Minister's Brexit plans. Several ministers are also said to be unhappy with the decision.
Dominic Cummings, the former campaign director for the official Vote Leave campaign doesn't seem that keen on leaving it either:
[img] 
[/img]
[Labour MP Rachel] Reeves, who is running to become chair of the business select committee in parliament, said: “MPs from across the political spectrum are clearly very worried about the prospect of leaving Euratom and ideology getting ahead of sensible politics.“It is time for the government to rethink this. Nobody voted to leave the EU to come out of Euratom, and no one would think the government was going soft on Brexit if they rowed back on this.”
Dame Sue Ion, honorary president of the Nuclear Skills Academy and former chair of the Nuclear Innovation Research Advisory Board, said: “Associate membership is better than nothing, but it all depends on exactly what that means. It’s normally associated with access to Euratom research, not the wider cover provided by the treaty for everything else [such as transport of nuclear materials]."
She added: "The best option is clearly to stay in, which is entirely possible."
Yes the lot of them are indeed retarded. Note that Labour also voted for this (in fairness they tried to amend the A50 bill to exclude euratom, but they still voted for the bill after their amendment failed).
This is of course just one of many examples of the unintended consequences of being ruled by intellectual pygmies who have devoted the last couple of years to spouting slogans rather than thinking about the inevitable consequences of their actions. Expect many more to come until brexit is abandoned.
as I said earlier cummings is a rank hypocrite trying not to be associated with the shitshow he helped create
Taking Control, chapter XVII
[img] 
[/img]
Noticed Barnier has replied to that thicko Johnsons Whistle quote:
"I'm not hearing any whistling - just the clock ticking."
I don't think anyone wants Jamba [i]banned[/i]. He doesn't personally insult people and he genuinely seems to believe in his posts. I can't see anything that would warrant this.
His [b]credibility[/b] on the other hand is an entirely different matter and resides entirely with him. 🙂
That it lingers on in a broken format is one of the reasons why anti-EU feeling endures.
On the contrary opinion polls in France say that people are quite happy with both the EU and Euro. The people using Euros like them.
Those who hate the Euro are people like yourself THM, those outside the Euro zone (and obviously bankers who used to make money trading all the different currencies).
Edit: and again I refer you to the dollar which is very much a part of the coherence, unity and economic strength of 50 states. The dollar is the United States. Without the universal dollar they'd have perhaps gone on warring with each other like we did in Europe.
Yes, for sure the unemployed and those whose wages have been smashed "love" the Euro. Why wouldn't they?!?
There are people who are unemployed, and with "smashed wages", in regions using the $ and £ as well.
[[b]edit[/b] : the Eurozone has to change, is currently a fudge, lots needs to happen, and faster than it is happening.]
True, kelvin on both counts. In fact Macron and Merkel seem to have grasped some of the imperative - can they deliver.
Macron has the harder task of reforming the French labour market and cutting state spending - that will go down well!!! Might get swamped in the smoke....
At least Macron & Merkel are being honest to their electorate
Barnier was very serious today about the magnitude and urgency to get brexit sorted in his speech from what ive read
Meanwhile our politicians just make glib comments, see Johnson & Davis yesterday, Green having no response to Thornberry questioning Mays 'No Deal' bollox
I guess I don't need to review the entire thread then, cheers chaps. I will add 350 million which is close to the number of poles in there.
😀
If I was Barnier p, I would be worried too. He knows the clock is ticking and there is little chance of a deal happening. So no deal (ouch for all) or kick the can down the road with a king transition period??
Pretty easy choice really...
Kimbers, macron is a different sort of populist/anti-establishment but he still has to face the same issues - the solutions will not be popular. Bon chance mom ami!
Does a transition deal have to be agreed by all 27 members?
it does make sense, but I can imagine plenty are annoyed at May for wasting so much time with her pointless election, every time a brexiter makes another deluded quip about brexit being simple, no deal etc etc we lose a bit more cooperation.
There comes a point when pragmatic realpolitik has to come into play. Unfortunately, that was about six months ago and since then our "bloody difficult" PM and buffoon in the Foreign Office have frittered away any goodwill.
yeah, barnier must be really shitting himself.....remind me why?
Does a transition deal have to be agreed by all 27 members?
28 I think
Because no deal is bad for everyone - and I would be worried and pi**ed off by the lack of progress so far
He also has a responsibility to deliver a deal and it's not looking likely
Don't forget we all lose here, if they don't agree.
Because no deal is bad for everyone - and I would be worried and pi**ed off by the lack of progress so farHe also has a responsibility to deliver a deal and it's not looking likely
Which means at some point the EU will say f-off and stop worrying about the UK and deal with themselves. Brexit is an unwanted sideshow that as you say helps no one, but it does offer opportunities, even if that is to asset strip the UK.
I see the OBR have had to put out a statement contradicting Damien Green at PMQs today
they arent assessing the impact of no deal as he claimed
really do wish they could be fact checked in real time
does that mean the gov really arent contemplating it or they really arent looking into things properly?
It means there isn't really a functioning govt at the moment. Nor any prospect of one forming.
Looks like the Telegraph are finally beginning to reconnect with sanity:
[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/12180680/The-idea-of-buccaneer-Britain-trading-freely-outside-the-EU-is-a-fantasy.html ]The Telegraph[/url]
It'll be the Mail and Express next.
That Telegraph comment piece was from before the Referendum, no?
All it would take would be an EU ban on Desmond's gutter pron empire and Dacre being unable to access scones and knotted handkerchiefs on his holidays in the south of France...
As a fellow forumite has pointed out, I neglected to date check that Telegraph article.
If it comes down to a 'no deal' or 'stay in at least for now" decision....apart from the obvious problem of getting the EU27 to all agree, who in the UK gets to make that choice…? Serious question. Does May's cunning avoidance of a vote by our parliaments in that scenerio still apply? If both front benches decide to avoid that vote, is there a mechanism for back benchers, or even us low life outside parliament, to insist on it?
[i][For those that can't remember back to before the butterfingers election, currently parliament get to vote on any deal… but if there is no deal… that's it… no vote… amendments to insist on parliament, or voters, having a say if no deal is reached, were voted down.][/i]
Interesting piece here (about Euratom and links to tweets on previous page):
http://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/news/the-fatal-divide-for-business-in-brexit-britain/ar-BBEgE8f?li=AAmiR2Z&ocid=spartandhp
Key being the comments are from a very pro-leaver!
Article is about Trump
But rings very true for Brexiters !
https://theconversation.com/inside-the-minds-of-trumps-true-believers-79986?
For men to plunge headlong into an undertaking of vast change, they must be intensely discontented yet not destitute.” They must also have “an extravagant conception of the prospects and potentialities of the future” and “be wholly ignorant of the difficulties involved in their vast undertaking..........understood that the true believer is rarely concerned with facts. He wrote, “It is futile to judge the viability of a new movement by the truth of its doctrine and the feasibility of its promises.”
Chocolate Orange anyone?
Has the lack of posting on here been due to everyone concentrating on the TdF, or is everyone now content that the wheels are coming off and no more needs to be said?
The shit has been launched, we are waiting for it to arrive in the fan area.
That's no way to refer to our esteemed Brexit negotiators Moly - to be fair on past performance they'll probably u-turn before they reach the fan.
is everyone now content that the wheels are coming off and no more needs to be said?
Pretty much this AFAIC. Not really any credible counter-argument.