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milleboy - Member
suspect a chocolate teapot of a PM.
Second best female pm we've ever had though?
Tight call. 😉
@Edukator no it will be a condition of carriage, the operators will be legally bound to check details otherwise they will not be able to run their service, API (we do that on the UK side of the tunnel already now). If Macron lets migrants believe they will ha e a better chance at making it to Britian France will see a significant increase in those arriving to try and give it a go.
Anyway in other news as a result of the GE and SNP trying to manufacture a story a letter from Leadsom (Agriculture amd Fisheries Minister) was released. Shows UK Government will end mostbof the Common Fisheries Policy inclduding quotas and the right of EU boats to fish in our waters. Great news, lets hope they deliver.
In a letter to the Scottish Fishermen's Federation (SFF), Ms Leadsom wrote: "It is essential that we take the opportunity to develop a fisheries regime that is better-suited to our seas and industries."
She added that as the UK leaves the EU "we will look to disapply the key elements of the CFP that are most unpopular and unworkable for the UK as a coastal state".
This would include the EU quota-setting regime and the right of European boats to fish in UK waters.
And Ms Leadsom said the government was looking to "ensure we have full control over UK waters when we leave the EU".
putting your faith in Andrea Leadsom, surely that's desperation 😉
its been tough for brexies lately after france, italy, austria and holland failed to deliver as theyd been banging on about for ages
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French electoral rules state that there must no reporting on candidates after midninght on the friday before the election .
the media DID report about the hacking but candidates could not comment .
En Marche said they were hacked back in february or march , and that fake news was mixed with real data to confuse the audience .
to be fair , \lepen terrible tv debate on the wednesday was the final nail in her coffin .
My old uni 🙁
cheers brexshit
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/education/university-announces-139-job-losses-12820580
tbf they made plenty of bad decisions before brexit came along,
its not just 5p a litre on petrol its people losing jobs
still ftse100 is up so the richest have seen their portfolios looking better
still ftse100 is up so the richest have seen their portfolios looking better
Which is of course the planned outcome.
Manchester has just announced a similar number of job cuts Kimbers.
All Uni's are struggling, and know the next few years will probably be tougher…
"Tens of thousands" target, and our hostile approach to students from the rest of the world, the drying up of European funds and projects… Brexit joy.
The EU is announcing new anti-dumping laws according to Europe 1 this morning. They've done steel and have now a list of goods and services that will have tariffs imposed. The list mainly concerns Asia. When the big blocks indulge in protectionism it's not a good idea to be a small isolated country.
Bank of England report isn't too cheery.......
Exports not doing to well and eu imports up.
But at least we've taken back control, that's the main thing.
Depressing article on the damage being done by brexit on science
I'm sick of you whining Remaoners, it's time for you to stop being elitist selfish brats and get behind Brexit, it's in the national interest!
/s****s with hand in front of mouth
Manchester has just announced a similar number of job cuts Kimbers.All Uni's are struggling, and know the next few years will probably be tougher…
The university[ of manchester] recorded a £59.7m surplus for the year in 2015-16, after a £19.6m deficit the year before, according to data from the Higher Education Statistics Agency. The university’s financial statement revealed it had reserves totalling almost £1.5bn, of which £430m was cash.
Unions arguing its just an excuse for the cuts rather than the costs
I would not mind struggling with those sort of reserves
Glad 'the unions' aren't doing my financial planning then.
Things are changing. Half the country voted for that change.
Surplus quoted was before that vote, and doesn't reflect what has been happening since.
Glad you are not doing mine.
Surplus is profit and the assets are huge by anyone standards.
I am sure Brexit will affect the university degree production line I am merely questioning whether it has , there, yet and whether brexit really is the cause of the cuts
You have yet to offer any proof of your conjecture
Proof of the general harm being done to universities by government policies- growth turned into decline. And this doesn't take into account other impacts- increased recruitment costs, higher bursaries, etc. Basically universities are working far harder, for reduced profit margins, for flatlined and now falling numbers of students.
Of course it's not just about Brexit, the conservative governments of recent years have been openly hostile to overseas students- that report has a long list of issues. But Brexit and the spike in hate crimes that came at the same time brought that into focus and seems to have been a tipping point for students and for agencies. (previously post-graduation work was the biggest issue people raised, now it's brexit- it's essentially the figurehead)
And there's greater competition from abroad, mostly since no other country where education is a key export is stupid enough to attack it.
This year's application cycle isn't done yet so there's few published 2017 figures but I bet 10p they'll be horrible. We're going through a round of voluntary redundancies too and it's primarily based on this year's enrollment and projections for next year
Haven't we spent years saying that less people going to university and learning a trade or, heaven forfend, getting a job instead might get good thing?
Of course it's not just about Brexit… hence me saying…
"Tens of thousands" target, and our hostile approach to students from the rest of the world, the drying up of European funds and projects… Brexit joy.
First two parts of that are May not Brexit.
May + Brexit = double dose of damage.
In hindsight, it's odd that May wasn't pro Brexit.
Her aims chime so well with it.
Haven't we spent years saying that less people going to university and learning a trade instead might get good thing?
Scaling back universities by pulling up the drawbridges to international students, investment, and cooperation, isn't just about reducing the education level of Brits, even if you think that is a good thing (I don't), it's also about research and knock on effect on industry and society. It's about forming international links with people who will be in key posts worldwide.
tis going to be wonderful when britain has full control of it's own little bubble and zero influence outside of it...jambalaya - Member
@Edukator no it will be a condition of carriage, the operators will be legally bound to check details otherwise they will not be able to run their service, API (we do that on the UK side of the tunnel already now). If Macron lets migrants believe they will ha e a better chance at making it to Britian France will see a significant increase in those arriving to try and give it a go.Anyway in other news as a result of the GE and SNP trying to manufacture a story a letter from Leadsom (Agriculture amd Fisheries Minister) was released. Shows UK Government will end mostbof the Common Fisheries Policy inclduding quotas and the right of EU boats to fish in our waters. Great news, lets hope they deliver.
In a letter to the Scottish Fishermen's Federation (SFF), Ms Leadsom wrote: "It is essential that we take the opportunity to develop a fisheries regime that is better-suited to our seas and industries."
She added that as the UK leaves the EU "we will look to disapply the key elements of the CFP that are most unpopular and unworkable for the UK as a coastal state".
This would include the EU quota-setting regime and the right of European boats to fish in UK waters.
And Ms Leadsom said the government was looking to "ensure we have full control over UK waters when we leave the EU".
Things are changing. Half the country voted for that change.
Half didn't. The whole country is not behind this and never will be. But that matters little to politicians who believe the mid 30 percents is a massive endorsement.
And Ms Leadsom said the government was looking to "ensure we have full control over UK waters when we leave the EU".
Have the fish been told?
Which presumably also equates to a loss of rights in EU waters?
Haven't we spent years saying that less people going to university and learning a trade or, heaven forfend, getting a job instead might get good thing?
See, in many ways you come across as articulate, if misguided, but this just makes you look dumb. Sorry.
Debt.
ninfan - MemberRight...
Yeah, your last few posts would make more sense if we weren't talking about overseas students.
See, in many ways you come across as articulate, if misguided, but this just makes you look dumb. Sorry.
Why?
How many students go to study some variety of arts, humanities or sociology degree, and then never find a job where it'll be of any significant use?
A good friend of mine studied archaeology at Llampeter Uni, and one of the first things she did on leaving and getting a job was ask "would you like fries with that?"
Not exactly true, she got a job working in a restaurant, and she got that because she used to run the bar at her local, and had done restaurant work as well.
I worked with any number of graduates who had studied graphic arts, and didn't have clue one about creating artwork suitable for commercial print, they were all about fancy record sleeves and stuff like that, they had no idea how to lay out a grid for page makeup so that everything aligned, they just plonked type down by eye!
They got very resentful when it was pointed out to them that their fancy, expensive university education meant bugger-all in a small print firm in a market town in Wiltshire.
I never had the benefit of going to university, I failed the 11+, so didn't go to the local grammar, but TBH, I'd have been bloody hopeless at Uni, instead I had several jobs over a period of 30+ years that I was good at, and really enjoyed, and I learned everything I needed actually on the job, from people who were experienced and passed on what was necessary.
Cool story bro. Who wants fancy?
CountZero - MemberWhy?
Because we're talking about overseas students not UK students, it's totally different issues.
CZ is in early from the pub I see.
[url= http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-families-poorer-bank-of-england-warning-food-prices-economy-uk-incomes-a7731336.html ]Grim economic outlook for 2017 is called 'another sign of the Brexit squeeze', just four weeks before the general election[/url].
Sometimes other countries do things better than the UK. I've had a few friends with businesses in the UK and some have suffered due to unscrupulous business men using bankruptcy laws to walk away from debt having paid themselves high salaries from businesses that were losing money. In France this constitutes "un abus de bien sociaux" and I'm always astonished how Brits get away with it.
A friend of a friend had a habit of setting up ltd. businesses and getting in piles of client money in advance. The business model wasn't long term viable but for as long as it lasted he took a fat salary. It lasted a few years as he delayed paying bills for as long as possible. When the inevitable happened he put the company into liquidation and moved on to something else. Customers were left with nothing, suppliers didn't get paid. He's now living on the millions in Cyprus.
British business morality eh.
A friend of a friend had a habit of setting up ltd. businesses and getting in piles of client money in advance. The business model wasn't long term viable but for as long as it lasted he took a fat salary.
Quite common in the building trade, set up a company, then walk away from all liabilities, it is why almost all warranties should be treated with supreme skeptism.
[s]Sometimes[/s] Usually other countries do things better than the UK
FTFY
Other universities feeling it too.
https://www.timeshighereducation.com/news/manchester-blames-brexit-enormous-job-cuts
It's not just hippy accademics that teach arty subjects (coz we don't need those right). It's cleaners, IT staff, porters etc etc
They got very resentful when it was pointed out to them that their fancy, expensive university education meant bugger-all in a small print firm in a market town in Wiltshire.
I think most people would get upset as you come across with a massive chip on your shoulder.
To me the problems you list are due to lack of training. Training begins after you have the knowledge. The knowledge is gained through education. Education does not equal training. If you hire someone straight out of college or university they will need to be trained but you can expect them to have the knowledge so they know what you are taking about.
Of course it is possible to learn both knowledge and training on the job but the advantage of already having the knowledge is that you can gain skills quickly as you have knowledge outside the area of the job you have. You should have a broader knowledge base.
I wouldn't expect a bricky to have a degree, i would expect a doctor too.
As for "Micky Mouse" courses, you might not like some, but there is a need, and like most things in life some win and some lose. Of course some people will fail to land a decent job in a related field.
Should a history teacher have a degree? OR should we not teach history.
One of the most distasteful disingenuous bits of the Leave campaign for me.
It was a completely bizarre line in the first place- absolutely nothing to do with the EU, but vote leave and we'll change a law that we could change today. But shouldn't come as a surprise that it was all bullshit really
[/url]“By 2019 the country could be in a receptive mood: 2.5 million over-18-year-olds, freshly franchised and mostly remainers; 1.5 million oldsters, mostly Brexiters, freshly in their graves,” he said.
😀
so they all gained employment based on the degree they obtained as it was "needed"? you sure you want to argue this?you might not like some, but there is a need
There is not a need for 50% of people to have degrees and there is certainly not the need for the numbers within specific degrees - how many media studies graduates work in media? see also marine biologist, forensic science, games design , sports science and well pretty much any degree you choose really
So you want some kind of planning system where there is a 1:1 correlation between course places and vacancies relating to said course? Fire up the Tardis…
Students Europe you say
Funny headline.
She wants to work [b]FOR[/b] the EU, not [b]IN[/b] the EU.
The EU institutions might want to, in the parlance of our country these days, "employ one of their own people".
Also, University education is where you are taught to think for yourself, and in a critical manner, regardless of the subject. Yes, it should be done at an earlier age but the current setup doesn't encourage it.
Thinking critically, and for yourself, is not something the Tories want to happen as they won't come off well.
odd story, the Express stating the obvious, you aren't an EU national so no point applying to work for the EU. oh sorry i forgot we're British and we're special!
[quote=kelvin ]So you want some kind of planning system where there is a 1:1 correlation between course places and vacancies relating to said course? Fire up the Tardis…
NO i simply was pointing out how the claim was incorrect.
I assume as you chose to draw a straw man rather than refute my argument you have nothing much to counter the point with.
If your point is that we have too many people on some courses, and not enough on others, that will always be true. It can be fixed with a Tardis though… so crack on.
see also marine biologist, forensic science, games design , sports science and well pretty much any degree you choose really
Demand for all will have changed greatly between people starting and finishing those courses… for example demand (need) for games designers has gone up, for forensic sciences has gone down (first a booming industry, second an area receiving major cuts in last few years).
[quote=kimbers ]“By 2019 the country could be in a receptive mood: 2.5 million over-18-year-olds, freshly franchised and mostly remainers; 1.5 million oldsters, mostly Brexiters, freshly in their graves,” he said.
Wish dead those who dont share your views.
Stay classy remoaners
not what they said
Kelvin here it is again
you might not like some, but there is a need
so they all gained employment based on the degree they obtained as it was "needed"? you sure you want to argue this?
Do you want to argue this as so far you have danced around the point i made and not directly addressed it
Either argue we[society] truly need all those degrees with reference to their employment outcomes that required said degrees in said field or accept i had a point. Its not even controversial and it is true many many degrees neither lead to employment in that area nor do they lead to jobs that require degrees. Glance at graduate employment rates will tel you that.
I would be delighted to see what % of games designers get a job in the industry no university i contacted - though it was 7 years ago- was able to provide this figure. It certainly wont be a double figure %
So either address the points I am making or we can have no debate.
Junkyard - lazarusThere is not a need for 50% of people to have degrees and there is certainly not the need for the numbers within specific degrees - how many media studies graduates work in media? see also marine biologist, forensic science, games design , sports science and well pretty much any degree you choose really
Still literally nothing to do with the actual point though
Some people will do degrees, and find demand lower than expect when they leave.
Some fields will find a shortage of graduates.
1) can be fixed with Tardis
2) not every graduate will end up in career directly relating to their degree
I'm going with 2 always being true, no matter how many people go to University.
None of this related to double whammy of less rest of world students and leaving the EU though, as Northwind points out.
Stay classy remoaners
Coming from one of the classiest posters STW has ever had. 😆
1) can be fixed with Tardis
We probably need more people signing up to do a degree in science fiction then
so they all gained employment based on the degree they obtained as it was "needed"? you sure you want to argue this?
No one wants to argue this, except you.
You know your strawman will always be false, and I've even pointed out one obvious reason why.
Face palm @ kelvin Did i miss your pervasive and powerful use of stats on games degrees leading to jobs in the are and proving we need them?
PS please google straw man so you dont repeat the mistake and keep looking foolish
Still literally nothing to do with the actual point though
Well I started by quoting someone so someone made a point somewhere
As for the "actual debate"* I am leaving that to those who know. Clearly me debating this with you is a situation where i sit and listen as you are way more informed than me.
* Its not like STW does not have more than one issue going on within a thread
I originally questions whether there was a need for all degrees
I still maintain there is not and have explained the metrics for this decision.
On the subject of straw men Wurzel gummage died recently seriously surprised there want a thread about it
mikey74 - Member
Also, University education is where you are taught to think for yourself, and in a critical manner, regardless of the subject. Yes, it should be done at an earlier age but the current setup doesn't encourage it.
I wish. Students today seem over taught - when I through questions into the graduate intake interviews that are say simple project management cloaked in something else, it both amazing and sadly predictable how few and which ones can answer. Interestingly it's the old school ivory towers graduates or people who were on the tools before their degrees that do better.
Junkyard - lazarusWell I started by quoting someone so someone made a point somewhere
Nah, Ninfan threw in a random nonsequitor about UK students into a discussion of overseas students because he didn't understand the issue, or possibly because he wanted to distract from it.
(it's the EU thread, no matter how badly brexit goes I'm reasonably sure UK students will still be allowed to go to UK universities)
Are you sure? Boris will probably suggest that isn't going to happen without stably strong leadership shortly.
I dont read his bits so missed that he was the start of itNinfan threw in a random nonsequitor about UK students into a discussion of overseas students because he didn't understand the issue, or possibly because he wanted to distract from it
Sorry
Sorry
It's too late. 🙁
You're dead to me...for now.
[url= http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/councillor-nick-harrington-suspended-from-warwick-district-council-offensive-tweet-ireland_uk_59185613e4b00f308cf5d579 ]http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/councillor-nick-harrington-suspended-from-warwick-district-council-offensive-tweet-ireland_uk_59185613e4b00f308cf5d579[/url]
Nice to see a Tory revealing there true colours.
So you don't use your degree in the field you graduated in. But you still learned a lot of life skills and above all how to learn, assimilate and apply what you learned. It teaches you a rigor that will serve you well in anything (perhaps everything) you do.
You share a campus with young people around the world, get invited to a sort of barbie with a whole sheep on a spit oraganised by the Iranians, share a bed with exotic members of the opposite sex ( or the same if you prefer), try to explain socialism to Americans and capitalism to communists, raise money for charities you don't give a damn about just for the craic, have discussions about appropriate us of street furniture with the feds while doing pull ups on a lamp post, marry a girl with father from a place that starts with an L but is pronounced W... .
That campus just got smaller and less colourful.
Great post Edukator.
I dont disagree that most folk will have a wonderful time at univeristy - they would if they pissed off travelling for the same time frame - not sure which changed me most [ did the travelling first FWIW] - and these days that is a much cheaper option
Its horrible scenario as it is such a high level of debt that is not very likely to lead to employment in that field nor a graduate level job for so many - due to the high numbers attending, the types of courses, and the lack of employment opportunities post degree
I lament that we are in this scenario and i have to talk like this but its really not worth everyone doing a degree , not for them nor for society, just because its a right good laugh.
Has the Eurozone imploded yet?
two years ago DD
Week next Tuesday, happens like easter now. It will be along again shortly.
Ok cheers guys.
What about Merkel? Has she gone into political oblivion yet? (Y'know, because of the refugee crisis...)
Think she is doing stand up at Burnley WMC next Tuesday too.
Haha, Merkel's CDU has just beaten the ruling SPD in the Federal Elections of NRW. Seen as a barometer for the upcoming German election, things are looking promising for a continuation of the status quo.
And that mad pro-EU French fellow - from the family that run that big chain of Cash&Carrys - Makro. He didn't go and win an election did he?
so trump soon to be impeached, europe looking more united
just brexit that stands out as the decades biggest mistake.....
No...Austria. They went full-on nazi didn't they?
And the Dutchies - didn't Wilders have a landslide victory?
close, but dissapointingly for the rightwingers, they didnt go full nazi, this time
Any leavers care to comment?
Seems to have gone quiet.
They're waiting for June 8th so they can all start chanting "we won you lost ner ner ner".
some surprise that. This was one of the obvious things that is going to happen.