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They live in an alternate reality don't they?
I've spent a lot of time pondering the country's fault lines on Brexit, and had boiled it down to young vs old, city vs town & country, and open minded vs closed minded.
But it's not that at all is it? It's realist vs fantasist isn't it.
How does one negotiate with a fantasist?
How does one negotiate with a fantasist?
Offer them unicorns?
But you are right, the level of delusion displayed by many is pretty shocking.
Is your question Matt (that you haven't asked) does Brexy equal Walter Mitty? Well evil nasty Walter Mitty anyway - Mitty was after all essentially harmless.
If so, then the answer is quite possibly, yes.
The question was largely rhetorical - even after all this time I'm staggered the person leading this is starting from a point so divorced from reality. Just wow.
His starting position is so fundamentally bizarre how can anyone, even those supporting Brexit, possibly feel this will end well?
So given that I'm flailing about trying to find a way forwards.
Matt - don't bother. The Brexies will destroy themselves. They are dyed in the wool whiners and complainers, great at point out what is wrong with the things others build - but no good at building things themselves.
From their collapse into bickering, hope will arise and it won't be led by Brexies.
How long? We'll see.
The only thing that might keep them together is a common enemy - hence the Brexy press trying to portray the EU moving EU institutions inside long term EU boundaries as some sort of "punishment".
Stay disunited, use confusion and make them fight on a miriad of micro-fronts. Don't give them a single enemy to unity against.
Get on to your local MP, councillor, businesses, schools and get your point across to them. Offer to speak at local groups - churches, scouts, whoever is active in your area. And tell them why the Brexies are wrong.
The Brexies will die out and the green shoots will rise up. Talk to the young make them understand why they need to vote the has beens of Brexit out of every office in the country.
Thanks for the positivity, it does help.
In a democracy, a movement that can't see the dissonance between WWYLGOI and "now we need you to get behind this" contains the seeds of its own doom.
I assume of course everyone is aware that post-A50 and free of the oppressive yoke of Westminster, the EU is exerting its new found "sovereignty" to move European organisations out of London.
#TakeBackControl (to Brussels) 😉
What did we think was going to happen?
My next prediction is there'll be a Brexy along in a minute to say we didn't want them anyway and How moving those bodies elsewhere is actually good for the UK. Or perhaps that the EU are just bluffing.
Keep taking the crazy pills Brexies. 😉
What did we think was going to happen?
They would love us for ever....
Simply that though everything which is in the interest of the EU is now a punishment, every thing we give up in a negotiation is a beating and vindictive. Whereas anything the UK gains will be a deserved and well earned result.
So now there's no chance of Turkey joining, can we have another referendum?
can we have another referendum?
No, at least certainly not yet. Most morons haven't paid any attention and don't realise what is going on. It'll take at least another year, maybe much more, before it becomes sufficiently obvious even to the terminally dense ****s who voted for it firsts time round, that it's an utter disaster.
Just out of interest. If we have not reached the leave point of Brexit yet how do you know it's an utter disaster? I mean can you see the future? If so have you thought of a way you can capitalise on that talent. Also if you can see the future could you tell me this, will Yorkshire finally gain a referendum on its independence and will the independence campaign win the the popular vote. Thanks in advance.
No, at least certainly not yet. Most morons haven't paid any attention and don't realise what is going on. It'll take at least another year, maybe much more, before it becomes sufficiently obvious even to the terminally dense **** who voted for it firsts time round, that it's an utter disaster.
They don't all need to change their minds though. In fact if the franchise was extended to 16 & 17 year olds, alongside the demographic affect in the meantime, means very few for a simple majority, or even to beat the 51.89%
Mathematically that would do it.
Constitutionally, who knows.
Finally I can only quote our good Mr Farage: '52-48 result would be unfinished business'
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/nigel-farage-wants-second-referendum-7985017
mt - one has a point methinks. Hence why I take Brexies like Jamba telling me it's all going swimmingly with a huge pinch of salt. But to be fair to Jamba, ninfan, chewkw et al they have to put a positive spin on it really - the alternative doesn't bear thinking about.
mt - on a daily basis we see the loss of influence and anticipation of economic damage. Losing EBA and EMA being just one recent small example.
'May said "god would have voted leave" and because its easter I'm inclined to believe her
alternative point of view
the Koreans (north) seem to be doing well out of being insular ,not sure about the natives but the leaders all seem to eat well
I thought it would be obvious that EU agencies would move out of UK. Sooner the better frankly. Hopefully the EIB will follow asap. It is just too embarrasing for the EU to have EU bodies in UK so they'll all go. The EU's real problem is how they are going to pay for the relocation costs, lease exit clauses and then of course on-going expenses when their second largest contributor has gone and is paying zero.
Not a single ounce of salt @igm , compare the project Amrageddon predictions to reality. Look at the humble pie the IMF and OECD have very publically eaten and the damage to HM Treasury caused by their ludicrous projections.
I see Lloyds have confrimed they will change the status of the Beelin Office (with 300 staff) from branch to subsidiary to allow them to retain an EU presence. French press have confirmed that aside from HSBC no one else is intending to move anyone to Paris.
Sooner the better frankly.
Right on que............
Britain is fighting to remain the home of two of the EU’s most prestigious agencies covering medicines and banking after Brexit, in a move that is likely to cause astonishment in European capitals.David Davis, Brexit secretary, does not accept that the two agencies and roughly 1,000 staff will have to move from London’s Canary Wharf, even though the EU is about to run a competition to relocate them.
You could not make this stuff up!
Just out of interest. If we have not reached the leave point of Brexit yet how do you know it's an utter disaster?
Agreed - if a suitable reply to an optimistic Brexiteer calling it a success is "It hasn't happened yet" then the same must be said to a pessimistic Remainer calling it a utter disaster.
I thought it would be obvious that EU agencies would move out of UK.
Agree with that too - seems pretty obvious that EU agencies are going to leave the UK so they can remain based in the EU. According to that HuffPo article the EMA attracts 40,000 visitors a year - that would be a [i]lot[/i] of visas for them to sort out.
The comments saying it is the EU being bullies or childish, or punishing us somehow, are frankly just mental - but then they are from Daily Express readers so...
Someone thinks people come here to be baristas. No they come here to make a life, fool, and serving coffee is how they get started.
I thought it would be obvious that EU agencies would move out of UK.
I'd wager the typical leave voter doesn't know what an EU agency is.
Someone thinks people come here to be baristas.
Sounds a bit like the Working Holiday Maker Visa that Australia has.
http://www.border.gov.au/Lega/Lega/Form/Immi-FAQs/what-is-the-working-holiday-maker-program
indeed the very least an EU agency needs is to be within the EU so they were always leavingThe comments saying it is the EU being bullies or childish, or punishing us somehow, are frankly just mental
[url= https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/apr/22/curry-restaurants-crisis-immigration-rules-chefs ]https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/apr/22/curry-restaurants-crisis-immigration-rules-chefs[/url]
This is the current situation, does anyone see it getting better?
igm> My next prediction is there'll be a Brexy along in a minute to say we didn't want them anyway and How moving those bodies elsewhere is actually good for the UK.
jamba>I thought it would be obvious that EU agencies would move out of UK. Sooner the better frankly.
Are you psychic, igm? 🙂
Sounds a bit like the Working Holiday Maker Visa that Australia has.
Is it? MissJ was interested in the Oz thing as a means to explore Australia a bit, and not as a way to start a new life Down Under.
DrJ - Not really. Jamba's intelligent but not the most sophisticated advocate for a cause I've met.
He also failed to read my pinch of salt comment properly.
Given where we are I think we are proceeding roughly in line with the forecasts I saw - well those reasonable ones I saw and believed. I didn't believe all the forecasts, including the £350m a week to the NHS one - if Jamba gets to say where's financial armageddon (a forecast I never saw personally) then he also has to say where's the £350m a week for the NHS - they're equally valid.
Financially - Inflation on the rise for the foreseeable future, wages stagnating, then falling in real terms, the economy which is still to consumer driven slowing then falling.
Socially - much unrest as poverty bites, promises are broken etc.
Diplomatically - Friction with our neighbours, fewer new friends than we thought. Plenty of folk who think we will be desperate for trade deals looking to offer us fairly one sided deals.
jambalaya - Member
I thought it would be obvious that EU agencies would move out of UK. Sooner the better frankly.
yeah because the loss of the EMA wont hurt the UK at all 🙄
jambs is just saying this because he darent admit that brexshit will have negative repurcussions
Kimbers its about the net gain overall which imo is very significant.
Onwards and upwards.
😆 😆 😆
Hate to tell you this, but your opinion is probably worth less than a £350m promise on the side of a bus.
But humour me, this net gain, after you've lost the 4-5% of GDP that EU membership is worth to a country like the UK (ok we pay circa 1% of GDP for that benefit), how exactly does your net benefit accrue.
Feel free to be incredibly vague and speculative.
I want to know at what point kimbers & junkyards heads explode... its funny watching their self flagellating mental implosion
EDIT: the equivalent function of the EMA we will require for the UK so I would expect most if not all of those jobs will be required for the UK market.
so rather than paying 1 / 27th we now haver to pay for the whole thing
bloodynora - Member
I want to know at what point kimbers & junkyards heads explode... its funny watching their self flagellating mental implosionPOSTED 39 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST
jambalaya - Member
EDIT: the equivalent function of the EMA we will require for the UK so I would expect most if not all of those jobs will be required for the UK market.POSTED 35 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST
ahhhhh ignorance in tandem...
🙂
so rather than paying 1 / 27th we now haver to pay for the whole thing
Ssshhhhh!
All you Remoaners are going to make yourselves ill with all your doomsday predictions.
It appears to have manifested into a unhealthy obsession - where your all getting worked up by others as daft as yourselves.
Get a grip; go ride your bike.
I assume this what Jamba keeps referring to. The perfect song to unite [s]Brits[/s] upper class twits everywhere.
Are we back on the playlist?
All you Remoaners are going to make yourselves ill with all your doomsday predictions.It appears to have manifested into a unhealthy obsession - where your all getting worked up by others as daft as yourselves.
Get a grip; go ride your bike.
WWYLGOI
All you Remoaners are going to make yourselves ill with all your doomsday predictions.
No doomsday predictions. Just watching the beginnings of the costly changes ahead. You are preparing for the changes yourself, yes? Or do you think they won't touch your bubble? Of course, we'll also keep calling for the national self harm to be stopped, but that's democracy. It would be nice for those who have pushed us into the work and costs ahead to tell us why they think it's all worth it though, I've still not heard anything concrete from anyone.
Please enlighten this ignoramus. A google search brings up this thread and your post. Nothing else. 1 hit. Pretty good that, never had a single hit on google before.
So what does it mean
WWYLGOI
"We Won You Lost Get Over It."
The cry of the clueless Brexiter when faced with logic, reason or facts. (Used ironically in this case I presume.)
WWYLGOI - The Leaver's Lament: [i]"We Won, You Lost, Get Over It"[/i]
I'd wager the typical leave voter doesn't know what an EU agency is.
I'd wager the typical leave voter doesn't know what the EU is.
Amrageddon
confrimed
Eh?
Just seen Davis tweet about EMA, EBA
is he in denial or just trying to somehow limit the damage done to the UKs reputation? (as if that was possible now)
WWYLGOI
All you idiots (yes, I'm going to use that word, not to describe your choice to vote brexit, but to describe your choice to use that phrase) seem to bang on about retaining our democracy and yet you expect people to just lie back and accept a decision they believe to be fundamentally wrong and damaging to the UK and all it's citizens. Isn't people's right to protest against something they see as being wrong the essence of democracy?
It is especially pertinent in this case as it's decision we can't go back on.
To summarise: Shut the hell up with this bull and try and be a bit more constructive. If that is the only response Brexiters have to someone's anti-Brexit reasoning then this Country is in a lot more trouble than any of us initially thought.
"Get over it" is all they've got.
Get a grip; go ride your bike.
Did that, it didn't help. Still ashamed of my own country which is still ****ing itself up.
Someone thinks people come here to be baristas. No they come here to make a life, fool, and serving coffee is how they get started.
Bingo. Then they have kids, who are British people and don't even talk funny, then those kids grow up, get jobs and work and pay wages and so it goes on.
All gone now.
These new agencies we have to set up, that's a shitload of extra work we need to.pay for. Work that doesn't create any economic benefit, and workers who could have been generating wealth - all to stay exactly where we already are with regulation.
What a waste.
Please enlighten this ignoramus. A google search brings up this thread and your post. Nothing else. 1 hit. Pretty good that, never had a single hit on google before.So what does it mean
WWYLGOI
Googlewhack!
I'm quite chuffed with that as I only used it twice.
As others explained, 95% of leaver responses are just a variant on WWYLGOI.
And to accentuate the irony, after just being told to shut up, you're usually told to respect democracy and "get behind Brexit for the good of the country".
I wonder what agencies will leave and what will be set up once Yorkshire is out of the UK. I suspect there'll an "Imported Beer Purity Dept", it should stop[ that southern muck getting in and anything from Scotlandshire (in Particular Brewdog). The BBC will be leaving Leeds as we already have YTV. As for banks, they'll all be staying. They see the stuffed mattresses of Yorkshire as a target market. There will be trouble with immigration around Harrogate, barista's. It the only place in Yorkshire that does not know coffee comes from a jar and can be made instantley with the application of hot water, none of this messing around with rare bread coffee and obscure milk varities.
Just to accentuate the irony, get behind Yorkshire Freeeedoooom for the good of the Gods fair county.
Edit keeping up to speed in the debate.
Right on my!
I see Liam Fox is living up to his reputation as a highly skilled, wise, effective negotiator and of course someone with impeccable morals
[url= http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/liam-foxs-team-travelled-240000-10244605 ]Liam Fox's team travelled 240,000 miles during 35 trips - but have made NO post-Brexit trade deals
The Department for International Trade commissioned 35 trips, involving 100 flights, in a bid to secure post-Brexit deals[/url]
[img] 
[/img]
You would have thought somebody would have told him no trade deals till 2019...
Yup, we have "shared values" with that guy I believe.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-38311655
Puke.
Classy, Brexiteers, very classy.
Fair few avios (air miles) collected for him then....
Can't sign till 2019 but no one can really stop afternoon tea and crumpets discussions tbh.
Don't forget to use his full title thou...
"The disgraced former defence secretary, Dr Liam Fox”.
His previous qualifications indicate he's exactly the man for the job 🙂
slowoldman - Member
"Get over it" is all they've got.
When people are hysterical - it's often best to keep things simple.
No amount of sensible discussion or reasoning is going to convince the most obsessed Remoaners that their opinion is wrong, or their worse case scenario is not going to happen.
I am suspicious that some people are having a giggle and encouraging the Remoaners on this thread.
No amount of sensible discussion or reasoning is going to convince the most obsessed Remoaners that their opinion is wrong,
I've been searching for this discussion and reasoning for 9 months, because I'd be really pleased for my opinion that Brexit is a disaster to be shown wrong.
But I'm yet to find it.
I'm not going to claim the EU is perfect, it has plenty of flaws, but the idea is fundamentally a good one and I find the expectation a country is better going solo rather than in a team of 28 to be ridiculous.
No amount of sensible discussion or reasoning is going to convince the most obsessed Remoaners that their opinion is wrong, or their worse case scenario is not going to happen.
That explains the complete lack of any kind of reasoned discussion on the subject, as most have observed there isn't a coherent plan, stream of ideas and most of the reasons and explanations contradict each other.
I am suspicious that some people are having a giggle and encouraging the Remoaners on this thread.
The obvious trolls are obvious.
Agreed - if a suitable reply to an optimistic Brexiteer calling it a success is "It hasn't happened yet" then the same must be said to a pessimistic Remainer calling it a utter disaster.
No this is not a realistic response. We are already seeing bad things starting to happen due to brexit. Eg, the EU pulling out the EMA and EBA. We've also had the NHS exodus in the news recently. These are happening prior to leaving, due to leaving, and are unquestionably bad things for us. There are no good things suddenly starting to happen to make up for it, nor is there any realistic prospect of good things starting to happen when we leave.
No amount of sensible discussion or reasoning is going to convince the most obsessed Remoaners that their opinion is wrong, or their worse case scenario is not going to happen.
Maybe you're right - why not give it a go? Tell us what the plan is and how the bad things that have already started will get better.
1 - There is definitely a huge amount at stake
2 - There is definitely no coherent plan
3 - There is definitely very little time to come up with one
Can anyone deny any of these points? If not, then we are definitely in a bad situation, aren't we?
Maybe you're right - why not give it a go? Tell us what the plan is and how the bad things that have already started will get better.
I dont think weak attempts at trolling extends to coming up with any sort of plan, certainly nothing deeper than TNUMTWNT 😉
Can anyone deny any of these points?
Many people do... they just offer not facts
TNUMTWNT
Bona fide 100% Googlewhack, at least until this page gets reindexed.
https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=TNUMTWNT
ps do tell what it means!
.
ps do tell what it means!
mantra repeated by brexies when questioned about future trade deals with the EU
Research from Cardiff University into the overwhelming support for Leave from the Fishing Industry
A Survey by Cardiff University has been published which researched the overwhelming support for Brexit by fishermen and detailed a strong desire by the grassroots of the industry for a different approach from the heavily maligned CFP.
The survey resulted in responses from fishermen throughout the UK survey covering approximately 10% of skippers being the equivalent of a poll covering 3million voters.
With a relatively even distribution of responses covering all sizes and sectors of the industry the authors of the report are delighted that it is so representative of the grassroots views of the UK industry and what they want from Brexit.
The report irrefutably quantifies that the industry does not want the disastrous CFP continued or adopted into UK law with the Great “Repeal” Bill which the government proposes to do.
Despite the degradation the industry and coastal communities have suffered there is still a resilience to see a next generation of family go to the fishing.
Results showed a clear sense of stewardship, responsibility and a willingness to see British fisheries rebuilt and for the government and science to stop ignoring fishermens expertise.
The figures show an overwhelming majority of the grassroots industry see continuation of the disaster of quotas and the mass discarding of fish they cause as flogging a dead horse.
The industry recognise that Discard Ban address the symptom (discards) not the cause (quotas) with the majority wanting management through Days-at-Sea or Catch compositions instead.
This is in stark contrast to the position of those who purport to represent the industry who want to retain the system of quotas the grassroots are opposed to..
The serious question needs to be asked, given these figures, of who are they representing, the majority of the industry or a clique of vested “slipper skipper” quota interests?
The findings of this survey graphically illustrate the majority of industry want a fresh start, it will be Interesting if the government will betray Brexit and the opportunity of rejuvenating a £6.3bn industry by retaining the status quo to appease a minority of vested interests and for political convenience.
@Thebrick. I see United Airlines are consider Yorkshire Airways as a business model.
They Need Us More Than We Need Them
TNUMTWNT?
jambalaya - Member
Research from Cardiff University into the overwhelming support for Leave from the Fishing Industry
Research also shows that children overwhelmingly support replacing vegetables with Haribo and teenage boys want lots of pron. Does that make it good for them?
Research also shows that children overwhelmingly support replacing vegetables with Haribo and teenage boys want lots of pron. Does that make it good for them?
dont be silly the wise old men of the sea would never hunt a species to the edge of [url= http://www.leisurepro.com/blog/ocean-news/whale-species-extinction/ ]extinction[/url] and destroy their own livlihoods
Research from Cardiff University into the overwhelming support for Leave from the Fishing Industry
We know this, and with due recognition that everyone's opinion and livelihood matters, it directly employs 11,000 people, and the supposed benefits of leaving to fishing are already in significant dispute.
The fishermen illegally catching razor clams in Scotland are a shining example of how much they care about sustainability
1 - There is definitely a huge amount at stake
2 - There is definitely no coherent plan
3 - There is definitely very little time to come up with one
Can anyone deny any of these points? If not, then we are definitely in a bad situation, aren't we?
1) Agreed. What Remainers ignore is the massive cost and risk of staying in the EU
2) There is a plan, read TM's letter. Our focus will be global with a desire for a sensible deal with the EU and a transition period. If one is not available then we move on with WTO.
3) Yup time is short. The EU designed A50 to be so such that it would intimidate people to stay
Mol where there really is no plan at all is the EU. What are they going to do about the budget beyond 2019, what are they going to do about excessive debt
As for "facts" we got plenty of those of Remain about what would happen if we voted Leave. We can see how those have worked out.
I bet the fishermen want unicorns too.
"I want doesn't get" isn't just a put-down for greedy children, but is actually a rigid law of the universe when what is wanted simply does not exist.
2) There is a plan, read TM's letter. Our focus will be global with a desire for a sensible deal with the EU and a transition period. If one is not available then we move on with WTO.
well it hardly sounds like a plan to most people does it...
"The report irrefutably quantifies that the industry does not want the disastrous CFP continued or adopted into UK law with the Great “Repeal” Bill which the government proposes to do."
So in other words, more environmental protection laws.. sorry.. [i]"red tape"[/i].. that we will jettison during the Great Repeal Bill?
Is that a good thing?
Can we look forward to chemical companies saying they'd like shot of those pesky EU regulations that make disposing of toxic waste really expensive?
And business leaders wanting to ditch workers' rights regulations so they can go back to forcing people to do 70 hour weeks and asking the female staff to wear short skirts and flash a bit more cleavage?