[Closed] EU Referendum - are you in or out?

[quote=outofbreath ]I'd like to think that headline might be illegal under current laws. Surely it's libel.

I was kind of wondering that myself and started checking out the laws which do restrict our freedom of speech, but sadly I suspect they're OK on libel under the fair comment defence, and just about skirting within the other laws - though I realised that people far better qualified than me would already have thought of that, and the lack of any challenge in that direction means they probably got their lawyers to approve it.

mt - Glasgow born of good Scots stock, I have been in Yorkshire for ove twenty years quietly working on the very project you describe. The union and possible future nation in question shall be called Britain, as it encompasses the majority of the ethnically British people (as opposed to English) with the notable exception of the Welsh and Cornish. Our secret political movement is happy to consider membership for the kingdom of Cornwall and the principality of Wales, but they are demanding we pay them some sort of grant. This is proving a sticking point.
The remaining part of England, rump England or rE for short, is expected to unite with the Germanic nations with which it shares a common ethnic history, but this is expected to take several generations.
Given that the celtic British nation has for many years enjoyed a warm relationship with the Germanic nations, particularly the Low Countries, the Scots for example adopting their term for church, kirk, and naming a key area after John from Groats, it is expected that as time passes the relationship between Britain and England will also improve.

And we will all have joy and be joyful.

(By the way not all of this is accurate)

Does being a gay Olympian fencer mean that we are talking about someone who pulled on a uniform to represent his country?

Do you know, I think it might.

More than I've done for Britain. Probably more than most Mail or Express types too.

[quote=igm ]Does being a gay Olympian fencer mean that we are talking about someone who pulled on a uniform to represent his country?

Represent his country in combat...

Do you ninfan condemn the press or if that is a bit too much for you, think there is anything at all wrong with the headlines, sub-headlines and articles they printed about this?

Just to deflect your obvious and most likely response, I'll take a lack of answer as a no, and your answer to that will help to clarify things for most people on here.

Oh, you'll get an answer Aracer

The press should be absolutely free to publish whatever the hell they like as long as it is
i) true
ii) does not break laws on indecency or public order/incitement
iii) does not endanger national security
And the public should be entirely free to buy it, or not to buy it, as they see fit.

I think that in this case the headlines were wrong, because I don't think the judges are enemies of the people, but I will utterley defend the press having the right to say it, as much as I will defend my right to disagree with it.

Those on the left never cease to stop calling the press biased. As I said if you don't like what you see join Hacked Off and write to your MP to ensure he/she votes for Levinson Part 2 in 35-ish days and for a real press regulator and not the pathetic self serving organisation the press have setup. Don't be just a keyboard warrior do something about it !

Is that a yes or a no then? I'm not quite sure where you think this lies on points 1 and 2 (I know what I think, but wouldn't like to presume).

Yes or no, one word answer.

[quote=jambalaya ]Those on the left

😆 - though on second thoughts, whilst that's clearly not the case on here, the rest of the country appears to have lurched to the right whilst I wasn't paying attention. Can you move from being on the right (of centre) to the left without changing your views just because everybody else has become raving lunatics?

The press should be absolutely free to publish whatever the hell they like as long as it is
i) true

well theyve failed outright on your first point
they are not 'Enemeis of The People' thats obvious to anyone with half a brain

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/nov/07/brexit-cps-considers-complaint-that-leave-campaigns-misled-voters

so can we sue for jambafacts too?

Those on the left never cease to stop calling the press biased.

Pretty sure lots of people on the right say the same thing when they feel reporting is against their interests. I seem to recall people on this thread saying this during the Brexit campaign in fact.

Those on the left never cease to stop calling the press biased.

I know, Ive never heard any right wingers complain about the BBC EVER! 😳

Those on the left never cease to stop calling the press biased.

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If we're treating jamba's comment seriously, can I point out that you don't exactly have to be a member of the SWP to see the press bias in the last week. Unless of course Dominic Grieve, Bob Neill and Anna Soubry have all joined up in secret:

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/theresa-may-tory-mps-dominic-grieve-anna-soubry-to-speak-out-on-article-50-ruling-backlash_uk_581d9bece4b020461a1c7591

BTW what exactly is the political inclination of the Huff? It's often a good source for stuff the BBC doesn't cover, but I'm never sure what the bias is.

See every time someone mentions the blackshirts?

https://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2011/dec/06/dailymail-oswald-mosley

This^.

Hope none of you drive a Ford either, after all Henry was awarded a Grand Cross of the Supreme Order of the German Eagle due to Hitlers "personal admiration and indebtedness". That x86/ x86 64 processor in your computer was also invented by IBM who as everyone knows had an administrative hand in the holocaust. The less said about Volkswagen the better though, eh? Wouldn't want to rock that boat.

See, this is an easy game, anything else we can taint in its modern form due to its history? Of course nobody we are related to could possibly have said anything nice about Blackshirts or such could they? If they did we'd practically be in the SS.

jambalaya -
Don't be just a keyboard warrior...

See every time someone mentions the blackshirts?

https://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2011/dec/06/dailymail-oswald-mosley

This^

The problem is that brexishambles and the shit it has stirred up has reached such a velocity that its now blasted through the Godwin barrier, all us poor lefties dont know how to even frame this 'debate' anymore.

The mail using a front page about judges right out of 1930s germany being a case in point

[quote=kimbers ]The problem is that brexishambles and the shit it has stirred up has reached such a velocity that its now blasted through the Godwin barrier

I don't think Poe anticipated Brexshit either

😉

its now blasted through the Godwin barrier, all us poor lefties dont know how to even frame this 'debate' anymore.
The mail using a front page about judges right out of 1930s germany being a case in point

Unless they're fully aware of the historical complex and rather than stoking the fires of the right wing, are revelling in trolling the left because they know just what buttons to press to set off the howls of outrage.

Makes you think, eh?

Unless they're fully aware of the historical complex and rather than stoking the fires of the right wing, are revelling in trolling the left because they know just what buttons to press to set off the howls of outrage.

Makes you think, eh?

yeah coz the post brexit rise in hate crimes is just really funny trolling 🙄

While it may fill you with joy,
It wont comfort to the family of Arkadiusz Jozwik
[img] [/img]

is this like the time you tried to tell us Jo Cox's killer couldnt possibly be anything to do with the BNP?

Unless they're fully aware of the historical complex and rather than stoking the fires of the right wing, are revelling in trolling the left because they know just what buttons to press to set off the howls of outrage.

Makes you think, eh?

which is a VERY dangerous game to play.

I refer you to the article last week on foreign drivers using phones. There is a real issue here, but rather than the one that 1 in 3 drivers admit to using phones whilst driving the mail chose to focus on a small subset. Why would you single anyone group out???

Remember Jo Cox, it only takes one idiot to believe, to get people killed.

See, this is an easy game, anything else we can taint in its modern form due to its history? Of course nobody we are related to could possibly have said anything nice about Blackshirts or such could they? If they did we'd practically be in the SS.

The startling difference is that most others in the "modern form" have realised that the Blackshirts weren't such a great idea.
Whereas the Daily Mail has just adjusted its phrasing a little.

Unless they're fully aware of the historical complex and rather than stoking the fires of the right wing, are revelling in trolling the left because they know just what buttons to press to set off the howls of outrage.

So you would agree that the Express, mail and sun are comics then?

Yes or no?

I don't think the editorial staff of the Mail are bright enough - I think they are just think round two and junior Rothermere is following in his grandfather's footsteps.

Hurrah for the [/s]Blackshirts[s]kippers.

It wont comfort to the family of Arkadiusz Jozwik

And I'm sure that the joy of free movement of labour does little to comfort the family of Alice Gross, killed by Latvian Arnis Zalkalns, who was let into the UK despite being a convicted murderer.

See, two of us can play the heart wrenching tragedy game can't we?

Unless they're fully aware of the historical complex and rather than stoking the fires of the right wing, are revelling in trolling the left because they know just what buttons to press to set off the howls of outrage.

Unfortunately a large majority of their readership are under the impression that they are newspapers.

And I'm sure that the joy of free movement of labour does little to comfort the family of Alice Gross, killed by Latvian Arnis Zalkalns, who was let into the UK despite being a convicted murderer.

If he'd only been kept out of the UK, then a Latvian would've been killed instead, and that would have been MUCH better.

Lay off the press. How many countries can boost a press that is biased against all it's citizens?

And I'm sure that the joy of free movement of labour does little to comfort the family of Alice Gross, killed by Latvian Arnis Zalkalns, who was let into the UK despite being a convicted murderer.

See, two of us can play the heart wrenching tragedy game can't we?

Ahem, Jo cox killed by a British national.

If he'd only been kept out of the UK, then a Latvian would've been killed instead, and that would have been MUCH better.

I think the point is that the authorities in Latvia knew he was a murderer so were more likely to keep tabs on him. The authorities here were not aware band even when he was questioned about an earlier child abduction here our police did not find the Latvian authorities forthcoming about his previous convictions - no information was shared despite the fact it existed and could have helped to prosecute him for the first offence here well before the second offence and subsequent murder.

David "Reality deficit disorder" Davis is making a statement to the House of Commons at the moment.

He has just jeered at those who did not like result of first referendum and so want another go.

Just minutes after he announces an appeal...

See, two of us can play the heart wrenching tragedy game can't we?

Ninfan - surely that might to some extent have been addressed by closer ties and better cooperation with Latvia prior to his arrival?
You are making a case for better integration for Latvians will still be able to come here even in the hardest Brexit (possibly not to work of course, but once you've murdered what's a little abuse of a holiday visa?).

Not equivalent issues - though I accept without question the pain is equivalent to both families.

ninfan - Member

See, two of us can play the heart wrenching tragedy game can't we?

I think only one person here thinks it's a game tbh

Alice Gross

Bravo ninfan, give yourself a big pat on the back

I have a lot more to say about that, but for civility's sake I wont

Yes or no, nonfat?

Autocorrect, but I'll leave it, I'm sure you know what I mean

Doesn't matter who gets killed, it's always bad.

It also, crucially, does not matter WHERE the killer was from.

How dare these foreign killers come over here undercutting good English maniacs like the Yorkshire Ripper and Fred West.

so can we sue for jambafacts too?

You can bring a legal action for pretty much anything - there's a downside of course if the case is found to be spurious.

Now there's ironing.

🙂 yes I definitely waste far too much time here ! I put a few quid into Vote Leave and Fullfact and did my bit leafletting and doing street stalls, been part of Hacked Off for many years. Try and balance (too many) words with (some) action.

We know what Farage will be wearing tonight:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hereford-worcester-37897103

David "Reality deficit disorder" Davis is making a statement to the House of Commons at the moment.

And once again managed to be speaking for an hour while saying absolutely nothing

Still no detail whatsoever

Still doing everything in their power to ensure they avoid any scrutiny or democratic oversight to whatever they're cooking up.

If it wasn't so potentially catastrophic it'd be comical!

But to be honest with you, the Labour parties response is so muddled and impotent I suppose they've just (correctly) assumed that they're prepared to stick two fingers up to democratic accountability and just brazen it out, and they'll get away with it.

I dread to think what unworkable cloud cuckoo-land nonsense they're going to present us with at the end of March

I dread to think what unworkable cloud cuckoo-land nonsense they're going to present us with at the end of March

They will present nothing at the end of March apart from an A50 vote/bill/letter
Sometime before March 2019 we'll hear what the deal is likely to be
In March 2019 we will hear the final deal, or more likely an interim deal

All during this process we will get many many leaks from the EU side about how tough they are being

All parties can fight the 2020 GE on their International (inc EU) trade neogotiations position

They will present nothing at the end of March apart from an A50 vote/bill/letter
Sometime before March 2019 we'll hear what the deal is likely to be
In March 2019 we will hear the final deal, or more likely an interim deal

All during this process we will get many many leaks from the EU side about how tough they are being

All parties can fight the 2020 GE on their International (inc EU) trade neogotiations position

Yes....

& sometime between now & the Second Coming Brexit will actually happen.....in the meantime loads of folks are going to get screwed over & we are going to have to endure a nightmare period of politics lurching ever further to the right....

Still, it'll all be worth it as "We've taken back CONTROL....."

Except that it seems that the CONTROL we've taken back isn't palatable as the checks & balances that are in the place are threatening to derail the Gov's attempt to steam roller through a complete & utter dogs dinner of a divorce without any accountability - which, & lets be kind, they thought they could get away with...!!!!

AND BREATH.....
👿