[Closed] EU Referendum - are you in or out?

It does make a difference, in particular to how the country is perceived abroad.

And there could be knock on effects not yet obvious.

Struggles like this don't turn in a day, they are a long haul.

Aside from being supremely overly negative it absolutely failed fo grasp that the 52 are deloghted with the result and optimistic for the future.

the 52% aren't the ones who earn money in the Uk, as a very general rule they are a drain on the UKs finances.

So what you have is 48% being hit for more taxes to pay for this. Whilst at the same time gaining nothing, not technically true gain a load of ball ache!

Aside from being supremely overly negative it absolutely failed fo grasp that the 52 are deloghted with the result and optimistic for the future.

All of them?

[i]Shirley seems genuinely worried that the £350m number might not be true. She resolves to charter a bus with Peta from the north-east to meet the new foreign secretary. “I would go mad if this money doesn’t go into the NHS, I will go mad. I want to be assured that this money – because that’s why I voted to come out,” says Shirley.[/i]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/aug/09/post-brexit-sunderland-if-this-money-doesnt-go-to-the-nhs-i-will-go-mad

I do hope she's feeling OK, dear Shirley!

Project Aramgeddon had a short term recession similar to 2008-10 and that has been shown to be a total load of sh.te

Ok, so if we get through it all without any negative impact, then I'll be happy to be wrong.

The specifics aren't important. The warning was of negative impact. You can't wait 6 months then say 'oh it's all going to be fine!'.

You are not being honest Jam.

Actually just thought of something re the NHS. What percentage of our drugs/materials/expenses are from abroad and priced in currencies other than GBP? How much would a 20% drop in sterling have wiped off the budget already?

[url= https://www.ft.com/content/7dbf749d-f9b4-38b5-b6ed-0d7463698a2d ]FT[/url]

taking back control, yep, the idiots who screwed the UK will seize all the power for themselves with very few checks and balances.

@molgrips losing the European Medicines Agency is a significant blow to the UK's pharma industry too (so says my other half who works in it, bt what would she know eh?).

Not to mention the 900 **proper tax-paying jobs, the ripple effects on the families and outwards.

** ie they actually contribute more than they take!

Anyone can see the shit has yet to hit the fan.

Except Jam - he thinks it's all gonna be great. Except I think that if he's honest, he knows he's just exhibiting confirmation bias, but the confrontational nature of this thread is making him dig in even more. I wish he'd be honest about it - we'd give him less of a hard time.

so says my other half who works in it

She out of work then? Sorry to hear that.

She out of work then? Sorry to hear that.

Thank you, in the industry not the EMA thankfully. I feel sorry for those guys. Still when redundancies are going around we know the brave leavers will be stepping up to go first don't we.

but the confrontational nature of this thread is making him dig in even more

I've not been following it, how is the in vs out balance?

I've had my share of angry moments (I'm still ****ing livid about leavers voting to strip me and my child of our rights of FOM against my consent, I take that personally) but I do my best not to be confrontational. It won't change any minds - and the doubtful centre is where change would come from too, confrontation won't help there.

Jamba - every time you say Project Fear or Project Armageddon I know you mean the remain campaign which set out fairly straightforwardly why leaving was going to cause pain for those least able to afford it.

I know that's what you mean but due to the fact it's only Brexies that use the terms I associate them with the leave campaign and more recently the 3 Brexmigos.

I mean can you think of anyone better than BoJo, Fox and Davies as a personification of Project Armageddon?

Work May in as Death and you have the four horsemen.

I've had my share of angry moments (I'm still ****ing livid about leavers voting to strip me and my child of our rights of FOM against my consent, I take that personally) but I do my best not to be confrontational. It won't change any minds - and the doubtful centre is where change would come from too, confrontation won't help there.

Problem is now that the executive have been given unfettered power, where are the checks and balances to prevent them doing as they please? It is now more than ever we need an effective opposition party.

So the holiday is over soon for you Brexshiters. I reckon by Christmas we will know a good amount about how much you lot have set this country back by.

You had your tantrum, shat your nappy and only now is the stink going to really permeate. And ultimately, although you think you have proven a point, all that you (and the rest of us) are really left with is to sit in a shitty nappy until a grown up cleans up the mess. But no one is coming to change the nappy.

Well done.

well if he's saying the remain campaign was poor he's spot on!

reality is leave won and that's where, quite rightly, the scrutiny is.

danny I tend to think of shitting bed not nappy. they shat the bed then want us all to "pull together" and lie on it.

declining to occupy their shat bed makes one, naturally, a traitor.

well if he's saying the remain campaign was poor he's spot on!

How could the Tories campaign for an organisation that they had scapegoated for 40years?

That the result was so close actually says something!

I wonder if any brexiters ever exercised their rights to freedom of movement?

It's a bit like people who don't take foreign holidays wanting to close the airports.

danny I tend to think of shitting bed not nappy. they shat the bed then want us all to "pull together" and lie on it.

declining to occupy their shat bed makes one, naturally, a traitor.

Which is why so many have taken out second passports so they can find a different bed if need be.

I work in a multinational company, so hopefully if our economy tanks I can get relocated to an EU country that might be doing better. Better keep my eye on the internal job boards.

Which is why so many have taken out second passports so they can find a different bed if need be.

I know someone from NI who voted leave, happily voting to remove my 5 yr old daughter's FOM rights, and is now getting Irish passports for his kids so they can keep it.

You couldn't make it up.

Regrettably I have the misfortune to be 100% English, no such option for my little girl.

@molgrips don't blame you. Brain drain is another of the negative consequences here.

mrmo - Member

the 52% aren't the ones who earn money in the Uk, as a very general rule they are a drain on the UKs finances.

What? 😕
Benefit cheat foreigners from overseas voted for Brexit to scupper our beautiful country? 😯
Bastards. We should vote OUT, that'll learn 'em! 😈

Don't worry mrmo, I am only joking.
I also love to vilify the poor. 🙂

[i]BR =- so you are a leaver and accept it will cause damage to the economy for 25 years? [/I]

Nope, check my posts and you'll see I am very much a Remainer.

My experience of life/business/travelling makes me believe that it'll hit us hard for years - and not just in my middle-class land, but it'll hit those struggling already especially hard in the future.

mattjg - Member

I've not been following it, how is the in vs out balance?

Overwhelmingly in, not that it is of relevance.

The only purpose of this thread is to remind STWers that they are not representative of the UK pop, and that although the hive mind always thinks it's right, is actually always the minority.
💡

lol.

the un-revolution starts here. just wait while I get my slippers.

dannyh - Member

So the holiday is over soon for you Brexshiters. I reckon by Christmas we will know a good amount about how much you lot have set this country back by.

You had your tantrum

Accusing those who voted out of having a childish outburst would probably have carried more weight if you hadn't lacked the maturity to first refrain from referring to them with a playground slur.

Don't you think? 🙂

No, by Christmas we will have very little concrete news but A LOT of dramatic headlines. I expect this to include numerous threats to withdraw the UK's rebate. It will include proposals for Travel Visas. It will incoude even larger "divorce bill" numbers. See comment below about elections.

Headline agreement on EU nationals both ways
UK has already agreed to continue domestic funding previously provided by the EU. EU will claim this is part of divorce settlement, we will say we already agreed to fund UK projects

Not a lot else, no decision on trade, no decsion on "settlement" ... just a lot of posturing

To be honest the biggest news between now and Christmas will be who wins the French and German eelctions. Until we know that the EU cannot agree anything.

Let's just take a moment to have a look, and a moment of quiet reflection at the heavyweight intellectuals who set us on this road, shall we?

It'd be *ing hilarious if it weren't such a total *ing car crash!

Don't blame that poor lady, blame Boris, he's made a career from that bullshit.

I'm blaming both the scheming lying bastards peddling this nonsense, and the half-wits who swallowed it, along with the rest of the £350 million a week to the NHS bullshit!

we will say we already agreed to fund UK projects

Some UK projects, 'till 2020 only.

Jamba - utter nonsense to say that wesminster has agreed to fund all EU funded projects. Wales, Cornwall and Scotand have all been told by westminster this will not happen.

I know someone from NI who voted leave, happily voting to remove my 5 yr old daughter's FOM rights, and is now getting Irish passports for his kids so they can keep it.

Farage has sorted passports for his kids as well. Just to make you angrier.

Farage has sorted passports for his kids as well. Just to make you angrier.

I wish you hadn't told me that.

I'm blaming both the scheming lying bastards peddling this nonsense, and the half-wits who swallowed, it along with the rest of the £350 million a week to the NHS bullshit!

I would also blame the moderates who let this Anti-EU/immigration agenda from the loonies and their media allies rumble on since the 1990's.

I trust that this mistake will not be repeated a second time after this mess has been cleared up.

Binners, the whole banana discussion is one about EU interference, rules for rules sake. The French are every bit as p.ssed off about that nonsense too.

When I pointed out on here 3 or 4 years ago that immigration was a major issue I was shouted down as a swivel eyed DM reading loon. Issue not taken seriously ... public sends a message.

Don't be mad at Vote Leave, the responsibility for our exit lies with an intransigent EU. Junker et al took a hardline punt and lost. Germany has a more flexible benefits system and is banning EU nationals from claiming unemployment benefits for 5 years.

Farage's wife is German, I imagine they've always had German passports and why not especially as he and his wife are basically seperated ?

The EU has its flaws and Junker doesn't do it any favours, however leaving it fixes none of them at the cost of profound damage to our kids' future.

I've spent some time on leaver forums (hoping against hope I would find they are rational and correct), but they hate him, and Sturgeon, with a vengeance. To the point they're blinded by it I would say.

When I pointed out on here 3 or 4 years ago that immigration was a major issue I was shouted down as a swivel eyed DM reading loon.

Oh I don't know, I think to be fair immigration was an issue for swivel eyed DM reading loons. 😉

Farage's wife is German, I imagine they've always had German passports and why not especially as he and his wife are basically seperated ?

Ah. Of course. Forgotten that that's why he doesn't like Germans 😉

Don't be mad at Vote Leave

Sorry Jamba, compared to the Brexies the EU comes across a model of flexible thinking and reasonableness, and the EU never did me any harm. The Brexies have already done harm, and will continue to do so. I'm mad at the Brexies.

From The Spectator. See in particular the last highlighted sentence

Countdown to Brexit

The wait is over – almost. Today Downing Street announced that Theresa May will trigger Article 50, the first formal step in Britain’s departure from the EU, on 29 March. In the same briefing, the Prime Minister's spokesman put an end to speculation about an early election – stating that 'there is not going to be one until 2020'.

When the Prime Minister formally triggers Article 50 next Wednesday, the two-year process for Britain leaving the EU will begin. Many in government expect the start of the talks to be difficult: ‘get ready for a spot of turbulence’ says one of those intimately involved in the preparations for the negotiations. The expectation is that the EU will insist the so-called ‘divorce bill’ must be settled first while the UK is adamant that it will only discuss that if the future trade relationship between the UK and the EU is also on the table.

Jean-Claude Juncker, president of the European Commission, certainly seems taken with the idea of a costly exit for the UK. In an interview to Bild, the German tabloid, he has boasted that no other EU country will consider leaving the union once they see how harshly Britain will be treated in the negotiations: ‘They will all see from Britain’s example that leaving the EU is a bad idea.’ As Fraser notes, Juncker's comments suggest that Boris Johnson wasn't so wide of the mark when he made a point a few weeks ago about the EU negotiations and the futility of the idea of punishing Britain - 'in the manner of some World War II movie' - for the sake of it.

But there is a way for the talks to get off to a more positive start: that is with an early agreement on a reciprocal rights deal for EU citizens in the UK and vice-versa. James reports that the UK government is keen on this; ministers repeatedly reassured MPs that they would try and get this done as soon as possible, as they tried to get the Brexit bill through parliament. Interestingly, the EU also wants to get this done quickly. [b]Michel Barnier, the Commission’s chief negotiator, has talked about how citizens must come first and the Spanish, who host the largest UK population in the EU, have repeatedly made clear that they would be happy with a reciprocal deal[/b].

Touche @igm 🙂

@matt the UK has tried amd tried to get the EU to reform and to change direction butbthe bureaucrats are only intrested in one project and that's the Superstate. We had to leave now or we would have been crushed to death as per the Boa Constrictor metaphor I have used before.

Accusing those who voted out of having a childish outburst would probably have carried more weight if you hadn't lacked the maturity to first refrain from referring to them with a playground slur.

Don't you think?

Probably, but it wasn't the playground slur itself, but its scatological basis that suggested it. My thinking becomes overwhelmingly excrement-based when I think about this fiasco.

Anyhow, just so long as Jamba and his acolytes hang around for the next six months and beyond so that they can be held accountable.

But of course by then it will be 'petty foreigners' who won't bend over backwards to accommodate us. I mean what reasonable person wouldn't help someone who has just kicked them in the balls then come back cap in hand?

How we handle immigration, and benefits, is down to our government Jamba, not the EU, as your comment about the German benefit system reminds us. The EU is just the bogeyman for decisions made here. The UK government allowed Eastern European immigrants in when other EU countries did not, because it was massively in our national interest to do so. We don't do more (and we could do plenty more) about EU immigrants claiming benefits, because it is a non problem. The numbers are tiny, and the workers claiming those benefits are beneficial to our economy anyway.

Jamba - the EU types have always been pretty reasonable over displaced citizens (like as I understand it you and your wife alternately are). In fact going to see them this week has been the first positive move on the subject - unlike May's bargaining chip stance.

I think we ended up agreeing it'd take 10 years to settle down, and a generation before we might start been in a better place than now.

We had to leave now or we would have been crushed to death as per the Boa Constrictor metaphor I have used before.

I just don't buy it myself.

And even if I did, versus being walled in with people of the the general qualities of the leavers I have corresponded with, it's probably preferable.

That's one of the tragedies here, simultaneously with shafting the economy the leavers cancel FOM and kick the legs out from anyone trying to get away from the consequences of their vote. As I've said before, couldn't make it up!

[i]Michel Barnier, the Commission’s chief negotiator, has talked about how citizens must come first and the Spanish, who host the largest UK population in the EU, have repeatedly made clear that they would be happy with a reciprocal deal.[/I]

What! As many Spaniards could come here uncontrolled, we voted to CONTROL immigration, didn't we? 😉

haven't read all the posts and expect it's been mentioned but looks like EU hols and visits are going to be far more of a pain requiring electronic application with numerous boxes to tick as well as expensive not just because of the poor exchange rate but the cost of comprehensive medical insurance as a result of it being likely we'll lose EHIC and possibly all reciprocal healthcare. Many people with serious pre existing conditions may find travel prohibitively expensive. I reckon it's a total disaster and a waste of time and vast sums of money . This country is already a mess and brexiteers have added the final straw.Very Very foolish imo.

I find myself astonished at the near-consensus for remain here. Has common sense broken out on STW Chat while I've been away?

Binners, the whole banana discussion is one about EU interference, rules for rules sake

Do you know what the 'banana' rules actually are, Jam?

the UK has tried amd tried to get the EU to reform

Are you blaming the EU for not reforming, or the UK for being shit at reforming it? Ever think it might be the UK's fault?

And if it's the superstate threat you're so worried about, why not EEA? Why not soft Brexit?

the cost of comprehensive medical insurance as a result of it being likely we'll lose EHIC and possibly all reciprocal healthcare. Many people with serious pre existing conditions may find travel prohibitively expensive.

Probably my parents' last trip to Europe this summer then, in that case.

Probably my parents' last trip to Europe this summer then, in that case.

They should be OK for 2018.

molgrips - Member

Do you know what the 'banana' rules actually are, Jam?

Are they the ones that contribute to horrific food waste because the food looks a bit funny? 💡

I find myself astonished at the near-consensus for remain here

The whole straight banana thing was made up by boris johnson when he was a journalist covering europe

It was. There are rules for fruit and veg quality classification, and one of them says for the top grade that fruit must be of acceptable visual quality or something like that.

Don't be mad at Vote Leave, the responsibility for our exit lies with an intransigent EU. Junker et al took a hardline punt and lost.

Getting your excuses in early eh Jambalaya.

I bet a sizeable portion of leave voters didn't even know who Juncker is. More than 2% at any rate.

[img] [/img]

LOL

molgrips - Member

There are rules for fruit and veg quality classification, and one of them says for the top grade that fruit must be of acceptable visual quality or something like that.

Feast your eyes on this for a massive crock of bollocks:

[url= http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX:32011R1333 ]Jesus wept![/url]

molgrips - Member

I bet a sizeable portion of leave voters didn't even know who Juncker is.

Ooh, I know!

He's that indefensible morally corrupt bent bastard that stole taxes from the EU by letting big business pay peanuts to his own country, whilst promising to do the exact opposite and probably lining his own pockets at the same time.

He's a ****ing snake.

Allegedly.

Sorry, scratch that; I voted to remain.

Sbob - having written the odd (company) standard and read many of all types, I've seen a lot worse than that. Most of it is really just "must be if merchantable standard and traceable" - and then trying to define what those terms mean.

its my the right as an Englishman to buy a banana of any curvature that damn well pleases me

even if said bananas are now more expensive thanks to Brexit

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39337909

Bananas can now be cheaper as the bendy ones won't be being binned. 🙂

Yeah its all the EUs fault that we waste so much food

[img] [/img]

thats not per head

so germany which has 15% more peopel than us does better than that

france and italy have similar population sizes to us, but the Dutch have a quarter of our population so they are the worst

I have more issue with the colour. They're an unpatriotic fruit. If we'd have had red, white and blue bananas earlier, then maybe we wouldn't be having a red, white and blue brexit now.

Makes you think....

as we go back to Britania of yore they will become very rare any way, unless we plan to retake the colonies...

I think that is actually the plan

One of my pet theories on Brexit is the myth that we are "special" because we were the **only European country that "won" both World Wars, by which I mean we ended up on the right side and weren't invaded. I also think this experience explains the tighter Eu cohesion amongst the mainland EU countries.

** yes I realise there are others such as ROI, and the UK contributed massively but the USSR and USA made Nazi defeat possible. Brexiters don't think that hard. We're special and they owe us. Got it?

You can get red or pink bananas, also bluey green and even purple. And they are white in the middle. So they might be a bit patriotic.

even if said bananas are now more expensive thanks to Brexit

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39337909
br />

More BBC bias 😉

Meanwhile in la la land.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39335904

Everyone from Jambalaya to the 72 are getting their excuses in early it would seem.

Just had a thought. Red, white and blue brexit - that means our terms will be dictated by the French, Dutch, Czechs, Croats, Luxembougers and Slovenians.

It's a comspiracy!

tjagain - Member

The whole straight banana thing was made up by boris johnson when he was a journalist covering europe

molgrips - Member

It was.

EU actually says -
bananas must be free from malformation or abnormal curvature of the fingers

Also the most superior of bananas must have no defects in shape.
We wouldn't want that would we children?
Oh no, we want the best bananas, and all bananas to be the best.
A superior race of bananas if you will, all defective bananas to be destroyed, or fed to the pigs.

Sound familiar?

'Cause that's what happens when you let Fritz hold the reigns. My poor Grandfather would be turning in his grave, which should have been in his country of birth but not content with letting Hermann trample all over it, the allies saw fit to give it to those Russian savages.

Juncker? Junkers more like. I know when I can smell the Boche. Have you even been to Luxembourg? Even Edinburgh is more ethnically diverse.
Angela Merkel? German.
Martin Schulz? German.
Even their names line up, totally uniform. A uniform probably stitched together by our friend Hugo.
I see Schulz has unashamedly handed over to one of his old allies, no surprise there. Mind you, apart from one token ineffectual green, the only other candidates were Italian and Belgian, and it was always going to go to of Junkers boys anyway.

Sod all that though. I'm off to eat an apple. From Britain. Definitely not Chile.

kimbers - Member

Yeah its all the EUs fault that we waste so much food

Sod off with your strawman lest I burn it down, reminiscent of 304 squadron's sortie over Rotterdam.

Camping in France

I went shopping and was impressed at the non uniformity of the veg in the local Spa

Feeling the heady excitement as a stranger in a strange land, liberated from the uniformity of sainsburys and tescos I bought the wonkiest, most malformed red and green peppers in the shop.

Back at the campsite we prepared our standard budget mtbing meal of chorizo, pasta, tomatoes and peppers only to find that both peppers were mishapen because some insects had laid a load of grubs/eggs inside them.

laesson learned, only buy straight fruit & veg

igm - Member

Sbob - having written the odd (company) standard and read many of all types, I've seen a lot worse than that. Most of it is really just "must be if merchantable standard and traceable" - and then trying to define what those terms mean.

Yeah, but it doesn't even manage that, and it doesn't even cover all bananas!
I'm going to wibble into a greengage.

Sod all that though. I'm off to eat an apple. From Britain. Definitely not Chile.

Do it while you can, British produce will be going up in price quickly so it'll either be exported for "hard currency" or replaced by cheap to harvest wheat.

lesson learned, only buy [s]straight fruit & veg[/s] booze and fags from Spar

🙂

mattjg - Member

Do it while you can, British produce will be going up in price quickly so it'll either be exported for "hard currency" or replaced by cheap to harvest wheat.

I assure you my Cox's Pippin will be unchanged in price. 😀

You'll be exporting them to pay for shoes.

Has ths bin dun yit

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