Government is going to appeal to Supreme Court.
If it is upheld they can try the European Court ( lol) .
IDS is fuming! More lol.
UKIP are asking for judges to be sacked!!
democratic process
This is the thing. The referendum wasn't democracy - it was an abuse of the term. Through misinformation, bare-faced lies, and the whipping up of people's basest and most unpleasant instincts, a bunch of privileged public schoolboys, for which all this is just a game, were able to convince a slim majority that they could get rid of foreigners, and have an extra £350million every week for the NHS, if we were out of the EU.
It was lies.
If you had a referendum on whether to bring back hanging, it would probably be "yes".
If you had a referendum on whether we should send the darkies back 'ome, it would probably be "yes".
It doesn't mean we should actually ****ing do it.
[i]I have tried to remain calm and just accept the remoaners will keep moaning about the decision, but I am getting ready to riot. If triggering article 50 gets blocked I'll be rioting and I hope the civil unrest ensues.[/i]
Calm down princess, it was a British court not a European court decision. That's what you want no? We got our control back...
Come again.Don't blame us that you didn't read the instructions.
This is the thing. The referendum wasn't democracy - it was an abuse of the term.
How was it we got into the EU in the first place? 😆
Parliament took us in… there have been two referendum on staying in.
The referendum was advisory to then allow the government to decide how to proceed. It was part of how it was written so to claim it's a blah blah blah [insert daily wail headline] whatever is a bit futile. When you can get all 17 million to agree what kind of breakfast/brexit you want get back to us. Until then I suggest avoiding the News Quiz on Friday night, it's going to be a good one
It would be interesting to know if the Scottish Independence Referendum had the same clause hidden in it, making its result completely meaningless as well....
Also, if the EU referendum vote was indeed pointless, how do people feel about all the public funds being spent on the remain campaign?
but I am getting ready to riot. If triggering article 50 gets blocked I'll be rioting and I hope the civil unrest ensues.
British pride at its best.
In all seriousness I doubt many brexiters will riot unless they can do so near a Greggs.
does this mean the NHS won't be getting the extra £350million/week we were promised?
😆
ahwiles - Memberdoes this mean the NHS won't be getting the extra £350million/week we were promised?
RIOT!!
British pride at its best.
Sounds French to me.
MP's votes involve walking through a side so it's all in the open. After that the pinnacle of the UK's elected democracy the Lords will have a crack, oh the ironing, so much ironing to do
For all its failings having an un-elected upper house does free them from party control and means they can slow a process and allow for some moderation of populist policies. A somewhat objective (how objective is debatable) second approver should not in theory hurt the policy if it is sound
UKIP are asking for judges to be sacked!!
and ironically are these not the same judges that they have spent years telling us should be making all the important decisions?[img]
[/img]For all its failings having an un-elected upper house does free them from party control and means they can slow a process and allow for some moderation of populist policies
the point being (like above) a key part of TAKE BACK CONTROL was not having unelected people making decisions.
A reminder re the 'democratic deficit':
All thats happened here (quite correctly) is whether Article 50 can be initiated by Royal prerogative or not.
It's not: Brexit can't happen, or "thwarting the will of the people”- it simply says that Royal prerogative does NOT supercede Parliament in this case, and explains why –
It's the High Court, part of our government, doing exactly what they were created to do: rendering a judgement in a case of disagreement.
[i]The whole world will be laughing at us we will be speaking German next[/i]
Dail Mail comments are amazing on that story...
According to a survey of all 650 MPs carried out by the Press Association ahead of the referendum on June 23:480 MPs said they would be voting Remain, including 184 Conservatives
159 MPs said they would be voting Leave, including 139 Conservatives
11 MPs were undeclared, including four Conservative.This gives Remain a notional Commons majority of at least 310.
[quote=crazy-legs ]Satire sites are quick off the mark
http://newsthump.com/2016/10/18/man-who-demanded-sovereignty-of-parliament-outraged-by-sovereignty-of-parliament/
They're barely having to try - cushiest job ever writing satirical stuff about Brexit
The referendum wasn't democracy - it was an abuse of the term. Through misinformation, bare-faced lies, and the whipping up of people's basest and most unpleasant instincts, a bunch of privileged public schoolboys, for which all this is just a game, were able to convince a slim majority that they could get rid of foreigners, and have an extra £350million every week for the NHS, if we were out of the EU.
You've nailed. I doubt most people went beyond this somethingion.
Although I don't blame the people it was just downright messy.
Brexit just hit it's iceburg
The Bank of England revising its forecasts... Better next year. Worse in 2018.
STOP MAKING THINGS UP. YOU HAVEN'T GOT A CLUE.
@mikewsmith "The underlying issues are at the feet of the UK Government, they already have the power to fix them. It's just easier to blame Immigrants/EU/somebody else than accept that on both sides of politics they have left people behind. "
Agreed
Cleggie is making use of the opportunity to take the piss:
https://twitter.com/nick_clegg/status/794127611358310400
a coherent #Brexit plan that works for all
😆
It would be interesting to know if the Scottish Independence Referendum had the same clause hidden in it
What hidden clause? It was an Advisory Referendum.
[i]Are MPs principled individuals in the job to help better the lot of their constituents, or are they chancers focused on getting elected to further their own careers. [/I]
I think you pretty much know the answer already, the only ones who'll do the right thing are those:
- due to retire
- huge majorities
- private income
- Dennis Skinner and equivalent members of the various Tory/Labour awkward squads
I'm 95% sure that all the SNP MP's will vote Remain.
[quote=b r ]I think you pretty much know the answer already, the only ones who'll do the right thing are those:
- huge majorities
or just in a constituency where they'll vote for a [s]MP who votes remain[/s] monkey with a red rosette? Which I presume applies to a lot of the constituencies where the MP's position conflicts with that of their constituents.
It does still strike me though with folks like flanagaj mindlessly relying on 51% having voted to leave as a mandate to ignore the wishes of the 49%, that all reports suggest another referendum held tomorrow would probably have a different result. Is our current course really the will of the people?
lucky7500 - Member
It would be interesting to know if the Scottish Independence Referendum had the same clause hidden in it, making its result completely meaningless as well....
It wasn't "hidden"- you just weren't paying attention.
They are voting on a different thing now though. They will be voting on whether to uphold the referendum result. There will be an awful lot of shouting from the leavers that they have been betrayed if their MP doesn't follow the referendum result.According to a survey of all 650 MPs carried out by the Press Association ahead of the referendum on June 23:480 MPs said they would be voting Remain, including 184 Conservatives
159 MPs said they would be voting Leave, including 139 Conservatives
11 MPs were undeclared, including four Conservative.This gives Remain a notional Commons majority of at least 310.
Here's why nothing will change: [url= http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-legal-challenge-article-50-high-court-ruling-jeremy-corbyn-a7395101.html ]Labour will vote for Brexit in parliament.[/url] Corbyn doesn't like the EU and wants us out.
Brexiteers, you can put your pitchforks down, all this will ultimately do is further legitimise Brexit - now it's not just going to be mandated by the referendum but also by a parliamentary vote which will go in your favour.
Or you can get out there and riot your manboobs off, whatever, like I said we need a laugh.
Looks like Labours official position will be to support Brexit.
“This ruling underlines the need for the Government to bring its negotiating terms to parliament without delay. Labour respects the decision of the British people to leave the European Union. But there must be transparency and accountability to parliament on the terms of Brexit.“Labour will be pressing the case for a Brexit that works for Britain, putting jobs, living standards and the economy first.”
Unfortunately, I think this sounds like simply a continuation of their current position which is to say that anything offered is not good enough. I would prefer them to keep saying exactly what their compromises might be in order to secure their wish list. It all sounds far too similar to May's 'Best deal possible' bollocks.
You seem to be assuming that Corbyn has control of Labour MPs. We all know that he's an enthusiastic Brexiteer.
[quote=AlexSimon ]There will be an awful lot of shouting from the leavers that they have been betrayed if their MP doesn't follow the referendum result.
Or rioting? Though see my point up there, that Brexit doesn't actually have majority support of the population.
I'm assuming he has enough sway, combined with MPs sense of self preservation, for Brexit not to be overturned by parliament. I hope I'm wrong! But I don't believe I am.
I think Corbyn would have wanted Brexit under Labour, but Brexit under the Tories is a very different beast.
I'm not sure whether their arguments are structured well enough to affect anything. It's just too easily brushed off by May in the same way she does with the 'Unlimited Welfare' argument.
It is only going to delay Brexit, but at least there should be a clear path for what it means.
Now let's see how demon-cracy works.
This should be interesting coz if the referendum is not respected nothing is.
Woohoo! Anarchy!
All due to some sore losers.
I've said it before, if the Labour and Tory whips decide that they should abstain, then Remain will still win with the SNP, Libs and those Labour/Tory MP's who ignore the whip.
Although Corbyn will obviously vote Leave 🙂
According to a survey of all 650 MPs carried out by the Press Association ahead of the referendum on June 23:480 MPs said they would be voting Remain, including 184 Conservatives
159 MPs said they would be voting Leave, including 139 Conservatives
11 MPs were undeclared, including four Conservative.This gives Remain a notional Commons majority of at least 310.
OK, but... That's not how it works. Yes there'll be a load of MPs who'll vote for the result they personally want, or for the result they feel the country needs- but there'll be a lot that feel it's their duty to support the referendum. Which is probably how it should work tbh...
It's just quite sad to have this very grey thing polarised into black and white, you just end up with everyone entrenched and certain and nobody actually [i]right[/i]. Or really all that bothered about whether they're right or not.
To be honest I dismay at the state of parliament.
A really good honest debate about the brexit deal would be great, unfortunately we'll just get a twitter-spat version of that. All posture and no listening. Edit: What NW said
I can assure that I was. If it was widely known to only be an advisory vote, why has it taken a high court judgement months after the event to get to this point?It wasn't "hidden"- you just weren't paying attention.
It would be interesting to know if the Scottish Independence Referendum had the same clause hidden in it, making its result completely meaningless as well....
was the Indy Ref legally binding rather than just advisory?
was the Indy Ref legally binding rather than just advisory?
It was binding, unlike the EU in/out Referendum held on the 23rd June 2016*
EDIT: At least that's what I have been led to believe
*EDIT #2 for clarity
My tory mp wants to vote out.
Against the wishes of his constituents and his party leader (well the pre brexit version anyway)
