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jambalaya - Member
In other news Merkel has supposedly made a number of approaches to sugget she visits Washington.
Self invitation I see. 😆
Trump's team have not even replied, thus likely first meeting at G7 in May or G20 in July which Germany are hosting. Far from calming his rhetoric on Germany post his victory he reiterated his view on the folly of Germany accepting 1m people about whom they knew very little. The pressure is mounting.
It looks like they might go to the back of the queue ... 😛
tjagain - Member
No comment on this from the anti EU lot or the pro nukes lot?
Who else can build nuke plant(s)?
you mean a bit like your IMO , I think , etc.... 😉
car makers investment in the UK has dropped by millions post Brexit vote .
and to rely on Trump post Brexit is insane .
cchris2lou - Member
you mean a bit like your IMO , I think , etc....
I is the furniture. 😆
Everyone is jockeying for position in the car market so what's new? The question is who will make the first big move.car makers investment in the UK has dropped by millions post Brexit vote .
and to rely on Trump post Brexit is insane .
I think you will find that in reality many people in this world might have to rely on President Trump. All USA got to do is withdraw from NATO and UN; and you shall see full impact of that all over the world. 😯 ... Including France ...
I disagree lots with thm, but there's no contradiction in his stance. He's just for making the best of a shite situation. something the hysterical left are having no input on whatsoever.
I love you too Joe!
But "disagree lots" really???? 😉
I always thought May a good politician but she is proving me wrong continually. Her handling of europe is so poor its laughable. Its almost as if she wants us to fail in leaving so we end up staying. She has got so many things so wrong its no longer funny
The lack of specifics is telling. I always thought she was a disappointing politician with a porr track record on delivery. However, considering she doesn't believe in Brexshit, her performance is remarkable (so far). She will trigger A50 on time despite a largely pre-remain HoC and HoL, she has laid out her plans clearly (for those who can be bothered to read) and we know where we start (between CU and FTA) and where the likely compromises are. The early dynamics with Barnier and Merkel are positive.
Meanwhile Labour are lost, the SNP still talk illogical shite and only the LDems show some conviction. Who are the good politicians????
We "May" even get a elusive win:win from a lose:lose situation.
Keep on it old girl - you are doing much better than expected and better than you track record would suggest. Bravo!
teamhurtmore - Member
... only the LDems show some conviction.
Whaaaatt! That shouty shouty yelling young chap? 😆
steady on there big boy! 😆teamhurtmore - MemberI love you too Joe!
Keep on it old girl - you are doing much better than expected and better than you track record would suggest. Bravo!
You seriously need to stop drinking.
I always thought she was a disappointing politician with a porr track record on delivery. However, considering she doesn't believe in Brexshit, her performance is remarkable (so far). She will trigger A50 on time despite a largely pre-remain HoC and HoL, she has laid out her plans clearly (for those who can be bothered to read) and we know where we start (between CU and FTA) and where the likely compromises are.
So basically she is showing strong leadership.
So did Lord Cardigan, still didn't turn out well.
If as Jamba says Trump keeps trying to marginalise Germany, there'll suddenly be an EU Pacific and/or EU/China trade deal done that specifically marginalises the States. And Trump won't have to work too hard on his isolationist policies then.
I wonder where we'd be best to be then.
The 20th century was characterised by the rise of Russia and the US. Perhaps the 21st will be characterised by their decline. It's certainly starting to feel like geopolitics is changing and we just backed the wrong horse.
I disagree lots with thm, but there's no contradiction in his stance. He's just for making the best of a shite situation. something the hysterical left are having no input on whatsoever.
Making the best of a bad situation would be strongly advocating that the result of this advisory referendum, with no more legal weight than a Big Brither vote, should be debated strongly in parliament to win a majority for ignoring its results, and changing the law so that such a dishonest and deceitful campaign would be highly illegal in future.
Who else can build nuke plant(s)?
Well, not us any more, hence why we're getting the French to do it. Or we were...
I hear the Russians have a design that's only blown up once.
The Americans are working on a 10 - 50 MW modular design I think.
But they have been for quite some time.
Reactors - Westinghouse or the French being the only 2 with an approved design from memory. You can't build one that isn't an approved design so no point trying.
And on the momentus state visit the alternative prespective
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/27/never-mind-the-optics-theresa-mays-us-dash-was-mortifying
ignoring its results
Enough said. What an argument?? 😯
and changing the law so that such a dishonest and deceitful campaign would be highly illegal in fun
You had better give the SNP plenty of advance but warning. That's a paradigm shift for them
The euratom point gbeing that we cannot build reactors while we are not in euroatom ( or at least one with french input) so unless agreement is reached with euratom all work on hinkley will have to stop.
Did somone say "she has laid out her plans clearly" (May) - the levels of delusion go up and up. She clearly has no proper plan - just a wish list that included the common delusions of the leavers.
oldman can you help me out with this ?
Jamba I wonder if you can see the irony
Head...,sand
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TJ the key thing about May is, like any politician, you've only to appeal to your voters. And they are the ones that keep you in power.
So this is her entire strategy. And a plan? That's been made up on the hoof, which is why she appealed the court case (gave breathing space).
And is their approach the right one, it's the only one - although personally I believe leaving is crackers and will cripple the UK for at least a generation.
Took me a while to see "Brexit" on the beast's jacket. My first assumption was Trump.
She is taking a hell of a gamble with our futures.
On Euratom - this looks like a complete lack of understanding by the press. The only new development they are involved in is with the ITER project which, if we leave, really will be the final nail on our nuclear industry. This is madness, for the money we are contributing we are getting a complete bargain on crowdsourcing a workable fusion reactor.
As for what is allowed to he built here, the Westinghouse PWR GDA even being valid after 30odd years is unlikely. We have a GDA for the EPR, ABWR should have been completed last year and the AP1000 will be done shortly. As far as I know the Euratom agreement has nothing to do with export controls so don't understand why people think it would have any bearing on this generation of new build.
Trump keeps trying to marginalise Germany, there'll suddenly be an EU Pacific and/or EU/China trade deal done that specifically marginalises the States
Can see this happening. As Trump gets more and more deluded and power crazed and manages to annoy all other countries he won't have anyone left who wants to touch him and the rest of the world will get on with it together.
I think this is nearer the mark...
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igm what's clear is that the EU aren't going to do anything quickly, it's a protectionist trade block which sustained itself via expansion. That's been dealt a shocking blow. The EU will do nothing to upset Trump as they well know the US holds all the cards in terms of financial muscle and the eurozone is bust.
IMO the EU is going to try and sit tight and hold on till 2020 in the hope Trump is a one term President. It's going to get more internally focused.
Keep on it old girl - you are doing much better than expected and better than you track record would suggest. Bravo!
Yep - plenty more dictators still left to grovel before. Who's next?
Think of how much we can sell to North Korea! A beautiful future awaits.
This is a first, but I think I'm with chewkw 😆 , but why would the EU do a deal with China? Essentially allowing them to dump all of their cheap stuff, en masse even more than they already can, on Europe?igm - Member
If as Jamba says Trump keeps trying to marginalise Germany, there'll suddenly be an EU Pacific and/or EU/China trade deal done that specifically marginalises the States
Seems a bit mental to allow that via free trade agreements?
What do the Europeans have that the Chinese want to buy?
Seems to me that is only ever going to be a one sided deal.
igm - Member
If as Jamba says Trump keeps trying to marginalise Germany, there'll suddenly be an EU Pacific and/or EU/China trade deal done that specifically marginalises the States.
EU can have free trade with China if they want and turn themselves into service economic. Might as well outsource their car industry to China since China can learn that overnight, EU can do all the designing work etc ... 😆
That will suit everyone nicely.And Trump won't have to work too hard on his isolationist policies then.
UK can deal with the one they wish and refuse the one they don't without having EU bureaucrats to tell them what can or cannot.I wonder where we'd be best to be then.
20the century is the time for adjustment, 21st century will continue to realise that but life will be much better as everyone will keep to themselves.The 20th century was characterised by the rise of Russia and the US. Perhaps the 21st will be characterised by their decline. It's certainly starting to feel like geopolitics is changing and we just backed the wrong horse.
Which dictators has she grovelled to so far?
teamhurtmore - Member
Which dictators has she grovelled to so far?
Actually dictators are much easier to deal with since she only needs to deal with one person.
Is Erdogan a dictator?
That discussion could go on for days…
Not in Turkey though 😉
What do the Chinese want? You mean besides luxury goods (cars, watches etc.), intellectual property (reactor designs, other tech), export licences (again, reactors etc.). Not much I suppose...
So since Theresa has no plan, we could imagine what one might look like hypothetically:
Lets start with an overall vision, err.......[b]We will leave the European Union (giving up 'membership' of the single market in the process)?[/b]
Then, how about a tighter definition of strategic focus, err....[b]We will negotiate a bespoke deal to ensure "access to" the single market rather than adopt one of the pre-exisiting frameworks?[/b]
What might this look like (hypothetically), err....[b]somewhere between access via the CU and via a FTA?[/b]
What is the timetable, err....[b]how about serve notice by 3/17, complete negotiations by 3/19, agree transition period (tbc) to allow for successful implementation?[/b]
Starting red lines, err: [b]FoM and jurisdiction of ECJ for starters?[/b]
Other guidelines for negotiations, err....[b]12 a good round number again for starters? [/b]
I wonder what a plan might also smell and sound like?
"Quack, quack"
since China can learn that overnight
A first for me too (agreeing with chewkw that is).
Apart from fast learners, China is prepared to invest heavily in its manufacturing. Anyone who dismisses China as a manufacturer of cheap, low cost copies these days is an idiot.
I'm beginning to think that all of the economic and social arguments: the impending collapse of the Euro, the golden vista of better trade deals elsewhere, the relative stagnation of the european economy, the damaging effects of freedom of movement......
.....are really just clever ruses to get us out of the ECJ. That there's nothing else planned, that this is the entirety of the planning needed as nothing else matters. While we're all sitting here debating the relative merits of one trade deal over another, wasting our time, the government gets on with what its really after.
Cool huh?
^^^^^^^ Dunno I have a feeling that it's grab personal opportunity and run with it, I think thru personal wealth and connection the people deciding what's good for 'us' aren't going to suffer and regardless of how it goes will do just nicely.
I Would like to table amendment to the bill anyway that anyonethat uses the phrase 'The will of the people' is transported to America and put to work on the wall for life 🙂
Starting red lines, err:[b] FoM and jurisdiction of ECJ for starters?[/b]
Yup, these have been May's red lines all along, from before the Referendum, and severely limit the deal that we can achieve. Why should the whole country get a worse deal because of May's personal red lines? They weren't in the Referendum. They weren't in her party's manifesto. Her party wasn't elected to power with her and her red lines leading it. Where is the democratic accountability? Where is her mandate to restrict our futures in this way?
The fact that she has to stress these red lines is a reminder there is a different way to Leave the EU. A way that keeps closer trading arrangements, and keeps better opportunities for companies and citizens a like, if those (her) red lines are removed before negotiations get under way.
Lots of Tory MPs are worried about this as well, even some who voted to Leave. One Leave voting MP has already resigned because of the path May is heading. It is why she is keeping proper scrutiny away from parliament. She has no fear about the "opposition", it is Tory MPs who don't share her red lines that she is afraid of.
Relax. They are the starting point. I almost wrote pink lines. Why? Because the safest bet of all it that there will be compromises on both sides.
Remember this is a NEGOTIATION
Do you think May will now budge on either of those issues?
thm, how are we (to be clear, the whole electorate) supposed to influence these negotiations? We elected a conservative govt that promised to keep us in the single market, and now they've apparently changed their mind along with their leader. How is this democratic?
i think its the bit where we all voted and the majority said leave bit that makes it the government of the people / democratic.
What I think is undemocratic is the way they /she has drawn up some lines in the sand [ immigration for example] as if it was actually a vote on this
People voted leave for a myriad of reasons from save the NHS, regain control, stop immigration, dislike of Europe there is no clear mandate to any approach and that is why she will always get criticism whatever she does- with the usual sniping from anti tory eu lovers.
Do you think May will now budge on either of those issues?
Well I suppose if there is going to be negotiation there has to be movement. Perhaps she has something else to go soft on in order to retain these two. Or not.
This is a good old fashioned kick in the bollix. From the likely American Ambasador to the EU. I'm clearly far too soft on Junker and the EU, just brilliant. BBC's This Week
Andrew Neill. “I mean you’re clearly not a great fan of Brussels or these bureaucrats like [European Commission President] Juncker,”
Prof Malloch. “Well, I had in a previous career a diplomatic post where I helped to bring down the Soviet Union, so maybe there’s another union that needs a little taming,”
"What do you think of Mr Junker ?"
"Well Mr Junker was I think a very adequate Mayor of some city in Luxembourg, maybe he should go back there and that again"
“He [President Trump] doesn’t like an organisation that is supranational, that is unelected, where the bureaucrats run amok, and is not frankly a proper democracy,” Prof. Malloch said.
Nige's Twitter has the clip. Priceless. 😀 😀 😀
https://mobile.twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/824996652637237248
This Week Facebook, short general piece inc referemce to France, Germany and Luxembourg amongst other having to pay their way in NATO. Classic Cadillac on London's streets
Programme link on iPlayer
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b08c38fy/this-week-26012017
So desperate to see the EU fail you are cheering on one of Trumps swamp things
Classy!
And another one. the idiots in charge want to leave the European medicines agency thus increasing costs to get new drugs approved in the UK and delaying their implementation
Its currently based in London but of course it will have to move elsewhere. HUnt wants us to leave the organisation.
Andrew Neill? That well known bastion of sensibility?
Kimber the EU is doing just fine in failing of it's own accord. It needs to go back to an Economic Community amd ditch the political side totally.
"HUnt wants us to leave the organisation."
Cite!
Mind you , the way T May is acting with Trump , I think the EU is better off without the UK .
The UK would certainly be better off without May...
obviously .
Kelvin, yes, I would bet the house in it. I might have said this before, it's a negotiation.
Cpn, it's frankly absurd for the public to think that they should or even that they are able to influence the nuances of the negotiations. These will take place between a very, very small number of people accompanied by a wider show for the public that will be there simply to feed the media. Both sides will also employ sophisticate strategic communications teams to manipulate the message. So the public have done their bit - they have committed us to a bad move. The experts will now take over to limit the damage.
The government wanted us to remain in the single market, trrue. What they committed to, however, was to hold a referendum on the issue and to execute whateve result was delivered. This is what they are doing as promised. For some, the burden of following this promise is clearly too much to bear. We expect this from Scottish nats, but others should know better.
Trump has already used and cast aside May, he shafted her as she flew to meet Erdogan with his Muslim ban.
You can watch trump dismiss her here
As May tours the world looking to pick up any scraps she can from whatever the world's finest and most progressive 😉 leaders will toss her way, I wonder if the poisoned chalice of Brexit is starting to taste rather bitter?
Prof Brian Cox on leaving euratom
"I'm trying to use temperate language, so here goes: Terrifically stupid, utterly shitheaded, myopically parochial idiocy. Pointless damage"
*applauds*
The UK would certainly be better off without May
Not what the opinion polls say
TJ we just signed up to European patents office, no reason a relationship with euratom isn't possible as it remains a seperate Treaty (just managed by the EU). I'll wager you our Nuclear programme will carry on just fine. Fairly amusing to see an anti-Trident supporter wanting to make Nuclear power stations easier to build. Although I imagine all the Remainer anti-nukes are a bit conflicted as the slower things go the better for them, they must be hoping it falls apart.
@kimbers really 😯 he was making a joke, I watched the whole press conference he could not have been more "on script" he read his statement word for word. Like it or not he's the "leader of the free world" and he's pro UK, pro-Brexit and anti-EU ... all very good things for the UK right now
kimbers - Member
You can watch trump dismiss her hereI guess you aren't even aware your blinkers seriously skew your judgement? Dismiss? 😆
Fairly amusing to see an anti-Trident supporter wanting to make Nuclear power stations easier to build
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im off to bed its got silly in here!
Prof Brian Cox on leaving euratom
"I'm trying to use temperate language, so here goes: Terrifically stupid, utterly shitheaded, myopically parochial idiocy. Pointless damage"
Prof Brian Cox on Brexit:
[i]"Things can only get better, Can only get better if we see it through"[/i]
Jamba - really? You can't see the difference between making electricity and killing people? Are you sure?
Fairly amusing to see an anti-Trident supporter wanting to make Nuclear power stations easier to build.
Ah well. I learn something new about people every day.
Jamba - I am laughing at the stupidity of you and those who think like you and pointing out the utterly ridiculous idiocy of the leavers actions - talk about shooting yourself in the foot. Even if youaccept a need to leave the EU there is no need at all to leave either euratom or EMA but the deluded leavers are going to do both. Why ? what possible advantage could leaving either have?
Jamba - I am laughing at the stupidity of you and those who think like you and pointing out the utterly ridiculous idiocy of the leavers actions -
Dont worry he is still laughing cause he won, he has no idea what he had won but its OK he won....
The eu is able to stand equal with the US and go toe to toe with them on negotiation, that is what Trump hates, that is what he is afraid of. The eu has a great place in the modern world.
jambalaya - MemberFairly amusing to see an anti-Trident supporter wanting to make Nuclear power stations easier to build.
I'm sure you do have a reason for finding that amusing... but I'm also sure it's completely stupid.
"The eu is able to stand equal with the US and go toe to toe with them on negotiation that is what Trump hates"
I thought a massive issue Trump feels personally strongly about and was elected on was unequal trade deals. Where they do a deal with an economic weakling and then end up effectively exporting jobs to that place.
That wouldn't be an economic weakling then really would it. By definition.
"That wouldn't be an economic weakling then really would it. By definition."
Good point, in one sense being a piss poor low wage economy gives you immense strength, but whether you call Mexico weak or strong Trump doesn't want deals with those kind of places, he wants deals with fairly equal nations. Which was my point.
Sounds great on paper doesn't it, like the way Trump relies heavily on imported goods for his own businesses. Mexico is (well he thought it was) a soft target. As the Germans pointed out we don't buy your cars because hey are crap.
He will find it hard to deliver a killer deal for the US with the eu, he has nothing really to offer. The eu won't move on food etc. Tech is easy, Europe has great car production, access to natural resources etc. then he will start and get a hard time over Russia and Nato.
Mike, why wouldn't Jambas be laughing, especially when he sees the kind of contribuition (sic) that you quoted?
Interesting.
Someone once built a Keynesian economic model out of plumbing.
I was wondering this morning if you could build a 4 freedoms style trade model out of simple electrical components - potential difference for affluence , resistance for barriers / tariffs, current gives you the flow of people, goods etc, with inductors and capacitors for delays and saturation effects.
I'm not sure if you can (though my suspicion is yes it's possible) but just thinking about it that way starts to through a bit of light in rich / poor trade deals,why the EU is probably a good idea, and migrant flows around the world.
It is just a different way of describing the same maths I suspect.
PS might need to be an AC model to do exchange rates, but that might prevent the proper modelling of education on the economy.
Not really a Kenynsian model, rather a brilliant model (LSE IIRC) for explaining flows in an economy and what happens when you turn of valves but increase the pressure eg, the folly that is the €
The model would be better suited for explains the EZ problem where surpluses are not recycled properly. They lead to a build up of pressure without the appropriate release valves being open. Hence in the end the pipes burst.
Trouble with all models (especially economic models) is that they are basically shit. Yes they can describe events on a macro level, things like supply and demand etc, but will always fail to incorporate micro effects and feedback loops which are extremely important in the longer term. Things like social upheaval, environmental degradation, even climate change and how that effects the model.
Probably the most complex models in use today are to predict the weather and even they can only accurately forecast a day or so at most before some unforeseen factor causes the model to fail
Except in this case the model was all about feedback loops. So your argument falls at the first hurdle.
Yeah but I bet they didn't include them all, or the feedback loops on the feedback loops etc.... 🙂
Of course not, they are models 😉
You are criticising models because they are models which seems a bit odd to me.
Thank you THM. You have refreshed this engineer's vague recollection.
Anyway I suspect if you got a decent power systems load flow modeller and a decent economist together you could do something even better.
You'll need to find a decent economist first!!