"interconnectedness of supply lines" quote is nonsense of course
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you know that saying about koolaid? wow.
what was it about the EU that stopped us, for example, 'training our own people'...?
(hint: the answer is 'nothing at all' - we are crap at skills training now, and there's nothing coming from our glorious leaders that gives me any confidence about the future)
Jamba - no answer to the post I made showing the statement you made about who actually pays into the EU being completely wrong?
Jamba - no answer to the post I made showing the statement you made about who actually pays into the EU being completely wrong?
I wouldn't hold your breath TJ..
Or his thoughts on general election?
I wouldn't hold your breath TJ..
Go on TJ give it a try 😉
TJ you made your point, I am not going to crawl back to the article I read ages ago which showed the cumulative payments / receipts back over 10 years. Yes there have been in more recent times in individual years when countries have made a net contribution but its the cumulative total I was referring to. It's the UK and Germany who pay the bills and fund the rest. We have a big trade deficit and Germany have a big trade surplus, budget contributions make no sense to me.
@cchris - we have discussed a general election at length here. There won't be one. There is no basis for one. The Government cannot call one as we have fixed term parliaments. The opposition cannot force one as the Tories have a majority and the party sees no need for one even consider the likely result would annihilate Labour. Calling for a General Election is clutching at straws from Remainers.
@awhiles - there is no incentive for business to provide training or even identify skills gaps if they have a ready supply of cheap qualified Labour from abroad. There is a tax issue here too, you can hire 3 EU nationals for 4 months each and pay them £10k and UK get's zero tax. This could be a £30k job for a UK citizen.
Go on - admit you were wrong. Payments don't change that much year by year. You really should do some basic fact checking before making outrageous statements that are demonstrably untrue
Per head of population the UK is one of the smaller net contributors.
So we have a TJ versus Jambas competition to see who (if either) are telling the biggest porkies!
Melton Mowbary Porkies mind, none of this foreign muck, opps make that a bridie, opps,....oh forget it
Oh boo hoo.
aracer, i took this as a signal that mature debate had indeed been suspended 😉
Tea and scones anyone? The more we consume, the more this great nations economy marches on to economic nirvana
there is no incentive for business to provide training or even identify skills gaps if they have a ready supply of cheap qualified Labour from abroad. There is a tax issue here too, you can hire 3 EU nationals for 4 months each and pay them £10k and UK get's zero tax. This could be a £30k job for a UK citizen.
And how are these people getting qualified abroad? The training costs for businesses in other EU countries must be astronomical if their qualified staff up sticks and leave for the UK, it seems incredible that businesses could survive under such conditions, it is almost as if it was a ridiculous fallacy.
I am answering for myself only so my answer is:zippykona - Member
Chewk and or Jamba..what do you personally expect to get from Brexit? Will you know when you finally have it?
Happiness, joy and good tidings for all to see off the mega bureaucrats that have been trying it on since 1973.
For me it is the principle of not having the EU bureaucrats have a say at all. The EU bureaucrats should simply shut up and stay out of others affairs. As for whether the law is similar or not that is a non-issue. We can add or delete whatever laws we like or dislike. Simple. (obviously, we have our democratic process)If it's not having laws from Brussels can you tell me how they differ from laws from Westminster.
My advice is let it go. Let go that feeling of yours of wanting to go back to EU, then the positive will come once you move on to see the light.We are all feeling the negative aspects of voting out when will the positives begin?
You have to remember many who voted out had to endure for 43 years and for some who were older until the end of the life. Now, they can be happy again.
The positives start the moment you let go. Let go of the hate. Let it be and move on.Could you also please let me know when the positives start.
Methinks the story has been rather overblown - as usual the text bears little relation to the headline. But bravo kimbers nonetheless - good lunchtime reading!
The positives start the moment you let go. Let go of the hate. Let it be and move on.
🙄
The way you bang on you sound like you're part of a cult....
Do you ever consider that adopting this particular style may well be working against you??
Big business was mostly pro-EU, low wages caused by freedom of movement outweighs everything else.
No it doesn't. There is no evidence that FoM has a signifanct impact on wages. It doesn't matter how many times this lie is repeated, it won't become true.
Lets see what the CBI inks about the best approach to trade deals
mrlebowski - Member
The positives start the moment you let go. Let go of the hate. Let it be and move on.The way you bang on you sound like you're part of a cult....
Do you ever consider that adopting this particular style may well be working against you??
Not trying to be cult like to be honest. Just advice.
The longer he hangs on to that feeling the more it will consume him from within, it's better to let it go and start new like everyone else.
Happiness, joy and good tidings for all to see off the mega bureaucrats that have been trying it on since 1973.
Fortunately there are no petty/mega bureaucrats in the UK, or any of the shiny new countries who will be our sole trading partners. No sir!
Supply chain reality (I use to work in the aluminium industry).
Jamaica - mine bauxite
Ship - to Eire
Eire - turn bauxite into alumina
Ship - to Blyth, UK
Train - to Lynemouth Smelter, Tyne&Wear
Lynemouth - turn alumina into aluminium 20t slabs
Train - to Rogerstone Rolling Mill, South Wales
Rogerstone - roll down into coiled sheet
Lorry - to Newport docks
Ship - to Rotterdam, NL
Barge - to Dortmund, D
Train - to Ludenscheid, D
Ludenscheid - roll down further
Train - to Rorschach, CH
Rorschach - roll down further and cut into sheet
Train - to Ludenscheid, D
Ludenscheid - embossed and printed, then pressed out and formed
And the product? Dog/Cat food tins, expensive brand.
oldnpastit - Member
Happiness, joy and good tidings for all to see off the mega bureaucrats that have been trying it on since 1973.
Fortunately there are no petty/mega bureaucrats in the UK, or any of the shiny new countries who will be our sole trading partners. No sir!
The EU ones are mega-er while the UK ones are well known they are of no comparison to those EU ones. If we do not put a nail to their EU heads now we would have bigger disasters to come.
gummikuh - Member
http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2016/10/18/brexit-death-of-british-business/
A very informative if depressing read 🙁
Have more tea.
The thing that PA graphic above doesn't show is [i]why[/i]the component is exported to Germany for heat treatment.
To draw any meaningful conclusion we'd need to know if Delphi export to Germany then re-import because there's no capability in the UK to get it done here, to help with overhead recoveries at a Delphi plant in Germany, to book profit on the German P&L after most of the value has been added / to avoid doing that in the UK. Etc etc.
The PA analysis also misses that UK sourced steel is now / or shortly will be cheaper than imported steel so the sourcing decision on raw materials and the answers to "why" may significantly change the conclusion we reach. It's also worth saying there's a good chance Delphi's supply chains aren't optimised if most of the end product is made in the UK but they are mucking about with 1000 mile freight movements on work in progress.
just5minutes - MemberThe thing that PA graphic above doesn't show is whythe component is exported to Germany for heat treatment.
because maybe the heat-treatment of fuel-injectors is a specialised business?
Chewk .List me a physical thing.
The physical thing for me is seeing if we can absorb all the price increases in my shop.
If the prices were going down I might say you've got a point.
You don't.
No it doesn't. There is no evidence that FoM has a signifanct impact on wages. It doesn't matter how many times this lie is repeated, it won't become true
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37577620
Bbc news article states that freedom.of movement does negatively affect wages.
because maybe the heat-treatment of fuel-injectors is a specialised business?
We make 1.6m+ vehicles a year in the UK. Presumably that's enough volume to warrant heat treating here or building the capability to do so rather than trucking up to 1m+ components to Germany and back? Given the UK's leading position in high strength / fatigue resistant alloys and steels with the likes of Rolls Royce it's unlikely to just be a skills issue.
No it doesn't. There is no evidence that FoM has a signifanct impact on wages. It doesn't matter how many times this lie is repeated, it won't become true
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37577620Bbc news article states that freedom.of movement does negatively affect wages.
It says that wages may be suppressed by 1.88% for every 10% increase in immigrant labour into a sector. Immigrant labout has gone up 7.2% in 19 years. So it seems the effect of migrant labour is minimal at most but may vary from sector to sector with unskilled jobs being worst hit. And I thinkit is talking about all migrant labour not just EU labour.
Crtically it also says:
The impact of immigration is dwarfed by the effect of the strength of the economy and its growth.
So reading between the lines chucking out immigrants and having the economy tank is going to do more to damage wages than letting non-UK nationals stay.
plenty more detail here
https://www.ft.com/content/c397f174-9205-11e6-a72e-b428cb934b78
Two-thirds of the £4bn of motor components that are exported from the UK go to the EU, while the vast majority of materials that go into British-built cars are imported.If we faced tariffs, we would need to make the supply chain shorter and more integrated, or would need to take the assembly out of the UK
Supplier
Consultancy Vendigital estimates that, of the £15bn-worth of materials used in UK cars, some £12bn comes from overseas.Several of the component companies said that they were unable to relocate full production to the UK because there was not enough scale to make them economically viable.
just5minutes - MemberWe make 1.6m+ vehicles a year in the UK. Presumably that's enough volume to warrant heat treating here or building the capability to do so rather than trucking up to 1m+ components to Germany and back? Given the UK's leading position in high strength / fatigue resistant alloys and steels with the likes of Rolls Royce it's unlikely to just be a skills issue.
it's an example, presented to explain that the movement of goods is sometimes complicated.
if you start critiquing the example, you've missed the point...
On chewkw's bureaucrats, I bet we add more at Westminster than our share of the EU ones was.
Shackleton - nail, head.
A lot of those Brexiters who voted to quit Europe because they felt badly done to are about to find out what badly done to really means. Sad really.
If we do not [b]put a nail to their EU heads[/b] now we would have bigger disasters to come.
EDIT: removed my response, as this speaks for itself really.
zippykona - Member
Chewk .List me a physical thing.
The physical thing for me is seeing if we can absorb all the price increases in my shop.
If the prices were going down I might say you've got a point.
You don't.
After 43 years inside EU even the light at the tunnel means nothing because we are so accustom to darkness we think it is a the norm.
You are asking for comparison that is not even comparable because there is none after 43 years in EU. Give it 10 years before you start making comparison will you. Give it time just like you have been given 43 years previously.
We are setting the precedent now as we progress so by trying to compare to the past 43 years is illogical.
Actually the opposite is true. i.e. feeling wise we are happy, well at least I am over the moon. EU can do as they wish in EU.igm - Member
Shackleton - nail, head.A lot of those Brexiters who voted to quit Europe because they felt badly done to are about to find out what badly done to really means. Sad really.
[i]A very informative if depressing read [/i]
Agreed, and that is BEFORE you even consider any Brexit impact (positive or negative).
gummikuh - Member
http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2016/10/18/brexit-death-of-british-business/
Yes, but no but.... It is all the fault of the EU, because the newspapers and governments have always blamed them (and it must be accepted at face value).
Due to the [b]overwhelming[/b]ly small majority of the learned electorate voting to leave the EU based upon sound political, social and economic thinking, we [b]must[/b] now cast off the, er, shackles (and large benefits), of our EU masters, er, comrades (in a right wing kind of way) and get behind our glorious, working-class warrior EU leave-favouring (rather than the majority of MPs and educated people who would prefer to remain) Tory leaders.
Chewk what difference does it make if a law is passed by someone in Brussels I didn't vote for or in Westminster by someone I didn't vote for?
The light at the end of the tunnel is me retiring to somewhere in the sun. That light is going out due to the pound being worth **** all and no doubt some tit for tat restriction on people moving around Europe.
I am simply sick of recessions, deranged Tory/Labour governments, banking disasters and Brexiteers willing suspension of disbelief. From starting work in 1979 I have endured at least 15 crap years to date and now there will be another 8 to 10? Years so 25 years of crap out of 50 years working.
feeling wise we are happy, well at least I am over the moon
Well, as long as those that take pleasure in the suffering of offers are happy, it's all going to be worthwhile.
Ha ha at Telegraph article. I did the government's exporting for SMEs course a few years ago. Even though this was aimed at encouraging export, one of the biggest takeaways was that you start with countries in which the business environment was stable. The most important thing being that you were going to get paid. Basically this meant Europe - with Japan and the US as the next steps. Although outside Europe you had to do a lot more compliance research and work. Also that you should have at least £10k you could afford to lose on market research and checking practical stages. For each market.
I struggle to see a realistic scenario in which SME food producers can stage a huge increase in exports beyond Europe and magic away the trade deficit.
kelvin - Member
feeling wise we are happy, well at least I am over the moon
Well, as long as those that take pleasure in the suffering of offers are happy, it's all going to be worthwhile.
"Voting out" has given a warm fuzzy feeling to quite a lot of people (not to mention encouraging the people with Xenophobic tendencies to express themselves) and their view that the innately superior UK (England) can "take back control" -of what, is not clear.
Actually leaving the EU may not maintain the warm, fuzzy feeling, and that might take a while and is a bit complicated anyway....
The nation (well, a small majority) voting out has given a distinctly unpleasant feeling to a lot of other people.
well at least I am over the moon
Strange, I'd never have guessed.
Doesn't mean you don't have a nasty shock coming though. Or maybe you won't.
But I love your suggestion. Wait for the trade deals - say 5 years - then wait for them to take effect - say 10 years.
Or in other words condemn an entire working generation as an experiment to find out how much worse off we'll be outside a large free market.
Mad.
Well these responses are just typical of the defeatist attitudes we've come to expect from traitorous bremoaners like you lot. get off your ar53s and sell some scones to Tajikistan!!!
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feeling wise we are happy, well at least I am over the moon
Well as long as you're OK.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/mps-could-block-brexit-deal-no-10-admits-a7368561.html
