Even if the current EU is not functioning well, that does absolutely NOT mean that the idea of greater co-operation is a bad one. Simply walking out is not the solution.
Hmm, I seem to recall that we tried that, and the new offer that was negotiated was put to the people, who rejected it and decided that in fact walking away [b]was[/b] the solution
If you're basing the validity of a solution on a popular vote where most people weren't voting because of that problem, and ignoring all those who have since changed their minds, then yes that does make it the solution.
I seem to recall that we tried that
Not very bloody hard though! And we didn't try it with a referendum result in our pockets either.
And EVEN THEN simply going for hard brexit is walking away.
And as for the people deciding on the solution - hah. I'm not even remotely qualified to decide how to solve the problems of the EU, and I pay attention. What makes you think the public are qualified?
So MP's are going to get to vote on the post-brexit deal, once it's been agreed with the EU.
Yea, right... Pointless.
Pointless indeed. By the time of any vote the A50 timeline would not allow further negotiations anyway. So if MPs voted down any deal it would guaranty ultra-hard Brexit as that's the only other option
@molgrips we have been trying for decades to reform the EU but it just keeps rolling along towards the superstate. The EU refused to budge as they never believed we'd vote Leave
Exactly Jamby, see my comparison with driving increasingly faster down the 1 way street then add in the classic
[img] 
[/img]
Sign the A50 then let the Remain MPs argue until their face turn blue.
[quote="jambalaya"]
Over last 10 years the UK and Germany are the only countries to make net positive contributions to the EU, ...........
simply wrong. All these countries are net contributors
France, Italy, Germany, UK, netherlands Sweden Denmark ~Austria finland and others depending on source and accounting methods mainly based around admin costs and most of these pay more per person than the UK
slight differences between the two sources - can't be bothered to fact chack any more, maybe different years
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8036097.stm#start
In the US at the moment and not seeing the joy of Brexit.
Looking at cost of living here makes me wonder where the 'the pound was over valued' came from. At $1.20 back home looks exceedingly cheap. At $1.50 stuff in the UK still looks very good value.
Obviously my holiday spending money is not going very far. But also wondering how much this is going to benefit exports if they were already competitive. if we don't make stuff that people want it doesn't matter how cheap it is.
Nope this isn't a daily mash article
Andrea'2short planks' Loathsome has come up with a genius I idea to save or economy
Lucky the UK Grows lots of those ingredients.
Andrea Leadsom 😯
What next, a giant thermomoeter on parlaiment square with "Save the [s]Church Roof[/s] Entire Country" scrawled on it?
From the article
Ian Wright, Director General of the Food and Drink Federation, said: “We are supporting the Government’s export drive with an ambition to grow branded food and drink exports by a third by 2020 to £6 billion. “Export growth is hugely important to our sector. We hope that the International Action Plan for Food and Drink will open more channels and provide direct support to new and existing food and drink exporters.”
jesus wept.
we might as well give up.
Clearly, we no longer have any interest in useless things like science, or high-value manufacturing. Our only option is to turn the entire country in a ****ing little-england theme-park.
I'm confused, I thought we were all going to be eating British produce instead of exporting it once we crashed out of the single market?
Can someone explain to me why we need to be out of the EU to 'exploit' the Jam&Biscuits market, as it is occurring already.
[I]Andrea Leadsom, the Environment Secretary said: “With over £10 billion worth of food and drink sold overseas in the last seven months and exports up almost six per cent compared to 2015, there is no doubt we are open for business and ready to trade.[/I]
I wonder how much of that 10Bn is to the E.U.
Pointless indeed. By the time of any vote the A50 timeline would not allow further negotiations anyway.
Which is exactly why parliament should be allowed a vote [b]before[/b] A50 is triggered (exactly as the quoted government policy said that they must).
But to be honest I'm not to bothered about that because there is no way they'd dare to vote against actually leaving.
Far more importantly they should be allowed oversight and voting on the terms of our departure and the deals that are to be made. I can't see any reason for the government to be given a free hand here. The "people's mandate" only says that we want to leave, it gives no specifics about what Brexit actually looks like and it shouldn't be left to a few ministers to decide behind closed doors.
Before you poo poo that, bear in mind that those ministers could well decide on a "Brexit" that you don't want either (i.e. Norway model). They need to make their cases to parliament.
having done a bit of negotiation work the worst thing we could do is lay out what our position is before A50 trigger, it would horribly weaken any position we have - not that I think we have much ground for anything bar a hard brexit if we put a line in the sand over immigrationWhich is exactly why parliament should be allowed a vote before A50 is triggered
Yeah they keep saying that. But May (and Jamba) also says that our position is clear: access to the single market without freedom of movement or forget it and we go to WTO.
If that is our hardline position then what's wrong with stating it?
True, but why then bother to negotiate ? Europe only has around 10% of exports to us and we have 45% to them - so we know we are going to get screwed
Personally I think it is all about managing expectations - they can turn round once we are screwed and say thats what we were after all along
Graham maybe May has already told them that face to face ? Yes agreed we could get an agreement I'm not happy with however all the calls for a vote on A50 are from Remainers trying to derail the process
[quote="jambalaya"] »
Over last 10 years the UK and Germany are the only countries to make net positive contributions to the EU, ...........
simply wrong. All these countries are net contributors
France, Italy, Germany, UK, Netherlands Sweden Denmark Austria Finland and others depending on source and accounting methods mainly based around admin costs and most of these pay more per person than the UK
slight differences between the two sources - can't be bothered to fact check any more, maybe different years
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8036097.stm#start
What is the real reason for this **** up?
Is it so that big business can rip up any workers rights they like to maximise their profits?
I really can't see anything in brexit that benefits anyone.
There must be an ulterior motive. Too much money is being lost,is Murdoch doing some sort of currency deal?
zippykona - MemberWhat is the real reason for this **** up?
Is it so that big business can rip up any workers rights they like to maximise their profits?
[s]nailed it.[/s]
edit: it's not just employment rights, don't forget the environmental and pollution legislation we'll be able to ignore.
I'm not happy with however all the calls for a vote on A50 are from Remainers trying to derail the process
If the boot was on the other foot I am willing to bet anything you'd be doing your damnedest to ensure you ended up with something palatable so don't start with any arguments about it being undemocratic or lacking patriotism!
Far more importantly they should be allowed oversight and voting on the terms of our departure and the deals that are to be made. I can't see any reason for the government to be given a free hand here. The "people's mandate" only says that we want to leave, it gives no specifics about what Brexit actually looks like and it shouldn't be left to a few ministers to decide behind closed doors.
Exactly.
Particularly when said Ministers have quite categorically proved them selves to be not much more than a bunch of shallow, self serving, ego driven individuals lacking in any moral fibre.
[quote=jambalaya ]I'm not happy with however all the calls for a vote on A50 are from Remainers trying to derail the process
Oh boo hoo.
all the calls for a vote on A50 are from Remainers trying to derail the process
You voted to Leave the EU because you felt it violated the sovereignty of the UK parliament.
So why are you now so keen to ignore the UK parliament?
This makes the points quite well:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/10/brexit-means-brexit-not-an-end-to-parliamentary-democracy-mps-mu/
Business did not want brexit, they will use the excuse to push rights and wages even further down, but that will not compensate for the damage done businesses will suffer far more.
Chewk and or Jamba..what do you personally expect to get from Brexit? Will you know when you finally have it?
If it's not having laws from Brussels can you tell me how they differ from laws from Westminster.
We are all feeling the negative aspects of voting out when will the positives begin?
Could you also please let me know when the positives start.
I can imagine the meeting where they came up with that genius Tea & Jam export idea
[b]May[/b]: We need to get a grip on this fast before we become a global laughing stock and the £ plunges further, what are our post Brexit Trade options?
[b]Civil Servant[/b]: Well erm, bit of a problem there
[b]Hammond[/b]: The city?
[b]Civil Servant[/b]: The big banks are all busy deciding on whether itll be Paris, Frankfurt or New York, loss of Passporting alone will cost us billions
[b]Leadsome[/b]: I had a succesful career in the city actually
[b]Hammond[/b]: thats lovely, any ideas what about manufacturing, automotives etc?
[b]Civil Servant[/b]: well its obvious without access to the single market Nissan & BMW will do a runner, Jaguar/Landrover too
[b]Fox[/b]: Dont be ridiculous Minis and Jags are a british institution, I buy a Jag a year on expenses, of course theyll want to stay here
[b]Civil Servant[/b]: well the interconnectedness of modern supply lines means that the low £ reduces the profitability of anyone who wants to stay here, add to that WTO tariffs and we'd have to pay them millions to consider staying.
[b]Hammond[/b]: what about the hi-tech- Aerospace, life sciences, the pencil stuff?
[b]Civil Srevant[/b]: While we currently lead the world in these fields, theyve already been shut out of many EU funding streams, there is already an exodus of european researchers the damage to collaborative networks that weve taken decades to build up will be irreversible. Many institutes are eyeing up Europe and the USA.
[b]May[/b]: Ungrateful citizens of nowhere!
[b]Hammond[/b]: OK what have got then the BRIC nations?
[b]Civil Servant[/b] Yes well fears of a slowdown in China are the biggest worry there, Russia is obviously off the cards, theyre burning effigies of Borris, and its not looking good for the rest.
[b]Davies[/b] Dont be so wet man, they will come running to us begging for favourable trade deals, we are the greatest nation on earth!
[b]Fox[/b]: yes what about something truly British?
[b]Leadsome[/b]: Tea & Scones?
[b]Fox[/b]: go on....
[b]Leadsome[/b]: well foreigners cant get enough of all our british exports
[b]Davies[/b]: Yes Tea, Jam, Lamb
[b]Fox[/b]: I like it, Let me speak to my man Ill arrange a trade delegation immediately - I keep suites at the finest hotels on hold accross Asia.
[b]Civil Servant[/b]: But erm... well Tea isnt produced here, WTO tarrifs would also hit that hard and the falling pound, jam is dependent on migrant fruit pickers from Europe and well lamb is rather seasonal and again, large import tar...
[b]Davies[/b]: shut up you whining remoaner! This is perfect, god Save the Queen!!
[b]Fox[/b] : Huzzah!
[b]Johnson[/b]: Huzzah!
[b]Leadsome[/b] : Gosh Im rather smart
[b]Johnson:[/b] We shall create a trading nation that will eclipse the heyday's of Alexandria, Constantinople and Carthage ! Ill whack out a release for the Telegraph immediately!
[b]Hammond[/b]: I cant be bothered typing up another resignation letter Theresa, ill just send the same one over again?
[b]May[/b]: yes, yes but if you quit Ill make you share an office with Gove
😆 kimbers. Chapeau (if that's not too foreign)
I wonder how much of that 10Bn is to the E.U.
Some figures here
[url= https://www.fdf.org.uk/exports/ukexports.aspx ]Food exports[/url]
Excellent.
Looks like Kimber account has been hijacked but Jambalaya.
Kimbers gets the prize for best post of the day!
The sooner these buggers are floating away in the "B Arc" with the hairdressers and telephone sanitisers the better.
Kimbers wins the internetz this week 😆
Kimbers - brilliant. At least I hope you made it up. I could easily believe that it wax a transcript....
So according to the papers discussed in cabinet leaving the EU will lead to a contraction in the UK economy of 4.5 ie a disastrous recession and to stand still in trade terms we would have to expand our exports to our 10 biggest trading partners outside the EU by 37%
Have you not heard that we have had enough of experts and that everything is going to be fine.
Just eat more biscuits with your British grown tea.
My Dell Rep has just called me, 10%-15% Price rises across the board from next week.
They're supposedly based in Bracknell, but their EU HQ is Ireland and our stuff comes from Poland for the most part. My Rep is based in Malaysia.
I might try bartering them with some Hobnobs - but where to send them?
Pretty much 10% on everything we buy for the shop.
I'm dreading how much our Belgian chocolates will be going up next year.
@kimbers 🙂 "interconnectedness of supply lines" quote is nonsense of course
Is it so that big business can rip up any workers rights they like to maximise their profits?
Big business was mostly pro-EU, low wages caused by freedom of movement outweighs everything else.
@zippy - no particular order, a quick list I am sure there is more. All of these ideal but will take a majority
Balanced and controlled immigration, significant uptick in skilled immigrants ability to identify skills and labour gaps and train our own people
Improved trade links with the dynamic and growing economies to the East
Government spending focused on UK priorities, ability to reduce budget deficit if we choose to.
Zero EU budget contribution
Strengthening of UK banks vs tight controls on sovereign assets and inter bank lending - eg no/very limited Greece, Italy, Spain, Portugal ..
Improved tax revenues by stamping out cross border abuse - Apple, Facebook, Google, Starbucks, ... all companies required to book all UK business and advertising via UK subsiduary
Rebuilding of UK fisheries
Support of UK farming and food production
Improved environmental testing of cars with introduction of uk specific tests. Focus on Hybrid technology with research arrangements with Japanese manufacturers - zero tariff deal ?
