Hi ho hi ho it's off to court we go ...
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/oct/13/court-case-battle-looms-over-brexit-legality-article-50
Interesting read for all you armchair constitutional lawyers
https://publiclawforeveryone.com/2016/09/30/the-governments-case-in-the-article-50-litigation-a-critique/
Your stupid vote it costing me money and stopping me sitting in the sun. What are you getting out of the deal? What benefits are you feeling today? You've split the country,led to a rise in racism and sunk the economy.
Thanks a **** million.
Satisfaction at your displeasure maybe? I didn't realise that we had to vote in line with what's best for you. If only you'd made that clear at the time.
It's corrupt, incompetant and bust
And the UK isn't?
Quite worried about what would happen if the legal challenge succeeds and parliament vote Brexit down.
Never thought I would fear political violence in this country.
One aspect that hasn't been picked up on (AFAIK), is the sudden "devaluing" of UK company earnings...
Over my working life more and more companies have been bought by ultimately US corporates. My own employer is a global company, but US HQ,ed and NYSE listed.
Our UK sales and revenues are reported in $US. Next year's targets are 20% tougher in dollar terms - or worth 20% less to our Corporate masters.
All the talk of manufacturing import / export costs and their impact on the economy - everyone's ignoring the reduced Post-Brexit service sector ($) earnings potential...
Mentioned that a few pages back in relation to what is the impact of a weaker £
Serious point as we saw with Unilver yesterday
There is a massive danger of over analysing all of this. The negotiations haven't even started and all this noise is (as one of the links above noted) merely harming our relationship with/ steeling the resolve of those we seek to trade with. It's self defeating.
Despite all the Independence Day BS, this is and has always been a massive complex task. Redwood is disingenuouos to suggest otherwise. Nobody has done this before and both sides are going to lose out. So not surprisingly, it's going to be anything but smooth. So expections need to be more realistic.
Laura K got in right on the news last night, these are merely the foothills. We have a whole mountain range to cross. So pace yourselves ladies and gentlemen!!!
+1 rkk01
I was reminded last week by an American company we deal with that while we may talk in GBP the targets are in dollars...
No quarter given and all that.
I certainly get the impression that a lot of brexit voters were thinking about what was best for themselves rather than the general good.I didn't realise that we had to vote in line with what's best for you. If only you'd made that clear at the time.
May should be more worried about the next financial crash. Inflationary pressures are starting to emerge (expecations now through 3%) and all the liquidity supplied by he BoE has got stuck in reserves not the economy plus the BoE needs to sterilise all the crapy bonds it holds. Mind your backs - history "May" repeat itself!!!
I certainly get the impression that a lot of brexit voters were thinking about what was best for themselves rather than the general good.
The overwhelming impression I get of them is that there wasn't an awful lot of thinking going on at all.
Never thought I would fear political violence in this country.
Not forgetting the IRA and Jo Cox
Thinking? That is being generous. Many things were suspended, that being one of them.
Normally I can walk away from a STW argument because the width of your handlebars does not affect me.
This on the other hand will make my life a whole lot worse. For what point?
Sheer bloody mindedness.
Free ? Free from what? The Tories are free to do whatever the **** they like. YOU will have no come back.
Someone shits on you from Westminster how does that differ to shit from Brussels?
Everyone I know that voted out did so for the £350 million and even though " I'm not racist but" a long diatribe about something that someone did in the papers who happened to be not from Europe anyway.
ARE SATISFIED? IS YOUR WORLD A BETTER PLACE?
I guess you have to be a millionaire that doesn't live here to answer yes.
Regardless of your vote - other than a small minority everyone in the UKs quality of life has and will deteriorate in the most simple terms that means
More expensive food
More expensive fuel/heat
More expensive holidays
More expensive consumer goods
Reduced wages in real terms
Increased redundancies in skilled business
Reduced future investment (EU and private sector/education)
Increased gov borrowing
Increased interest rates
Reduced possibly regionalised benefits (triple lock will go)
Shortage of willing low level labour for the service industry - thereby increasing costs in Hotels Restaurants NHS? Retail and so on
The reality is that most of the above will have the greatest impact on poor folks and young families.
The economic investment to stop he above is financially very difficult and risky to do and don't think the people who have money to invest in the UK are going to look at us as a viable opportunity - other than buy to let?
I have still yet to see from either gov or from anyone Brexiteers anywhere (including here) how we address the above in anew economic manner? And all the talk about Brexit at the moment is Article 50 and the terms of exit with NO discussion or suggestions of even the most basic post exit economic disaster recovery plan - well other than borrow a lot more money but even that facility will reduce and become more expensive.
There is data to suggest we have a 1970s or even 1030s type recession coming if controls are not deployed and Mark Carney who appears to be a business administrator at heart with little political involvement understands this better than most. If we go free trade post Brexit the pound is likley to become even more devalued great for exporters but on balance even exporters have to often buy raw materials in and use power etc so it's not straight forward.
We all need to remember the wide group of people negotiating this exit will not be that badly damaged by even a 1930s style set back. So unless you are a multi millionaire FTSE stock owning individual we all need to put aside our remain/leave views and try and salvage (and that is the reality) what we can and that includes ensuring there is a parliamentary vote on the exit terms- I for one have no desire to go down with the ship.
this hence why Gove was able to say we have had enough of experts as if facts were a liberal establishment elite conspiracy to trick them when the reality was they were sold some total BS but privately educated RW free marketers who neither know any "common folk" nor GAS about them or their livesThe overwhelming impression I get of them is that there wasn't an awful lot of thinking going on at all.
Tweet sums it up nicely
https://twitter.com/FetchezLaVache_/status/786313060713652224?s=09
Not generally a fan on Tesco's business practices but at least they have "called out"
Unilever for trying to up prices on British goods due to Brexit / £
I know what plannet are they living on? the pound hasn't fallen in value at all, project fear has reached new heights of ridiculousness Brexit will make us all better off, every patriotic Brexiteers knows this
The Unilever thing isn't what it appears to be as many of the products they've put prices up on are only made in the UK and with commodities that can be sourced here.
That said, Unilever has had a good run of supplying an increasing share of its UK sales from factories in Europe - the weak Euro rate has helped in that regard for many years. On the high volume goods that it exports to the UK it will now have a choice of absorbing some of the extra cost (it did this on Euro sales for years by using higher prices in the UK to offset costs in Europe) or invest more in the UK / making stuff here.
I suspect that another dynamic in the Unilever / Tesco spat is that Drastic Dave / Tesco CEO used to be a regional President in Unilever - so he knows how they negotiate (and vice versa) so is simply changing the rules of negotiation by cutting off their sales altogether. What will likely happen is that Unilever renegotiate pricing to gain access to shelfspace and that Tesco offer more own brand alternatives to Branded products. Just like the discounters have already done.
There's also an upside from this - as a UK listed company Unilever is likely to see earnings rise 20-30% over the next year - this is reflected by the 60% rise in share price since the brexit vote. That will translate into a £b or so additional corporation tax receipts for the Treasury.
[quote=Klunk ]You get the feeling the easiest/sensible way out of all of this for the Government is another referendum. Keep asking the question till you get the answer that you can live with.
Or at least a referendum with a clearer question and a fairer campaign from both sides.
I believe there are substantial rules around what political parties can say/ do in advertising and propaganda in the run up to an election. Why would those same rules not apply to referendum campaigning?
I dont think its unreasonable to say we have negotiated and been offered X do you wish to have X or remain
Its clearly a better vote when you know what you are voting for and it will be pretty clear the "scaremongering" will be seen as true and the "promises" seen as the blatant lies they were
I think that with everything thats happened over the last couple of weeks- ie: the country, and its future, being hijacked by a gang of ultra right wing headbangers - that another vote for Scottish independence will be well and truly back at the centre of the political agenda at the SNP conference this week.
that particualr referendum feels like it belongs to a previous age now
It might do Binners, but I think the mood of the electorate is to wait and see what happens with Brexit; and while the SNP has its Indy now!faction,it is also finely tuned to the opportunity to make as much headway in the forthcoming chaos. So far it is going EXACTLY as the SNP want.
The Unilever thing isn't what it appears to be as many of the products they've put prices up on are only made in the UK and with commodities that can be sourced here.
They made that point on the news with the implication that it is profiteering.
What was missing was the detail (as ever).
Unilever is Dutch company. If Tesco are paying them in sterling then it seems pretty reasonable that they'll need to hand over a bit more sterling now that it is worth less against the Euro. If Tesco are already paying them in Euros then it has nothing to do with the FX rate or Brexit.
I dont think its unreasonable to say we have negotiated and been offered X do you wish to have X or remain
Trouble is, even if that wasn't political suicide, I don't think we will ever be in that position. We won't know our final "settlement" until we trigger Article 50 and spend the two years negotiating. By that point it'll be too late to say [i]"Actually that's crap, we'll just stay after all thanks, sorry for the bother"[/i].
However I [i]do[/i] think we should have on-going parliamentary scrutiny over the deals being made and the laws being changed.
Frankly it's pretty amazing doublespeak to suggest that allowing MPs to debate and vote on the future of our country is "undemocratic".
I think that with everything thats happened over the last couple of weeks- ie: the country, and its future, being hijacked by a gang of ultra right wing headbangers - that another vote for Scottish independence will be well and truly back at the centre of the political agenda at the SNP conference this week.that particualr referendum feels like it belongs to a previous age now
Indeed
as Scots see the value of the pound tumble and food prices rise, they might just start thinking fk it, what have we got to loose? Even if the numbers dont add up for post indy finances.
An increasingly right wing, xenophobic and clueless looking conservative government will only drive a bigger wedge between Westminster and Scotland
Let's face it, the numbers don't add up for brexit and that didn't stop millions voting for it...
Frankly it's pretty amazing doublespeak to suggest that allowing MPs to debate and vote on the future of our country is "undemocratic".
And given that the Leave campaign played heavily on accusations that the EU was 'undemocratic, remote, and unaccountable' the shear hypocrisy of their position is absolutely breathtaking.
As my gran used to say 'Their faces'd stand clogging'
Unilever is Dutch company. If Tesco are paying them in sterling then it seems pretty reasonable that they'll need to hand over a bit more sterling now that it is worth less against the Euro.
Yes but although it's a Dutch Company listed on the UK FTSE many of the products it's raised prices on are only produced in the UK - including Marmite - ( Burton on Trent). Those goods are all sold to UK retailers in £ by Unilever's UK Sales and Marketing business unit. So there's still no excuse for a 15% rise not least as not all elements of the cost will have increased by that much - the lag in commodity supply contracts means that Unilever is still producing now using raw material purchases completed in April / May - well before any change in exchange rates.
The most likely outcome is that Unilever will have to pay Tesco to regain the shelf space and adjust the prices for goods sold to retailers in Europe - we know this is possible because for the last 5 years Unilever failed to pass on price cuts on goods imported to the UK when the sterling was stronger i.e. British Consumers subsidised the cost of goods sold on the continent.
Maybe we'll also Unilever putting back the thousands of jobs they have cut from operations in the UK over the last 5-10 years.
[b]PRODUCED IN THE UK DOES NOT
MEAN ISOLATED FROM EFFECTS
OF HISTORICALLY WEAK CURRENCY[/b]
[quote=kelvin ]PRODUCED IN THE UK DOES NOT
MEAN ISOLATED FROM EFFECTS
OF HISTORICALLY WEAK CURRENCY
Of course it does. Down with your gloom. good old Mrs Miggins is churning out hand made 50" LCD tvs down 't mill...
edit
So you keep saying "many" and yet you are very scant on giving an actual figure to manymany of the products it's raised prices on are only produced in the UK
What is it in
1) numbers of products v products they do
2) % of income
3) percentage of all costs
I assume you have an evidence base for your claim and are not just speculating so lets see the proof please
Tesco and Univeler need each other to survive. But in those disputes the retailers tend to back down as consumers ask for the branded products.
There is such a price war between supermarkets that none of them want to be the first one to increase their prices.
The other ones might have a longer price agreement with Univeler but eventually they will all be affected.
I buy £1500 of food weekly for work and suppliers have said prices are going up.
Indeed Chris they need each other just like the EU and UK need each other. At its simplest the Unilever story comes down to reporting currency. This is €.
Amusing to think that everything is going to plan for the SNP. Their fairy tale is unraveling in public. The economic case has weakened (not that this stood up to much anyway) their advisors admit that they screwed up on the currency, a Scottish pound would come with massive austerity (go on Nicola) so they are left with the saviour of joining a failed currency union. Thank goodness the majority of Scots can see thru such nonsense.
I agree that leaving the EU makes Scottish independence a much harder sale, but it's worth looking at how Holland/Nederlands relationships work as regards in/out EU. There are some interesting, far from simple to explain, options open to those North of the border as regards having a different relationship with Europe than us sorry sods South of it.
Independence is split roughly 50/50 at the moment. Which way do you think it's going to go if we see across the board 10% price rises over the next year?
What's Better Together going to be called for the next referendum. Bad But It Could Be Worse?
Thank goodness the majority of Scots can see thru such nonsense.
meanwhile in Galsgow....
BREAKING: @NicolaSturgeon announces #indyref2 bill to be published for consultation next week - wins cheers standing ovation #SNP16
I wouldnt be so confident of that THM
the brexishambles makes the SNP look more credible
The majority is Scots are among the few who come out of this with any credit. Union with U.K. is massively beneficial (tick) as is preferential membership of EU i.e. access - € - Schengen
Canny folk let down by occasionally silly politicians.
She is an opportunist like the three BSers
Having said that she and her predecessor spotted post truth politics well before most. They almost got away with it too. I still trust Scots to be sensible though
the brexishambles makes the SNP look more credible
This shower could make anyone look credible
[img] 
?w=940&q=55&auto=format&usm=12&fit=max&s=bfe6633ceea174d3e7083c97488c684a[/img]
I could sympathise with the Scots if they just wanted to be ruled by politicians who weren't completely shambolic.
She is an opportunist like the three BSers
Having said that she and her predecessor spotted post truth politics well before most. They almost got away with it too. I still trust Scots to be sensible though
"credible"???? Incredible more like. The whole argument has been blown out of the water. She will use legitimate arguments re EU to potentially lead Scotland into the folly of the €. Some indeoendence that would be. And she would have to give up on the pretence is being anti-austerity. It would be fun to watch were it not for the real impact it would have on the Scottish people.
For the record, I was a firm no voter in the Scottish referendum
I'm now firmly in the yes camp. The overwhelming majority of my friends who were no voters previously are also in the yes camp now.
Well good luck. You are going down a dead end with that one.
Having said that she and her predecessor spotted post truth politics well before most. They almost got away with it too. I still trust Scots to be sensible though
Post truth politics involves using catchy slogans instead of detailed policy. Say what you like about the White Paper but a catchy slogan it was not.
It gave a detailed proposal that allowed the opposition to pick apart their arguments. This lesson was well learned by the Brexiteers.
I don't follow Scottish politics but N Surgeon has been the one politician standing out from this mess at the very beginning. She didn't hide or disappear like the majority of English politicians. At least she is standing up for what she believes.
Project Fear eh?
Former bosses of Tesco, Sainsbury’s, M&S, Asda, Waitrose, Morrisons and B&Q warn that “prices will rise” if Britain leaves the EU.
Research by retail union USDAW finds that, if we were to leave, the hit to sterling and the imposition of tariffs would increase prices for families by £580 a year.
Stronger In analysis shows higher inflation as a result of leaving would cause a hike in rail fares.
consumers ask for the branded products.
is that why tesco are losing market share to aldi and lidl?
