Because if that wasn't the case then you'd either be eithera) A totally clueless ****-wit who was making it up as they went along
b) A devious bastard who was flagrantly distorting the situation to further an unspoken agenda you wanted kept from both parliament and the people
You could be *both* of those things of course....
You want to curb opinions? What about opposing opinions? Should we curb them too?
No, [i]I[/i] don't.
The people that wrote those articles are the ones saying that the opposing opinions are "disgusting" "unpatriotic" "treachery" "cannot go unpunished" and must be silenced.
I'm the one saying that wanting to curb mainstream opinions because you don't agree with them is undemocratic.
My understanding is that govt is doing what govt supposed to do. i.e. background work.
Did you watch any of the Tory conference or listen to any of the news? They are not quietly doing "background work". They are setting out our stall. And while they are at it they are using the vote as a mandate for introducing measures that no one asked for.
Like I said previously PM May will sign the paper to exit then you can decide and debate..
No actually [url= https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/oct/12/theresa-may-accepts-need-for-brexit-debate-in-parliament?CMP=fb_gu ]she caved and there will be [i]some[/i] debate[/url] on the negotiating strategy, as there blimming well should be in a democracy.
My god can you lot not get on to the they real issue, a free Yorkshire (an it better be cheap). Once again an international bike race has been awarded to Yorkshire, not England or the UK but gods country Yorkshire.
ITs about time we had a freedom for Yorkshire referendum, that there Scotlandshire could tag along with us.
Cry Freedom, cry Yorkshire! Makes me cry every time I hear Northern Power House.
Here's a thought. Since Article 50 says that it can be invoked by a member state "in accordance with its own constitutional requirements" then isn't the EU going to have to verify that it is being invoked in accordance with the UK's own constitutional requirements?
I mean, presumably if I rocked up to the EU and said "We're invoking Article 50. Don't worry, I checked, it's in accordance with our constitutional requirements. OK, bye." then you would hope they would have a lawyer check that I was allowed to invoke Article 50.
Presumably when May invokes Article 50 then the EU is going to have to check that she actually has the right to?
Just take one look at the [s]absolute headbangers[/s] people presently trying to silence any debate. John Redwood? Bill Cash? Paul Dacre? Jacob Rees Mogg? Just look at the ultra-right wing, frankly bonkers policies and agenda's they champion.
And they want to be left to get on with it all behind closed doors, with no democratic oversight?
Given that they're effectively being handed a blank sheet of paper to re-write this countries constitution, are you happy with the editor of the Daily Mail, and his mates, being the ones to do that? And for them to just give us a shout when they've finished?
Just skim-reading the last page, noting jamby's continued absence and chewkw's somwhat rampant bellicose BS, has anyone seen those two in the same room?
And they want to be left to get on with it all behind closed doors, with no democratic oversight?
That's why we have an opposition.
Oh, wait....
If i ever start arguing i am always polite and considered in my opinions
you believe in an unevidenced [b]sky fairy[/b]
Doesn't look very polite or considered. Actually it reads as damn insulting. There are numerous terms you could have used there; deity, god & omnipotent being for example but instead you choose to use a childish insult. Tell me, how many thersauruses do you think have "sky fairy" listed as a synonym of deity?
That was Jamba level.
TBH i think we all many of us debate in a more robust manner on here than ofline
For example three of my closest friends are devoutly religious and a friend from school now teaches RE. I am not as rude to religious folk in the real world as I am on here but they all know how strong my views are but that I respect their choice.
So you're a self acknowledged keyboard warrior. Says even more about you that you think it's fine to talk to folk like this when it's anonymous but wouldn't do the same in real life.
Anyway, moving on...
More evidence that the fall of the pound will be good for the economy*
*strong sarcasm
Doesn't look very polite or considered. Actually it reads as damn insulting. There are numerous terms you could have used there; deity, god & omnipotent being for example but instead you choose to use a childish insult. Tell me, how many thersauruses do you think have "sky fairy" listed as a synonym of deity?
Invisible friend?
That's why we have an opposition.Oh, wait....
Indeed. But luckily it appears the less unhinged elements of the Tory party appear ready to step up to the plate. And in the midst of all this right wing triumphalism, Theresa seems to have forgotten a very important fact. She has a majority of only 12.
Or maybe that's the very reason she wants this kept out of parliament. Because she knows full well that she hasn't got a hope of getting this 'hard Brexit' nonsense past her own party if it goes to a vote
Point 1 - Clearly I am accepting i am rude sometimes on here so I am not sure why you did that - was it to be rude ?
Point 2- you have deliberately misrepresented what i said on order to paint the worst picture with the choice of keyboard warrior- was it to be rude?
that both of these should happen whilst you are appealing for greater politeness is amusing
as i said yes I am,sometimes, rude and now we have established you are but you wish others were not so yes lets move on
FWIW the only definition i found was in the urban dictionary - well known for its politeness
and it was this
The name of any god, spirit or divine presence of which there is no evidence
Not that rude really but certainly dismissive of religion.
the definition of keyboard warrior is much less polite its a bit long so here is a link
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Keyboard%20Warrior
I dont know what it says about irony 😉
.
At the risk of going further down the rabbit hole, and not specifically in defence of JY, I think there's an important distinction between respecting someone's right to a view or belief and respecting the belief itself. I think it's absolutely right that anyone can believe in whatever they choose, but believe in something that is obviously (to me anyway) ridiculous and I reserve the right to ridicule. Again, it's the belief that is ridiculed not the right of the person to hold said belief. I don't see that belief in the christian god is any more or less ridiculous than belief in the flying spaghetti monster, so to me they are equally fair game.
It's another thing altogether when there are some points of view so objectionable that I don't think a person has a right to hold them. I'm taking here about racism for example. In those cases I think it's important to challenge those beleifs very robustly indeed.
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This article kind of sums things up nicely. [url= https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/oct/12/britain-brexit-eu-pound-euro ]Brexit means... what ever the eu wants it to mean. [/url]
The Brexit command is totally deluded about there own power or negotiating strength. It may go down well to get U.K. Votes to knock the eu but it makes for a terrible negotiating strategy.
I find it really interesting the control of language that brexit has. The brexit vote was a slight majority in favour but somehow has become an overwhelming mandate. A brexit campaign that campaigned on the money we could save , sovereignty and a declining Europe becomes about resolutely controlling immigration.
To all whom it concerns-
A. This is serious
B. We have a narrow marginal vote for Brexit (but it is a vote for Brexit)
C. We have an unelected PM with significant power
D. Those in charge of Brexit are shall we say are questionable
E. Our elected representatives have no vote on the terms (therefore we have no vote - forget the referendum folks it's done)
So in conclusion our collective future (regardless of politics) has been handed to an unelected pm and the gang of four (of which Hammond is the only nervous about brexit rep)
How is this democracy? A 4% swing vote of the voters has handed 5 people the future of this country with what appears to be little accountability? To parody Churchill never have so many been so dependent on so few.
47% (probably a lot more now the realisation is setting in) of this country has NO representation politically or economically- I think this is as close as it is possible to get to a dictatorship within the UK.
I have seen some shit in my 53 years and after Thatcher; Miners strikes etc I never thought anything more divisive would ever happen. Well here we are.
well at least they have the carefully laid out manifesto promises to fulfill.
oh wait, no hang on. it was a load of screaming bullshit by liars.
Not generally a fan on Tesco's business practices but at least they have "called out"
Unilever for trying to up prices on British goods due to Brexit / £
Boarding - just bored really, same old stuff same old thread conduct so why bother. Maybe for amusement I should dig up all the abuse and ridicule I got when I said I was actively campaigning for Leave. How many here stood on street stalls or dropped leaflets round for Remain ? An object lesson in winning nothing by arguing on an internet forum
First heard about the marmite and food thing from a Brexiter - who only just gets by each month - worring about going into the red and blaming the companies for profiteering. From what I've heard from a friend that works in the food industry, this is going to happen across the board from 2017 onwards as food manufacturers were running really tight margins already - so no room to absorb the tanking pound.
It's very gratifying to see these idiots losing their minds.
Not generally a fan on Tesco's business practices but at least they have "called out"
Unilever for trying to up prices on British goods due to Brexit / £
I mean the cheek right! When all the imported goods, such as Barley and Hops from the states are skyrocketting. You're just as foolish as the ex-friend I mentioned above.
welcome back 😉
The problem will be two fold - (in bullet point mode today)
1. Massive parliamentary bun fight and the Lords have yet to weigh in and this will all convolute the process.
2. Someone in the EU (Slovenia Slovakia etc) will simply go * off you arrogant *s
3. Out in the cold weather go - please could the blind faith brigade just not respond with rainbows and pots of gold
Do you guys actually feel for the people who have to endure EU since 1 January 1973?
I've just joined these people.
Feel free to do something productive.
http://euromove.org.uk/we-need-your-support/
Endure EU ?
like cheap holidays in Spain , decent quality food at reasonable prices , freedom of movement and capitals ?
Part of me still thinks that she want the brexiteers to get a shit deal- giving them enough rope etc= and parliament overturn and it and she can say I tried
Then again she does also seem massively anti immigration so may get that in a deal if parliament over turns it
I agree the Brexit vote has to be upheld and we do need to open negotiations
Somewhere some form of democracy has to offer an opinion on the deal we get and whether we want to accept that or remain
It's Not that likely it will be another referendum but it is hard to see how we leave to reclaim power and then dont have a vote on by our elected representatives. Would be ironic if unelected bureaucrats negotiate our release and no one votes on it.
Binners you'd be able to read Corbyn's reasons for leaving the EU had he not deleted all his old blogposts.
I see ernie can't be bothered to contribute, can't blame him for that
Anyway - I'll survive just about here in London, looking forward to watching the North and the Midlands turn into East Germany.
Zippy, the ship has sailed. Merkel's 5 year ban on claiming unemployment benefit has been passed I see. Voters throughout Europe are fed up with the EU. It's corrupt, incompetant and bust
cchris2lou - Member
Endure EU ?like cheap holidays in Spain , decent quality food at reasonable prices , freedom of movement and capitals ?
All superficial.
No need to be in EU to enjoy them.
You get the feeling the easiest/sensible way out of all of this for the Government is another referendum. Keep asking the question till you get the answer that you can live with. 😉
Tom, we grow Barkey and Hops too
I find it really interesting the control of language that brexit has. The brexit vote was a slight majority in favour but somehow has become an overwhelming mandate. A brexit campaign that campaigned on the money we could save , sovereignty and a declining Europe becomes about resolutely controlling immigration.
Quite agree, its not about immigrants, but really it is
then todays PMQs/brexageddon debate was just ridiculously depressing,
May completely denies (aka barefaced lies) that Rudd says they were gonna name and shame immigrant employers, then theres gonna be a green paper and debate and a vote, then ever more confused looking Davies says, no green paper, Johnson wants us to overrun the russian embassy, everyone says Fox is a ****, Redwood is still carrying on the unhinged gigglig conversation he was having with himself on newsnight about how we have the stronger negotiating position
there were as many tories as labour asking for a debate and vote on hard or soft,
Kier Starmer was calmly skewering the entire front bench, Corbyn seems bewildered that all of a sudden he's scoring easy hits at PMQs.
No wonder the pound is on its arse- its painfully f-king obvious that none of the government have a clue what they want from Brexit or how to go about getting it
so we are going to tumble into a WTO tarriftastic deal where, all foreign investment will leg it to somewhere with proper access to the free market.
Theres only one way it could get worse and thats if a spray tanned, racist, rapey, narcisisst, who we all thought was made up for tv were to become POTUS
Jam, I want to spend my retirement somewhere warm.
If I can't go to Spain where can I go? I won't get enough points on any "Australian points based system" to get me anywhere else that's warm.
Sure you and your patriotic friends can claim victory to every barrier you put to stop them foreign ****s coming in. Well,surprise,surprise them foreign ****s will respond in kind.
Ich bin ein foreign ****.
Spain is 90 minutes away. It's nearer than the top of Scotland.
Your stupid vote it costing me money and stopping me sitting in the sun. What are you getting out of the deal? What benefits are you feeling today? You've split the country,led to a rise in racism and sunk the economy.
Thanks a ****ing million.
http://euromove.org.uk/we-need-your-support/
I'm lucky, I can always **** off to the Philippines - also my wifes company is making a tidy profit on Brexit - so her bonus will be pretty good this year. Save 20 grand and we could live like kings for a few years until this has all blown over.
Jambalaya's fine - French wife with benefits that go with that for him and his children in terms of EU residency / citizenship.
If I can't go to Spain where can I go?
Gibraltar?
Tom, we grow Barkey and Hops too
You are aware that even in a good year we only grow enough barley to supply 60% of our brewing industry? Hops far less and most of the newer and more popular varieties don't grow well here due to climate. I'm pretty sure I explained this to you the last time you mentioned this too.....
If we pretend that the solution to our problems is to grow more of our own food then barley production would likely be one of the first crops to be replaced. But as putting national wellbeing ahead of profits is anathema to Brexiters I can't see this ever being an issue.
Well if Brexit can deliver autumn lambs Im sure we can grow as much hops as we desire
I watched some of today's debate - how long do you think May's got?
The knives were out on both sides of the house, and amongst disenfranchised leavers and remainers.
I have an idea. Cut all this rubbish about hard or soft Brexit and the reasons for why people voted.
We were promised moon on a stick Brexit. Give us moon on a stick Brexit.
All I want to hear now (and it may still be too early) is for the proponents of Brexit to eventually start admitting it's not doing us any good. Instead of wising up we still have people defending the hole in the unstable ship.
Okay let it sink, fair enough but you lot had better start taking stock of the evidence soon as I'm getting increasingly frustrated with those that defend the choice and do not realise they have created something we just weren't ready for.
Also as a small film production company we are just getting the info for the latest camera equipment we usually upgrade to. Will struggle to do it this time around due to cost. (The upgrading cycle is crucial to stay ahead)
We are at the same time expected to deliver extremely competitive prices to the local authority for training and educational films - we haven't raised our prices in years as we like to accommodate them. We are currently going through a few tendering processes and it's hard to remain super competitive.
We can't sustain both. I would love to be able to buy British equipment but guess what it doesn't really exist any more.
Marmite shortages!
