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EU Referendum - are...
 

[Closed] EU Referendum - are you in or out?

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Jamby in not sure how far right you have to be too think that grammar schools, replacing foreign doctors with British ones and demonising immigrants and foreign students is centrist.....


 
Posted : 05/10/2016 6:34 pm
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If that's the centre then 😯

Also who are the elites that were supposed to be out to get now..


 
Posted : 05/10/2016 6:50 pm
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@jamba... Theresa May is not inclusive in the notion of the whole of society. Listen to her words...all she ever talks about is people who are working. She never mentions those who aren't e.g. less-abled people. At best she is only inclsusive regards the working population and even then she's on very shaky ground.

What a lovely person we have as leader of our country... disgraceful attitude to take towards those less fortunate for no fault of their owm.


 
Posted : 05/10/2016 6:54 pm
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Singapore has been a massive success commercially. There is a small portion of the local population who don't like the "one party state" overtones but none of them want the economic success or political freedoms of Thailand, Malaysia or Indonesia their immediate neighbours, how about Burma ?

Singapore has about 50% locals, 50% temporary immigrants. Some feautures of Singapore

Tough application process - education/professional certificates, proof you will bring specific required skills, high earning job to provide taxes
If you lose your job you have 2 weeks to leave (now possible to stay 6 months if you are job hunting)
Any serious crime you are deported after serving any prison time / flogging if required. Note graffiti on a public building is a serious crime
No interferring in political process
No benefits / welfare / health provision
Only rent/buy designated "ex-pat" accomodation which is much more expensive than locals have access too.
If you apply for Permanent Resident status thats a 5 year term

Singapore brings in many construction workers, they live in dedicated employer provided accommodation


Seriously, you're seriously posting that as an example of something we should aspire to?
I suppose banning women from driving mught help relieve pressure on the roads to?
Jesus H Christ! It's unbelievable how anyone could think that that is a reasonable way to live or treat other people. I can see why you think Trump is a harmless pussycat now.


 
Posted : 05/10/2016 6:57 pm
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Will our new blue passports have Subject crossed out and replaced by Employee?


 
Posted : 05/10/2016 6:59 pm
 mrmo
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Will our new blue passports have Subject crossed out and replaced by Employee?

don't you mean serf?


 
Posted : 05/10/2016 7:04 pm
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Solved with a 5yr renewable VISA.

You think coming on a visa is the same as coming because you have the right to come?

I've taken jobs in two different countries, and all I had to do was pass the interview. No red tape.

The other problem with work permit visas is that if you lose your job you have to go home. Which is pretty bad if you've built a life in a place and have family, kids, they have friends and so on.


 
Posted : 05/10/2016 7:25 pm
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Captain I post it as an example of a policy which I am familiar and one which is popular with it's citizens where 50% of the population are immigrants on short-medium term visas. I am not saying it's a model just an example.

Kimbers May made a very good point about Grammar schools. People with the money to go Private can choose academically selective schools and the majority do exactly that. People without the money have no choice as the law forbids them to have that choice. Corbyn is going to be on dodgy ground campaigning against grammar schools in Liverpool, Manchester, Birmingham and Newcastle.


 
Posted : 05/10/2016 7:29 pm
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The other problem with work permit visas is that if you lose your job you have to go home. Which is pretty bad if you've built a life in a place and have family, kids, they have friends and so on.

Not in Jamba's eyes. He lacks empathy, he won't understand that argument.
It's pointless even trying.


 
Posted : 05/10/2016 7:32 pm
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Molgrips, I have had two jobs in countries with visas and in both cases there where options / mechanisms to stay if I lost my job. There should be some red tape, the employer should demonstrate you are adding value and that there is not a local person who could do / is available to do the job. Australian system works just like that, sometimes they want PhD's, sometimes they want tradesmen and they vary requirements by region / state. Oz takes twice as many immigrants pa as does the UK and they have 1/3rd the population. They seem to manage just fine


 
Posted : 05/10/2016 7:32 pm
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Told you, no empathy just another example from JambaWorld.
He'll be telling us that some of his best friends are foreigners next. 😀


 
Posted : 05/10/2016 7:36 pm
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Northwind - Member
... and a terrible loss of influence worldwide, ...

Influence? Please don't please ... oh Lord here comes troubles.


 
Posted : 05/10/2016 7:38 pm
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Hmmm is it

Reichsfrauenführerin May or die Führerin ?

panem et circenses

I really hope it is this.


 
Posted : 05/10/2016 7:45 pm
 DrJ
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DrJ that's an HDB apartment block, that's what the locals can BUY. They are always oversubscribed. I have an Aussie mate who lives in one by the way in Little India, we always stay with him when we visit. Construction workers live in much simpler temporary accomodation generally fwiw.

You apparently didn't read the article. Surprise.


 
Posted : 05/10/2016 7:48 pm
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You are jumping to conclusions......... its entirely possible he failed to understand it 😉


 
Posted : 05/10/2016 8:08 pm
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There should be some red tape, the employer should demonstrate you are adding value and that there is not a local person who could do / is available to do the job. Australian system works just like that

The Australian system blocks a lot of awfully capable migrants, for a variety of reasons.

Oz takes twice as many immigrants pa as does the UK and they have 1/3rd the population. They seem to manage just fine.

LOL


 
Posted : 05/10/2016 8:23 pm
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big_n_daft - Member
listening to the snapshots on the radio news I'd say she has THM's online persona down to a "T"

Are you big?

Only caught a brief part of Mays speech. It's was very very odd and full of contradictions. She stated that Conservatives were supporters of capitalism and free markets and then immediately spent 5 minutes talking about the important (?) role of the state and produced a long list of where she was going to intervene. No wonder people are so confused about what capitalism is. NW I now understand your problem.

Seems she is being smart and scary at the same time. On the one hand she is parking the bus firmly in the middle. But at the same time she has targeted the white working class vote as the swing factor and is happy to pander to their baser desires in contrast to Jezza's pro immigration, anti monarchy and anti military stance

I guess she is relying on the fact that the great British public will not see through the blatant contradictions.


 
Posted : 05/10/2016 8:29 pm
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chewkw - Member

Influence? Please don't please ... oh Lord here comes troubles.

It's actually a pretty big deal... There's english-speaking graduates with fond memories of the UK and a good cultural understanding all around the world and some are in very influential positions. It's a totally unquantifiable asset but it's certainly a positive.


 
Posted : 05/10/2016 8:31 pm
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The Australian system blocks a lot of awfully capable migrants, for a variety of reasons.

because they have an even more capable applicant ?

DrJ, that's a fair point. I got bored after the first paragraph. The Singaporeans are pretty functional about workers accomodation, they point out it's better than they have in their home countries and the wages are higher than they'd get at home too.


 
Posted : 05/10/2016 8:33 pm
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Northwind, appreciate it's your choice whether to bother but it's valuable to have your point of view on this topic in particular


 
Posted : 05/10/2016 8:34 pm
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Tax. Appreciate this is not a Theresa May thread but I very much hope she uses Brexit and stepping away from the giant tax scam that is the EU to deliver on this .. Google, Facebook, Amazon, Starbucks, Apple included

if you’re a tax dodger we’re coming after you..If you’re an accountant, a financial adviser or a middleman who helps people to avoid what they owe to society, we’re coming after you too


 
Posted : 05/10/2016 8:37 pm
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There should be some red tape, the employer should demonstrate you are adding value and that there is not a local person who could do / is available to do the job.

What if the local person COULD do the job but isn't as good as the foreigner? You'd still have to give it to the local? Wouldn't this reduce business performance and competitiveness?

I think we will have already lost a lot of potential good quality workers.


 
Posted : 05/10/2016 8:50 pm
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Tax. Appreciate this is not a Theresa May thread but I very much hope she uses Brexit and stepping away from the giant tax scam that is the EU to deliver on this .. Google, Facebook, Amazon, Starbucks, Apple included

But they're only using the law to their own advantage. They're not doing anything illegal. We can't use different argument on different threads to suit ourselves.
What would Donald do?


 
Posted : 05/10/2016 8:51 pm
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because they have an even more capable applicant ?

Sometimes. Other times it's because migrating is very expensive, very complex, time consuming for the applicant, insecure, age dependant, health dependant and the system is slow to react.


 
Posted : 05/10/2016 9:03 pm
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Northwind - Member
chewkw - Member
Influence? Please don't please ... oh Lord here comes troubles.

It's actually a pretty big deal... There's english-speaking graduates with fond memories of the UK and a good cultural understanding all around the world and some are in very influential positions. It's a totally unquantifiable asset but it's certainly a positive

Yes, educate them in treating animal nicely. Educate them not to eat everything in sight. Have mercy on the animals. Educate them in looking after their environment. Trade with them etc ...

But let them deal with their own people themselves and certainly avoid messing with their politics. i.e. avoid the example of the outgoing US President disrespectfully criticising a sovereign state.


 
Posted : 05/10/2016 9:04 pm
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Yay, chewkw is back. It was good when you were banned, it meant I didn't have to read your incoherent drivel.


 
Posted : 05/10/2016 9:10 pm
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Some horrific points in the Guardian's post-Brexit May article.


 
Posted : 05/10/2016 9:14 pm
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Tax. Appreciate this is not a Theresa May thread but I very much hope she uses Brexit and stepping away from the giant tax scam that is the EU to deliver on this .. Google, Facebook, Amazon, Starbucks, Apple included

Even by the convoluted logical standards of Brexiteers, there is quite some mental gymnastics here. Companies get away with tax avoidance by arbitraging between different tax regimes. The only solution is a coordinated one. Brexit makes that much harder and plays into the hands of the avoiders not the other way round.


 
Posted : 05/10/2016 9:28 pm
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[quote=mrhoppy ]Yay, chewkw is back. It was good when you were banned, it meant I didn't have to read your incoherent drivel.
[url= https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/singletrack-world-forum-e/cpgdlmbifgbhcoigdoeoooakijdionop ]all hail the kill file[/url]

Chrome extension that basically removes certain posters contributions


 
Posted : 05/10/2016 9:29 pm
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[quote=teamhurtmore ]I guess she is relying on the fact that the great British public will not see through the blatant contradictions.

Well it's the reason she's PM, so she might as well run with it.


 
Posted : 05/10/2016 9:59 pm
 rone
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Brexit makes that much harder and plays into the hands of the avoiders not the other way round.

Quite. I seem to remember a few weeks ago the EU taking Apple to task. Can you imagine the British government doing that with any sort of conviction ?

The evidence doesn't doesn't stack up to support Jambalaya's argument.


 
Posted : 05/10/2016 10:17 pm
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TMH there will NEVER be a co-ordinated one. Even when Ireland was bust they refused to budge. Luxembourg under Junker turned itself into Europe's richest nation via tax swerves. Even if you harmonise rates of tax there are a million loopholes. Irish tax is 12.5% but Apple paid 1% and we all remember the PWC Lux leak, hundreds if not thousands of cosy deals. Companies well know they can play one EU state against another. Irleand and Lux are kore than happy to collect £10m even if that means the rest of the EU loses out on a £ billion.

Quite. I seem to remember a few weeks ago the EU taking Apple to task

Hardly, EU has ignored these deals for years, they have been shamed into it by the PWC leak (and Lux courrs took the two whistleblowers to court 😯 ) and when as a result €300m of past tax was colelcted in Lux as a result

@Captain you will recall I called the US loss carry forwrd stupid. I am consistent. Trump would do just as Apple etc do. That's why the law needs changing and is one reason why "full access to the single market" is a bad idea.

There is a vested interest here, we need to pay for the services we want. All of these companies are putting UK businesses under as they have a tax advantage.


 
Posted : 05/10/2016 10:18 pm
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Well then the issue will not go away. That's simple You said it yourself, companies play states off against each other. This makes that more not less likely.

Another Brexit clusterfu@@


 
Posted : 05/10/2016 10:23 pm
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as if the uk government is going to upset businesses even more by changing tax laws .
" we are open for business , but you have to pay more tax "

not going to happen .


 
Posted : 05/10/2016 10:25 pm
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But they need us more than we need them....

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/oct/05/angela-merkel-takes-significantly-tougher-brexit-stance?CMP=fb_gu


 
Posted : 05/10/2016 10:27 pm
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The evidence doesn't doesn't stack up to support Jambalaya's argument.

Indeed

https://www.ft.com/content/b4b66986-77fa-11e5-933d-efcdc3c11c89


 
Posted : 05/10/2016 10:29 pm
 rone
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Hardly, EU has ignored these deals for years
,

You need to demonstrate without the EU (given the Apple precedent) how it would be better?

I genuinely don't understand your argument. It seems to defy what has happened recently. And using the [i]fact[/i] that the EU ignored this or that previously doesn't cut it for me. It's not a counter argument.


 
Posted : 05/10/2016 10:31 pm
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Can you imagine the British government doing that with any sort of conviction ?

Ask a diesel VW owner how effectively the UK government is chasing up their compensation...


 
Posted : 05/10/2016 10:33 pm
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Rone - according to the BS philosophy, if in doubt blame the EU. It's a faultless tactic - 51% of us swallowed it.

Amazed no one though of blaming others before, especially foreigners.


 
Posted : 05/10/2016 10:35 pm
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as if the uk government is going to upset businesses even more by changing tax laws .

Listen to what May said. Apple, Amazon, eBay, Facebook, Google even Starbucks (who at oeast have people working in shops) add very little value to the UK, all they do is sell products into the UK

TMH there won't be agreement as everyone will fight over the taxes including US and it ends up with them being paid nowhere. It's either a change in corporate tax law or more VAT. FT is behind a paywall and I don't play internet link tennis anyway

rone the EU has done the square root of f-all. Osbourne got £100m out of Google, the French are going for closer to a € billion

I do accept the Government may fail to deliver as I wish on this but May's words where at least encouraging.


 
Posted : 05/10/2016 10:38 pm
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@Nipper Merkel amd Hollande face elections, talking tough is required for their domestic agenda. I assume you've seen the German car Unions statements urging a deal. They also need to work out how they will raise taxes/cut spending in Germnay to raise the extra €5bn pa EU budget contribution they have to find. If EU won't negotiate let them try a few years with WTO tariffs. TBH they are going to be too distracted with Refugee crises and eurozone soveriegn debt crises to focus on anything else.


 
Posted : 05/10/2016 10:42 pm
 rone
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I honestly think all of this is too complex to assimilate and bat out so we were always going to take the path of least resistance. That is, like you say blame the minorities.

Listening to any questions last week in Boston, Linc's - the debate became so convoluted between left and right, unemployment and low wages that I forgot the argument and decided it must just be eaiser to blame the poor leak pickers.


 
Posted : 05/10/2016 10:44 pm
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Listen to what May said. Apple, Amazon, eBay, Facebook, Google even Starbucks (who at oeast have people working in shops) add very little value to the UK, all they do is sell products into the UK

I have the text on the screen in front of me - cant see these comments anywhere!!

TMH there won't be agreement as everyone will fight over the taxes including US and it ends up with them being paid nowhere. It's either a change in corporate tax law or more VAT. FT is behind a paywall and I don't play internet link tennis anyway

So what is you argument then - that the UK is going to deal with this unilaterally? Put that in the £350m drawer


 
Posted : 05/10/2016 10:48 pm
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Ask a diesel VW owner how effectively the UK government is chasing up their compensation...

UK Govt powerless, its an EU law issue. I have made this point a number if times before.

Hopefully we can get proper on-the-road testing and repeat that as cars age and adjust VED accordingly. We should move to petrol/hybrid and tax diesel heavily to reflect real world pollution. There have been many studies showing city pollution increasing even though cars are allegedly cleaner. The culprit is diesel which in practice is far dirtier than the test says


 
Posted : 05/10/2016 10:48 pm
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Jambalaya, those businesses have no need to be UK based at all. What is stopping them from moving their UK offices some where else?


 
Posted : 05/10/2016 10:48 pm
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