but where are the people claiming it's Nicola Sturgeon's fault? Not even THM thinks that.
No, just laughing at how silly her immediate response about joining the Euro was. Jezza is clearly out of his depth on this issue, but Nicola is into total la, la land. If there is one thing that is obvious, the € is the last thing ANYONE needs. But in her rush to react she just showed how desperate she is and how her understanding of basic economics is totally flawed. You guys really do deserve better...but you know that.
teamhurtmore - MemberNo, just laughing at how silly her immediate response about joining the Euro was
Citation needed...
teamhurtmore - Member
But in her rush to react she just showed how desperate she is and how her understanding of basic economics is totally flawed. You guys really do deserve better...but you know that.
She is riding the wind of success of her majority so decide to strike it home while she is still hot (hot in the sense of popular).
FFS, no wonder the SNP get away with it!?!?
Too much to hope for a response I suppose.
Well folks i am afraid you are all going to have to do as Mrs May says for the next few years. An analysis of the opposition tends to indicate 9 years of Right wing rule is the minimum we must endure regardless of the procrastination of the SNP Labour UKIP Lib Dems so suck it up folks and crack on -
I must admit the shite put out by the three musketeers (Boris DD and Liam Fox trot) is staggeringly stupid and everytime someone says "well BMW need us more than we need them" I just wince! As I am sure the BMW buying (leasing) customer base will happily stump up another £50 a month to keep the "status symbol" no large UK based manufacturers will shut up shop and run to France but they will cease to invest long term - it's just simple maths. We will agree a trade deal that allows free movement of people as this is a very low price to pay for retaining wealth - so Brexiteers we keep the laws, free movement and no one gets sent home, not quite what most were voting for.
Fiscal interests will always win regardless of politics (or referendums)
Oh and by the way the bits that can be changed (legally) Grammar schools, European Human Rights etc will simply isolate even further the poor in the UK
Obviously given your response to the last time. What is the point?
But try google(hint try The Herald) oh and your econs dept, they don't bite honestly
Wonder how Renault Nissan will respond?
and to be blunt, most people who can afford a new car will still be able to afford a new car, it might cost a bit more and worst case a few options get dropped.
For those at the bottom it is not going to go well, as always.
molgrips - Member
Anyone actually WON any contracts against EU competitors since brexit? Seems like lots of stories of companies losing out. Wonder if there are any other stories?
A guy I'm acquainted with up Stratford way has secured what could be a quite lucrative distribution of German produced food products, not sure exactly what it is, he buys and sells starch, they decided they now need to appoint distributors for the future and he got the deal, so it'll mean more jobs in his outfit.
Oh THM, you used to be worth arguing with. If you can't or won't back up a comment, why make it? It just makes you look silly. Your original comment is so vague, how on earth can anyone else google it even if they want to? "Sturgeon said a thing! Google for it! Whatever it was"
Oh THM, you used to be worth arguing with. If you can't or won't back up a comment, why make it? It just makes you look silly.
#jambalite
Why does everything that deviate from your views (assume you are on the left) is Right wing?oldmanmtb - Member
An analysis of the opposition tends to indicate 9 years of Right wing rule ...
Shouldn't there be say Centre Left, Centre, Centre Right then Right?
My view is that PM May is the right person to lead and will be a good non-needy PM that does not give running commentaries.
mrmo - Member
Wonder how Renault Nissan will respond?
They are foolish to get involve in politics. They should simply concentrate on their business. If they leave I can bet that Nissan will struggle to sell any in the UK unless they give massive discount.
So did you NW but this recent blinkered approach makes it a waste of time. If you want to deny what Sturgeon said, then so be it. The truth is blindingly obvious. The SNP rely on this type of behaviour.
Don't give up the day job Doc.
she said she wont give any running commentaries .
cchris2lou - Member
she said she wont give any running commentaries .
I already like her even more with her no nonsense approach.
She gets my vote.
teamhurtmore - MemberIf you want to deny what Sturgeon said, then so be it.
I'm still waiting for you to tell me what comment you're referring to 🙄
"Sturgeon said something!"
"Which thing?"
"Google it!"
"Which thing in particular would you like me to google?"
"If you want to deny what Sturgeon said, then so be it"
"TBH I'd just like to know what you're talking about"
"Ask someone else!"
I feel like I'm in a Beckett play
The vague (sic) point (you even highlighted it 😯 )
No, just laughing at how silly her immediate response about joining the Euro was.
The quote
NICOLA Sturgeon has opened the door to the possibility of Scotland adopting the euro if a new independence referendum is triggered by Thursday's EU vote.
and a link to a nat source
So who looks "silly" with comments about being vague and no links? Ok not a silly as Doc's comments but not far away.
Two days running too. The board will need constant wiping at this rate. Alternatively you can up your game. Your choice....but cmon if you want to push a point make an effort to make it a half-reasonable one
only a few voted for her . not the whole country .
They are foolish to get involve in politics. They should simply concentrate on their business.
They are.
They gave fair warning before the vote that Brexit might mean it is more economical for them to manufacturer elsewhere. So now Brexit is going ahead and it looks like Nissan are scaling back the Sunderland plant as they said they would.
and they wont be the only one .
Unless May and co screw up workers rights so much that manufacturing in the Uk becomes good again .
Oh I see, so it's all some mad THM overreaction to when she said that SNP policy [i]isn't[/i] to join the euro, but it's something that could be discussed? And from that you're trying to imply that she's pro-euro? I don't think I'd have ever guessed that tbh but OK.
<edit>
I just noticed the other thing... "So who looks "silly" with comments about being vague and no links?". You do realise you clarified your post and added the link [i]after[/i] I said that, right? Actually, after I had to ask you several times to do just that? Forget I said that, I'm sure you do but want to imply otherwise.
She is very lucky to have voters with such quality of thought - it must feel like Xmas every day. What would Jezza give for the same.
edit for edit - have plenty of water before you go to bed, it should help 😉
GrahamS - Member
They gave fair warning before the vote that Brexit might mean it is more economical for them to manufacturer elsewhere. So now Brexit is going ahead and it looks like Nissan are scaling back the Sunderland plant as they said they would.
More economical? Or more like a brand on the way out asking for a favour? They better go now so everything can start with a clean slate without having to listen to a company getting clever in politics. Then we can see how long Nissan as a brand will survive.
I am not bothered who vote for her. I vote for her.cchris2lou - Member
only a few voted for her . not the whole country .
They better go now so everything can start with a clean slate without having to listen to a company getting clever in politics. Then we can see how long Nissan as a brand will survive.
Tr
Lol... Business goes where it works, governments try and bribe businesses to stay. Large employers are linked to the politics of an area like it or not. The good ones (Nissan for instance) probably cared a lot about the area and the workforce but could see like every other rational person what brexit would mean for their business.
But none of this matters to you chewkw does it? You couldn't give a shit about the workers in Sunderland or anywhere else. Another ideology driven muppet.
Thought i would do a bit of an internet trawl of the foreign press, and it seems no one really gives a $hit, a few papers don't even mention TM's speech some place it way down the list of news stories. [s]Bulgaria[/s] Hungary seems the popular story.
Mind you one paper was leading on cape verde islands!
Not Hungary?
mikewsmith - Member
Tr
Lol... Business goes where it works, governments try and bribe businesses to stay. Large employers are linked to the politics of an area like it or not. The good ones (Nissan for instance) probably cared a lot about the area and the workforce but could see like every other rational person what brexit would mean for their business.
LOL @ "... cared a lot ..."? That's new. So organisation/company cares for the people now.
Very simple until they are not making profit they are just being political. Profit might dip but that does not mean the company is not doing well. Just the stakeholders complaining about less return on investment.
How come all of a sudden you have forgotten how Sunderland voted?But none of this matters to you chewkw does it? You couldn't give a shit about the workers in Sunderland or anywhere else. Another ideology driven muppet.
mrmo - Member
Thought i would do a bit of an internet trawl of the foreign press, and it seems no one really gives a $hit, a few papers don't even mention TM's speech some place it way down the list of news stories. Bulgaria seems the popular story.
Good the less the media mention PM May the better.
I think the referendum in Hungary should be much more interesting.
The leave vote conned them, they are now going to find out what that means. Unfortunately for an area that has suffered so much it's going to be another set back.
Very simple until they make a lost i.e. no profit, they are just being political
Remind us again which bit of government you work for?
You can't operate a business like that, if you invest millions today then make a loss you could forsee tomorrow your an idiot.
Chewkw I am politically a centrist socialist I suppose? And have little time for extreme right or left as in practical terms the extremes always abuse one section of society or another - I believe that politics is an extension of society and that includes business (Nissan for examle) that supports the well being of a community by offering well paid and secure employment - for that community to vote for the potential degradation of that commitment is odd and indicates that some element of disinformation has occurred, I would bet my house on Sunderland Ship Builders NOT coming back to life post Brexit to pick up the slack. As the old saying goes you don't realise what you have until it's gone. It may take 10 years for the full impact of withdrawl by this type of business but it will happen as the bottom line is key to most organisations.
61% of the people voted to leave so are so easily misled?mikewsmith - Member
The leave vote conned them, they are now going to find out what that means. Unfortunately for an area that has suffered so much it's going to be another set back.
Remind us again which bit of government you work for?
You can't operate a business like that, if you invest millions today then make a loss you could forsee tomorrow your an idiot.
Part time peanut munching bureaucrat I am.
Absolutely, with their invested millions they should not simply threaten a nation [b][u]before even knowing exactly[/u][/b] what the Govt/nation might do for them. Aren't they jumping the gun?
61%
I'm sure you mean 51%?
I have no problem with all that but Tories are definitely Not extreme. Annoying sometime yes but not extreme.oldmanmtb - Member
Chewkw I am politically a centrist socialist I suppose? And have little time for extreme right or left as in practical terms the extremes always abuse one section of society or another -
I believe that politics is an extension of society and that includes business (Nissan for examle) that supports the well being of a community by offering well paid and secure employment
Nissan sell rather well in the UK (not in the Far East or South East Asia) with all the supports for their brand as they wish from the British consumers. Their sales have increased nicely so why are they threatening the nation? If this is not political I don't know what is.
[url= http://nissaninsider.co.uk/nissan-reveals-half-year-2015-figures-for-uk/ ]Nissan half year 2015 figures[/url]
- for that community to vote for the potential degradation of that commitment is odd and indicates that some element of disinformation has occurred, I would bet my house on Sunderland Ship Builders NOT coming back to life post Brexit to pick up the slack.
Disinformation? Who have more information other than the people who work there together with the published information? Perhaps, the disinformation might come from the company themselves. Look at the link above or are they hiding something?
The shipbuilding industry disappeared under the EU watch is it not? In fact most EU shipbuilding industry disappeared under EU watch and only the high end luxury ships still being built in Denmark. How long before they too disappear let's see.
As the old saying goes you don't realise what you have until it's gone. It may take 10 years for the full impact of withdrawl by this type of business but it will happen as the bottom line is key to most organisations.
I am sure something will replace them as 10 years is a "long" time.
I was referring to Sunderland vote - 61%mrlebowski - Member
61%
I'm sure you mean 51%?
Nissan half year 2015 figures
Yep they sell a fair bit to the UK market - but that Sunderland plant punts out over half a million cars a year, which they also want to sell to Europe.
They can do that cheaper if they are not paying tarrifs on the incoming raw materials or outgoing cars.
I was referring to Sunderland vote - 61%
Speaking of votes:
[img] 
[/img]
From [url= http://www.sunderlandecho.com/news/business/why-theresa-may-must-tell-sunderland-and-nissan-what-she-means-by-brexit-means-brexit-1-8157395 ]this story[/url] in the Sunderland Echo last Friday.
The Nissan plant at Sunderland employs 7,000 people and produces 1 in every 3 cars the UK manufactures.
Asked at the Paris Motor Show what factors the company would consider in deciding where to build any future model, company boss Carlos Ghosn told said: "If I need to make an investment in the next few months and I can’t wait until the end of Brexit, then I have to make a deal with the UK government."You can have commitments of compensation in case you have something negative. If there are tax barriers being established on cars, you have to have a commitment for carmakers who export to Europe that there is some kind of compensation."
His remarks indicate a growing concern among global carmakers that Britain could be heading towards a so-called 'hard Brexit', which would leave them paying tariffs to export UK-assembled cars to EU markets.
Mr Ghosn told reporters that the Sunderland plant would lose competitiveness [b]if Britain was left dealing with the EU under World Trade Organisation rules - rather than as part of the Single Market - which would effectively add 10% to the cost of a UK-built model[/b].
The plant's future could "without any doubt" be harmed unless there was a way to overcome the extra cost, he added.
-- [url= http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/nissan-wants-guarantee-brexit-compensation-11958901 ]Chronicle, 29th Sep 2016[/url]
I'm sure chewkw will say "Ah see.. asking for a favour" but why would Nissan, a French-owned company, keep a major manufacturing plant here and suffer a 10% hit in costs when they could move it elsewhere in Europe, where they might also benefit from lower wage costs?
Renault/Nissan and the other car producers. Fall in £ equal to or greater than WTO tariff on cars (rough calc) so in € terms the UK is a cheaper place to produce than Europe as it stands.
Also as noted on Sky today the car manufacturers told us not joining the € would negatively impact investment. That turned out to be total bollix. Who'd have thoight it ?
Mid Jan for A50 is the rumour.
Renault/Nissan and the other car producers. Fall in £ equal to or greater than WTO tariff on cars (rough calc) so in € terms the UK is a cheaper place to produce than Europe as it stands.
So they might hang on for a bit while our economy is messed up, but I keep hearing that we have a glorious bright economic future ahead of us, so will they still be here when the pound is flying high and the Euro has tanked?
Renault/Nissan and the other car producers. Fall in £ equal to or greater than WTO tariff on cars (rough calc) so in € terms the UK is a cheaper place to produce than Europe as it stands.
So the only upside is that the pound will fall making imports to the UK more expensive driving up inflation etc. If the Euro falls in parallel to the pound then the benifit of the pound fall is a double loss especially if both fall against the USD.
GrahamS - Member
From this story in the Sunderland Echo last Friday.
What is the sample size of that survey?
Who are the sample population?
Is the survey representative?
How many questions asked? One?
GrahamS - Member
The Nissan plant at Sunderland employs 7,000 people and produces 1 in every 3 cars the UK manufactures.
They are doing/selling well.
They produces 1 in 3 cars the UK manufactures.
[b]They fear export tariff ... to where? [/b] EU?
[u]Top 10 Nissan Markets[/u]
[url= http://www.nissan-global.com/EN/NEWS/2016/_STORY/160204-03-e.html ]Nissan Global [/url]
Country Total Sales Market Share
U.S. 1,484,918 8.5%
China* 1,250,073 5.3%
Japan 589,046 11.7%
Mexico 348,941 25.8%
UK 169,247 5.6%
Canada 129,976 6.8%
Russia 128,713 8.0%
France 77,200 3.6%
Germany 74,596 2.2%
United Arab Emirates 66,839 15.9%
GrahamS - Member
From this story in the Sunderland Echo last Friday.
What is the sample size of that survey?
Who are the sample population?
Is the survey representative?
How many questions asked? One?
GrahamS - Member
" ... If there are tax barriers being established on cars, you have to have a commitment for carmakers who export to Europe that there is some kind of compensation."Mr Ghosn told reporters that the Sunderland plant would lose competitiveness if Britain was left dealing with the EU under World Trade Organisation rules - rather than as part of the Single Market - which would effectively add 10% to the cost of a UK-built model.
[b]They fear export tariff ... to where? EU?[/b]
[url= http://www.nissan-global.com/EN/NEWS/2016/_STORY/160204-03-e.html ]Nissan Global - Top 10 Nissan Markets[/url]
Country --- Total Sales -- Market Share
U.S. --- 1,484,918 ---- 8.5%
China* --- 1,250,073 ---- 5.3%
Japan --- 589,046 ------ 11.7%
Mexico --- 348,941 ------ 25.8%
UK --- 169,247 ------ 5.6%
Canada --- 129,976 ------ 6.8%
Russia --- 128,713 ------ 8.0%
France --- 77,200 ------- 3.6%
Germany --- 74,596 ------- 2.2%
UAE --- 66,839 ------- 15.9%
Political? You decide.
Did anyone say they feared an export tarrif?
France 77,200 3.6%
Germany 74,596 2.2%
So nearly as many cars to 2 EU countries as the UK buys
France 607,173 26.4%
Brazil 181,504 7.3%
Germany 177,787 5.2%
Turkey 162,175 16.8%
Spain 156,108 13.1%
Italy 154,730 9.1%
United Kingdom 128,269 4.3%
Russia 120,411 7.5%
Algeria 90,182 35.6%
Belgium+Luxembourg 82,374 13.3%
The renault figures are more interesting though - so if you were Nissan with a Strategic Partnership and had to decide where a new model was build which would you pic? One with 100% free movement of goods and people or one without? For the UK to compete it would need to be significantly cheaper.
They fear export tariff ... to where? EU?
The UK will start from square 1 post Brexit with no deals with any country in the world. The EU has many deals already in existance that the UK currently takes advantage of.
From a business perspective the UK represents risk, the EU more certainty.
People are not talking about companies upping and leaving but more a choice about where a new model is made. If a model is sent to another factory part of the UK plant will die off or not be reused. That impacts on the supply chain etc and makes it harder to get the next new model.
What is the sample size of that survey?
Who are the sample population?
Is the survey representative?
How many questions asked? One?
1) Says on it, 5527 votes.
2) Readers of the Sunderland Echo?
3) I'd imagine it is representative of the thoughts of people reading that story in the Sunderland Echo who decided to click on the online poll.
4) Yep one, same as the referendum. Not really enough for a proper answer is it?
They are doing/selling well.
Yes they must have rallied impressively given that just 3 hours ago you were saying they were "a brand on the way out" and you didn't expect the to survive. 😆
They fear export tariff ... to where? EU?
Yes, the EU.
[url= http://www.smmt.co.uk/2016/01/best-year-in-a-decade-for-british-car-manufacturing-as-exports-reach-record-high/ ]77.3% of cars built in the UK are for export.
And 57.5% of all UK car exports go to Europe.[/url]
Nearly. Just nearly and that is two EU countries combined yet they are still less than UK.mikewsmith - Member
France 77,200 3.6%
Germany 74,596 2.2%
So nearly as many cars to 2 EU countries as the UK buys
Renault is not built in Sunderland so no impact apart from political. We are talking about Nissan brand. Renault main market is in EU so that's that.The renault figures are more interesting though - so if you were Nissan with a Strategic Partnership and had to decide where a new model was build which would you pic
There is always the first step in everything so why so concern?The UK will start from square 1 post Brexit with no deals with any country in the world.
New model? Isn't the Sunderland plant the flagship high technology considered the best in Europe? So they cannot make the next model? I sense someone playing politics here.People are not talking about companies upping and leaving but more a choice about where a new model is made. If a model is sent to another factory part of the UK plant will die off or not be reused. That impacts on the supply chain etc and makes it harder to get the next new model.
GrahamS - Member
What is the sample size of that survey?
Who are the sample population?
Is the survey representative?
How many questions asked? One?
1) Says on it, 5527 votes.
Meaningless I can even vote if I want from Newcastle.
2) Readers of the Sunderland Echo?
Nobody knows. Do they?
I can read newspaper all over the world.
3) I'd imagine it is representative of the thoughts of people reading that story in the Sunderland Echo who decided to click on the online poll.
Meaningless because there is no guarantee of a way to prevent someone rigging the survey. You kidding? Online poll? Even me mate John and Dave can vote from London.
You got that right.4) Yep one, same as the referendum. Not really enough for a proper answer is it?
Impressive for Nissan themselves but by comparison to other Japanese car brands they are pale in comparison. We laugh at you in the Far East for driving a Nissan unless it is a GTR. I hardly see Nissan in South East Asia. Hardly a Japanese car that worth shouting by comparison to other Japanese car brands.Yes they must have rallied impressively given that just 3 hours ago you were saying they were "a brand on the way out" and you didn't expect the to survive.
Yes, the EU.
77.3% of cars built in the UK are for export.
They will continue to export from UK regardless because of their investments.
And 57.5% of all UK car exports go to Europe.
[b]What percentage is that for Nissan? That is not even Nissan's number. [/b]
That is the % of the entire UK car industry and most other manufactures do not even start to politicise like Nissan. Nissan is playing politics because of their Renault/French master.
So they sell more in Europe than the UK. That was easy the market within the EU is bigger than the one in the UK. Always good when people bring the facts the break their argument.
Why the concearn about going [b]BACK[/b] to a point that we have spent decade moving forward from. The UK has trade deals that are in place, after A50 there will be no deals apart from what is in place as part of the A50 negotiations (the ones that people are trying to rush and dump everything during).
So yes the UK will be at a disadvantage for the period post A50/Brexit.
If I wanted to make cars and ship them out and had a choice it would be from the EU as the UK market is [b]SMALLER[/b] For the future look at things like the Renault Traffic an that is the same as the Nissan one apart from a few bits, could make both in 1 factory and just ship the badges over.
Nissan is playing politics because of their Renault/French master.
Partnership not master. They are not playing games they are running a massive company that has to work with and despite the actions of governments around the world and will in the end do what is best for them.
A few facts:
80% of Nissan Sunderland's annual 500'000 build goes to the EU.
Nissan and Renault are an alliance, they each hold shares in the other.
All future models will be common platform. Juke/Captur. Micra/Clio. Qashqai/Kadja.
Renault have a lot of spare capacity.
Carlos Ghosn is ruthless, even closing Nissan plants in their own home country when he first took over.
There's nothing political about saying 10% on the cost of your product will make it uncompetitive.
He's re-iterating exactly what was said pre-referendum, the majority of large UK based businesses predicted Brexit would be 'a very bad thing for business'. You can't cry foul if that turns out to be the case and they don't play along with the madness.
