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fourbanger hits the nail squarely on the head
x100 when it comes to the upcoming USA administration
fourbanger you need to see past the European politics and understand Europe is being swept steadily towards a precipice. I am game on for calling their bluff and focusing the vast majority of our trade negotiations globally - our trade is 65/35 non-EU and we should aim to get that to 80% imo. Any negotiation is two way, there is a long list of countries who would love a trade deal with the UK for mutual benefit.
If the EU is being pushed toward the precipice it's because of countries like UK who refuse to adhere to the philosophy of the EU and are only interested in themselves rather than building a larger and ultimately stronger union. In a why should we pay into a scheme that's likely to make eastern Europe wealthier and provide us with a larger customer base in the future type of way.
He is the epitome of everything thats wrong with modern labour.
Indeed, take this clip
0 - 01:30: a simple factual account of the different regional dynamics between the N and S and an recognition that FoM (of workers) might have both a positive and a more complex and possibly negative impacts on different regions at the same time
03:20-03:40: for once an honest representation of what the BoE said not the false regurgitation favoured by the Brexshiteers
Full interview - considered, informed, balanced and honest - "everything that is wrong with" etc...... 😯
You can't do anything in politics unless you are elected
Tell that to Rupert Murdoch, Aaron Banks, arguably Daniel Hannan and Nigel Farage. They've successfully trashed Britain without being elected - or in the case of Hannan and Farage being elected to a body they claim is i democratic and they has had no positive contribution to.
Bunch of rich folks playing with other people's lives.
Ya, I think EU is trying to indirectly embargo UK because UK has voted out.
What are the consequences if UK simply ignore the EU rules to trade etc?
How do EU enforce their rules?
Gunboat diplomacy was used in the previous centuries but since EU do not have that military power yet, does that mean they are trying urgently to form one now because of UK?
there's this thing called customs. you want goods to go in or out, it goes ( or doesn't ) on the say so of the customs officials.
Del - Member
there's this thing called customs. you want goods to go in or out, it goes ( or doesn't ) on the say so of the customs officials.
Yes we have custom but then I also know both sides can custom the hell out of each other so it becomes a battle of wit etc then the norm.
What if all those rules are exhausted what can EU do? I know some of the EU supporters will say that UK want EU more than EU want UK etc so saying the EU can encircle UK etc so UK need to bow etc ...
So [b]utterly predictable[/b] that when we choose to leave the EU, the EU will be blamed for treating us as if we're no longer in the EU.
And I'd like to laugh about the military ideas being spouted above, but can't really.
i appreciate this is probably business as usual but i'm afraid i don't understand what you are asking.
edit ^ @ chewy
Del - Member
i appreciate this is probably business as usual but i'm afraid i don't understand what you are asking.
I mean what if someone breaks the rules what can EU do?
Custom can be by pass if there is a wish.
kelvin - MemberSo utterly predictable that when we choose to leave the EU, the EU will be blamed for treating us as if we're no longer in the EU.
And I'd like to laugh about the military ideas being spouted above, but can't really.
As EU system grows larger that is exactly what they are doing to their surrounding countries by forcing them to comply.
You are a joke aren't you without military strength you have No country.
well yes, that is obviously true, and of course there are people who make money this way, but it's not really the basis for running an economy.
Custom can be by pass if there is a wish.
Someone has been watching too much Poldark.
Del - Member
well yes, that is obviously true, and of course there are people who make money this way, but it's not really the basis for running an economy.
Yes, agree it is not a way of running an economy but it is still a way ... it might be hard at first but once it becomes the norm nobody gives a monkey.
kelvin - Member
Custom can be by pass if there is a wish.
Someone has been watching too much Poldark.
Naahhh ... He is a small timer. 😆
He is ranked so low in the scale he cannot even be used as an example for comparison. 😆
you seem to be advocating an anarchic approach to business and interaction with other nation states. the bins don't get emptied that way.
Del - Member
you seem to be advocating an anarchic approach to business and interaction with other nation states. the bins don't get emptied that way.
No, no certainly not because there must be rules.
The hint is in the word "norm".
ah. i think i see. you can have other rules.
@br yes I would agree there will be some difficulties ahead, the truely worthwhile always seems impossible / difficult at first.
More than one press piece saying the EU need to be careful about too much posturing as it's quite likely to result in a FU attitude from UK consumers
@captain the EU is heading for the precipice due to its own incompetence and member states simply ignoring the rules and the EU turning a blind eye whether thats border control (Dublin agreement), Greek borrowing or farm animal welfare in Poland etc
@igm MEPs are elected to represent their views, Hannah and Farage do exactly that and Banks supports a UK political party with 13% of the vote. Murdoch .. people assign him too much power, most people don't buy a paper of even watch the news more than once in a blue moon.
Del - Member
ah. i think i see. you can have other rules.
No, you don't have to have other rules so depending on how the rules are enforced or used the rules can be changed, bent or rules created on top of rules. 😛
More than one press piece saying the EU need to be careful about too much posturing as it's quite likely to result in a FU attitude from UK consumers
That'd be an interesting read. Have you got the links?
Plenty of stuff in general on Brexit Central website and facebook, listen to what the "other side" have to say
http://reaction.life/eu-rudeness-may-will-encourage-britain-say-get-stuffed/
jambalaya - MemberPlenty of stuff in general on Brexit Central website and facebook, listen to what the "other side" have to say
http://reaction.life/eu-rudeness-may-will-encourage-britain-say-get-stuffed/
Would you agree that it's slightly biased and has it's own slight anti EU agenda then?
😆
EDIT: We'll stick two fingers up at you, wait for the reaction (which we don't like) and then call for sticking two fingers up at you with justification because you don't know how to behave!!
😆 😆 😆
Thing is though, this 'eu rudeness will encourage Britain to say 'get stuffed'' attitude is like something straight out of the daily express comments..
The eu as a whole has been fairly constrained in its attitude to all this, although im sure all the member states are quietly wondering what the hell we are playing at.
Fact is we are bargaining from a position of weakness, and to walk away whilst telling the EU to get stuffed is like cutting our noses of to spite our faces.
If we play nice we might get a deal that puts us in a worse position than we are now, but if we rip up our agreements and commitments then they have every reason to penalise us in negotiations.
And in future WTO negotiations, countries will remember that we don't play nice or honour commitments which will really damage our future negotiation potential...It's a really short sighted way of thinking.
Would you go into business with someone that you know has a history of short changing thier partners in previous ventures?
Plenty of stuff in general on Brexit Central website and facebook, listen to what the "other side" have to say
Anyine not interested in what "the other side" have to say, would have long ago decided to ignore this thread.
Some of us are still hoping for a bit more joined up thinking in what we read… not more of the same.
More than one press piece saying the EU need to be careful about too much posturing as it's quite likely to result in a FU attitude from UK consumers
That'd be an interesting read. Have you got the links?
Not likely that the reading exists. It's an interesting and important idea though.
Stands to reason that poor relations, both real at governmental levels and perceived in the media, between rEU and UK could further hit trade, in both directions. If you see this as purely a risk to rEU exporters, and not UK ones, then you've failed at the joined up thinking again.
Naill Ferguson - Historian and Scot from Stanford University and visiting fellow at Harvard. Sums up my Brexit views entirely (EU, borders, currency etc). First 4min 25 or listen to whole thing 10min 40
captainsasquatch - Member
jambalaya - Member
Plenty of stuff in general on Brexit Central website and facebook, listen to what the "other side" have to say
> http://reaction.life/eu-rudeness-may-will-encourage-britain-say-get-stuffed/
Would you agree that it's slightly biased and has it's own slight anti EU agenda then?EDIT: We'll stick two fingers up at you, wait for the reaction (which we don't like) and then call for sticking two fingers up at you with justification because you don't know how to behave!!
Not biased at all.
EU is just a bureaucratic system so why does a system try to be rude to a PM when individual nation heads do not?
Does that means it's time to play smash the EU system ... 😛
further hit trade, in both directions though.
It will hit trade in both directions, but they are 26 and we are 1. Thay can absorb the hit between them relatively easily, we on the other hand will have to raise taxes and further cut public spending when we haven't really recovered from our last financial crisis. It might sting the EU, but it will knock us onto our backs.
mattyfez - Member
further hit trade, in both directions though.
It will hit trade in both directions, but they are 26 and we are 1. Thay can absorb the hit between them relatively easily, we on the other hand will have to raise taxes and further cut public spending when we haven't really recovered from our last financial crisis. It might sting the EU, but it will knock us onto our backs.
Ya, there are 26 of them but are they all 26 healthy individuals that is the question.
Who are the healthy ones amongst the 26 economically?
Not biased at all.
Good point well made. I mean if chewkw says it's unbiased, it must be unbiased. As one of the more rational and well thought posters on the forum it's hard to ignore the solid and logical opinion of chewkw. I apologise unreservedly for even hinting that this apparent EU hating, mainstream press article is anything else but unbiased.
Ya, there are 26 of them but are they all 26 healthy individuals that is the question.
You really don't understand the EU, do you?
Should we get rid of weaker contributors to this thread? Those who appear to add nothing but drivel and are clearly not healthy contributors.
It might become a bit one sided then though.
captainsasquatch - Member
Not biased at all.
Good point well made. I mean if chewkw says it's unbiased, it must be unbiased.
It's about rudeness. It is rude to ignore the head of state is it not no matter how you dislike him/her.
You really don't understand the EU, do you?
EU works as a unit by complying with their rules that I understand very well.
But if their own individual nations want to break the rules to trade with us what can the EU system do? Punish them? How?
That is my question.
The concept of EU by assuming that all member states behave like a unit is a flaw one if you cannot even understand such simple basic.Should we get rid of weaker contributors to this thread? Those who appear to add nothing but drivel and are clearly not healthy contributors.
EU system is a major flaw.
Who are the healthy ones amongst the 26 economically?
Relatively speaking I'd hazard we are one of them, but there are more 'healthy' ones who still outnumber us, and they are it seems at the moment entertaining our attitude conditionally, if we stop playing ball, then they (and I would too in their position) give the UK a lot more to be worried about than not being invited to a dinner party.
Sorry double poster.
More than one press piece saying the EU need to be careful about too much posturing as it's quite likely to result in a FU attitude from UK consumers
I don't think UK consumers give a stuff about anything other than the cheapest most convenient route to their toys which is exactly the opposite of what they will now get.
The concept of EU by assuming that all member states behave like a unit is a flaw one if you cannot even understand such simple basic.
Why? Give me a single example where this is the case and the negative effect.
mattyfez - Member
Who are the healthy ones amongst the 26 economically?
Relatively speaking I'd hazard we are one of them, but there are more 'healthy' ones who still outnumber us, and they are it seems at the moment entertaining our attitude conditionally, if we stop playing ball, then they (and I would too in their position) give the UK a lot more to be worried about than not being invited to a dinner party.
Not necessary better or stronger because that depends on how many mouths the healthy ones need to feed constantly. i.e. the rich ones will have to subsidies or to provide bad debts for the rest of their life with no hope of seeing a return.
captainsasquatch - Member
The concept of EU by assuming that all member states behave like a unit is a flaw one if you cannot even understand such simple basic.Why? Give me a single example where this is the case and the negative effect.
Greece.
It's about rudeness. It is rude to ignore the head of state is it not no matter how you dislike him/her.
The uk said it's leaving, but the UK isn't saying how or why in any rational way, that's pretty damn rude, so if we get a rude response, (I'd argue it's more of an indifferent response than rude).. then we can't really start complaining about rudeness.
Greece lied, that's not an EU flaw, except they didn't dig deep enough and still it's the private sector ensuring that they get their money back that's preventing Greece from getting back on its feet rather than the EU crippling them.
The question still stands.
mattyfez - Member
It's about rudeness. It is rude to ignore the head of state is it not no matter how you dislike him/her.The uk said it's leaving, but the UK isn't saying how or why in any rational way, that's pretty damn rude, so if we get a rude response, (I'd argue it's more of an indifferent response than rude).. then we can't really start complaining about rudeness.
The UK has 43 years of untanglement to do yet they (EU bureaucrats) want UK to response immediately with all plans presented to them?
For those EU bureaucrats to treat a British PM that way is not only rude but also it also shows that it is a system incapable of controlling it's emotion let alone respecting another system. Hence, EU is a dangerous system if grown too large. "The machine is on the move".
Not necessary better or stronger because that depends on how many mouths the healthy ones need to feed constantly. i.e. the rich ones will have to subsidies or to provide bad debts for the rest of their life with no hope of seeing a return.
That is a valid point to an extent, and why the EU needs reform in some areas, turkey is in no way fit to be a member, Greece should not have been allowed in unless there was a solid plan in place to bring them up to standard.
However, we cant infulence the clubs future strategy if we resign because we've has a hissy fit.
captainsasquatch - Member
Greece lied, that's not an EU flaw, except they didn't dig deep enough and still it's the private sector ensuring that they get their money back that's preventing Greece from getting back on its feet rather than the EU crippling them.
The question still stands.
That's a convenient way to blame the Greeks innit. 😛
If EU system is so perfect then why didn't they noticed all the "lied" long time ago.
The premise of a bureaucratic system is to ensure transparency in all aspect of dealings and to enforce them with transparent rule set.
For EU to not see Greek bending the rules can only means two things:
1. The system is not transparent.
2. The system is highly corrupted.
Both of which render the entire EU system flawed if not outright dangerous.
We have a lot of UKIP MEPs who hardly ever seem to do thier jobs, and then we get all upset when we don't get taken seriously. The classic is farage and the fisheries, the very occasional meeting he bothered to attend he did nothing constructive, and mainly insulted his counterparts..
Then he pronounces that we are better off out of the EU... his behaviour beggars belief.
mattyfez - Member
That is a valid point to an extent, and why the EU needs reform in some areas, turkey is in no way fit to be a member, Greece should not have been allowed in unless there was a solid plan in place to bring them up to standard.However, we cant infulence the clubs future strategy if we resign because we've has a hissy fit.
No you can't influence the EU system.
The assumption that one can influence a mega a Bureaucratic System is completely naive which I have been saying all this time.
You can only smash the system to pieces then re-do or re-create it from zero again but this time make sure it is not the tail wagging the dog. i.e. it is a support system so should never raise above that.
For EU to not see Greek bending the rules can only means two things:1. The system is not transparent.
2. The system is highly corrupted.
Both of which render the entire EU system flawed if not outright dangerous.
But your claim of the flawed system was that:
The concept of EU by assuming that all member states behave like a unit is a flaw one if you cannot even understand such simple basic.
Even Teresa Maybe isn't transparent, yet you hold her up as a hero in the Brexshit world that is being unleashed on us. I'm sure you'll be able to justify that though. #Continuity.
It's politics and politics at all levels are corrupt.
I'm still looking for a question to be answered. You're correct that the EU should have looked further into Greece, but shit happens. It's dealt with. You still seem happy to ignore the fact that the Greek situation could have resolved years ago if it weren't for the private finance houses who are bleeding Greece dry. Again that is not an EU problem.
You seem happy to blame the EU for problems created by others. Your rationale doesn't stand up to scrutiny.
At least Jambalay will post up the guff he gets his ideas from. 😆
Rachel.
Jamba - Chewkw seems to be another one for your little Walter Mitty club. Brexy fantasist.
The assumption that one can influence a mega a Bureaucratic System is completely naive which I have been saying all this time.
I disagree completely, we have MEPs paid by the the tax payer for precisely that purpose. These people are simply not doing what they are paid for, that's a UK problem, not an EU one. They are not competently arguing the UK interest on the EU Stage, and They are the one's shouting the loudest about how terrible the EU is, how would they even know, they dont make themselves involved, and then say the UK is ignored... they'd actualy have to start doing their jobs first to be qualified to say say something like that.
captainsasquatch - Member
Even Teresa Maybe isn't transparent, yet you hold her up as a hero in the Brexshit world that is being unleashed on us. I'm sure you'll be able to justify that though. #Continuity.
It's politics and politics at all levels are corrupt.
Oh c'mon PM May has just been appointed yet you have already accused her of non-transparent? Her PM seat is not even warm yet.
You seem happy to blame the EU for problems created by others. Your rationale doesn't stand up to scrutiny.Rachel.
EU system is a system that see itself fit to "govern" yet they are cannot see the mess that they have created along the way. Now they are trying to blame others? Hellooo!
Remember we are talking about nations that is not transparent ... we are not talking about a small one person business here. For the EU System to not see the rules bending calls into serious doubt their ability as a system.
The EU System Must be dismantled.
At least Jambalay will post up the guff he gets his ideas from.
Yes, that is who he is. He is Very good.
Me, I am just being me ... 
p/s: got to go now ... debate with you lot later.
Need to do Xmas shopping ...
Xmas shopping
Wealthy man
The EU System Must be dismantled.
Sigh... It's the most democratic humane and fair 'super power' in the history of humanity. It really is a trail blazer in terms of forward thinking.
I don't think anyone's arguing that it works perfectly, but it's not that bad when you consider even recent history.
It needs reform, of course, everything can be improved, but you can't improve something by throwing it into the dustbin.
The assumption that one can influence a mega a Bureaucratic System is completely naive which I have been saying all this time.
The assumption that there is some bureaucratic system that has a major influence over our lives is equally naive although lots of people swallow it - bogey men are delicious in many quarters
Oh c'mon PM May has just been appointed yet you have already accused her of non-transparent? Her PM seat is not even warm yet.
You can't pick and choose who is or isn't transparent. You can't even defend her in a Trunp like way by say that she's unaccustomed to the political ways of the world. Think about it. What a rubbish response.
EU system is a system that see itself fit to "govern" yet they are cannot see the mess that they have created along the way. Now they are trying to blame others? Hellooo!
Elaborate with non biased citation as I think that's all in you head. I see many positive things which outweigh the negatives by ten fold. I could, of course, bury my head in the sand an focus on a couple of minor points though, but I don't as I see a greater good.
Need to do Xmas shopping ...
Good, being stuck inside has affected your thinking. 😛
Get out there, meet real people, talk to them and educate yourself.
tmh why not take 10-15 mins to listen to Burnham and Ferguson (just first 4:30 if you wish)
EU as "humane superpower" ?
It's meddling in foreign affairs is largely responsible imo for the war in Ukraine and it certainly did not cover itself in glory over the Balkans either. It's handling of the Mediterranean migrant crises has been a humatitarian disaster, remember it was the EU which withdrew support for the naval operation and forced the Italians to get on with it largely alone. More people died in 2016 than in 2015 or any year before. The EU's demands for refugee quotas have simply been ignored. The EU's only two members with international military capability are the UK and France, as such the EU should just "butt out" of any notion of influence. Russia has an economy the size of Australia's but it's a superpower due to its military.
I did listen to Burnham - he got the BoE analysis of the impact of immigration on wages broadly correct which was interesting. He also reminded exactly why new labour had time in power 😉 Will try Ferguson but have juts got flute out after 5 years and trying family carols - very von Trapp!! I had forgotten how tiring playing can be - even Frosty the Snowman at every increasing speed - my fingers are shot. Still nice to still (just be able to play!)
I make no defence of the EU, UK, UN, US etc when it comes to foreign policy but hardly see that as a reason to make trade more challenging and inward investment in the UK lower. That is bonkers.
Excellent. That needs a photo inc a Christmas jumper 🙂
Increased GDP stats aren't helping the vast majority are they, that's his point ? It's ok on foreign policy Junker wants an EU army 😯
Indeed - forgotten how much fun, apart from those listening!
GDP is simply one measure, in itself it doesnt do anything.
There are many things wrong with EU, but that doesn't make Brexshit a good idea
I think some people have conveniently forgotten that the EU played no role in invading Iraq and that was the start of the conflicts that have produced the refugees. ISIS was born of the vacuum Saddam left. The Balkan conflict was not started by the EU but Germany and France had major roles in damage limitation and a return to relative normality - a significantly better outcome than where the UK and US have meddled.
Now consider the diplomatic successes of the last few decades. The wall coming down and the end of the soviet block was mainly Reagan, Gorbachev and Kohl - GB spectated. The existence of the EU and the desire of soviet block peoples to join it made the soviet occupations unsustainable.
EU blue helmets have been deployed in a list of countries too long to list here from memory - with positive results. Whilst the US, UK and Russia go in throwing things the EU forces work on keeping the belligerents apart.
It needs reform, of course, everything can be improved, but you can't improve something by throwing it into the dustbin.
Hear hear. I'm deeply saddened when I think of the advances that have been made in Europe since my parents were caught up in the last massive conflict and that have enables me to live in peace, that some wish to dismantle the structures that strive to keep us unified and maintain that peace.
More people died in 2016 than in 2015 or any year before.
Is that total mortality or deaths in conflict?
It's ok on foreign policy Junker wants an EU army
But don't tell me the UK could have used it's veto... and does Junker actually have the power to summon an EU army or would he need the consent of the member states to do that (so only if they wanted to pool their defensive resources with other nations in some coordinated way)
and for the points about it being rude to snub May, she has declared she will start a process of leaving, refuses to outline any plans, her ministers say the plans won't be finished in time for parliament to read them but she will go on regardless. Add in the UK loud mouths are complaining that the EU is making things very difficult on purpose when in reality they are doing what is required - getting the best deal for the EU.
I assume all of you will head into work in the new year and demand a pay cut as otherwise your company will just be pandering to it's employees.
and for the points about it being rude to snub May...
I recall reading before the referendum that EU member states excluding the one deciding to leave would collectively discuss terms for that states departure. So no surprise there - and it seems perfectly logical.
Your rationale doesn't stand up to scrutiny.
'rationale'?
Jamba - Chewkw seems to be another one for your little Walter Mitty club. Brexy fantasist.
While you're here ninfan, could you do me a favour and answer a [url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/eu-referendum-are-you-in-or-out/page/487#post-8128184 ]question [/url]I asked a couple of weeks ago?
Muchas gracias.
@Edukator the majority of refugees have little or nothing to do with Iraq or indeed Syria, the toppling of Gadaffi (by UK and France) has created the problem in Libya and the route up from sub-Saharan Africa. There was a programme on BBC last week about the largest single boat tragedy this year (500 drowned), the boat set off from Egypt. The problem isn't the conflicts in the Middle East it's the fiasco in Europe which is creating the space for the people movers to exploit.
@slow 2015/16 I meant deaths on the Med
@mike We have outlined our plans and if you listen to what's being said they are quite clear. Why would we do any more than that when the EU has repeatedly said no discussions till A50 ? No discussions means no statements of any detail.
Freedom to negotiate our own trade deals = no customs union
No freedom movement
Desire to have tariff free trade but sector specific and definitely not THE single market as that's too restrictive/generous to the EU (eg fisheries)
All EU citizens have the right to remain if UK citizens are granted the same
@Edukator the majority of refugees have little or nothing to do with Iraq or indeed Syria, the toppling of Gadaffi (by UK and France) has created the problem in Libya and the route up from sub-Saharan Africa. There was a programme on BBC last week about the largest single boat tragedy this year (500 drowned), the boat set off from Egypt. The problem isn't the conflicts in the Middle East it's the fiasco in Europe which is creating the space for the people movers to exploit.
Does this include or exclude the Africans who came to Europe from Nigeria and used Libya as an exit point?
"The problem isn't the Middle East it's the fiasco in Europe." And you still expect to be taken seriously.
[b]Freedom to negotiate our own trade deals = no customs union
No freedom movement[/b]
Desire to have tariff free trade but sector specific and definitely not THE single market as that's too restrictive/generous to the EU (eg fisheries)
[b]All EU citizens have the right to remain if UK citizens are granted the same[/b]
The latter being free movement of subjects. It's almost like you think that the UK can negotiate from a position of strength. 😐
While you're here ninfan, could you do me a favour and answer a question I asked a couple of weeks ago?
Muchas gracias.
Certainly, must have missed it
[b]You asked: [/b] could you lay out exactly what you want from Brexit?
[b]My answer[/b]: That the UK leaves the European Union
I hope that helps?
jambalaya you were one of the main reasons I basically stopped posting on this site. I see you're still talking absolute drivel (that's me being polite). *sigh*
.@Edukator the majority of refugees have little or nothing to do with Iraq or indeed Syria, the toppling of Gadaffi (by UK and France) has created the problem in Libya and the route up from sub-Saharan Africa
In this order: Syria, Afghanistan and Iraq. (Somalia is up there too)
Plenty of sources for that. The numbers are
staggering.
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34131911 ]beebs numbers[/url]
.The problem isn't the conflicts in the Middle East it's the fiasco in Europe which is creating the space for the people movers to exploit
That's a pretty wretched and incorrect statement. You are aware of cause and effect?
Desire to have tariff free trade but sector specific and definitely not THE single market as that's too restrictive/generous to the EU (eg fisheries)
Meanwhile in the real world
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/jun/28/british-fishermen-warned-brexit-will-not-mean-greater-catches?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
Thing is - when is the good news do??
Due.
My answer: That the UK leaves the European Union
Well that's probably abourt as detailed and committed we'll get from you, Larry and Moe did at least expand a little more.
You see, I just wanted a response at this point in time to go back to and see how much your arguments change to fit in with your desire.
The leave camp will claim any positive as a victory whther it is connected to the leave campaign or not.
The economy will recover and exports will reach new markets, but we will have lost a lot of friends and business partners and all because you want the UK to leave the EU.
You can't elaborate on that because you don't know what it is that you want, but you will try and claim a victory.
We have Jamba constantly presenting his own little vision and erroneous fact.
Ranting chewkw who hasn't a clue aht he wants, except attention.
And ninfan posting the bizarrest videos to support a leave at any cost attitude.
The leave camp is well represented, I'll give you that. 😛
Go you!
I think people are getting the Geneva convention and the EU confused. The Eu is very rich compared to the country's which migrants come from. They want to come to Europe as they will have a better life here and opportunities they could never get at home. They are difficult to deal with due to the Geneva convention and the fact that western countries decided they never again wanted to repeat the horrors of the Second World War. We cannot just send them back and they will keep on coming even if we leave the EU. It is much harder to get to the UK than the rest of Europe hence the camps in Calais.
We will need our own bureaucrats to replace the EU ones.
We will need to make compromises and make decisions that are not in our interests such as Hinkley point to keep our partners happy.
Leaving will not cover up the holes in Neo liberal economic policy that I see as the reason we are in this mess. In fact it will probably make it a whole lot worse as we whore ourselves to make us more attractive to tax avoiders, I mean global corporations. Who want all the benefits our operating in a stable well functioning political economic system without wanting to pay for it.
So we may have a better country in the future but it will be nothing to do with Brexit and everything to do with realizing that we have to sort our problems out and not blame it on some bogeyman who may be the EU, Russia or immigration.
jambalaya you were one of the main reasons I basically stopped posting on this site. I see you're still talking absolute drivel (that's me being polite). *sigh*
Don't stop posting. It seems it's even more important that liars are challenged and will become more so.
@grum Please watch the Niall Fergusen video, the first 4 min 30 at least. Don't read what I post then, how many of Junky's posts do you think I read ? I have emails from other members saying they don't understand how I can tolerate the abuse but frankly I don't even know aboit it as I don't read it. Just scroll on by.
GEDA the ageneva convention says you must claim Asylum in the first safe country you get to. That is simply ignored today. Ditto most of the EU's Dublin accord, namely refugees/asylum seekers must be registered in the first EU country they land in and if their application ( in another country) is rejected they are to be returned to that first EU country. What this means in practice is that countries avoid registering people (at all costs). How do all these sub-Saharan migrants end up in France ? It's because everyone ignores the rules and agreements and hopes the people just move on somewhere else. There are 50 migrants a day arriving in Paris having travelled unimpeded through the Schengen area many without any ID (having no ID means it's very difficult to deport you which is very difficult even with ID)
Fourbanger if you can't handle the discussion then that's your choice. Maybe you shouod start a Remainers only thread. STW was 80% Remain on the front page poll so it's not representative of the country. Whatever we might like to think riding what are pretty expensive bikes (in many vases worth more than our cars) is a solidly middle class activity and that group voted largely remain. Older people (not riding) and working class people (mtb an unaffordable luxury) voted Leave. STW is not representative on this issue.
@rone when is the good news do due, I am up for a party 8)
There has been quite a lot of good news in the last 3 months. However doom and gloom makes for better ad revenue via clickbait headlines.
There has been quite a lot of good news in the last 3 months. However doom and gloom makes for better ad revenue via clickbait headlines.
Interestingly most of the doom and gloom has come to light as being lies, who'd've thunk that immigration wasn't such a big problem (apart from the enlightened).
I agree with Jambalaya, lots of good news in last 3 months.
Brexit goes 1 step forward and then 2 steps back.
Even Farage has lost interest and is busy polishing his ego in the States.
@slow 2015/16 I meant deaths on the Med
Ah, my error. I didn't read it properly.