[Closed] EU Referendum - are you in or out?

captainsasquatch - Member
Jambalaya, chewkw and ninfan, could you lay out exactly what you want from Brexit?

1. [b]Peace of mind.[/b]

2. [b]Free from EU bureaucratic intervention.[/b]

3. [b]Happiness[/b] - you can be poor still be happy you know.

4. [b]"Scott Tenorman Must Die"[/b] (South Park, Season number: 5, Episode number: 4, Air date: July 11, 2001) - This is the funniest episode which they should air every year tbh.

Jambalaya and Ninfan are much more coherent & polite in their response to you lot than I do, so I shall only speak for myself so here goes ...

1. Peace of mind.
2. Free from EU bureaucratic intervention.
3. Happiness - you can be poor still be happy you know.
4. "Scott Tenorman Must Die" (South Park, Season number: 5, Episode number: 4, Air date: July 11, 2001)

Ok I'm gonna bite (nowt on telly nursing a hangovet) Chewkw what makes you happy?

I know I shouldn't, but I'll bite too...

1. Peace of mind.

2. Free from EU bureaucratic intervention.

3. Happiness - you can be poor still be happy you know.

4. "Scott Tenorman Must Die" (South Park, Season number: 5, Episode number: 4, Air date: July 11, 2001) - This is the funniest episode which they should air every year tbh.

2. You'll be lucky, in,or out of the EU we will be part of a lot of its bureaucracy
All others are available inside the EU, but with greater job security and prosperity (even for the poor).

Welcome to the remain side chewkw 😉

We have a funny way of showing it then.

Right now we look insular and isolationist.

Leave said all the way thorough we wanted global trade deals and a fair immigration system open equally to all. Mrs May has made it clear it's our desire to have a free trade deal with Europe and that all existing EU citizens are welcome to stay (subject to same treatment from the EU)

17.5m hasn't gone to 100k. Did you watch th Newsnight piece from Middlesborough

I've been waiting to see the whole Corbyn / Sky interview, he has said Labour will seek an amendment on workers rights, environmental legislation and access to single market but will not block A50. This makes no sense as access to single market may only be available if we remain a member. I believe the judgement may not be handed down till January.

@captain I have always been clear

Exit from EU membership
No budget contributions
No freedom of movement
Complete freedom to negotiate global trade deals

That means leaving the single market and the customs union.

I'd support UK joining specific programmes like Erasmus (£20m pa I believe), I am not fussed about free trade with Europe and I wouldn't pay anything for it and believe EU should pay us for such access.

I always struggle with the term poor, if you can provide food, shelter, security for your family and your children can access education up to and including a degree then I think you are not poor (assuming debt is manageable (mortgage student loans) if you can not access or provide one of those things then I would suggest you are poor - quality of life and being poor are often confused. Sour chewkw which of these four things are you prepared to give up to be outside yhe EU?

oldmanmtb - Member
Ok I'm gonna bite (nowt on telly nursing a hangovet) Chewkw what makes you happy?

igm - Member
2. You'll be lucky, in,or out of the EU we will be part of a lot of its bureaucracy

All others are available inside the EU, but with greater job security and prosperity (even for the poor).

Welcome to the remain side chewkw

Jamba - don't respond like that - you'll make me think I'm managing to wind you up 😉

But I think we are agreed that while significant, the drop in support for Brexit is not all the way to 100k. Not yet anyway.

@captain I have always been clear

Exit from EU membership
No budget contributions
No freedom of movement
Complete freedom to negotiate global trade deals

That means leaving the single market and the customs union.

I'd support UK joining specific programmes like Erasmus (£20m pa I believe), I am not fussed about free trade with Europe and I wouldn't pay anything for it and believe EU should pay us for such access.

Or more to the point welcome to the changing world.

Ok fair enough, agreed, come and join us in the changing world, don't try and cling to the past Chewkw.

There are many levels of bureaucracy but getting rid of the larger EU one is a start. We shall deal with the rest as we go along.

oldmanmtb - Member
I always struggle with the term poor, if you can provide food, shelter, security for your family and your children can access education up to and including a degree then I think you are not poor (assuming debt is manageable (mortgage student loans) if you can not access or provide one of those things then I would suggest you are poor - quality of life and being poor are often confused.[b] Sour chewkw which of these four things are you prepared to give up to be outside yhe EU? [/b]

I am amongst the lucky one by comparison but that does not mean I sympathise with the entire world.

I would rather live a simple life outside or EU with happiness for that I am willing to give them ALL up.

However, in reality that is not possible because the tentacles of the EU bureaucrats and their ideology are spreading like parasite. They will search for the peace then destroy the peace in order to justify their existence.

p/s: I definitely Cannot provide two out of your four conditions above ... at the moment. See if I can in five years time.

I like a changing world I always prosper during chaos and I think leaving the EU is likley to present me, my kids and my business some great opportunities to expand and become more profitable- however I am also wise enough to know that capitalism (capitalising) always means taking wealth and therfore security from the less advantaged (both business and personal) and this new world that the Boris and the boys are creating is going to produce opportunity and misery in equal measure for each end of society - and me I will do everything in my power to ensure me and my family prosper and try to remain a responsible capitalist (if such a thing exists) but when you start pushing people like me into the margins and getting us to reappraise our approach to business it will not have a positive outcome.

Where do you live Chewkw? I live in France, I have dual nationality but I don't have UK voting rights. I avoid using "we" when speaking in favour of remain. I'm curious as to where this ultra-nationalism of yours comes from.

Jamba has been open about his £10 Pom background and sometimes expat existence. C'est Chris is a French expat, MSP and others live in Germany. Several contributors are married to or living with first or second generation immigrants.

So in the interests of clarity, where are you from and which passports do you hold?

Edukator - Reformed Troll
I'm curious as to where this ultra-nationalism of yours comes from.

What is right, right. Wrong, wrong ... I decide for myself.

EU bureaucratic system is totally impractical in the grand scheme of things.

So in the interests of clarity, where are you from and which passports do you hold?

Did Chewkw actually say he was willing to give up food, shelter, security for his family and access to education for any children he has (is Chewkw a he? I'm assuming) in order to leave the EU?

I suppose I shouldn't be surprised. I don't think Jamba for example would go that far though.

Chewkw refuses to answer where he is actually a citizen of. Shocker.

A question to you: Do you treat mankind with equality and fairness?

Not always, though I try. But remember equality doesn't mean I treat all equally.

Do you though? I suspect not from your postings, but you may be a nicer person in real life.

Fancy a pint next time I'm in Toon?

A question to you: Do you treat mankind with equality and fairness?

igm - Member
Did Chewkw actually say he was willing to give up food, shelter, security for his family and access to education for any children he has (is Chewkw a he? I'm assuming) in order to leave the EU?

Yes, but can you? Can you give them up to live a simple happy life?

University education is only necessary if you are thinking of studying science related stuff(my view) while all the social sciences are just over hyped stuff ... overrated.

I mean, hello ... we have interweb nowadays ... if you can master reading then you can learn by yourself.

captainsasquatch - Member

A question to you: Do you treat mankind with equality and fairness?

Let me answer this with a question. If fairness is all important, why do you demand that remainers bow down to those in power?

@captain I think you misunderstood, 100% out. Erasmus is not an EU programme.

Sky piece on Corbyn / Brexit, have been waiting for the whole interview but not seen it yet

http://news.sky.com/story/labour-will-seek-amendment-to-brexit-bill-jeremy-corbyn-says-10681271

Hint: please refer to my trademark phrase for fairness.

@captain I think you misunderstood, 100% out. Erasmus is not an EU programme.

Do you treat mankind with equality and fairness?

I treat others as I'd hope to be treated myself (which includes being called out if I'm out of order).

Chewkw -I think if I give up food and shelter I'm likely to have s simple death not a simple life - no?

On university education... well I'm an educational elitist I'll admit (difficult with my two non-Russell Group degrees) and there are plenty of universities that I don't think are worth it.
But beware - the internet is great for information and occasionally knowledge (some of it is even real and not poorly disguised opinion - see the EU thread on STW and discuss), but it is poor at understanding. So of course are overly taught university courses.

I like to get involved in graduate recruitment at my place (probably should leave it to others these days but it has some enjoyable moments and I have the rank to say I'm doing it). I got fed up of knowledgeable engineering graduates with no understanding, so I threw a question in about organising a trip to the Running of the Bulls at Pamplona. That separated those who could think from those who were taught quick smart. Strangely those who did well on that were those from old school universities no matter what degree they were predicted.

The Erasmus Programme (European Region Action Scheme for the Mobility of University Students[1]) is a European Union (EU) student exchange programme established in 1987Erasmus+, or Erasmus Plus, is the new programme combining all the EU's current schemes for education, training, youth and sport, which was started in January 2014.

Good luck with that Captain. Jamba has been told that over and over again yet he still repeats it. Which is why I consider him dishonest, rather than just having his facts a bit wrong.

Good luck with that Captain. Jamba has been told that over and over again yet he still repeats it. Which is why I consider him dishonest, rather than just having his facts a bit wrong.

PS - chewkw, I think I've seen you refer to being Newcastle based. I'm in town (Toon) fairly frequently and I rarely bite.
Centurion bar at the station maybe? I'll buy the first one.
I am assuming you're not actually a made up character though. I don't buy fictitious people pints.

@captain why don't you list the members of the programme, you'll see my point

EDIT: I'll help you out so DrJ can see too

Europe is such a diverse and exciting region - culturally, historically, politically and geographically - you are bound to find somewhere that suits your learning or training needs. With 33 participating Programme Countries to choose from, you could be travelling to the midnight sun of Iceland or the eastern markets of Istanbul.

Outside of the UK, there are 27 EU countries, including their Overseas Countries and Territories, and five non-EU countries (Iceland, Norway, Turkey, Liechtenstein and the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia) where you can go during your Erasmus+ project. It may also be possible to go to additional ‘Partner Countries’. Further information can be found on Erasmus+ Participating Countries page.

Partner countries list is very long and includes a lot of the Middle East for example

@captain why don't you list the members of the programme, you'll see my point

Partner countries list is very long and includes a lot of the Middle East for example

I wonder why Chewk can't answer a simple question?

Dunno - I'll buy him a soft drink if he's a non drinker. I'm not prejudiced and I think the Centurion stocks soft drinks.

I think Jamba's point is that we could be like a Middle Eastern country. He may be right, but that's a scary thought if you run with it for too long.

I think Jamba's point is that we could be like a Middle Eastern country. He may be right, but that's a scary thought if you run with it for too long.

I think Jambalaya wants us to be something along a Singapore model.

I think Jambalaya wants us to be something along a Singapore model.

Captain I mentioned Middle East as it is clearly not in the EU. That's the only reason.

I have posted this before (maybe DrJ didn't see it) but 1 of my kids did an Erasmus year, her top choices where Denmark or Australia. So when I say it's not an EU programme it's from knowing you can exchange with Unis in places most definitely not in the EU. From what I understand Switzerland has withdrawn as they don't want to pay the membership fee. EU members are automatically part of Erasmus but anyone can apply to join their global programme

[quote=igm ]Chewkw refuses to answer where he is actually a citizen of. Shocker.

Maybe it's because he's a citizen of somebody's imagination.

I have posted this before (maybe DrJ didn't see it) but 1 of my kids did an Erasmus year, her top choices where Denmark or Australia. So when I say it's not an EU programme it's from knowing you can exchange with Unis in places most definitely not in the EU. From what I understand Switzerland has withdrawn as they don't want to pay the membership fee. EU members are automatically part of Erasmus but anyone can apply to join their global programme

The centurion does cocktails - lager and lime...

I think Jambalaya wants us to be something along a Singapore model.
I don't think Jambalaya knows what Jambalya wants (nor chewkw for that matter). Only ninfan to go.

I could not have been clearer. I see you are going for a spot of name calling too after I had the courtsey to respond to your question even though the answer is one I have given many times.

A visa programme open equally to anyone is far more egalitarian than the fundamentally biased EU freedom of movement.

So when I say it's not an EU programme it's from knowing you can exchange with Unis in places most definitely not in the EU.

I see. So you've decided on your own criteria to determine whether it's an EU programme or not, and when the EU website says "Erasmus+ is the EU's programme to support education, training, youth and sport in Europe." they are simply deluded.

Thanks for clearing that up.

A visa programme open equally to anyone is far more egalitarian than the fundamentally biased EU freedom of movement.

It's open to anyone to apply, for sure, but that's not the same thing as being open to anyone to up sticks and move to Singapore, is it?

I could not have been clearer.[b] I see you are going for a spot of name calling too[/b] after I had the courtsey to respond to your question even though the answer is one I have given many times.

But erasmus wont be free to join . You said you are quite happy to pay for it , but surely that goes agaisnt the wish of most Brexiters .

In a way i agree that a visa system could be fairer but , May has only vsisted 1 country and part of a trade agreement , they said they want easier access .
Google , Nissan and jaguar have said the same too .

A visa system is more egalitarian than freedom of movement within Europe?

It's self-evidently not - it just uses a different set of criteria to deterine eligibility.

It's self-evidently not - it just uses a different set of criteria to deterine eligibility.

igm - Member
PS - chewkw, I think I've seen you refer to being Newcastle based. I'm in town (Toon) fairly frequently and I rarely bite.
Centurion bar at the station maybe? I'll buy the first one.
I am assuming you're not actually a made up character though. I don't buy fictitious people pints.

cchris2lou - Member
I wonder why Chewk can't answer a simple question?

Ask me again.

what passports have you got ?

Jambalya - member

From what I understand Switzerland has withdrawn as they don't want to pay the membership fee.

Seems it was more Switzerland got kicked out over free movement problems:

In a tit-for-tat retaliation, the European Union has frozen research grants for Swiss universities worth hundreds of millions of euros and suspended the involvement of Switzerland in the Erasmus student exchange programme.

A spokesman for the EU announced the freeze on Sunday, a day after after Bern announced it had refused to sign a deal opening labour market access to Croatia, the ATS news agency reported.

The EU kicked Switzerland out of a non-EU programme? How does that work?

cchris2lou - Member
what passports have you got ?

North Borneo. [b]I can also stay in the UK forever legally.[/b]

captainsasquatch - Member
Isn't the UK great?

I am happy at the moment since Brexit won the referendum.

Now we just have to tie up the loose ends ...

thanks .

Can I as a U.K subject move to North Borneo and make use of their facilities?
Can I vote in their elections?

Yes, great if you are happy. Not great if you are not happy.

zippykona - Member
Can I as a U.K subject move to North Borneo and make use of their facilities?
Can I vote in their elections?

Yes, you can as long as you have £200k - £300K to invest (buy a house or something ...) etc because the govt are encouraging people to set up second home in North Borneo. You can stay there forever so long as your money keep flowing in after the initial investment but you Do Not become a citizen.

Nope, you Do Not have the rights to vote because you are a foreigner (you stick out like sore thumb), unless of course if you are an illegal immigrant/pirate/rebel/separatist/religious hate preacher/ etc who manage to bribe the local village chief to name you as their illegitimate son/daughters or long lost relative ... in which case you become the citizen instantly and can continue your exploitation of the local native living in the remote inland ...

captainsasquatch - Member
Definitely unhappy here, this country is turning into a rather nasty place. Any idea where I can move to that's better? Preferably without restrictions as I like the concept of free movement.

😆 Now is the time to let go then you shall be happy again.

There is no such thing as happy place on earth and even if there is it is only temporary because someone will spoil it ...

Freedom of movement ... that's just hype and overrated. 😆

Yes, you can as long as you have £200k - £300K to invest etc because the govt are encouraging people to set up second home in North Borneo. You can stay there forever so long as your money keep flowing in after the initial investment but you Do Not become a citizen.

Nope, you Do Not have the rights to vote because you are a foreigner (you stick up like sore thumb), unless of course if you are an illegal immigrant/pirate/rebel/separatist/religious hate preacher/ etc who manage to bribe the local village chief to name you as their illegitimate son/daughters or long lost relative ... in which case you become the citizen instantly and can continue your exploitation of the local native living in the remote inland ...

Freedom of movement ... that's just hype and overrated.

Chewk, do you feel it morally fair that you can vote in our elections?
Why Farage isn't campaigning to get us out of the commonwealth I don't know. Freedom to come here and meddle in our affairs can't be right .

captainsasquatch - Member
Now there's a very obvious question jumping out at me here, I can't quite put my finger on it, but it's connected to the egalitarian bit of what Jamba was saying. And I'm sure someone will be along to check how much you invested in the UK (The more the better in Jamba's eyes).

We have many S.Korean etc setting up 2nd home there ...

zippykona - Member
Chewk, do you feel it morally fair that you can vote in our elections?

It would be morally wrong not to oblige the demand of the Queen's govt. 😆

Why Farage isn't campaigning to get us out of the commonwealth I don't know. Freedom to come here and meddle in our affairs can't be right.

i wish no harm to anyone , so i hope when the right wingers you have unleashed realise that the EU is not the root of their problems , and they come after any kind of foreigners , you have your piece of paper in your pocket to explain to them you are in the uk legally .

captainsasquatch - Member

We have many S.Korean etc setting up 2nd home there ...

So it's globilisation that you don't like, even though you're taking advantage of it.
FkedUp

They are S.Korean. We like S.Korean.

Because they don't swamp us like our neighbouring countries do ... we don't like them but there is nothing we can do because our Mus-lamic govt keeps giving them citizenship because of their "Mus-lamic" brother/sisterhood. Their combine population is about 350 million ... we are only 5 million in North Borneo.

Chewkw - if you are telling the truth, then sadly cchris is right. You have sown the wind.
You are going to need all the friends you can find when the racists come for you. Brexit was act one. The racists are coming.
I truly wish you no ill. And I suspect the vast majority of the remainers are in the same place. Less so the Brexies, though even there not all are racist.

Does anyone else think it's odd that non uk passport holders can vote in our elections?
Not a dig at Chewk as I've always known that Eire citizens can vote here I didn't realise it was commonwealth as well.
My business is in Sutton borough, I pay my rates to Sutton borough, I employ people from Sutton borough but I have no say about what goes on as I live in Epsom.

cchris2lou - Member
i wish no harm to anyone , so i hope when the right wingers you have unleashed realise that the EU is not the root of their problems , and they come after any kind of foreigners , you have your piece of paper in your pocket to explain to them you are in the uk legally .

Back home we carry ID card everywhere regardless of who you are. If a person cannot show their ID they get arrested instantly. That is our way of life so what paper are you talking about that is such a big deal? Carry what paper here? 😆

Not sure what you are trying to say but I feel perfectly welcome here.

Then why did you try to break it. You have my pity.

Does anyone else think it's odd that non uk passport holders can vote in our elections?

Switzerland is in all sorts of shit over their referendum. Trying to cook up some way of pretending to adhere to the spirit of it while actually still keeping freedom of movement. Current idea seems to be that all jobs have to be advertised in Switzerland (ie not purely overseas). Big deal.

igm - Member
Chewkw - sadly cchris is right. You have sown the wind.
You are going to need all the friends you can find when the racists come for you. Brexit was act one. The racists are coming.

We are bought up in that sort of condition and much worst. Our government discriminates people as a way of life. It is the norm over there. Race and religion are seen as one and if we don't belong to their definition we are legally discriminated even when we are citizen.

Religious hate preachers from other part of the world are more welcome than us.

zippykona - Member
Does anyone else think it's odd that non uk passport holders can vote in our elections?
Not a dig at Chewk as I've always known that Eire citizens can vote here I didn't realise it was commonwealth as well.

Yep Capt. Tying themselves in knots.

Coming for me? Are you kidding?

Nope. It won't be legal discrimination we are talking about. More the illegal sort.

We are bought up in that sort of condition and much worst. Our government discriminates people as a way of life. It is the norm over there. Race and religion are seen as one and if we don't belong to their definition we are legally discriminated even when we are citizen.

igm - Member

Not sure what you are trying to say but I feel perfectly welcome here.

Then why did you try to break it. You have my pity.

Most foreigners are welcome to this country if they can jump through all the necessary hoops (rules etc) but you lot, the EU bureaucratic supporters, open the floodgate like diarrhea that cannot be stopped and in the process you have created problems for the legitimate foreigners.

You are better off blaming the EU bureaucratic utopians coz they spoil it for all of us.

igm - Member

Coming for me? Are you kidding?

Nope. It won't be legal discrimination we are talking about. More the illegal sort.

Not me. You did.

Wrong again. It's the Brexies that go wrecking without any concept of how to build a better future.

You will come to learn that though.

Ya, nothing new I am afraid. Been there, done that and it is the norm and way of life for me. Been trained since kid.

Well if that's what you want, enjoy the beatings the more extreme elements of the Brexy front will be handing out, at least we have the NHS to patch you up - if you make it to the hospital.

Like I say, you have down the wind.

The offer of a pint stands - though I suspect you don't exist. No one could be as foolish as you make out you are.

My suspicion is you are a Home Counties trustafarian with a chip on their shoulder a la Zac.

We've plenty of ideas, personally unshackling ourselves from the economic corpse which is the EU will be a good first step.

The challenge is huge but so is the opportunity. If we work together we can enable Britain to be one of the most successful countries of the 21st century. But there is a lot of work to be done to get there and we need to build the broadest possible coalition behind the Brexit process. Among other significant challenges, Brexit means:

People who voted Leave and people who voted Remain coming together to find the best way forward.
Using all our people and resources to help us navigate through the most significant change to the UK’s economic, diplomatic and democratic arrangements in 40 years.
Engaging individuals and communities across the country with the Brexit process
Improving how our politics works so that the divide between voters and politicians – something the referendum exposed so starkly – is bridged, and the bond between the people and their government is irreversibly strengthened
Ending the free movement of people from the EU without denying our businesses with the skills and talent they need to grow.
As free movement ends, enabling EU nationals living and working in Britain to stay here and feel valued, and ensuring the same for UK nationals in EU countries.
Amending and incorporating large areas of EU regulation into UK law as UK legal supremacy is restored.
Identifying effective new funding formulas for agriculture, science, research and poorer regions and agreeing priorities for additional investment when the UK’s financial contribution to the EU budget ends.
Getting British businesses the best possible deal to sell goods and services into the Single Market
Negotiating new trade agreements with the world’s fastest growing markets
Redefining and strengthening our defence and security relationship with European nations and our NATO allies
Supporting EU nations to strengthen the European economy, meet environmental challenges together and manage migration flows on the EU’s borders
Learning to think globally, not just regionally

Most foreigners are welcome to this country if they can jump through all the necessary hoops (rules etc) but you lot, the EU bureaucratic supporters, open the floodgate like diarrhea that cannot be stopped and in the process you have created problems for the legitimate foreigners.