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Winds of change Jamba, winds of change. By the time you notice the breeze, the hurricane will be upon the Brexies.
Oh and can I echo chewkw's sentiment - one down, now for the rest of them.
Winds of change Jamba, winds of change. By the time you notice the breeze, the hurricane will be upon the Brexies.
😀
Jess Phillips is right, Heathrow expansion which has been a decade or more overdue will go ahead as will Brexit
I thought it might be the other paragraph that someone quoted.
Ah well, I still like the balance of the wording in the first paragraph so let's do it again.
Winds of change Jamba, winds of change. By the time you notice the breeze, the hurricane will be upon the Brexies.
Looks like it, a Pro EU campaign winning, the thought that returning Goldsmith as an independant would stop Heathrow expansion was a bit farsical. He did however not reflect the views or concearns of his constituents on the most pressing matter of the day.
Olney/Lib Dems are also against expansion.
So, we can hypothesise that staying in the EU is important [i]in Richmond[/i].
With such a major swing, in line with Brexit voting, it will be interesting to see the outcome of future by-elections in the bulk of the country- will Labour be decimated?
wow a 2016 vote that doesnt make me think the country's heading back to the dark ages !
those pollsters really are shit arent they!
We knew you would say that Jambalaya. So why the Tories did not put up a candidate?
The lib dem based their campaign on Brexit and won.
Heathrow expansion is years away.
Will labour be decimated?
If they don't actually stand up and be counted for something then probably - and they'll deserve it.
UKIP and the LibDems are painting a vision of the future. Tories and Labour are living on past glories - which you can do for a good long time but not forever.
Britex is cancelled 🙂
massive swing to the lib dems ,the standing MP just defeated, a 24 000 ish reversal of a majority...aye it happens all the time does that jamby so no surprise at allRichmond voted 70% Remain and the Tories did not put forward a candidate so a LibDem win isn't a big surprise
I agree it wont change much in the minds of the Brexiters/ right wing types....they seem pretty impervious to reality 😉
agreed but the problem is what the MPs want to stand for and what the party want them t stand for are largely unrelated to each otherIf they don't actually stand up and be counted for something then probably - and they'll deserve it.
They really should be offering an alternative view to all this and challenging the tories
They are hardly speaking with one voice on the major issue even amongst the three brexiteers never mind the whole parliamentary party
[quote=captainsasquatch ]
Did I say mass manufacturing?
Good thing there's a strong demand for artisan Spitfires and organic Triumph Heralds...
24% swing in Witney Junky
@fourbangers not according to Jess Phillips (see Tweet above)
The lib dem now need to be even more vocal about Brexit.
It is their big change to redeem themselves.
[quote=cchris2lou ]The lib dem now need to be even more vocal about Brexit.
It is their big change to redeem themselves.
This^
Brexit will fail to happen
General election called
Tories ousted
Labour are toothless and ineffective so wont take the Tory vote
A perfect opportunity for the Lib Dems to get in a strong position
where the tories still won so well done for comparing chalk with cheese and for working out that tory vote of 60.2 % of the vote dropping to 45% was a 24% swing24% swing in Witney Junky
massive swing to the lib dems ,the standing MP just defeated, a 24 000 ish reversal of a majority...aye it happens all the time does that jamby so no surprise at all
Basically nothing like that then FWIW it was far funnier on the other thread and here it just looks like you missed the point and you cannot count rather than it was funny trolling
Thanks but as a eu migrant I can't vote. 😉
I doubt it will stop Brexit all together but it is certainly a major breakthrough.
If Labour woke up from their 1970 nap the PM could be under real pressure.
Surely the Govt can simply ignore the referendum and carry on as normal. It will obviously be a bit of a shock as going back on one's promise is almost unheard of in this campaign, but I believe there's a fair few supporters on one side who are happy with going back on promises and would happily support the Govt in this action.
hey brexit mean brexit
everything else was lie but that bit is immutable
I agree. The point being that we already have a different standard plug to the rest of Europe. If Europe goes down a "corded electrical goods must have a Euro standard plug permanently attached to get CE marked"
I discovered to my cost that Swiss plugs are not the same as the almost identical euro plugs!!!! Do the Swiss use CE marking???
The point being that we already have a different standard plug to the rest of Europe
What mrmo said. Those 'euro' plugs aren't an EU-wide standard:
http://www.iec.ch/worldplugs/map.htm#
I discovered to my cost that Swiss plugs are not the same as the almost identical euro plugs!!!! Do the Swiss use CE marking???
You can add Italy and Norway to that list, though most new buildings come with schukos (what a "euro plug" actully is) nowadays.
and one thing to consider consider the liberal party c 1900-1910, going from important to oblivion.
Never assume that it can't happen again. look at the Tory party in Scotland and Wales. or how the Scottish parliament is unhealthly single party.
That the Tories and Labour are major parties doesn't mean that screwing up brexit won't consign them to oblivion.
Has Goldsmith asked yet for the election to be re-run as he didn't like the result?
we already have a different standard plug
Yes, but of note here is that ours is, as you would expect. The best
unless you stand on the upturned bugger in the night...
Yes, but of note here is that ours is, as you would expect. The best
With the one glaring design fault that anyone who's stood on one will attest to.
The choice of material's pretty poor too. Who would make a plug out of somtheing that shatters?
And terminal shields were only required from the 90's onwards. The shutters are ace & make those stupid baby-proofing blanking plates unnecessary.
[IMG] 
[/IMG]
Here's a Europlug sporting some natty insulation that the UK plug proclaims makes it safer. I wonder what other safety features those crazy Europeans have adopted. They seem smart enouyh not to adopt the three pin, foot puncturing design.
hey brexit mean brexiteverything else was lie but that bit is immutable
You know I'm beginning to think the fat lady hasn't even stepped on stage yet.
Now before I offend any sensibilities, im not saying are brexiters are scum, but it really does seem to have poisoned our politics
[img] 
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[quote=mrmo ] or how the Scottish parliament is unhealthly single party.
😕
Current Scottiish Parliament Seats
Scottish National Party 63
Scottish Conservative & Unionist Party 31
Scottish Labour 23
Scottish Green Party 6
Scottish Liberal Democrats 5
No Party Affiliation 1
That equates to 49% SNP, 51% opposing parties
The current split in Westminster is 50.5% Conservative, 49.5% opposing parties
But aye, the Scottish parliament is totally single party...
its easy to find nobbers on the internet- they are everywhere.
I think it has raised the profile and acceptability of harmful and offensive remarks and , regrettably, in the rise of hate crimes
That said suggesting someone gets murdered by a right wing racist nutjob is a particular low for the internet but we would be there were it not for moderation
That said suggesting someone gets murdered by a right wing racist nutjob is a particular low for the internet but we would be there were it not for moderation
Who would?
who do you think?
either discuss what i said or dont but this is like you audition to be John Humphreys 😉
I have no idea but that doies not negate the point made
The internet leads to folk saying and doing things they might not in the real world and of course there is a tiny minority of hate filled nutters and some of them own bikes
I am really going to ignore it if you just do this
Not sure if its intentional but IMHO it adds little if anythign to the debate as its not that important to the broad point you made no comment on
Is that tweet enough for the police to investigate, if so, who do we report it to?
I'm pretty sure if the authorities wanted it to be 'enough' for a reason of theirs thy would.
She's already reported it to Notts police.
boardin bob, i meant to say scottish westminster parliament. 56 SNP may not accurately reflect Scotland.
Ed Balls on [s]Strictly[/s] This Week (I paraphrase)
Freedom of movement on the scale we are seeing it is unsustainable, the EU is going to have to reform. He also claimed he'd be saying that for 6 years. He says they in particular they need to address low skilled migration and people moving without a job.
Portillo's view freedom of movement won't be a negotiation problem as every other wealthy EU country faces the same problem and want a solution.
Except that after Brexit, the new rules inside the EU won't matter to the UK. 🙄
Freedom of movement on the scale we are seeing it is unsustainable, the EU is going to have to reform.
Maybe so - but I doubt that even the EU will be cruel enough to forbid a woman to live in the same country as her national(*) husband and national child
(*) by which I mean national of the country that the wife/mother is forbidden to immigrate to.
Freedom of movement on the scale we are seeing it is unsustainable
Why?
Freedom of movement on the scale we are seeing it is unsustainable
Unemployment down, total employed up. Doesn't look unsustainable to me. If anything, it looks essential to a prosperous UK...
Now, there might well be an argument about the sustainability of the countries that are being left by these people. That does cause damage.
Rachel
Someone needs to tell that prize **** Jacob "I want the 50's back" Rees-Mogg that a majority in the referendum is not a majority of the country it's not even close you clown.
A majority in the referendum is not a majority of the country it's not even close you clown.
Im not entirely clear what you are suggesting - do you mean that we should have never been in the EU, given that the 1975 EEC referendum did not command not a majority of the country?
Im not entirely clear what you are suggesting - do you mean that we should have never been in the EU, given that the 1975 EEC referendum did not command not a majority of the country?
no just that mogg is misusing statitics coz his candidate lost, he should just get over it and stop bremoaning 😛
[quote=mrmo ]boardin bob, i meant to say scottish westminster parliament. 56 SNP may not accurately reflect Scotland.
But in the General Election, the SNP got 50% of the Scottish vote, and a bungload of seats.
The Conservative party got 36.9% of the popular vote across the UK
They got 37.8% of the popular vote in England
They got 40.7% of the popular vote in England, Wales and NI combined
So in actual fact, based on the popular vote, the SNP are far better placed to represent the people of Scotland in Westminster, than the Conservative party are placed to represent England or the rest of the UK including or excluding Scotland.
And I'm not even an SNP voter!
@allthegear - well that's what he said and unemployment etc are dire in France, Spain and Italy for example. The countries being left are getting money sent home in most cases. I wonder how much money the 1m Poles put back into their homeland £1bn a year ? £5bn ?
[i]I wonder how much money the 1m Poles put back into their homeland £1bn a year ? £5bn ? [/I]
Why is this a problem? If they want to live cheap and send home money, they're doing as migrant workers have done over the centuries - and I'm pretty sure when you were an expat you did exactly the same?
£350m a week surely.
But whatever the true amount is per person, I certainly transferred a shedload more back to the UK when I worked abroad as an economic migrant.
@allthegear - well that's what he said and unemployment etc are dire in France, Spain and Italy for example. The countries being left are getting money sent home in most cases. I wonder how much money the 1m Poles put back into their homeland £1bn a year ? £5bn ?
Can't be that bad in Spain as there are a fair few Spanish over here, at times I can't turn around for Spanish being spoken. Probably more money coming in to pay tuition than the barista is sending home, I imagine. I don't think you understand the fundamental priciples of the EU, do you? The money whether sent to Spain, Italy or Poland is staying in Europe. We are part of Europe. It is not leaving us as you think? We can apply the same thinking to people who work in London and living outside the capital or sending money home.
And one last kick in the balls of the stupidly designed British plug and attitude that still thinks it's the greatest.
[IMG] 
[/IMG]
Shutters on the socket that cannot be opened without a plug being inserted. As the video above showed, there is a way to open the shuuter thusly exposing a live element, this can't happen with the Europlug.
They have the added bonus of not leaving prongs upwardly for you to stand on.
Got to be worth a Brucie Bonus, no?
Ok I'm sorry I mentioned plugs.
I just meant, of course we would go with whatever standard supports CE - until the next rewrite of that standard that ignores British variations because we're not in the euro standards team anymore. Then we look sheepishly round for a standard that does include our variations and find there isn't one.
But the Germans love our plugs 🙂
b r no problem at all sending money home (although ideally I'd rather it was spent in the UK economy) it was more a comment about the importance of Poles working in the UK to the domestic Polish economy.
We did do plugs before but that's STW .... @welsh 🙂
From the Mash 😀
THE shock Richmond byelection result might be related to calling half of UK voters losers who should shut their traitor mouths forever, Conservative sources believe.Right-wing thinktanks have hypothesised a link between treating 48 per cent of voters like scum who deserve only contempt and those same voters switching their political allegiance.
A Downing Street source said: “Theresa couldn’t be more shocked. That these radical dissenter bastards for some reason don’t like having their views comprehensively disregarded is something nobody expected.
“They are whining sore losers who deserve whatever Brexit we decide to give them, that’s fact, but in this post-truth politics era they’ve unaccountably reacted against that.
“We don’t understand it. When Cameron called them all fat, lazy bastards who were getting austerity because they’d sucked on the state tit for too damn long they were fine with it.”
May said: “How dare they deny the will of the British people? The good, correct British people, that is.”
Germany wants to charge foreigners for using it's motorways including EU citizens
Sorry Junkyard, I wasn't trying to be fatuous. Perhaps I misunderstood but I thought you were hinting that without moderation this forum would contain similar hate messages. That surprised me as although there are some robust arguments here, contributors seem pretty decent folk.
Cameron was quite clear, just one Referendum, the people decide not politicans or Parliament
Cameron? Who's that?
What is Italy's Referendum Really About ? Newsnight
The results of Austria's Presidential re-run may not be known till Thursday
[url= http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/labelling-half-the-country-whingeing-remoaner-****s-not-politically-popular-discovers-may-20161202118358 ]Absolutely brilliant from the Mash[/url]
😆
The scary thing about the mash now is that it is so close to reality it's starting to lose the parody and comedy side
Ho ho and all that but it is the Remainers who are doing all the whinging, in fact it's gone beyond whinging. As for popularity the Tories will be pretty happy with where they are now.
It's really not, look at comments made when ever an aspect of Brexit is questioned. On the facebook page you linked to yesterday, for example, someone said the any politician questioning Brexit should be charged with 'treason against democracy'. Whatever the fudge that is.
Nearly half of those who voted are against it. It's right and correct to question it. Get over yourself.
It's way beyond questioning it. Look at the posts on here, here are the majority of the insults and name calling coming from ?
And in the real world the death threats are coming from Brexitiers.
But seriously, if there was actually an answer maybe we'd stop questioning. Instead the government appeals a high court ruling and tells the supreme court they should take into account the vote (why? The outcome of the vote has no bearing on the legality of triggering A50 without parliamentary consent), the leavers in the cabinet are changing their minds every other day while downing street says don't listen to them.
If this isn't the time to press for answers, when is?
What Lifer just said and the fact that the promises made during the Leave campaign are not very to happen anytime soon. Do you do to be reminded again of that red bus? And what did it say on its side?
Look at the posts on here, here are the majority of the insults and name calling coming from ?
Whinging? Insults? Name-calling? Oh diddums. Has Jammers got all hurty feelings? Well boo *ing hoo
Meanwhile, coming from the other side....
[img] 
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Nothing sinister at all about stuff like this, is there?
With its thinly veiled overtones of fascism, and the implied violence that goes with that?
The point in the Mash is well made. 48% of the population now don't have their views represented by any of the main political parties. We can discount the labour party for the utter shambles it is, but the Tory's are now looking increasingly rabid, and racist, and flirting with some really unpleasant sentiments and ideology.Add to that the obvious incompetence of those in charge. In short: they're looking *ing unhinged!
The lib dems have just figured out (not that its taken much figuring) that most people, no matter which way they voted in the referendum, aren't rabid, foaming at the mouth, racist loons, and are now, justifiably very, very worried about the direction this is all taking by the bunch of clowns at the helm.
By offering an alternative on the most important issue of the day, the lib dems will hoover up a massive amount of votes. And the Tories now know that!
You can discount the by-election result all you like, but you can bet your house on the fact that its spooked TM enough for her to immediately jettison any ideas she was having of calling an early election.
We've discussed the bus at length cchris
The Government have been clear with the plan, the Remianers don't like the answer
A50 by end of March
We will negotiate the best deal and we won't provide a running commentary
We respect the vote
The people voted for ending control of ecj and to control immigration ending free movement.
What this means is if the EU won't agree complete free trade without freedom of movement we'll go custom deal or WTO - that's my interpretation. It's a simple scenario to understand
The point in the Mash is well made. 48% of the population now don't have their views represented by any of the main political parties
Lib Dems ?
Time for a new political party then committed to taking us back into the EU after 2020. UKIP in reverse, they started a movement from nothing so "Rejoin and Rejoice at the European High Altar" can do the same. Simple. Good luck with that btw
The Govenrment is competent and the public agree, the Tories have a massive lead. We have a situation where remain clickbait newstories are clouding the reality of public opinion.
Except it's just guess work.
You don't get it, that's very clear. If 'leave is leave' is good enough for you, crack on. The actual details affect me though, that's why I want to know.
What's it like, being you?
I've never been anyone else so I can't make a comparison 🙂
Lifer the details affect me too, massively. However they can't be known now. It's just not possible.
To me, it all looks very...
and makes about as much sense
And then you have Boris Johnson stumbling about saying he [b]supports[/b] freedom of movement.
I can't decide if this is Boris being likably honest or just a two-faced buffoon. The latter I suspect.
jambalaya - Member
Lifer the details affect me too, massively. However they can't be known now. It's just not possible
So you admit your argument is based on nothing but an ideological position against the EU. At last.
That's not unreasonable though Lifer.
Plenty of Remainers (including me) have expressed their ideological driven reasons for staying in (better together, peaceful Europe etc)
But we know what it's like in the EU.
Anything else, as Jamba says, is just not possible to know.
Time for a new political party then committed to taking us back into the EU after 2020. Simple. Good luck with that btw
So we leave now and even with the best negotiators in the world (ha ha ha) we will get a worse deal from the EU than we have now. And if we rejoin we will never get what we had before (now). You'll have to forgive me if I can't see where the positives in this are.
The Govenrment is competent and the public agree, the Tories have a massive lead. We have a situation where remain clickbait newstories are clouding the reality of public opinion.
I suspect that this is observation bias. From where I'm sat the popular (populist) media are still firmly asserting that the EU causes cancer, killed Diana, takes all of our money and all they do in return is actively load raping, benefit pinching ,murdering, workshy, job stealing migrants onto boats and propel then to our shores and that anyone who holds a different view is committing treason. Claiming that "clickbait" is a remainer phenomenon is ridiculous given the headlines of the Sun/Mail/Express/Telegraph etc. which bear no relation to fact and are pure click/read bait. I'm still frankly ashamed that I live in a country where this can happen without challenge being heard, people believe it "because it said so in the papers" and that any reasoned debate is killed before it can start or polluted by opinion over fact to the point of irellevance.
The reports of the government policy (not their populist soundbites provided by mainstream front page media) do not inspire me with confidence that they have the first clue about what they are doing or that they care about national division. They just want power, same as ever, it is just that this seasons battle ground is the EU with the biggest weapon in the armoury being populism.
I know we have discussed the bus at length, and we all agreed it was bullshxt .
And now the future of a country and it's population is being built above that bullshxt and you expect people to keep quiet!
I don't think so.