[Closed] EU Referendum - are you in or out?

However, as you well know, the EU broke their own rules to allow the EFSM to aid Greece last year, so can you give me a guarantee that the EU won't somehow break or rewrite the rules again to drag us in to their mess? No, of course you can't - the only way to guarantee that is to leave.

Tell me about any UK involvement here? Was there any? Yes or no? If yes, under what conditions? I yes ^2 did we get repaid? If no, what is the point you are making?

as much as I enjoy pointing out the errors in brexiter logic on other threads and the offer of EU citizenship-lite for 100quid a pop pleases me greatly

lets just stick to one

so things are proceeding as you might expect..........

Nissan have been promised compensation that the government are desperate to keep secret.
Trump is dictating our ambassadorial appointments (lets face it if he offered a free trade deal we'd do what he asked- look at Moggy et al paying homage at farage's ferrero roche ball) , parliament are hamstrung by the courts because the promised referendum was not binding.
Now [s]Tata Group[/s] Jaguar landrover are demanding preferential visa access for their employees and millions in investment from the government, in exchange for a new factory.

#fakecontrol

But Kimbers the jaguar story is a Brexit boost (I think that's like a Cadbury's boost, but made by Brexit). I know because the Express told me. 😉

Now Tata Group Jaguar landrover are demanding preferential visa access for their employees and millions in investment from the government, in exchange for a new factory.

Which EU country do they come from? Or is the reality they need visa's now?

And is the investment possible due to EU state aid rules falling away post Brexit?

BnD - more that they've got us over a barrel and they know it.

Which EU country do they come from? Or is the reality they need visa's now?

well like all international companies they want the best employees, so any country really

And is the investment possible due to EU state aid rules falling away post Brexit?

"in order to make the batteries and cars we need the power supply, which there is a shortage of in this area".

- not according the the european comission?
http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-16-1782_en.htm

Even if infrastructure is built with the help of State aid, there is no aid to its operator and users if they pay a market price. When infrastructure is built with public financing that involves State aid in line with EU rules, public authorities need to make sure that such aid is not passed on to the operator or users of this infrastructure. The Notice clarifies that this is the case, if an operator or user pays a market price to use the infrastructure in question, for instance as a result of a competitive, transparent, non-discriminatory and unconditional tender.

Kimber's as far as we know Nissan have been told we are committed to tariff free trade (commitment cost is zero, its only words) they may have have been promised compensation if tariffs make their cost of production higher but £ is already lower than cost of any tariffs so if that persists cost is zero (note in the event there are tariffs on cars the UK will be ££££ in so we can easily subsidise). I would be very surprised if anything substantial was firm in writing so we can back out when we want - we can make a cost / benefit decision about wether it's worth paying at the time (not before 2019)

Republican Head of the Senate Paul Ryan said he wants the Trump government to prioritise a trade deal with the UK to reflect our relationship. Remember EU hates the US and the reverse is true also.

Tata are "demanding" eh ? Big talk, they are not going to uproot their entire business (at a staggering cost) and a Jaguar built in XYZ isn't a British car is it ? Nissan is/was a different story, no one care whether a Japanese brand car is built in Sunderland or Seville and they already have multiple European factories.

Republican Head of the Senate Paul Ryan said he wants the Trump government to prioritise a trade deal with the UK to reflect our relationship. Remember EU hates the US and the reverse is true also.

Tata are "demanding" eh ? Big talk, they are not going to uproot their entire business (at a staggering cost) and a Jaguar built in XYZ isn't a British car is it ?

Republican Head of the Senate Paul Ryan said he wants the Trump government to prioritise a trade deal with the UK to reflect our relationship.

Republican soon to be head of the country Trump wants farage to be our ambassador, will that be a condition?

Republican Head of the Senate Paul Ryan said he wants the Trump government to prioritise a trade deal with the UK to reflect our relationship

Republican soon to be head of the country Trump wants farage to be our ambassador, will that be a condition?

I do hope so, if nothing else just to wind up all the bitter and petty minded remainders.

You see, you could have taken the potential of a trade deal with the US as a bloody great, really positive thing for our country - genuinely great for trade and industry, and undoubtedly given our shared language and history, science and education too, but no, instead you chose to turn it into a whinge about the bloke who led the campaign for years to leave the EU, and to whom you lost fair and square (Farage not even being in on the £350m thing) - so, you know what, I hope that he gets the job just to rub your petty, isolationist, sore-loser noses in it.

ninfan - Member

so, you know what, I hope that he gets the job just to rub your petty, isolationist, sore-loser noses in it.

That's the spirit- he's spectacularly ill suited to it, he's completely in bed with Trump, and firing the current ambassador to bring him in would be a total capitulation right at the start of trade talks. Bonzer. But hey, as long as it annoys some remainers it's all good.

Incidentally, I don't think "isolationist" means what you think it means.

he's spectacularly ill suited to it,

This from a Corbyn supporter 😆

isolationist?? Wants to be part of the EU, part of a world economy, part of the EU-World trading deals??

[i]isolationist
noun
1.
a person who favors or works for isolationism.
adjective
2.
of, relating to, or characteristic of isolationists or isolationism :

isolationism
noun
1.
the policy or doctrine of isolating one's country from the affairs of other nations by declining to enter into alliances, foreign economic commitments, international agreements, etc., seeking to devote the entire efforts of one's country to its own advancement and remain at peace by avoiding foreign entanglements and responsibilities.[/i]

ninfan - Member

This from a Corbyn supporter

Uh, no. But carry on, you're on a roll

I have been instructed by the committee for a Free Yorkshire to let all those remoanarsers and brexshiters know that any country wi a bit o brass can ave trade deal we Yorkshire. We'll not charge em much unless their a bit spendy like them there Londoners an the fancy ways (they pay out for a bit o Yorkshire beer). We reckon that there Trump feller must ave a bit on London in im, talks mostly about brass. Me thinks he as nowt.

Jaguar built in XYZ isn't British

http://www.jaguarlandrover.com/gl/en/about-us/international-manufacturing/

Sorry Jamba, same as Nissan. They can and already do, go elsewhere

Anyone who thinks that the USA will do a trade deal that doesn't favour itself (and in the current political climate) hasn't been following the news...

I do hope so, if nothing else just to wind up all the bitter and petty minded remainders.

You see, you could have taken the potential of a trade deal with the US as a bloody great, really positive thing for our country - genuinely great for trade and industry, and undoubtedly given our shared language and history, science and education too, but no, instead you chose to turn it into a whinge about the bloke who led the campaign for years to leave the EU, and to whom you lost fair and square (Farage not even being in on the £350m thing) - so, you know what, I hope that he gets the job just to rub your petty, isolationist, sore-loser noses in it.

oh no Id quite like him to get the job

hed be out of the country for one thing
and nothing would show him up quicker than watching him oversee disaster after disaster in such a job.

as for a free trade deal, sounds good- lower import taxes on bikes? 😀 , but given trumps rhetoric he'd be looking for one that benefited america over us and Im surrised as I thought TTIP was something that we didnt want to be signed up to? brexiters used it as a warning for continued EU membership

so Ill keep on whinging about farage and the damage hes done to my country

By the time the UK achieves (less likley as each day goes by) Brexit it's highly likley team Trump will be back in civvy Street robbing poor folks.

It was interesting to see that business investment was up in the last quarter (stand back for the told you so from Jamba etc al) but when you talk to senior managment and my job involves meeting these levels of managment on a daily basis and you ask the question about investment you get the following typical answers -
1. We are making sure the business is in good shape (fixing the roof so when it starts ****ing down we are dry approach)
2. Cap ex investment to reduce op ex going forward
3. 5 - 10% staff reduction planned or envisaged in both public and private sector

It is ok THM, following the ruling on British ski instructors, Jambalaya is now a pro freedom of movement for work.

What I actually said is that they would all have visas, recognition of international qualifications is possible without freedom of movement - eg medicine. I might add the French position is a perfect example of how some countries (a few regions in this case) ignore/circumvent EU law to protect their local workforce. Dysfunctional EU

igm Jaguar are in Brazil and China. Letter of intent signed in Slovakia and the factory is what 10 years away ? Ford already moved Transit production from Southampton to Turkey whilst we where in the EU.

Oldman .. its an established trend, more investment spending to reduce workforce. There is a big social issue as AI and robotics are going to slash manufactruring jobs. Uber wants driverless taxis etc.

jambalaya - Member
igm Jaguar are in Brazil and China. Letter of intent signed in Slovakia and the factory is what 10 years away ?

Sorry, but that's the point.

They ain't tied to Britain. R&D maybe, but that's mainly nice white collar jobs and not that many.

If the UK want the production to stay here in a smaller tariff free market (i.e. the UK not the EU), then we'll need to grovel. Or accept what we need to to get tariff free access to places, or buy them off.

We're over a barrel due to the Brexies and the manufacturers know it.

You're point to oldman is valid, which is why for example in the states Trump isn't bringing manufacturing jobs back, because some of them never left they just got automated and any manufacturing he does bring back from overseas will mainly be automated.

And isn't that the problem all over? You can have as many brexits as you like, the days of the unskilled or semi-skilled worker having a decent job/career/prospects were killed by automation not immigration.

I might add the French position is a perfect example of how some countries (a few regions in this case) ignore/circumvent EU law to protect their local workforce. Dysfunctional EU

NINfan - the only problem with sending Farage to the states is it's not far enough away.

Let me remind you that he is the man who celebrated the referendum result say "'And we will have done it without having to fight, without a single bullet being fired, we'd have done it by damned hard work on the ground."

A week after a Brexy nutter had shot Jo Cox.

After Farage had been putting up posters to incit racial tensions that even members of his own party had taken down.

If this country had any guts we'd have locked him up by now.

A thoroughly nasty piece of work.

On the basis of the bits of paper lying around in my local polling station France has it's first Thatcherite presidential candidate in Fillon. Madame is nervous, me too because if she has no job somebody has to work.

There is a big social issue as AI and robotics are going to slash manufactruring jobs. Uber wants driverless taxis etc.

agreed, the brexit and especially trump campaigns wooed a lot of voters in post industrial communities in the hope that high skill high wage jobs can be brought back, turning back time may be beyond the powers of even the Donald & Nigel

Gove is on Marr....

Nope I cant do it to myself 😉

Why do they keep giving him air time?

Price of tomatoes and fish on the rise..
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38108780

Traders at one of the UK's largest wholesale markets say prices for imports from the EU are up by as much as 40% owing to the drop in the value of the pound.

Traders at one of the UK's largest wholesale markets say prices for imports from the EU are up by as much as 40% owing to the drop in the value of the pound.

Cod know why when the pound has "only" fallen 20%.

Have they no sole?

Sounds fishy to me.

Shackleton - Member
Why do they keep giving him air

I'd love to see him and Johnson interviewed together 😈

The old adage was give them air so that they can prove how stupid they are themselves - trouble is these days the more stupid the gesture politics the more its lapped up.

Glad I was playing tennis instead.

The equivalent qualifications thing is interesting, if qualifications are to be equivalent then some kind of agreed standard is needed. Fact is you need a significantly higher level of ability and training in some countries than others.

A relation was working as a lifeguard in the UK at the age of 16 with minimal training. He was alone at the pool side. In France you'd have to be over 18 and have gone through a much longer and more selective training programme - there would probably be two lifeguards on duty. Now when I'm swimming off Biaritz with a good surf I really don't want a 16-year old kid who would have difficulty looking after himself responsible for me and a hundred others just because he has some worthless UK qualification.

Edit: the recent case about the UK guide whose client sued demostrates just how lightweight UK MTB guide training is.

the french's approach on this matter has resulted in EU law being applied evenly as it should. fully functional EU.

How long has that taken exactly ? How aboit EU ignoring animal welfare rule breaches in 6 EU countries allowing them to sell (dump) Pork at low prices into the UK in the wake of sanctions on Russia ?

Edukator I didn't realise the CRS are routinely present on larger French beaches - now that is some serious specialist training 😉 Speaking to guides and company owners the French qualifications are very clearly biased in favour of locals, things like the race times which are very hard to achieve unless you live locally and raced a lot as a kid. Who cares if your ski instructor can tank down a GS course, I care about them being a good teacher and being aware of safety procedures etc.

Edit: the recent case about the UK guide whose client sued demostrates just how lightweight UK MTB guide training is.

I followed the case and know well the spot where accident happened. IMHO it had nothing to do with instructor training. We've all been otb many times, this guy was just very unlucky. Richard Branson faceplanted on a roadspeed bump a couple of months ago. Could have ended very differently.

Also your blanc bonnet / bonnet blanc remark was on the the front page of Figaro yesterday !

Tough times in France requires tough action, the country has I believe the largest amount / portion of public sector employees in Europe (anywhere?). Le Pen has picked up a lot of far left votes as she has very supportive policies, perhaps Fillion's target of 500,000 public sector job cuts will push her vote up ? Certainly seems socialists will vote today for Jupe.

According to the Express front page Farage is getting death threats. Now
a) I suspect he's telling people for the publicity, given the consomethinge career politician that he is, i.e. it isn't going to happen , and
b) I don't approve of killing politicians, even Farage,

but karma...

Farage is our countries most succesful politican in a very long time. Almost singlehandedly he has carried a movement which has lead us out of the EU. Now he has had a lot of help from an incompetant EU and mainstream politicans ignoring crucial issues but all the same you cannot ignire his startling success.

Gove is on TV as he was crucial in delivering Brexit Referendum result and he is/was a senior member of the conservative party. They are still wheeling out Ken (I've been on the booze) Clarke too so why not Gove ?

Farage is our countries most succesful politican in a very long time.

Tosh. He is controversial even within UKIP and detested outside. He is a narcisstic bully and an embarassement when pretending to represent the UK. He does not speak for me or for most sensible people.

Almost singlehandedly he has carried a movement which has lead us out of the EU.

A badger of shape - singlehandedly (if you insist) caused uncertainty and damage to the UK economy, all of which is unnecessary and unproductive.

Gove is on TV as he was crucial in delivering Brexit Referendum result and he is/was a senior member of the conservative party. They are still wheeling out Ken (I've been on the booze) Clarke too so why not Gove ?

Gove's interview with Islam on Ch 4 should be compulsory viewing lest anyone forget how low the Brexshiteers were prepared to stoop.

Ninfan and jambas - you have both ducked the question. Are you now finally prepared to admit that we had no financial liability to the EZ and that our status made no difference or are you both going to perpetuate a lie?

Farage is so successful that he couldn't get elected in a seat cherry picked for him.

Speaking to guides and company owners the French qualifications are very clearly biased in favour of locals, things like the race times which are very hard to achieve unless you live locally and raced a lot as a kid. Who cares if your ski instructor can tank down a GS course, I care about them being a good teacher and being aware of safety procedures etc.

Even better if they can do all that, teach you to board too, and X-C ski and use touring or Telemark skis.

Junior has the GS and slalom speed tests, and the first rounds of safety and pedagogical training behind him, and still has at least another three years of training before fully qualifying. There's a very different attitude to sporting professions in different countries, I judge the UK system lightweight. Doctors in different countries all undergo similar training in terms of both intensity and time, with similar standards demanded, why not swimming, ski and MTB instructors?

Pretty pro-Brexit speech here;

“We must embrace the enormous opportunities to reshape our country that Brexit has opened for us.

“This means we must not try to re-fight the referendum, or push for a second vote and, if Article 50 needs to be triggered in Parliament, Labour will not seek to block or delay it. To do so would put us against the majority will of the British people and on the side of certain corporate elites, who have always had the British people at the back of the queue. It is time we all were more positive about Brexit.”

... from John McDonnell, like Corbyn and many on the left he knows his political and economic policy goals are only possible outside the EU

Are you now finally prepared to admit that we had no financial liability to the EZ

Labour are headless chickens at the moment and are just trying to hop on the bandwagon. Corbyn knows that the changing wind will favour the centrists not the Corbyn or Mays.

Economic trumoil on the back of Brexit conversely might help the hard left.

[i]... from John McDonnell, like Corbyn and many on the left he knows his political and economic policy goals are only possible outside the EU [/i]

If there were two folk less qualified for running the country, with the except of the Brexiters, these are them.

Two old hacks from a drying political agenda (and this is coming from someone who's voted Labour most of his life) letting an undemocratic PM wield power unchallenged.

"Farage is our countries most succesful politican in a very long time."

Agree. He's achieved everything he wanted in Politics.

Farage has pissed about while other people have delivered what he wanted for him

I could have posted this in the Corbyn thread as there are clear messages for Labour here but this piece from Newsnight references Brexit quite a bit

By your own acceptance, that's simply not true, as we are members of the IMF

A poor swerve my friend - lets put it another way them. Does our membership or not of the EU alter our financial exposure to Greece. You boys keep indicating that it does, but I see no evidence of this. Please help me out or concede.

The clear answer is that it did, up until the change in the rules last year (funny that, they only changed the rules when the referendum was on the cards) however there remain no guarantees that other changes will not expose us to it once again as long as we remain a member. Your 'we have no liability' is the equivalent of the politicians 'we have no current plans to ...'

Except it didn't. We lost no money and got it all back and then the rules changed to litigate against any potential future liability, as I am sure you know. So it was simple yet another lie that sounded vaguely plausible but was nothing more that BS.

as they say in France, plus ca change....

jambalaya - Member
Farage is our countries most succesful politican in a very long time

jambalaya - Member
Farage is our countries most succesful politican in a very long time

Arguable, but let's say he is. In the 1930s there was a certain gentleman who was equally arguably the most successful politician in a very long time - the world would have been better off without him.
Likewise Farage, possibly not quite as nasty a piece of work, but still very nasty.

Success in politics does not equal worth, worthiness or value.

TMH. IMO with 100% certainty the EU would have required us to bail out Greece/eurozone next time around. I would not put it past them to try between now and 2019. There is already noise the EU have come up with a shopping list of "loan commitments" we are "liable for" way way beyond 2019. You will recall Osbourne ran to Junker with his tail between his legs begging for us not to be dragged in as he knew the Referendum was coming. Junker was smart enough to understand this so backed off.

Our best defence is a simple clean hard Brexit as soon as possible

As I have posted before Trump will imo prove to be a firm ally for the UK at the IMF, he is a deal maker and there will be a deal to be done bailing out the EU - it will come at an eye watering price to the eurozone (one Germany may not accept prompting their exit from the euro ?). The IMF has been a bit of a French fiefdom recently DSK then Lagrande. She is smart and may well jump before the real s hits the fan (she moves to Finance Minister under Fillion ?). If she doesn't jump I'll wager Trump/US will put her in a very very difficult spot. The IMF head will be seen (incorrectly) to be screwing the eurozone inc France

Are you unaware that after the last bailout and the "tail incident', the position of non-EZ members was made 100% clear? I posted the links many times. [b]Non EZ members have no financial liability. [/b] Its all clear in black and white text.

If we chose to participate then - as in the last case - that would only be on a 100% collateralised basis and we would rank above EZ members in terms of priority

So to retain credibility you should both stop linking the Brexshit to any liability re the EZ. [b]There is no impact at all. A simple clean Brexshit makes 0% difference on this issue. [/b]

So explain please - and hopefully correctly this time - how Trump can/will influence the IMF?

Endlessly repeating "he's a deal maker' means nothing. Who's the deal best for? The UK (ha!), the US or (more likely) his own balance sheet?

Does this deal making saviour mean that the UK getting power back means we can hand it straight over to The Doughnut?

IMO with 100% certainty the EU would have required us to bail out Greece/eurozone next time around.

Blah blah blah. Jambaliar - the one man propaganda machine. Facts? We don't need no steenkin' facts.

Endlessly repeating "he's a deal maker' means nothing.

Endlessly repeating stuff is what jamba does.

he's a deal maker'

He should write a book about it.

As opposed to putting his name to a book someone else wrote for him.

My wife is watching strictly.

Ed for PM? The hoi polloi love him.

Jamba reminds me of one of our spaff spouting managers who while attending a chemical spill told us that he could categorically state that the chemical probably wasn't dangerous.

As opposed to putting his name to a book someone else wrote for him.

Or open a university to teach his deal-making skills?

[url= https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/nov/27/chance-orderly-brexit-within-two-years-less-than-50-percent-lord-kerr ]https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/nov/27/chance-orderly-brexit-within-two-years-less-than-50-percent-lord-kerr[/url]

another really positive article to go with all the others.

Now can someone please tell me WTF is the point of Brexit? And how the f*** it will get better? or is this for the benefit of my non existent grandchildren????

the one man propaganda machine. Facts? We don't need no steenkin' facts.

More than just me singing from those songsheets given various recent election / referendum results no ? If you want your viewpoint to start winning you (and the politicians) are going to have to come up with some fresh strategies. If what TMH and yourself say is true why did Osbourne even bother to scurry off to Junker ? Look it up there where plenty of column inches.

EU legislation is so extensive and vague they can do what they want and what they want is to save the project which is day by day sliding towards the cliff edge.

Where are all these future liabilities written down TMH ? Where is it written we are liable for EU employee pensions ?

Where are all these future liabilities written down TMH ? Where is it written we are liable for EU employee pensions ?

negotiations.

When you divorce what happens to liabilities and assets such as Pensions?

Who is liable for Farages Pension?

Now can someone please tell me WTF is the point of Brexit? And how the f*** it will get better? or is this for the benefit of my non existent grandchildren????

Assuming it goes ahead and Merkel gets to call the shots at the EU end I imagine itll entail several years of transition, where we can still access the single market but have to pay in a reasonable amount until its all sorted out, 5 years time?
In that instance I imagine that it wont be very painful and we'll be at the good end of the OBR predictions. There's still the huge deficit to deal with, but teh city will keep on raking in the cash.

If the hardcore brexiters get their way and we sever all ties in 2019, it will be expensive, but the country will survive on a shit ton of borrowing, and your grandkids can deal with the increase to our debt (would we finally reach greece/italy levels once we pass 90% of GDP?)

both options suck but one is more manageable than the other

the problem is that neither fix the pain felt by cuts to council funding/nhs/soial care and post industrialisation of the economy that many out voters were led to believe to be the fault of the EU.

There is a chink of light at the end of the tunnel. When Alastair Campbell said "stop this Brexit nonsense ever from happening" on Any Questions he was met with strong applause. Hard to imagine that happening a few months ago.

There is a chink of light at the end of the tunnel. When Alastair Campbell said "stop this Brexit nonsense ever from happening" on Any Questions he was met with strong applause. Hard to imagine that happening a few months ago.

5thElefant - Member
There is a chink of light at the end of the tunnel. When Alastair Campbell said "stop this Brexit nonsense ever from happening" on Any Questions he was met with strong applause. Hard to imagine that happening a few months ago.

Were the 48% too stunned to clap before?

the longer the brexishambles 'negotiations' stagger on, the louder the applause will get

the longer the brexishambles 'negotiations' stagger on, the louder the applause will get

It'll be the same people clapping louder.

nah all those 16 year olds who had their future screwed over by the OAPs will be eligible to vote in the 2nd referndum 😉

And the late 30s will enter their 40s...

And the late 30s will enter their 40s...

and the pensioners will be dead.

And the late 30s will enter their 40s...

Indeed, but they didn't particularly vote to diminish Britain like the oldies did. (Note: generalisation) And the oldies will have given up the right to vote by dying.

If what TMH and yourself say is true

It is 100%

why did Osbourne even bother to scurry off to Junker ? Look it up there where plenty of column inches.

I have, its a habit. I know the chronology, what happened then and afterwards and have given links many times.

EU legislation is so extensive and vague they can do what they want and what they want is to save the project which is day by day sliding towards the cliff edge.

In this case it was very specific. Look it up 😉

If you want your viewpoint to start winning you (and the politicians) are going to have to come up with some fresh strategies.

You seem to imagine that I'm running for office, or something. I'm not. I have no interest in "fresh strategies" for successfully cheating and lying to the electorate, only in uncovering the truth. I realise that that is an alien concept for you, and I have no real expectation that you will get the point, but there it is.

There is a chink of light at the end of the tunnel. When Alastair Campbell said "stop this Brexit nonsense ever from happening" on Any Questions he was met with strong applause. Hard to imagine that happening a few months ago.

I made the same observation about this week's AQ. There were only a couple of nutters ranting about taking control and the will of the people, whereas previously there'd been a whole studio full of them.

It'll be the same people clapping louder.

I made the same observation about this week's AQ. There were only a couple of nutters ranting about taking control and the will of the people, whereas previously there'd been a whole studio full of them.

I think the game changer will be in the new year. IF predicted price rises start to feed through and people start to realise what Brexit means.

Brexit doesn't mean control, you can argue that brussels is remote and that there is no real accountability but the same applies to Westminster. So what does taking control actually mean for the average person??

When pictures of NHS patients on trolleys with no nurses, closed A&Es etc appear in the media, the questions about why politicians aren't doing there job will emerge. When 10-20% rise in the cost of food, fuel, etc that is real and direct, when people discover no pay rises, when councils have to cut even more.

Questions about how much Brexit costs, where are the benefits, etc.

A few more stories about how the triple lock is going to have to be scrapped. How benefits have to be frozen or cut.

Pain, pain and more pain, and maybe the promise of 10-20 years away some benefit that may or may not be realised.