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WHAT FING PLANET ARE YOU ON???
PLANET LEAVE
TJ it's a substantially greater cost to fhe EU as a whole than it is to the UK. The cost to the EU is concentrated innfhe richer more influential countries too. This is withiut countingnthe very substantial benefit countries like
Poland get from workers sending money home.
cchris it was a scenario not a prediction 😉
kimbers maybe, just maybe if Osbourne, Cameron and IMF had come up with some more believable scenarios they may have been held as credible.
Junky my point as I have made many times is they have more to lose and so rationally will want a sensible deal. They may well not be in a position to play "hard ball" come summer 2017. Just imagine a Le Pen win and she announces a Frexit Referendum (or likely just one on the euro).
This is another train smash interview, here from a Labour Shadow cabinet minister nomless. How Labour can call the Tories a shambles I don't know
jambalaya - Member
Pessimist vs optimist. See my point about eurozone collapse.
I assume you see yourself as a pessimist. Certainly you seem to have a fairly pessimistic view of the world where the only way forward is to break things that are doing a sterling job (see what did there?) of providing stability over a 40-50 year plus period. And making predictions of the financial apocalypse to come.
How Labour can call the Tories a shambles I don't know
Oh I don't know maybe a government elected on a control borrowing, increase people's wealth ticket who seem to do neither are regarded as a success in post-truth Britain (not suggesting for an instant that Corbyn et al would do better)
THe cost the UK is clearly more significant. Stop being an arse.
Yeah because the UK economy was in such great shape before we joined the EC/EEC/EU whatever. Some of us remember.
I was only 10 but the accepted view is that a long period of Labour governments stiffling regulation and excessive control had put us in that position. Heath took us into Europe to encourage free trade.
Maastricht was the real turning point, that Treaty should have been the subject of a Referendum or simply rejected outright.
By the way all the snowflake definitions so far sound perfect for describing Brexiteers.
And can I add that with the way their support is gently melting away as the heat goes on the description is pretty apt.
but the accepted view is that
Assertion
Yes I am grumpy and argumentative tonight - feels good
kimbers maybe, just maybe if Osbourne, Cameron and IMF had come up with some more believable scenarios they may have been held as credible.
as credible as the OBR asking the treasury what they had to promise Nissan to stop them leaving and the Treasurie's reply of -ssshhh its a secret ? 😯
http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/business/14923416.Government_refuses_to_disclose_if_financial_promises_were_made_to_Nissan/
nicely sums up the lunacy at heart of our brexishambolic government
You said it was worse for Germany and their [EU]costs are spread between 27 countries rather than being lumped on one.it's a substantially greater cost to fhe EU as a whole than it is to the UK.
And I keep saying this is just factually untrue and if you cannot see it then you are not worth discussing with because you cannot meet the threshold of being able to count. Do i really need to explain to an economist and mathematician why you need to look at what % of our trade is with the EU 45% ish and what % of theirs is with us 4%.my point as I have made many times is they have more to lose and so rationally will want a sensible deal.
you need to be illogic and mathematically illiterate to argue as you do.
There is no way of saying beyond spin and BS, to say it costs the EU more if we leave the free market. Its not even post truth its just a big pile of lies
In essence your argument is that its a bigger fine on a billionaire to be fined 100k than for me to get a 10k fine therefore they have more to lose than i do.
Its just a ludicrous argument.
The cost the UK is clearly more significant. Stop being an arse.
Touche 🙂
I am not sure it is, cumulatively the cost is greater to the EU. You may indeed argue relatively it's greater for the UK. The Dutch alone estimate the cost to them alone is €10bn pa and that's a tiny country. The Germans have to factor in their largest European export market and third largest globally being less attractive plus having to pick up an estimated €5bn a year in extra budget contributions. Then you have to add in the reduced exports the EU will have due to stronger €/£ (this gets even more expensive for Germany if € collapses and DM will be even stronger again)
it is obvious everyone wants a good deal .
but the best deal the uk can get is the one it has now . and you have just thrown it away .
anyway i read the statement and not one mention of the NHS, with all the extra money floating around i would have thought could have bunged a few quid in that direction. But no...
But we're still paying into the EU. Wait until we're out then the NHS will get it all. You'll see.
When will this them and us stuff cease?
Brexshit is a lose:lose scenario. There are no winners*, our fortunes will remain interdependent with those of our major economic partners in Europe whatever.
(*other than the fact that Bojo's hopes of the top seat were quashed and Gove is now on the backbenches where he can do less harm.)
Its a bit of a mess of major proportions - no room for Brexshit smugness. We are all worse off.
The cost is greater but they are more able to bear it as its only 4% of their GDP and 45% of ours. No one argues its the FACTS simply state this just like they state we have a trade deficit with them. To mises the later to claim they will suffer most is disingenuous in the extreme and you must know its total BS as you are not actually economically illiterate.I am not sure it is, cumulatively the cost is greater to the EU. You may indeed argue relatively it's greater for the UK
Oh dear no money for the NHS after all.
What a complete shambles.
Exports are only just over 20% of GDP so EU exports are about 10% of GDP.
a few pages back our local Australian Politics expert mentioned the "backpacker tax" basically up until now you could earn a tax free threshold as a transient worker (Australia a similar amount of working holiday visa's to the numner of EU Migrants to the UK
225,000)
The initial proposal would see these people pay 32.5% tax on mostly low earnings.
The backlash was huge and the government is trying to push through 19% today, the opposition want it at a max of 10%.
The people who employ these guys know that they need them and that at such tax rates people won't do the work (it's not the pay but the tax - the rate originally proposed is what you pay in excess of about £25k UK)
Junkyard - lazarus
mathematician why you need to look at what % of our trade is with the EU 45% ish and what % of theirs is with us 4%.
tbh 45 or 4% probably isn't really what you need to look at, you'd really need to look at individual countries and see where the largest trade exists. that 4% could be skewed to certain countries, but you are using the whole of the eurozone as the financial base.
guess the question that needs asked is per country, what is the percentage of trade.
i don't know, but it does strike me the 4% number could be a little over generous, if the point that's been made is that it won't hurt them, it will probably hurt some more than others.
but the best deal the uk can get is the one it has now
Hmm, that's strange, as we were offered a better deal than the one we had now in the negotiations between Cameron and the EU, that's what was put to us in the referendum, remember?
And the fact is we [b]had[/b] a better deal, before St Tony of Blair handed back a big chunk of our rebate in return for loose promises of CAP reform that never happened
Still, don't let the facts get in the way of good old #remainderbollox
facts and Brexit in same sentence ? 😆
#writte it on a bus
Nigel was presented with a tray of Fererro Roche at a Brexit thank you party today 🙂
Could I ask all you leavers that don't subscribe to the magazine to do so.
Your actions have caused the magazines costs to rise.
You got what you wanted now pay for it.
Posters keep talking in percentages, I am speaking about absolute cost.
cchris we have a terrible deal, one which we would never sign up for from scratch. Did you see Bernard-Henri Levy on Newsnight, Brexit will be much worse for France than the UK
Interesting numbers I saw on the NHS
We pay the Polish £4.5m for treating Brits in Poland
The Poles pay us £1.5m for treating Poles in the UK
Now there are 20,000 (officially just 5,000) Brits in Poland and 800,000 Poles in the UK. So either the Brits are spectacularly less healthy or more likely we don't have the feintest idea what is actually going on.
Weren't you lying about there being millions of Poles in the uk last week Jamba?
We pay the Polish £4.5m for treating Brits in Poland
The Poles pay us £1.5m for treating Poles in the UK
How is the EU to blame for this? Surely that's just the uk not claiming what it is entitled to?
outside the little englander circle jerk
heres a not sanguine look view of farage and 2016
justifiably sweary 🙂
the farage video would be funny if a bunch of alt-right millionaires werent toasting themselves on the day the chancellor announced how much brexit would be costing the country and especially the poorest 🙄
jambalaya - MemberNow there are 20,000 (officially just 5,000) Brits in Poland and 800,000 Poles in the UK. So either the Brits are spectacularly less healthy or more likely we don't have the feintest idea what is actually going on.
They could well be less healthy. Most poles you see in the UK are fairly young. I don't know if the same is true of brits in poland? They could be older, requiring more expensive treatments?
Posters keep talking in percentages, I am speaking about absolute cost.
cchris we have a terrible deal, one which we would never sign up for from scratch. Did you see Bernard-Henri Levy on Newsnight, Brexit will be much worse for France than the UKSo you crash your car, you break a hand but it's OK cause you sent your mate to ice?
jamba, can I just check you're really saying that brexit is a good thing because (you claim) the total damage to the EU27 will be greater than the harm to the UK?
Utterly bonkers.
Here we go again? Don't like the numbers? Numbers are wrong. Wrong kind of experts on the line slowing progress to Utopia
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-38087110
The government has defended economic forecasts in the chancellor's Autumn Statement after criticism by some pro-Brexit MPs that they are too gloomy.
Philip Hammond quoted Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) predictions of increases in borrowing and reductions in economic growth following Brexit.
Ex-minister Iain Duncan Smith claimed the OBR "hasn't got anything right."
But treasury minister David Gauke said it was right to work on the basis that the OBR forecasts were correct.
Ever wonder if the free unicorn everyone was promised is more like this
[img] 
[/img]
and it's about to make a right mess of the garden
Hmm, that's strange, as we were offered a better deal than the one we had now in the negotiations between Cameron and the EU
Yeah, but then we threw that away and voted to leave. Have you been asleep since June, or what?
Bernard henri Levy?
Ah yes the great philosopher 🙄
Brexit will blow £59bn hole in public finances, admits Hammond
Let's hope the Brexiteers can afford that, you can can't you ? Eh ?
For sure it's YOU that's going to have to pay for it.
You better get working, harder for longer, for less money.. You have to keep the intelligent Remain Voters in the standard of living we have made for ourselves, you lot of Morons must pay for the stupidity only You have caused.
Unbelievable Morons.
The brexiters on this thread are in denial. Okay you wanted to leave the EU for whatever reason (who said racist) but you must now see that it is not looking good even before we start.
You can defend your position (who said racist again) but would be good if you could at least admit that it is not as rosy as you maybe thought or hoped.
If in 5 years time the UK is doing far better that it would have done within EU and all the advantages of being outside of the EU have been taken (whatever they are) then I will happily concede that I was wrong in voting remain.
All the Brextits on my Facebook feed have gone quiet.
They were also the ones that used to bang on about Labour being terrible for the economy, causing all that debt ......
Now there are 20,000 (officially just 5,000) Brits in Poland and 800,000 Poles in the UK. So either the Brits are spectacularly less healthy or more likely we don't have the feintest idea what is actually going on.
[img] 
[/img]
Does this help answer the question?
Yes the brits are more unhealthy.
+1 for Kerley it's becoming clear to poor people that this is not quite what they expected.
I am not going to pull apart Hammonds statement it's fairly obvious to any one with ears that the basic message is "its probably going to be shit and your going to have to go without" the only thing that probably gets missed is the productivity issue but that will be fixed by rising unemployment
oh and can i just thank the brexiters for f***ing over the NHS!
"All the Brextits on my Facebook feed have gone quiet."
Calling them racists can make them shut up, but it can't win them round to the Remain POV. Which is how we got here on the first place.
but that will be fixed by rising unemployment
My honest opinion, unemployment won't rise much. There are a lot of migrants who came to the UK because the money was good(ish) and there were plenty of jobs. The pound has tanked, and as soon as the job market starts looking less healthy i expect a substantial number of migrants to look elsewhere. I also expect a large number of UK citizens to look at their own options and look elsewhere. That brexit has made this harder won't stop people looking. Employment will fall, and with it tax revenues, but unemployment won't rise.
And i can think it is fair to say that the triple lock on pensions will be scrapped in the near future as that is the only benefit bill that can provide a meaningful saving.
And at home same time our man of the people, Nigel Farage was having a party to celebrate Brexit success.
What a better place to do it than the Ritz !
+1 for Kerley it's becoming clear to poor people that this is not quite what they expected.
They voted to leave (66:34), they have only themselves to blame. In contrast, educated people voted to the same degree the others way round, Go figure, as they say....
It's absurd for IDS and other Brexshiteers to complain about the ONS forecasts. Leaving aside that the Gov has to use the figures, why are they likely to be inaccurate. Preciely because Brexshit causes massive uncertainty over very sensitive inputs into the model. Hence any forecasting error is magnified hugely.
This is EXACTKY the problem that all business face now and why Brexshiteers should be apologising for their stupidity not BSing about the forecasts. IT'S THEIR FAULT? Arses.
Calling them racists can make them shut up, but it can't win them round to the Remain POV. Which is how we got here on the first place.
You've not met my sister in law 😉
As I've stated before the logical fallacies in the leave campaign were so obvious I can think of no other reason why they'd vote out.
Besides which I was happy to point out that it was economically a bad idea, that cuts to nhs & local services were the problem not GDP boosting immigrants, or that our defence, education and scientific communities all benefitted from EU membership (go and read this thread from the start)
Instead you are blaming us 'remainiacs' for Brexiters ignoring experts and believing ego obsessed cockwombles like farage, Gove , IDS and Johnson !
Obviously it could never be the fault of the muppers that voted for it
Employment depends on the type of Brexit (if it happens) fewer better paid jobs raises productivity
bikebouy - MemberBrexit will blow £59bn hole in public finances, admits Hammond
Let's hope the Brexiteers can afford that, you can can't you ? Eh ?
According to R4 this morning, that value from the OBR was the median value, worst case scenario in their report is £220bn 😯
Any Brexiteers still on this thread ?
You really should be working, sign out, get on with your job.
Keep this mantra rolling over in your mind, sing it out loud if you feel you need to understand the words, make them sink into your brains...
[b]"I must in work harder and longer. I must focus on earning a lot less for putting in more effort, I expect to loose my job/role in the very near future"[/b]
Sing it to the Barbie Girl tune, you know the one..
Also, save as much as you can, you'll need it.
And finally...
Your Mortgage is at risk should you not be able to make the repayments..
Just sayin'.
Instead you are blaming us 'remainiacs' for Brexiters ignoring experts and believing ego obsessed cockwombles like farage, Gove , IDS and Johnson !
I thought the Leave campaign was equally dire.
None the less, although I suspect campaigning effects results far less than we all think, the result was on knife edge. Less abuse from Remainers and more selling the benefits could have resulted in the required 2pc swing.
Mr Farage tells it like it is...
"For those of you who aren't particularly happy with what happened in 2016, I've got some really bad news for you - it's going to get a bloody sight worse next year."
He's bang on the button, with that little gem.
'oood a thought it? Me and Mr Farage agreeing on something... 😯
Your Mortgage is at risk should you not be able to make the repayments..
what percentage of brexit voters have mortgages? pensioners either own outright or benefits(pension), the lower income groups, rent. Both groups can(for now) fall back on the state far more than mortgage payers.
Less abuse from Remainers and more selling the benefits could have resulted in the required 2pc swing.
Difficult to sell the benefits though when the argument is:
if we remain, things will stay the same as they are - we're in the EU, trade agreements (which no-one understands), free movement (which everyone thought = uncontrolled migration) and things will trundle along quite happily.
That's great but things were already shit after years of austerity, systematic dismantling of the NHS, the constant toxic drip-drip of the right wing press stoking fear and people quite understandably didn't want more of the same; they fell for the lies and spin and meaningless platitudes like "take back control" (control of what exactly?!).
No-one even came close to understanding what "leaving" would mean in terms of trade, cross-border laws & regulations, the massive complexity of attempting to unravel 40 years of EU agreements and at a guess, most people won't have believed how any of that or things like exchange rates would affect them.
I genuinely wonder, at what point is someone in Government going to stand up and say "you know what, this is ****ing insane - the UK economy cannot possibly cope with this, the £ is through the floor, we can't possibly deliver on the random woolly fluffy "leave" and all its gold-plated promises (ie lies), the referendum was non-binding anyway so **** it, we stay."
things will trundle along quite happily.
But there's the big lie
EU & Euro area are far from being in great shape, and remaining tied to it is just as much of an uncertainty as leaving it. Your relying on the false security of the status quo like those on the Titanic who didn't get in the lifeboat because they didn't believe it would sink.
No-one even came close to understanding what "leaving" would mean in terms of trade, cross-border laws & regulations, the massive complexity of attempting to unravel 40 years of EU agreements and at a guess, most people won't have believed how any of that or things like exchange rates would affect them.
A lot thought it would just be a piece of p1ss & it would be 1966 all over again.
A lot were bit thick.
A lot wanted to stick 2 fingers up at the establishment.
A few hated the EU & took advantage of the bile that was being stirred up.
It's quite clearly a battle of ideology & fek the consequences i.e. the poor (see above video with millionaires toasting Brexit.....evil kants)
You may hate the previous 2 govs, for a multitude of reasons, but at least they both understood the financial implications of leaving i.e. we'd be royally screwed.....
Your relying on the false security of the status quo like those on the Titanic who didn't get in the lifeboat because they didn't believe it would sink.
so lets scuttle the ship and keep warm by burning the lifeboats.
what percentage of brexit voters have mortgages? pensioners either own outright or benefits(pension), the lower income groups, rent. Both groups can(for now) fall back on the state far more than mortgage payers.
That's easy to solve - State pensions - Scrap them. Why should I continue to pay for someone else's pension for the next 30+ years safe in the knowledge that I won't get one?
the referendum was non-binding anyway so **** it, we stay."
It seemed to me that from 7am on the morning after politicians from all sides were paving the way for exactly that and as time goes on that looks more likely, not less.
If the establishment *really* thought this was feasible they'd have left straight away exactly as David Owen and Nigel Lawson suggested.
Ex-minister Iain Duncan Smith claimed the OBR "hasn't got anything right."
Obviously Ian Duncan Smiths reputation with 'facts' and statistics is impeccable
so lets scuttle the ship and keep warm by burning the lifeboats.
And for many of those who voted Brexit, they will be saying:
'Sounds good to me, we all go down together, but I get the huge satisfaction of watching you all run around panicking and screaming that you don't want to die.
After all, you didn't give a **** when I was suffering did you? That'll learn you, you smug C**t's'
You want to know about suffering? Well you probably won't get to find out as Brexit is cancelled.
Killing Brexit is being brought about by the "death of a thousand cuts" the gradual objection removal by all political sides (cent UKIP) this is why Farage is spouting rhetoric once more - things is the working poor/benefits class and pensioners are now feeling the impact of their vote. It does not take much of a change in their income before the toys in the pram start getting chucked the other way. As my mate the fork lift truck driver said back in June he voted Brexit as he had nothing to loose as I pointed out in June yes you "****ing have" funny same bloke was moaning about the coSt of diesel I said I don't give a shit as I charge 45p per mile
After all, you didn't give a **** when I was suffering did you? That'll learn you, you smug C**t's'
plenty of us have been saying for a long time that Tory austerity; the largest ever cuts to local council funding, closure of libraries, chronic NHS underinvestment, closure of sure start centres etc would hit the poor the hardest
people chose to listen to demagogues and right wing press barons instead
Farage and the right wing press barons were not suffering a lot yesterday when toasting champagne at the Ritz.
They won't be affected and could not care about the people who will.
Turkey voting for Christmas.
Thing is Ninfan I and the middle ground in general have lots more ships and lifeboats *not smug just a simple fact
The more pressure you put on people (financial and security) the more those that can close ranks to protect their tribe it's human nature
EU & Euro area are far from being in great shape
And we are, are we? Now, with our Brexit plans?
They might not be perfect, but there's not much point making ourselves worse, is it? You might live in a leaky old house, but you'd probably not be better off just walking out of the door with the clothes on your back. Or living in the shed.
plenty of us have been saying for a long time that Tory austerity; the largest ever cuts to local council funding, closure of libraries, chronic NHS underinvestment, closure of sure start centres etc would hit the poor the hardest
Ah, think of all the lost social work and graduate posts - the horror!
They didn't want sure start centres and libraries
They wanted decent jobs!
instead they watched their factories closed and moved to Romania & Poland, in the name of your grand European project
Karma bites
Because nobody moved factories to the far east before?
They wanted decent jobs!instead they watched their factories closed and moved to Romania & Poland, in the name of your grand European project
Huh.
So now the government is talking about all sorts of UK investment plans. BUT THEY COULD'VE DONE THIS ANYWAY. They didn't, because they didn't give a shit then.
Sure, cheap manufacturing moves elsewhere. But then invest in the workforce to help them get the better jobs! Not sure about you but I don't want a dead end job in cheap manufacturing.
And Chris makes a good point. Most of our manufacturing is outsourced outside the EU anyway.
x2 post
instead they watched their factories closed and moved to Romania & Poland, in the name of your grand European project
Like Leave hero Dyson's 4000 employee factory in [s]Wiltshire[/s] Malaysia ?
Or like Nissans highly productive factory they opened here to take advantage of EU single market access?
They didn't want sure start centres and librariesThey wanted decent jobs
because theres absolutely no link between the very basics of education and getting decent jobs 🙄
"Because nobody moved factories to the far east before?"
Which goes to prove you can trade with people without a trade deal.
Sure, cheap manufacturing moves elsewhere.
But it's not just 'cheap manufacturing' is it
It's everything
Food manufacturing being a prime example - UK production and quality control undermined by cheap exports from the EU - what happens next? Who gets held responsible when it turns out we are being fed horse meat? Nobody.
Which goes to prove you can trade with people without a trace deal.
Only when the costs are so low that the tariffs don't make it unviable.
Honestly. So much wilful ignorance on this thread. You Brexiters aren't asking questions, trying to find out. You've already made your minds up permanently, and are just trying to rationalise the decision.
I have no idea what's going to happen, in our out. But I've listened to people involved in business and trade, and decided that there are huge huge risks we just don't need. I'm not going to ignore that.
instead they watched their factories closed and moved to Romania & Poland, in the name of your grand European project
They didn't.
Where are the ship yards?
Where are the steel works?
The UK can not compete in a race to the bottom, unless the people are willing to compete on living standards. Are the people of Newcastle willing to live the life of a Foxcon employee? That is the choice.
Why is the worst performing educational group white working class boys? Maybe people need to grow up and realise you are owed nothing. You want a TV then you earn the money, no tax credits, no benefits? You aren't going to become rich through X factor or football.
Do i want to live in a society with no safety net? No not really, but it seems that for many at the bottom that is what they want. No pensions, no NHS, no jobs.
And who is going to suffer? It won't be those with the ability to leave, be it brains or money.
Who gets held responsible when it turns out we are being fed horse meant?
well we arrest those that did it like these guys in aberystwyth and others in NI
Oh wait no its only nasty foreigners that would pollute our british bangers 🙄
Food manufacturing being a prime example - UK production and quality control undermined by cheap exports from the EU - what happens next? Who gets held responsible when it turns out we are being fed horse meant?
So if the poor didn't have cheap exports from EU (or more so China and India) what would they be buying - more expensive UK produce.
How does that make them better off?
If you want to help poor people be better off how about;
Raising minimum wage to £15 (companies would have to reduce higher paid to cover it)
Raising tax limit to £20K (taxes would have to increase on higher earners)
Put rent caps in place (house prices would fall)
The impacts would all be on better off people therefore making a good dent in inequality.
Food manufacturing being a prime example - UK production and quality control undermined by cheap exports from the EU - what happens next? Who gets held responsible when it turns out we are being fed horse meant?
http://www.cps.gov.uk/news/latest_news/peter_boddy_and_david_moss_horsemeat_convictions/
yep nasty Europeans, oh their british.....
http://www.foodmanufacture.co.uk/Food-Safety/FSA-faces-22M-budget-cut-amid-food-fraud-fears
nasty EU cutting the governments budgets....oh its westminster....
how about cutting HMRC staff, obviously the EU to blame for that as well.
border agency cuts, obviously the EU again?
etc
etc
etc
All obviously because of the EU....
do you really believe factories are going to come back after Brexit?
Are you prepared to work for , 14 hours a day?
Good luck with that.
Your relying on the false security of the status quo like those on the Titanic who didn't get in the lifeboat because they didn't believe it would sink.
Trouble is, we don't know whether the ship will sink or not, and while it's listing, quite badly at times, it might yet stay afloat. Except, if I get off I can't help with the bailing out.
So let's all jump overboard - except there aren't any lifeboats, only the promise that something's coming to our rescue. But we don't know if that's the Carpathia, two old fishing boats or a leaky Kayak because the people telling us to get off haven't actually studied the nearby shipping before issuing the command.
Trouble is, we don't know whether the ship will sink or not, and while it's listing, quite badly at times, it might yet stay afloat. Except, if I get off I can't help with the bailing out.So let's all jump overboard - except there aren't any lifeboats, only the promise that something's coming to our rescue. But we don't know if that's the Carpathia, two old fishing boats or a leaky Kayak because the people telling us to get off haven't actually studied the nearby shipping before issuing the command.
Precisely
Uncertainties with both options, we have made the rational decision to sink or swim on our own, masters of our own fate, better to live one day as a lion than die as a sheep and all that.
But let's not pretend that staying on board is inherently 'safe'
do you really believe factories are going to come back after Brexit?
like Trump voters being told that the car production lines will be restarting again in Detroit, they are actually gullible enough to believe this shit. Or maybe they just want to believe it?
But I've said it before, but I really do fear for whats going to happen when the working classes of Newcastle, Rotherham, Cardiff and Rochdale, who voted for this lunacy on the strength of a pack of lies, realise to what extent they've actually been conned.
When the promised answer to all their problems turns out making their already fragile lives even worse, while those making the bullshit promises do quite niecly, thank you very much!
its not going to be pretty
So the (pessimistic) estimate of the cost of Brexit is £60bn over 5 years. The £120bn total Remoaner clickbait headline comes from extra spending / investment.
To put that into context Labour left an ANNUAL budget deficit of £100bn - 'kin 'ell 😯
5 years of Labour overspending £500bn, pessimistic Brexit "cost" estimate £60bn. That's a no-brainer of a choice for me given the OBR is just guessing in a vacuum.
As Mrs May confirmed yesterday at PMQs there is not going to be any second Referendum and A50 will be triggered by the end of March