Not at the time Shirley?
He was from Austria all his life.
But was Austria in the EU when he was pontificating over pussy?
No that was in the 1920s or something 🙂
I note that George O has declared economic warfare on the EU with a cut in the company tax rate. Fiscal dumping at its crudest. Or how to really p off the people you will soon be negotiating with.
Right so we've had pages & months of Brexiteers spouting forth about a brighter future...
can anyone please explain what this so-called brighter future looks like and how they can guarantee it in the medium to long term.
'Cos so far all the @£$3w193$ politico's who promised it have left the building... a bit like Elvis.
Right so we've had pages & months of Brexiteers spouting forth about a brighter future...
can anyone please explain what this so-called brighter future looks like
My wife just texted me that she's just met someone who was glad he voted out as the UK Coal mines will all re-open as we'll stop importing coal from Europe....
can anyone please explain what this so-called brighter future looks like
This royal throne of kings, this scepter’d isle,
This earth of majesty, this seat of Mars,
This other Eden, demi-paradise,
This fortress built by Nature for herself
Against infection and the hand of war,
This happy breed of men, this little world,
This precious stone set in the silver sea,
Which serves it in the office of a wall,
Or as a moat defensive to a house,
Against the envy of less happier lands,
This blessed plot, this earth, this realm, this England
note that George O has declared economic warfare on the EU with a cut in the company tax rate. Fiscal dumping at its crudest. Or how to really p off the people you will soon be negotiating with
except those companies will be thinking about higher operating costs from potential tarrifs, currency devaluation, whatever, and considering what to do - so it's possibly sensible to try and pre-empt with positive action.
Or he could wait for companies to relocate ?
when the summer finally kicks in people on this thread will be complaining that it is too hot...
Even better for my upcoming holiday...
Is it that grim, I'm not convinced. If it plunges below levels seen previously then that is grim, but right now it is only where it bobbed around between 2009 and 2013.
so it's possibly sensible to try and pre-empt with positive action.
+1
But why worry too much about negotiations, we've stuck 2 fingers up, so lets look to the future and just get on with it. If the economy is holding up, while the EU continues to struggle then we'll be in a better position to negotiate. Right now the EU zone isn't looking great, look at the row yesterday between Italy and the ECB over state aid to failing banks.
just get on with it
Get on with what, exactly?
Get on with what, exactly?
Get on with sitting around watching the Conservative party try to find someone with half a clue to sort this mess out.
Is it that grim,
I'd say an 11% drop in less than 10 days is grim
Get on with what, exactly?
Article 50, obviously.
Make all the assumptions that we are going to have to work to WTO rules, and anything better than that will be a bonus.
But we're not actually a standalone WTO member that can work to WTO rules. We'd need to re-join or at least have a change in our membership ratified by the other members.
can anyone please explain what this so-called brighter future looks like and how they can guarantee it in the medium to long term.
[b]Michael Gove MP ?@Gove2016 8h8 hours ago
We need to renegotiate a new relationship with the EU, based on free trade and friendly cooperation. #Gove2016[/b]
This sounds like a top idea. Wouldn't it be great if someone started a group of European countries based on free trade and friendly cooperation. I can't believe it doesn't exist already... 😉
it did, but got hijacked by 'ever closer union'
But we're not actually a standalone WTO member that can work to WTO rules. We'd need to re-join or at least have a change in our membership ratified by the other members
well we'll have to do that then, after article 50. We cannot article 50, wait for it to expire, then join the WTO. With a limbo period in between.
I think a 31 year low in USGBP is significant.
As is three property funds suspending trading.
And Mark Carney saying that the effects of Brexit are 'crystallizing'.
This sounds like a great idea. Michael Gove is a genius. Wouldn't it be a great idea if someone started a group of European countries based on free trade and friendly cooperation. I can't believe it doesn't exist already...
You could say they did a while back, it was called the EEC. After a while it went a bit pear shaped, ended up calling itself first the EC, then the EU, got a flag and an anthem, and the people of the UK decided, for better or worse, to get out. 😉
well we'll have to do that then, after article 50. We cannot article 50, wait for it to expire, then join the WTO. With a limbo period in between.
nope, can't do that either. As we'll still be members of the EU and will be forbidden from negotiating.
I wonder if the leavers thought this was what they might get: Nigel Lawson
to finish, in a word, the job which Margaret Thatcher started,
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36717050 ]BBC linky[/url]
And Nigel Lamont says Brexit is a chance to finish Thatcher's work.
Any comments Ernie?
Edit: too slow again!
By the way, £ at lowest since about 1985 and going down, property funds starting to suspend, BoE saying Britexit issues are [b]starting[/b] to crystallise - not a glowing vote of confidence in the country.
What was the glorious future the leavers promised, where is their plan, can they even agree on what it was the 51.9% voted for (as opposed to voted against - we all know what they voted against - at least I think I do, I'm not even sure of that now)?
Was it a workers paradise free from immigrants stealing jobs, was it a libertarian capitalist paradise free from regulation, was it democratic paradise where you get to choose you leader (how is the election of the be PM going), or was it just for chaos as Nigel Farage suggested today (at least he said he thought chaos was good)?
As we'll still be members of the EU and will be forbidden from negotiating.
Just join the WTO immediately at the end of EU membership, surely we don't have to negotiate to join ?
I think a 31 year low in USGBP is significant.
I thought you lefties were all for it:
We get our WTO membership as part of our EU membership - to use the National Trust analogy its a bit like getting discounted access to joint managed English Heritage sites. As full EU members we are precluded from requesting a change to our membership until we leave the EU. This would have to be ratified by the other WTO members, including the 27+1 EU members which we'd just p$$ed off.
You'd think somebody would've made a plan.
I thought you lefties were all for it:
yeah but we could buy our bike bits from raleigh in thoses days 15% on the price of a groupset now is not to be sniffed at 😉
Nigel Lawson? Finishing Thatchers work? Hang on a minute! You mean that this isn't going to usher in a socialist workers republic, after all?
[img] 
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In fact, it'll mean the complete opposite of that? A sort of neoliberal theme park?
Well I never saw that one coming!
At some point the powers that be will work out its easier to cook up a deal that pleases most of the 48% and a decent number of the 52% than it is to work something out to please the 52%.
I wonder what happens then?
I wonder what happens then?
Well that would answer the question as to why Boris wanted to buy a load of water canons
TurnerGuy - Member
Just join the WTO immediately at the end of EU membership, surely we don't have to negotiate to join ?
It's that simple? Why didn't anyone think about that before?
I think a 31 year low in USGBP is significant.As is three property funds suspending trading.
And Mark Carney saying that the effects of Brexit are 'crystallizing'.
As I'm 53 I can remember the last time the £/$ was here, clearly the world didn't end or we wouldn't all be here today. £/€ relatively stronger of course.
These retail targetted property funds are fundamentally poorly designed. Daily liquidity offered to investors but how do you value property of a daily basis and as it takes months to sell a property the liquidity offered is materially mismatched to the underlying asset. Thus suspending trading is inevitable from time to time.
I am a little bit lost as to how the effects of Brexit are crystalising as we haven't left the EU. What the market and business is doing is trying to work out what might happen foing forward. As our plans become clearer I would expect a recovery in Sterling.
Why did no one have a full working plan in order? Winging it with a countries economy doesn't sound like a good fiscal plan.
Jamba - I can also remember the shed that was Britain in the mid-80s. Makes today's austerity look minor.
Also my suspicion is that the reason the stock market is doing better than the pound is that crafty foreign based types are buying on the cheap. If the pound rises the market will be exposed to the underlying realities of an economy that is about to test its ABS systems.
Could be wrong - I am after all a simple engineer not a financial seer and visionary.
financial seer and visionary
These exist?
What sourcery do you speak of?
As I'm 53 I can remember the last time the £/$ was here, clearly the world didn't end or we wouldn't all be here today. £/€ relatively stronger of course.
So it was all ok then? Is it all ok now?
What sourcery do you speak of?
Why did no one have a full working plan in order?
Because [u]nobody[/u] expected Leave to win.
So it was all ok then? Is it all ok now?
<Checks out window> Sky is still where its supposed to be, no plumes of smoke evident... In my lifetime I've heard nothing but constant predictions of imminent disaster via everything from bird flu to nuclear war, amazingly we're still here, as no doubt most of us will be tomorrow...
Sky is still where its supposed to be, no plumes of smoke evident
That's not really what I asked, is it?
I mean of course there are no major natural disasters and that, but that's not really the issue at stake is it? You're diverting attention from the actual problems by being facetious.
The economy, UK businesses, our jobs - is that all ok now, is that what you're saying?
The economy, UK businesses, our jobs - is that all ok now, is that what you're saying?
We'll cope, we'll pull through, we always do.
Thats what makes Britain [b][u]Great.[/u][/b]
Sorry the "great" bit is so it's not confused with Brittany.
And that's the only actual fact you're likely to get in this discussion.
We'll cope?
Who's WE?
This kind of vague waffle really pisses me off. Sure, the economy will probably only shrink by some percents, the country will continue, but that's not the real story is it?
How many people's lives will be bollocksed up, and for how long? That's the headline issue. The GDP figure is only important because it indicates how shit things will get for the vulnerable. A 5% drop in GDP doesn't mean everyone is simply 5% worse off.
<Checks out window>. In my lifetime I've heard nothing but constant predictions of imminent disaster via everything from bird flu to nuclear war, amazingly we're still here, as no doubt most of us will be tomorrow...
And many of these were from those who were predicting loss of sovereignty, a massive EU financial collapse, and sundry other dire consequences of remaining in.
Why didn't you choose to ignore those too?
