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oh no i was joking about the anti metricers a few pages back
they are real!
https://www.ft.com/content/509006b8-acb7-11e6-ba7d-76378e4fef24
Volkswagen cutting 30,000 jobs. Can you imagine the Brexit hysteria there would be if this was a British company or one located here
@mt Europhile in EU supportive statement shocker
The carmaker will lose 5 per cent of its workforce but promised it would make the cuts through natural attrition and not using compulsory redundancies after striking an agreement with the influential works council labour union.
itll be a bit different if our automotive companies just up leave for the single market 😉
Volkswagen cutting 30,000 jobs. Can you imagine the Brexit hysteria there would be if this was a British company or one located here
no redundancies and c9000 new jobs to be created.
oh and VW shares are up, so someone thinks it is a good idea.
Most of the job losses through not replacing people who retire.
The carmaker will lose 5 per cent of its workforce but promised it would make the cuts through natural attrition and not using compulsory redundancies after striking an agreement with the influential works council labour union.
Can you imagine the Corbyn-bashing hysteria there would be if this was a British company or one located here that had unions strong enough to protect jobs rather than just be ordered back to work after a court grants an injunction?
VW does have a manufacturing plant here, its called Bentley.
Supreme Court allows Scottish and Welsh governments to intervene in Art 50 case and expats and workers’ union too.
[url= https://www.supremecourt.uk/news/interveners-article-50-brexit-case.html ]https://www.supremecourt.uk/news/interveners-article-50-brexit-case.html[/url]
Live stream of proceedings too...
Volkswagen cutting 30,000 jobs [b]worldwide[/b]. Can you imagine the Brexit hysteria there would be if this was a British company or one located here
FIFY.
the same VW that spunked a hefty chunk of revenue up the wall as a result of installing cheat software in it's ECUs?
all the work of 'rogue engineers', aye? 🙄
VW could be hit hard if we leave the Customs Union… especially if paired with an economic downturn across the EU…
I take no joy in the fact that we're likely to be messing up companies, and their staff, all over Europe, not just here, when we finally leave, especially if it's a cold hard break.
Current VW issues aren't really linked to Brexit it any way… but what they decide to do in 2 or 3 years time probably will be.
Do you really think Audi fan bois and California hipsters are going to buy Nissans (assuming Renault gets the conditions May promised) or Astras (assuming GM continues to support Brexit strongholds)? VW has got nothing to worry about in the UK because their customers are prepared to pay over the odds for the VW image.
How does the court rulings above affect proceedings? Is there a chance of salvation or has our demise just been delayed?
If the court rules parliment must vote on A50 as is the current interpretation of UK law, then it may not get voted in.
[url= http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-fresh-blow-for-theresa-may-as-supreme-court-rules-scotland-and-wales-can-intervene-in-article-a7424796.html ]http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-fresh-blow-for-theresa-may-as-supreme-court-rules-scotland-and-wales-can-intervene-in-article-a7424796.html[/url]
Very unlikely though that enough mp will vote against it.
Will the court rule on the initial claim and then on the subsequent or does one ruling cover them all?
Very unlikely though that enough mp will vote against it.
I suspect you are right, but June through to March is a long time, and there does seem less and less appetite for Brexit apart from the the hardcore nutters, so the will of the people might be more favourable to staying in.
I take no joy in the fact that we're likely to be messing up companies, and their staff, all over Europe, not just here, when we finally leave, especially if it's a cold hard break.
Sort of related to that - the whole idea of cross-border standards, laws, regulations etc that apply to companies and to products...
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2016/11/brexit-nightmare-we-will-soon-be-unable-ignore
Unless there is another referendum before the MP vote, there is no way of having people view on Brexit at that point.
And another referendum is never going to happen.
Edukator had many VWs (6) and an Audi and a Porsche plus two Mistsubishis, 2 Toyotas, a Honda and wife has a Nissan. Loooking at another car at the moment as likely to be Japaneese as German. It won't be "American" so no Ford or Vauxhaul.
Most VW job losses in Germany, 20% of their workforce.
how old are you? i thought you kept cars for 10 years?
Supreme Court allows Scottish and Welsh governments to intervene in Art 50 case and expats and workers’ union too.https://www.supremecourt.uk/news/interveners-article-50-brexit-case.html
Live stream of proceedings too...
Cannot wait to see the Wail's headline tomorrow 😆
Not sure if this is [i]that[/i] significant, unless I've misunderstood it.
I think it means Scotland and Wales can provide arguements in existing supreme court appeal? Which would just make it slightly more likely for supreme court to uphold original ruling (to remains benefit).
Or can Supreme Court say "actually you need more than a bill in Parliment, you need agreement from devolved assemblies"?
And in terms of where they were made?
3 x French
2 x British
2 x German
1 x Italian
1 x Spanish
1 x African/French
In 38 years, some being jointly owned with Madame. The shortest ownership was an Audi at 2 months, greedy on fuel, a disappointing drive. The longest a Peugeot at 17 years.
ferrals - Member - Block User - Quote
Supreme Court allows Scottish and Welsh governments to intervene in Art 50 case and expats and workers’ union too.
> https://www.supremecourt.uk/news/interveners-article-50-brexit-case.htmlLive stream of proceedings too...
Cannot wait to see the Wail's headline tomorrow
Online comments in meltdown already
That horrible scottish imp should be locked in the tower.
Get rid of the sour faced Gorbals cow and give us all a bit peace, and save our money!
the fish breathed Crankie won't end up stopping it. She clearly wants to annoy us enough to kick Scotland out of the Union. What she doesn't realise is that without English money the Scots are finished
It says that it is very unlikely that the Court will agree that Scottish parliament need to vote too.
At least brexit and the claims of a return of soveriegnty have been showed to be a sham.
The brexiters are, and never have been interested in it.
The comments on all these stories are brilliant, blame the messenger (Carney usually), blame the media (usually the "pro" EU BBC), blame the immigrants, blame the EU, blame everyone except the idiots who decided to embark on this fiasco in the first place.
From the Express comments
Since WHEN is the supreme court allowed to make POLITICAL decisions.
THAT is a matter between the people and parliament.
Urrmmmm.... some people are seriously clueless 😯 😆
If Necessary the fight must be taken to the streets, the remainiacs will find out how precarious life can be.
If Necessary the fight must be taken to the streets, the remainiacs will find out how precarious life can be.
Are the Brexiters actually threatening civil war????
Only if it doesn't clash with Eastenders.
Are the Brexiters actually threatening civil war????
Nothing more daring than online comments would ever happen.
Are the Brexiters actually threatening civil war????
Nothing more daring than online comments would ever happen.
we already have one dead MP and a few other deaths. So whilst i doubt a full civil war and do not doubt that some idiots will take such language as justification.
how old are you? i thought you kept cars for 10 years?
🙂 53 had the Porsche, 1 Toyota and 1 Mitsubishi 10 years ... at one stage we had 5 cars. The new wife has had her Nissan 10 years.
Are the Brexiters actually threatening civil war????
I am not a fan of civil war but it's fair to say I would be a very very unhappy bunny. I would definitely take to the streets. I would consider any anti-Remain / EU campaigns or action people might suggest.
any
really?
shock horror, some things are best done collectively.
First time since 23rd of June that you don't seem 100% confident Jambalaya.
Rioting Brexiters would be a strange mix, all the EDL/BNP racists who still want revenge for Raol Moat in the vanguard
A lot of very old grumpy pensioners angrily demanding a return to imperial measurements and death to all gay Olympic fencing judges.
Then you'd get all the egomaniacal Brexiters like Farige, Mogg, Hannan reveling in the power they so desperately crave.
Not at all, just answering the question. I could be wrong so my answer reflects that scenario.
VW layoffs reflect the sickness of Europe's economy and the real pain hasn't even begun yet.
Kimbers and me of course 😉
See when I was out campaigning and on the street stalls I didn't see anyone from those groups you list aside from a few pensioners.
The sickness in Europe affects the UK, Brexshit or no Brexhsit - so what is the point that you are trying to make Jambas. We are not suddenly going to transform the UK from an economy that is highly interdependent with Europe to one that is independent overnight.
There is nothing positive in Europe slowing/weakening for - to coin a terrible phrase - them or us
p.s. I liked your fetching orange jacket on QT last night but was surprised to see TJ in tweed jacket and a tie!! 😉
Maybe you missed the previous page but vw are not laying of staff, they are not replacing the ones who retire. And it seems that their problems are more to do with a software issue in the US.
[url] https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/nov/18/northern-ireland-campaigner-to-challenge-brexit-in-supreme-court [/url]
keeps on giving,
VW layoffs reflect the sickness of Europe's economy and the real pain hasn't even begun yet.
You seem to take it quite personally that Germany ( now France too thanks to Brexit vote) has a stronger economy than Britain?
As THM points out your reductionist view of the world is deeply flawed;
them and us,
good and evil,
simple answers to complex questions
These are all indicative of a failure to understand the realities of the world.
VW layoffs reflect the sickness of Europe's economy and the real pain hasn't even begun yet.
I thought the devalued pound was meant to help exporters.....
We are not suddenly going to transform the UK from an economy that is highly interdependent with Europe to one that is independent overnight.
That can't be right - Theresa May has been working hard to create economic ties with India.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/nov/14/narendra-modi-pledges-to-ease-india-cash-crisis
VW layoffs
#jambafact
we already have one dead MP and a few other deaths. So whilst i doubt a full civil war and do not doubt that some idiots will take such language as justification.
true so I guess the numbers protesting would be low but the unsavoury side of society. I'd still put money on a lot of angry comments on facebook and perhaps a few protests but nothing more.
DrJ - dont fall into the Brexshit camp of confusing stories for effect. The Indian cash story is for a v specific reason has nothing to do with any of this. More pertinent might be to point out to Jambas how a company who he used to work and which championed itself as a UK business targeting the high growth economies of Asia, the ME and Africa has seen a massive fall from grace and de-rating.
That should remind everyone of the perils of chasing the emerging market pot of gold!!
The Indian cash story is for a v specific reason has nothing to do with any of this.
Well, the relevance of the Indian cash story is that Mother Theresa is seeking succour from a country where only 50% of people have bank accounts, and where large parts of agriculture have ground to a halt at a crucial time because they have no cash to pay for labour. If that ain't a sign of desperation, I don't know what is!
SCB just ran out of steam, profit growth had been driven by the "investment bank" and withdrawl of competitors post 2008. As Asia too has slowed the profit growth dried up and hence the stock got re-rated in line with most banks. People have been wary of the Indian loan book for the longest time, far too much smoke and mirrors imo but the big losses have come from the Middle East and a fraud in China.
Some interesting thoughts (statements of obvious from my perspective) on Italy from the Spectator
Though he is a big fan of the European Union, Barack Obama brings bad karma to it. So perhaps he should not have chosen Greece and Germany, [b]the two countries which illustrate so poignantly why the euro is doomed, [/b]for his last foreign tour.The Italian economy, meanwhile — which Renzi boasted he would sort out — [b]is a prisoner of the euro and remains mired in recession.[/b] Italy’s GDP has shrunk by 8 per cent since 2008 while Britain’s, for example, has grown by 8.2 per cent. Italy’s unemployment rate remains stuck at around 12 per cent (youth unemployment is nearly 40 per cent). Public debt keeps growing and is now 135 per cent of GDP — the third highest in the world by that measure. Italy’s banks — including Monte dei Paschi di Siena, the world’s oldest, founded in 1472 — are in deep trouble. They are badly undercapitalised and hold €360 billion of bad loans — the equivalent roughly of a fifth of Italy’s GDP.
http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/11/italys-heading-for-its-own-brexit-moment/
true so I guess the numbers protesting would be low but the unsavoury side of society. I'd still put money on a lot of angry comments on facebook and perhaps a few protests but nothing more.
Anders Breivik
It doesn't take many to kill a lot.
I don't have the numbers to hand, but i am sure that i read that right wing extremists have killed far more in Europe that Islamic terrorists. Yet which group is it that the Media point too as being a threat?
mrmo I would guess Westland/GKN's business is mostly domestic, closure more likley due to defence budget cuts I would imagine
DrJ this is the BBC headline "Volkswagen plans 30,000 job cuts worldwide" job cuts vs layoffs ? The 23,000 in Germany is 20% of their entire workforce
I don't have the numbers to hand, but i am sure that i read that right wing extremists have killed far more in Europe that Islamic terrorists. Yet which group is it that the Media point too as being a threat?
Not in the last 5, 2 or 1 years. The historic problems in Spain etc have largely been dealt with. Islamic Terrorists are by a country mile the biggest threat we face today.
DrJ - you need to do some more work on the Indian economy I'm afraid.
Jambas, SCB and HSBC demonstrated that making money in the markets you would prefer us to focus on is no easy path. Its an illusion to suggest otherwise.
We know that the € is doomed and that among its flaws was a lack of mechanisms for recycling the surpluses created by Germany (from Italy, Greece) etc in order to allow the system to work. The Germans have always had a wonderfully myopic view of the appalling construct that they devised to benefit no one but themselves. They will pretend that a solution does not require creditors to take a haircut next!!!
DrJ - you need to do some more work on the Indian economy I'm afraid.
No doubt, but we can't all aspire to your level of expertise now can we?
DrJ this is the BBC headline "Volkswagen plans 30,000 job cuts worldwide" job cuts vs layoffs ? The 23,000 in Germany is 20% of their entire workforce
And most will be from early retirement, so not layoffs. As has been explained above.
[url= http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/lone-right-wing-extremists-kill-and-harm-more-people-than-islamist-terrorists-a3276876.html ]http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/lone-right-wing-extremists-kill-and-harm-more-people-than-islamist-terrorists-a3276876.html[/url]
so a couple of big attacks by Islamists since this, but the underlying issue remains. Far too much coverage given to a more predictable foe.
And it seems that their problems are more to do with a software issue in the US.
deliberately writing software to act is a particular manner is not a software issue!
I was being sarcastic 😉
the money tree keeps on giving.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38049254
And a Blair doesn't even want to get involved!!
I like the photo they used on the Guardian story:
[img] 
?w=620&q=20&auto=format&usm=12&fit=max&dpr=2&s=f402137c9723cb52aeb43c57ae438fbe[/img]
Just so we could check that May still casts a shadow. 😀
Jeeez the BBC post some nonsense. Over on the right of that page there's a link to the French primary results. They persistently describe Fillon as centrist or centre-right whilst Europe 1 (capitalist radio) is describing him as droite-catholique or hard right. Does the BBC not employ anyone who has a clue about French politics?
They persistently describe Fillon as centrist or centre-right whilst Europe 1 (capitalist radio) is describing him as droite-catholique or hard right.
it's right, just the BBC have just re-aligned the centre to somewhere right of Goebbels.
The centre of the political spectrum varies by country. So someone could easily be described as centre-right in one country and hard-right in another.
https://www.ft.com/content/9cfdad52-ada7-11e6-9cb3-bb8207902122
Across the EU as a whole, 62 per cent of those polled would vote to stay in the EU compared with 57 per cent in March, according to Bertelsmann’s polling which covered nearly 15,000 respondents. The poll was conducted in August 2016 a few weeks after the British referendum.In Britain, support rose to 56 per cent after the Brexit vote, compared to 49 per cent before. Approval rates fell in Spain to 68 per cent, but rose in the other four big continental member states – Germany, France, Italy and Poland.
so corporation tax has to be skashed to prevent companies leaving post brexit
is this included in the 100bn shortfall or is this loss in tax revenue already factored in?
either way following the Irish model doesnt seem to be the best idea , it didnt work out well for them!
That's great news.
Across the EU as a whole, 62 per cent of those polled would vote to stay in the EU compared with 57 per cent in March, according to Bertelsmann’s polling which covered nearly 15,000 respondents. The poll was conducted in August 2016 a few weeks after the British referendum.
In Britain, support rose to 56 per cent after the Brexit vote, compared to 49 per cent before. Approval rates fell in Spain to 68 per cent, but rose in the other four big continental member states – Germany, France, Italy and Poland.
Very interesting - the greatest advert for the benefits of the EU has been a referendum where the outcome was a preference for leaving 🙂
As a committed Remainer who's spent time living in France and has always seen the EU as a good thing I have to admit I've been utterly complacent about its benefits and always assumed most other people accepted it to, accepting that while it had faults, the essential purpose of binding European people together was seen as an overall worthwhile objective.
To be honest I think that's still true - all that's happened really is that a few far-Right individuals have (like another certain Far Right individual 80 years ago) exploited the fear of change and realisation that the economy's in serious long term trouble to serve their own agenda...
Now we see those benefits at risk and we see what we'll lose by leaving, it's interesting that public opinion is swaying back towards remain...
IMO there's a deliberate campaign by all the vested interests in Remain (most of the Press, most MPs, large corporates, BoE, most European Heads of State, America (for now), foreign investors e.g. Japan, the City (all very powerful groups) to bring about buyers' remorse and bring us to a point of either a second referendum or a general election fought purely on EU membership. If I were running that campaign I'd be doing my best to publicise polls like this and I'd also recognise that we need to experience some real pain to ensure a clear mandate for Remain next time the vote goes to the People. Whether Theresa May is part of this campaign or not, I'm really not sure...
Despite considering myself 100% absolutely anti-Tory on ideological principles, I was actually pretty shocked to realise that I would vote for any main party, EVEN Tory, if they promised to scrap Brexit.
They won't though so it's a moot point, but still.
Reuters did an interesting piece on the change in Theresa May's language on Brexit last week. Just observational, but interesting.
http://uk.mobile.reuters.com/article/idUKKBN13D0MK?utm_source=applenews
Meanwhile if we're doing the winds of change, it appears even Mother Nature is against Brexiteers.
http://uk.mobile.reuters.com/article/idUKKBN13D0MK?utm_source=applenews < :wink:
PS sorry if these have been done, I've had a day or two detoxing from this thread.
No doubt, but we can't all aspire to your level of expertise now can we?
You can indeed Doc - and having a more accurate understanding of the Indian economy would be a good start. You recent summary missed the point spectacularly and was (unintentionally I would suggest) damning and rude towards India and its people.
PS sorry if these have been done, I've had a day or two detoxing from this thread.
should be sorry for posting the same link! 🙂
Daily mail headline: PM faces fury after hinting at 'transitional' Brexit deal to appease City firms that could see us tied to the EU for YEARS
The comments section goes wild again!
Klunk - I am.
Here you go
Of course there is a grand tradition of repeatedly posting the same thing on this thread. 😉
and in the tradition of looking to god. God doesn't want brexit and this is how he punishes those that have called for it....
Be fair. It was probably only Mother Nature.
Theresa May flip-flopping a bit today.
Crikey - I can hear the Mail readers heads exploding from here...
[url= http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-eu-court-of-justice-article-50-vote-theresa-may-legal-challenge-a7430171.html ]http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-eu-court-of-justice-article-50-vote-theresa-may-legal-challenge-a7430171.html[/url]
[img] 
[/img]
Not sure why the remainders keep thinking they can change their fate. 😆
@kimbers my guess is the Corporation Tax play is to throw the gauntlet down to EU/Ireland/Luxembourg - there are thise (not me) that propose ultra-low corporation tax as it's so easy to avoid these days with a focus instead on sales tax and employee based taxes.
@igm taking a detox is a good idea 😉
@mattyfez that is exactly why we should [b]never[/b] have become embroiled in the project and certainly not signed Maastricht or Lisbon Treaties. Even if the story turns put not to be what will happen the very fact it can be written shiws why we had to get out.
There is so much focus on every word spoken by Cabinet and PM journalists are having a field day writing anti-Brexit stories for maxium clickbait ad revenue
Finally a note on opinion polls, just like Scots and EU Referendums and the US election the French Republican vote was misrepresented. Figaro one of the major French dailys got it totally wrong
Jupe 36
Sarkozy 30
Finon 18
Actual result
Finon 44
Jupe 28
Sarkozy 20
Something needs to be done about what I think is manipulative polling