Her leadership bid statement basically said: Leaving, leaving, definitely leaving. But. Until we've agreed on a coherent negotiating strategy we won't be going anywhere near the Article 50 button.
Plenty of scope to end up saying in 9 months' time that they've had a really good look into this, had a proper think and there is no coherent exit strategy that will give anything like what the various leave campaigns promised without making sacrifices that would, on balance, be unacceptably detrimental to the economy of the UK, and the lives of the majority of people living here.
Until we've agreed on a coherent negotiating strategy we won't be going anywhere near the Article 50 button.
[url= https://c3.staticflickr.com/8/7590/27802826570_592be31274.jp g" target="_blank">https://c3.staticflickr.com/8/7590/27802826570_592be31274.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/JmQKGN ]Untitled[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/brf/ ]Ben Freeman[/url], on Flickr
Early days yet but it appears that Merkel is distancing herself a bit from Junker and Tusk with regards to trade talks. We are simply too big a market for both France and Germany to Sh@ft us as much as Junker and co would like.
No need for any shafting, just applying the normal rules leaves us no better off (arguably, worse, as we lose our voice in the EU).
Like already exists? I'm a Brit living in Oz, voted in the referendum, voted in GEs, and can for 15 years since date of departure from the UK.
No @zokes like exists in those countries where there is no time limit
@Inbred yes agreed. She has an election to win and Germany losing preferential access to it's third largest car market is not a vote winner.
TMH not sure how Osbourne is allowed to make such a statement ahead of a leadership election, its up to the new leadsr and his/her Chancellor to determine bidget etc. Personally I think he's sh.t stirring
@Rond no Apple doesn't even pay Irish Corp tax, they have other elaborate and government approved swerves
The government had a plan! It was to remain in the **** EU!
🙂 However, it is generally prudent to have a plan for more than just your preferred outcome.
the poor and disenfranchised who have just voted to be kicked in the nuts with an even bigger boot..
Rightly or wrongly, they feel they've got nothing to lose:
Let's be really clear Osbourne is making a proposal on corporation tax, it has no policy weight particualry as its not clear he will even be Chancellor under the new PM
@ninfan indeed, those Remainers here don't seem able to understand these people's logic. They don't care about what's on the side of a bus. Many Remainers here could not appreciate theirs was the establishment campaign and that the grass roots anti-establishment vote was Leave.
I'm confused Jamba, THM - how come corporation tax cuts are now being portrayed as some sort of ultra right wing conspiracy? wasn't cutting corporation tax to stimulate business one of the key pledges of Alex Salmond and the SNP during the indyref?
TheCaptain normal trade rules may not apply in this case. I think Germany is very worried that it may lose more than it gains by imposing tariffs. Tariffs work both ways and we like our German goods but if we think our BMW's and Audi's are going to cost us more because of punitive measures by Brussels we could easily go for Jags and Lexus. There is more to this and certainly I think we may be surprised as to the direction that the negotiations go. Early days.
There won't be tariffs, there will be a single market with free movement of labour, though there may be some token restriction on immigration.
Anyway, Standard Life just shut off sales in their property fund. I doubt they will be the last. Surprised it took so long, to be honest.
Interesting piece on C4 news just now - Lloyds of London aren't waiting for the politicians.
Tariffs work both ways and we like our German goods but if we think our BMW's and Audi's are going to cost us more because of punitive measures by Brussels we could easily go for Jags and Lexus.
Assuming we're still making Jags in the UK, JLR are making more and more production overseas now, most of China's sales are made in China.
Interesting piece on C4 news just now - Lloyds of London aren't waiting for the politicians.
And are doing what?
grass roots anti-establishment vote was Leave.
If you think Boris, Farage, IDS & Gove are "Men of the People" then you are in for one F of a shock!
Rightly or wrongly, they feel they've got nothing to lose:
So the deprived state of Doncaster is solely because of the EU, eh?
I do love how people failed to realise that the depravity of their local area doesn't solely or probably even a tad lay at the fault of the EU but by UK governments over the years failing to address the issues at hand i.e. helping growth of alternate industries to replace those that were lost.
Now they've likely just increased or prolonged the depravity due to this "hey UK government, here's a big F U vote".
So the deprived state of Doncaster is solely because of the EU, eh?
No, but it was probably their only chance to say FU and screw up everyone else's lives....
Now they've likely just increased or prolonged the depravity due to this "hey UK government, here's a big F U vote".
Turkeys voting for xmas etc...
I'm all for building a wall and moving all the outers North of it and they can sort themselves out....
People associate the political elite of the UK with the political elite of the EU - they're all the same faceless lot who don't give a toss about them, who seem to prosper while they get left behind. General Elections don't seem to make a difference no matter who is voted in. They want a change from the norm and the political elite of the last 20 years of governments that they feel have failed them.
But they just got the same elite this time drawn from the [s]bastard[/s]tough love end of the scale.
They cannot possibly think this just ushered in an era of change other than more so only worse.
What I find rather saddening is why it took Brexit to happen before those in the EU started asking questions. Juncker and his un-elected cronies are clear evidence of everything that is wrong with the EU.
[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/03/angela-merkel-to-oust-jean-claude-juncker-as-europe-splits-deepe/ ]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/03/angela-merkel-to-oust-jean-claude-juncker-as-europe-splits-deepe/[/url]
I suspect Juncker will be forced out within a month or so.
[quote=ninfan ][s]Rightly or[/s] wrongly, they feel they've got nothing to lose:
There, that was easy and should save time
[quote=jambalaya ]@ninfan indeed, those Remainers here don't seem able to understand these people's logic. They don't care about what's on the side of a bus. Many Remainers here could not appreciate theirs was the establishment campaign and that the grass roots anti-establishment vote was Leave.
You seem to be having trouble comprehending. Yes, we get why lots of people voted to Leave - clearly there were all sorts of reasons, most of them wrong (as in the people aren't going to get what they voted for). Some people might not care what's on the side of a bus, but I've seen enough reports of people saying they voted because of that extra £350m for the NHS. Don't claim this as some sort of mandate to leave and screw those people even more.
[quote=flanagaj ]What I find rather saddening is why it took Brexit to happen before those in the EU started asking questions. Juncker and his un-elected cronies are clear evidence of everything that is wrong with the EU.
Which is where I'm really conflicted. I really dislike Juncker - because he doesn't care about the individual countries, let alone the people, simply about the project. Hence (well not just him, but the rest of it) why I was very tempted to vote Leave - it just wasn't the pragmatic thing to do, and I suspect a 52/48 vote for Remain would have exerted sufficient pressure to change things - albeit somewhat slower.
the poor and disenfranchised who have just voted to be kicked in the nuts with an even bigger boot..
Rightly or wrongly, they feel they've got nothing to lose:
Can I blame fatcha yet?
Even worse for the disenfranchised outers the next few years of Brexit induced recession will hit them the hardest,
Does anyone actually believe that our new rightwing government hobbled by the cost of Brexit will start funding libraries and Surestart again, let alone investing in high wage jobs for the poorest towns?
As ninfans video nicely highlights, austerity has been the icing on the turdcake legacy of 30 years of rightwing government and the ludicrous myth of trickledown prosperity.
...... Just waiting until the next shite pedaling jisweasel demagogue comes along, with a new bogeyman to blame and society & politics gets ever more divisive.
kimbers - MemberCan I blame fatcha yet?
Not really, about a week ago on this thread you posted a picture of rubbish piled up high in a street to emphasis just how bad things were in the UK in the 1970s.
Thatcher sorted all that out, don't you know ?
Although the point you were making was how awful life was in the UK before we joined the EEC.
No, Ernie , my point was that the EU saved us from that....... 😆
My point was that people saying that life in the UK pre-EU was a rose tinted utopia of peace and prosperity were wrong
Thank you for telling me what I really think though
Which is exactly what I said your point was.
Actually that came across rather aggressive ernie, sorry
What I'm trying to say is that we could have joined the EU and [u]not[/u] spent the next 40 years channelling the fruits of free movement and the single market away from the post industrial areas and into the London property uberbubble
next 40 years channelling the fruits of free movement and the single market away from the post industrial areas and into the London property uberbubble
@kimbers there is a massive tax transfer from London/SE to the rest of the country. London property is as it is due to foreign buyers, people love London, our democracy rule of law and open and welcoming society. We are far more open than many (most) other countries. We do have a North/South issue which is particularly stubborn given the move to kore technology and service based industries.
As an aside have a very smart friend (leader in cognitive behavioural therapy - invited to be a member of the Royal Society) say Farage would be unemployed now. He had no understanding that as we are still full members of the EU and would be for years yet Farage was still a fully paid up MEP along with all our representatives.
jambalaya - Member
people love London, our democracy rule of law and open and [b]welcoming society[/b]
😆
Newsnight reporting that investment funds pulling money out of the UK economy 'exactly mirrors the start of the banking crisis'
Brilliant! Just ****ing brilliant, you cockwombles! 🙄
But we got our country back!
Actually that came across rather aggressive ernie, sorry
No worries, I have a Corbyn-like ability to shrug off that sort of stuff.
London property is as it is due to foreign buyers, people love London, our democracy rule of law
Especially the Russian oligarchy/mafia.
Especially the Russian oligarchy/mafia.
Damm EU-Ski's at least getting out means we can stop them coming in 😉
I don't think jambalaya wants to stop these foreign buyers who love our democracy and rule of law from coming to London.
He wants to be open and welcoming to the Russian oligarchy and Saudis who push up London property prices.
In or out of the EU we can still guarantee that.
Newsnight reporting that investment funds pulling money out of the UK economy 'exactly mirrors the start of the banking crisis'
As someone who saw that up close from July 2007 onwards I can tell you our current situation is nothing like that at all. Add to that the banks are materially better capitalised than they where back then.
We've had a retail orientated UK property fund closed, I thought everyone wanted such "buy to let" investment vehicles closed anyway ?
A little short term volatility is a price worth paying for a brighter future
Yeah! Stick it to the man! Putin the homo-erotic shark wrestler and his corrupt gangster mates are going to be absolutely gutted that we're going to be out of the EU, aren't they?
Hahahaaaaaaaaa! Brilliant!
Oh..... hang on a minute..... just thinking about it, they're going to be bloody ecstatic instead, arent they? For all manner of reasons.
Cheers for that too, you cockwombles! 😕
A 'price worth paying' Eh Jammers?
From his masters voice. Funny how all the people, from that bitch onwards, who say that things are a 'price worth paying' are never actually the ones picking up the cheque
A little short term volatility is a price worth paying for a brighter future
Ah yes the brighter future, will there be free cake, I like cake, tell me there will be cake...
Of course the brighter future is not available to everyone, and many will probably suffer along the way but it's worth it. Anyone told us what the brighter future actually looks like and hasn't changed their mind or run so far from it they are nowhere to be seen?
Hahahaaaaaaaaa! Brilliant!
Oh..... hang on a minute..... just thinking about it, they're going to be bloody ecstatic instead, arent they? For all manner of reasons.
Not to mention Murdoch, who's behind the scenes orchestrating this whole affair: he's got exactly what he wanted.
A little short term volatility is a price worth paying for a brighter future
A little?!
You obviously have a talent for understatement! Take a look around you Jamba - there's a lot of grief already & worse to come!
open and welcoming society.
Mmmm, yes I'm sure it seems REALLY welcoming in the current atmosphere....
FFS..
And so the frightfully amusing game continues. Is it all simply super fun?
[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/04/boris-johnson-backs-andrea-leadsom-for-prime-minister/ ]Boris back whtasername[/url]
Does anyone seriously care what this spineless idiot thinks any more? Surely to christ you can't lend this buffoons words a single solitary scrap of credibility. But the parlour game at the top of the Tory party continues. Its all a jolly wheeze isn't it. Its a good job theres nothing important at stake eh?
And as for his preferred [s]method to stab Gove in the back[/s] candidate? [url= http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/that-andrea-leadsom-sounds-like-a-right-****g-nightmare-says-britain-20160703110101 ]Well....[/url]
Does anyone seriously care what this spineless idiot thinks any more?
I would have thought by now people would have stopped underestimating Boris, getting out of this race is a win. He will return.
There's already an amusing effort for Brexiters to boycott Easyjet as they are looking to relocate to a new HQ within the EU
I like the concept that a true outer can only buy truly British, hope, renthal and orange only an an outies bike
Leadsom was my constituency MP when I lived in Brackley. I went to a hustings and asked her views on AV. she didn't know how AV worked (but didn't like it) and dismissed working with any other party as unworkable Seemed to be a "toe the line" Tory, mind you, in Brackley you could pin a blue rosette on a turd and it would win. She's not leader material. Shes far too dull and stupid for that.
