Forum menu
How long before they say - We've screwed up, let's forget it and start again?
never .
How long before they say - We've screwed up, let's forget it and start again?
It was over 40 years last time. 😀
What is clear is that the result of the Referendum is far more positive than project fear from Cameron/Osbourne/IMF/OECD/Obama etc would have had us believe.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37902922
🙄
Is that £25bn additional borrowing per annum by 2020, or 'just' an additional £25bn extra borrowed - or something else?
Not quite clear, at least to me anyway - any expert know better?
Well the odd thing is Hammind has eased "austerity" as a result of the Referendum
I think you mean Osborne abandoned his goal of balancing the books by 2020, because he realised that we'd need to splash around a bit of cash to ease the pain from Brexit. Yes?
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/jul/01/george-osborne-scraps-2020-budget-surplus-plan
Hammond is just "reiterating" that the goal was dropped
http://www.hl.co.uk/news/2016/10/3/hammond-confirms-break-with-osborne-by-dropping-uk-fiscal-goal
He also seems to have misplaced Osborne's goal of dropping corporation tax to 15%:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/philip-hammond-ditches-george-osbornes-15-corporation-tax-cut-target-a7342771.html
I can't tell either. The [url= https://www.ifs.org.uk/uploads/publications/bns/BN188.pdf ]actual report[/url] looks a bit wooly.
It was over 40 years last time.
😀
He also seems to have misplaced Osborne's goal of dropping corporation tax to 15%:
That was just Osbourne shooting his mouth off after the Referendum in the full knowledge he was going to be sacked.
@Pigface £25bn by 2020 is far better than the Remain scenarios. I read it as cumulative. In any case it's an IFS projection against many unknowns. As per the report @hot_fiat the IFS is EU funded 😉
So can anyone provide an explanation as to why Brexit means RyanAir are CUTTING prices ?
My only thought is its an agressive stance from O'Leary to maintain/increase passenger numbers against what he believes will be reduced demand for flights given lower £ - ie fewer Brits oitweighing more foreign tourists ?
[i]My only thought is its an agressive stance from O'Leary to maintain/increase passenger numbers against what he believes will be reduced demand for flights given lower £ - ie fewer Brits oitweighing more foreign tourists ? [/I]
Sounds right.
b r 🙂 I was hoping others may have a theory rather than just saying mine is credible, but thanks anyway !
Ryanair flights are very often subsidised by local regions they flight to. I remember a case in France Where Air France took legal action.
And they are renowned to lock their fuel purchase prices for a long time.
Indeed a series of diasterous left wing Governments. Heath took us into the EEC as it was a free trade zone which put the reigns on the left. Ironic now that centre keft (not Corbyn et all) want to keep us in the put the reigns on the right.
Jamba. you can blame it on right or left, but the fact is that the UK was collapsing and had been for decades, What was the point of the UK in the 50's 60's 70's etc. The empire had gone, no one owed us a living anymore.
The problem will still have as is clear from many of the brexiter comments is that their is a belief that the world owes us something. Times change the world is no longer individual countries rather it totally connected. What ever happens next the UK is not and can not be in complete control of its destiny.
It will need to trade, it will need to compete, and this means being good at something. The comments coming from Westminster are deluded on so many topics.
My only thought is its an agressive stance from O'Leary to maintain/increase passenger numbers against what he believes will be reduced demand for flights given lower £
In their position as the low cost provider, they can increase market share even as total volumes fall due to rising prices. Even as their prices rise.
Times change the world is no longer individual countries rather it totally connected.
Has any country in the world actually deliberately REDUCED its integration with other countries, since the war?
@molgrips you'll have to spell it out mode simply. Why are they cutting prices, if what you say isntrue they could achieve that holding them constant as ofhers are forced to raise.
@cchris yes agreed with all of that, however I don't see that as why they are cutting prices. As an aside fuel hedging is interesting and I worked on that quite a bit when in Singapore with regional arlines there.
Has any country in the world actually deliberately REDUCED its integration with other countries, since the war?
No where else in the world has a political integration project like the EU, so the demand / requirement isn't there
So can anyone provide an explanation as to why Brexit means RyanAir are CUTTING prices ?
Reduced demand for a given supply will reduce prices (assuming the costs - such as fuel - are locked in as mentioned above), i.e. you'd expect busy flights to cost more. The article suggests that supply of UK flights will be reduced in the future though, leading to higher prices...
So I don't think you can spin that O'Leary article as a plus point for Brexit...
Rod definitely not trying to spin it, just trying to understand his ploy. You cannot say he isn't shrewd, he has for example bought up most of what was the spare future production of fuel efficient aircraft to stifle competition.
No where else in the world has a political integration project like the EU, so the demand / requirement isn't there
No but there are many trading blocs, agreements and so on.
Just wondering if anyone has reduced their level of integration/co-operation rather than increased.
Both Clinton and Trump have spoken of unwinding large parts of NAFTA. He would do it, I suspect Clinton is just all talk.
Just wondering if anyone has reduced their level of integration/co-operation rather than increased.
best example?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sakoku
Japan shut itself down to the world to prevent christian missionaries from corrupting the country
It allowed the shogun to bring peace and stability and develop what had been a very fractious, warring country, there was limited trade but practically no one could emigrate or immigrate, it did however leave them vulnerable at certain times:
There were 154 famines, in the period, of which 21 were widespread and serious.
It ended when the Americans rolled up and blasted the crap out of them and enforced capitalism with the barrel of a gun
But they managed to avoid the horror of Christianity. Sounds like a win.
and if you want other examples, north korea, cambodia, cuba and most of the warsaw pact to varying extents.
those all turned out well
Both Clinton and Trump have spoken of unwinding large parts of NAFTA. He would do it, I suspect Clinton is just all talk.
Would you see this as a good move?
Another huge success for Enola.
Wot no Empire anymore.
Another huge success for Enola.Wot no Empire anymore.
is this a surprise to anyone?
Germany going to get a few more jobs I see.
https://electrek.co/2016/11/08/tesla-location-gigafactory-2-europe-2017-both-batteries-and-cars/
Have we done this yet. Sign me up.
having this
[img] 
[/img]
i don't need this
but it is a good idea, for those who want to keep their options open and the way the press is, who can blame them!
Well, we just had our first few redundancies this week following the downturn after the vote (and to be honest a month or so before as people put things on hold to wait and see what happened). Pre-construction, so we tend to get hit early by any sort of downturn, but it doesn't exactly bode well.
If we could opt in to the EU as individuals, then we could become economic migrants 🙂
Hindu sacred cows on the High Street of Hartlepool would be quite funny though.
Hindu sacred cows on the High Street of Hartlepool would be quite funny though.
They'd probably hang them as spies.
After what they did to that monkey?
Edit: too slow!
Re: O'Leary.
He's a bit like an ex-boss (Stefano Pessina) of mine, he does stuff for a reason. You might not see why now nor in the future, but that's why he's a CEO of a very successful business, and we're not.
but it is a good idea, for those who want to keep their options open and the way the press is, who can blame them!
Seems fair enough to me.
Got to love the views expressed by Jayne Adye in that article though:
Jayne Adye, director of the Get Britain Out campaign described the proposal as divisive and said it was "totally unacceptable" for British people to retain the advantages of EU membership."This is an outrage. The EU is now attempting to divide the great British public at the exact moment we need unity. 17.4 million people voted to Leave the EU on 23 June and as a result the UK as a whole will get Brexit," she said.
Okay the 17.4 million have spoken, but why deny the 16.1 million the option to keep some [i]personal[/i] EU membership if they want? Obviously the practicalities of that are fairly limited - no one is going to offer a free trade deal on a personal basis - but, as suggested elsewhere on this thread, I wouldn't be averse to paying an EU membership fee to continue with my right to free movement within Europe and some form of representation within the EU.
At least she didn't call anyone traitors I suppose - though I'm sure that wouldn't take long if this actually went ahead.
The response to that is just marvellous isn't it. It's like a child complaining that the other kids aren't playing [i]properly[/i]. We're playing brexit and if you don't play brexit exactly how I want to play brexit it'll all be RUINED.
"It's unfair and discriminatory to offer people I choice I won't take myself! Just like the way that restaurant discriminates against me by offering dishes other than the one thing I like"
Amazing the response of her to the article.
Oh well if i get the chance at having personal membership then brand me a traitor, i know that if job offers come up in Europe with my company then those with free movement will do better
I know I said earlier that entries for **** Of The Year had ended I think we can let Ms Adye in.
Who needs Tesla and India businesses when you have got tea, scones and jam!
The EU is now attempting to divide the great British public
Lolz no, the referendum did that.
It's surely a win/win. Those who want out are out, those who want in can be in. Simple.
This doesn't seem to be before the EU Parliament yet - so can I write to my MEP or not?
[url= http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/the-one-awkward-fact-about-blue-passports-campaigners-have-forgotten_uk_57d93307e4b0a32e2f6d598b ]http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/the-one-awkward-fact-about-blue-passports-campaigners-have-forgotten_uk_57d93307e4b0a32e2f6d598b[/url]
how about that! Brexiters want to be issued with refugee passports....
That associate citizenship idea looks great. I'd apply straight away - as a contractor it'd be a no brainier allowing me to freely work anywhere in the E.U. for anyone. I'd even quite happily pay, you could administer it like the optional church tax in Austria. As it happens I'm safe with Irish citizenship in the pipeline but I'd be minded to apply anyway just to irritate the brexibunch.
Giving people more options is unfair, discriminatory and divisive.
Double yew tee eff.
As regards the idea of selective EU membership… something like that IS required for those already working in EU… interesting idea to extend it further to any UK subject, but unlikely to be passed in that form.
The response from "Get Britain Out" is a great insight into how some people's minds work… desperate to deny people opportunities that they happen to not want themselves. Sums up Leave voters to me. Vindictive.
Of course associate citizenship is a great idea. Ability to work in any EU country and free of charge, no budget contributions etc. Quite literally a free option, you take those all day long. Quite why the EU would agree to such a thing is beyond comprehension.
b r agreed, done for a reason and quite counter intuitive offering lower prices as a result of Brexit. My question was a genuine one as it's a fascinating move.
Of course associate citizenship is a great idea. Ability to work in any EU country and free of charge, no budget contributions etc.
The idea suggested earlier on the thread was that "associate citizens" would pay membership fees, so the EU would still get a budgetary contribution.
I'd like retain my EU citizen rights, but if I have to pay for them, over and above my 10 year EU passport, then it's a commodity, not a right, only available to those who can afford it?
This is the crux of the anti brexit argument, my rights are being taken away by an unelected PM bypassing parliament. That is illegal in UK law.
Where does this paying for EU citizen rights/associate citizenship come from? One of the 26 countries that will decide? I suspect it breaks a few conventions in existing treaties.
unelected PM. That is illegal in UK law.
Facepalm. In this country we elect an MP, the party with the most MPs forms a government and chooses a PM. We do NOT elect a President/PM
And referendums aren't binding, parliament has the final say. 8)
as predicted the BNP & EDL plan to march with [s]Oswald Mosley[/s] Nigel Farage to try and intimidate the judges of the High Court
I suspect it will be home grown, the uk gov will put some charge on upgrading your degraded uk passport to EU status. Current EU passports held by UK citizens will probably be reverted to UK citizen status.
Those that want proper victorian colonial blue passports will probably be charged as well.
Facepalm. In this country we elect an MP, the party with the most MPs forms a government and chooses a PM. We do NOT elect a President/PM
And that's why we have courts and parliament, to prevent a renegade gov/pm from doing something daft. For example a ****less self serving gov that's just going through the motions to save face.
Look, the EU passport thing is a nice gesture, but don't think for a minute that it has any hope of coming to pass. The EU parliament simply doesn't have the power. The only way to retain EU membership is for the UK to remain in the EU...
This been done? EU passports for Brits who want to stay in the EU??
Sign me up, Britains had its day.
[url= http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-citizenship-freedom-of-movement-passport-how-to-keep-parliament-live-move-abroad-a7405196.html ]EU passports for Brits who want to stay in EU[/url]
Err.. Yes.. That is literally what we were talking about in the previous post 😀
I'd sign up (and I suspect my wife would) but more importantly I'd sign my children up to preserve their options for the future.
Cool, wasn't sure because I don't come in this thread very often.
Ability to work in any EU country and [b]free of charge[/b]
Or perhaps, paying taxes and providing skills and labour.
Not everyone sees workers as the enemy because they were born elsewhere.
Genius idea - I doubt the MEP who proposed it is operating on his own... nicely undermines the Brexit stance - which is why Jayne whatserface is so angry - same as Farage threatening violence - they're being well out-manoeuvred and they know it.
Interesting that Scottish and Welsh governments now making their voices heard.
On the two sides of the debate we now have:
1. A minority of Tory MPs
2. Possibly the PM (although possibly she's a shill... time will tell)
3. A minority of the electorate
4. Nigel Farage and a few colleagues who have no higher power than members of Councils (+ the ex-Tory MP)
5. A few of the UK papers
On the other side we have:
1. Most MPs
2 House of Lords
3. Welsh and Scottish governments
4. Most of the electorate
5. Financial sector (have a LOT of soft power)
6. Big business - a lot of soft power
7. Big chunk of the media incl national broadcaster BBC - more soft power
8. USA - for now the most powerful country in the world and our ally
9. Most European Heads of State
10. The EU bureaucracy
11. Bank of England
In terms of power, resources, ability to influence it's not really a fair contest. I suspect behind the scenes there's a solid plan to undermine the entire Brexit campaign... there's more than a few different strands which seem to be coming into play at the moment...
The only way to retain EU membership is for the UK to remain in the EU...
Or for an EU country to offer dual citizenship. Hence the rush for Irish and German passports for those eligible. No reason the EU couldn't allow member states to widen criteria for citizenship to "people from countries that have left the EU", either selectively for key workers, or people already working or having worked previously in the country, or even to anyone applying (agree this is unlikely). The UK government could stop something like this, but why would they, other than to please the vindictive anti EU people who'd be against something like this.
igm - Member
I'd sign up (and I suspect my wife would) [b]but more importantly I'd sign my children up to preserve their options for the future.[/b]
that for me would be the important thing
3. A minority of the electorate
?
The UK government could stop something like this
Depends what it involves.
If the EU decided that UK citizens could pay a membership fee to get some benefits of "the club" then how could the UK stop them? Obviously those benefits wouldn't/couldn't interfere with any UK law.
e.g. I don't think the UK could force me to need a French Visa if the French said I didn't need one.
brooess, I don't see there's any grand conspiracy, there certainly isn't the need for one. It just requires the penny to drop with enough people...there simply isn't a reasonable brexit solution, no approach to leaving the EU will satisfy more than a small minority and all alternatives to the status quo are markedly worse than what we already have.
Honestly, if there was a sensible plan for brexit (ie, if such a thing was possible), don't you think someone would have worked it out by now? Getting on for 5 months later and we haven't got past the vacuous slogan "brexit means brexit".
Honestly, if there was a sensible plan for brexit (ie, if such a thing was possible), don't you think someone would have worked it out by now? Getting on for 5 months later and we haven't got past the vacuous slogan "brexit means brexit".
I 100% agree sadly I think the momentum for brexit has almost reached no going back stage no matter how (hard) dissatrous it is shaping up to be
it doesnt help that the 3 clowns are incapable of delivering....
how could the UK stop them?
Well, they could change the law so that you rescind your UK subject status if claiming dual citizenship with an EU country. Lots of countries have similar limitations as regards dual citizenship with certain countries. It would be petty though.
Would the dual nationality restriction apply to Russian/ Indian billionaires or just us enemies of the state?
Of course the answer is that we have to apply for exit visas.
Well at least now voting for Brexit is only the second most stupid thing of 2016.........
So what happens next, the people who have been shafted, and voted for this are still going to get shafted?
The Dutch don't allow you to hold a second EU (European?) passport. I doubt the UK would rescind allowing multiple EU passports as it costs us nothing to allow a Brit to hold another EU passport, the costs are all on the EU. The UK is one of the most flexible in terms of granting citizenship and allowing multiple passports.
This amused the hell out of me. Apparantly Farage and Aaron Banks are on the way to NY, Nige is lobbying for a role representing the US in Brussels 🙂 As many have said the EU detests the US, there is open hostility in Brussels. Give them their own medicine back in spades. Quotes from SKY
Mr Farage has said that he would consider a role in Donald Trump's administration."He will be in need of a proper Eurosceptic ambassador in Brussels for the European Union,' he told LBC radio.
Mr Farage has said that he would consider a role in Donald Trump's administration.
I though head brown noser had been applied for by a couple in here?
He probably just wants the uniform to go chasing immigrants
My French passport is cheaper than the UK one so the UK is losing whatever profit it makes on a passport every ten years, Jamba (an insignificant sum I know). As you point out some other EU countries are not as flexible on dual nationality as the UK and France so people might have to make a choice if they wish to stay in Europe after Brexit.
The Dutch don't allow you to hold a second EU (European?) passport. I doubt the UK would rescind allowing multiple EU passports as it costs us nothing to allow a Brit to hold another EU passport, the costs are all on the EU. The UK is one of the most flexible in terms of granting citizenship and allowing multiple passports.
How would the good friday agreement hold up if the UK government declares that all in NI have to pick a British passport? OR?????
I doubt the UK would rescind allowing multiple EU passports as it costs us nothing to allow a Brit to hold another EU passport,
just a moment????
Most Brits won't be holding ANY EU passports let alone multiple. Brexit means Brexit
Weren't exports supposed to go up when the £ fell?
Wrong time of year for Jam and Scone exports isn't it?
kimbers - Member
"Our battery continued firing at targets chosen by our O.P. The ammunition expenditure was enormous. “This is costing us a fortune.” said Lt Mostyn, “Honestly, in the last three hours we’ve spent enough to have opened two hat shops in White-chapel, with a hundred pound float in the till.” I calmed him, “Would it help if we fired slower, sir?” He shook his head, “Its too late now, if I had been running this war I could have done it at half the price, I mean what’s Churchill know about business? Nothing! Give him a dress shop and in two weeks he’d be skint!”
A gown shop in Whitechapel:
CHURCHILL:
Good morning madame.
SHOPPER:
I’d like to see a black velvet evening gown with a plunging back.
CHURCHILL:
Is that a dress?
SHOPPER:
Yes.
CHURCHILL:
In two weeks I’ll be skint.