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Morning news conferences at the BBC they look at the mail. telegraph and express to decide what is news that day
Of course, you have proof of this.
[quote=Neb ]Next question - will a soft brexit placate the knob heads that want to "make Britain great again" and are so keen to "take back control"?
Of course not. But then they're knob heads, and I'd hate to think that our country (yes, our country) could be held to ransom by the threat of them creating trouble because mummy didn't let them have their own way.
Norway option is far worse. Remember how it came about, the people voted NOT to join and the government didn't like it so they signed up for pretty much everything anyway inc budget contribution
The short sharp shock of Hard Brexit is best imho. As I have said many times the EU we will be negotiating with come Nov 2017 will look very different than the one we see today. Somehow I doubt politicans have the necessary courage so we'll get some sort of fudge or interim / tapered exit agreement.
BBC News: I have an old (now distant) friend who is a newsreader, they most certainly do not take a lead from the printed press (never did and can't see them doing it now that papers are even less relevant).
TJ the BBC is comfortably left of centre. The left don't like to admit that as it means they can't "blame the media" for their troubles
Edit
Or do you 5th?
😆 I think the last paper I bought was the Beano. Come on, why would anyone buy a paper? Or a magazine, or a book. You'll be telling me people go to actual shops to go shopping next.
Of course, you have proof of this.
Ah but he didn't say they looked at only those papers!
[quote=jambalaya ]Norway option is far worse.
Yay - following normal policy on this thread, it's now clear to me that we'll be fine with the Norway option.
Morning news conferences at the BBC they look at the mail. telegraph and express to decide what is news that day
I'm friends with a current BBC journo (in fact I was best man at her wedding), is it worth me fact checking this or can we write it off as hyperbole?
Anyone else get the feeling that Brexit is going to become the new normal.
In 10 years time or so we'll still be in the EU but the 4th or 5th item on the news will be about the latest vote in parliament about a particular part of the process towards triggering Article 50.
At every election Labour and the Tories will try to outdo each other on how fantastic a deal they're going to get as soon as they trigger article 50. The Lib-Dems will be promising to abandon Article 50 if they get in power (and then not abandon it if they do get in power) and the SNP will be poised to call a referendum the minute that Article 50 is triggered.
The UK will have evolved from that annoying country that wants special treatment all the time to that annoying country that says it's leaving but never does.
[quote=BruceWee ]The UK will have evolved from that annoying country that wants special treatment all the time to that annoying country that says it's leaving but never does.
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FWIW critism of judges for interpreting the law is ridiculous.
Its not just criticism
the Judges have been declared [b]Enemies of the People[/b] by the most poplar 'news' website in the country
with some extra homphobia thrown in
there are 1000s of comments on social media the echo these sentiments and some incredibly brazen threats of violence against Gina Miller in particular, all re-enforced by the political bottomfeeders tweeting above (go and look on facebook, people arent hiding their threats)
I got a lovely threat (with casual homophobia thrownin) via facebook from an EDL member for commenting on the advisory nature of the referendum.
Politicians, media and the public attacking the judiciary for simply explaining the law is a sign of a very sick political climate and May and Truss failing to condem this because they want an easy ride through parliament is shameful.
hardly anyone pays attention to the newspapers, y
The DM (and the sun) is still incredibly influential, it has a history of supporting the Nazis and fascists it cant put behind it and just as it was with scapegoating the jews, post truth politics is now trying to scapegoat the EU, immigrants or anyone who it disagrees with.
they wrote about jews exactly as they write about immigrants now...
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[/img]they supported these douchebags
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with this
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and now the gay pro european judges are [b]Enemies of the People[/b]
well [b]Feind Unseres Folkes[/b] is exactly what the Nazis called the jews
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Brexit and its major proponents are poisoning this country
The short sharp shock of Hard Brexit is best imho
best for who - not best for those who loose their livelihoods, homes etc. Only best for you possibly.
Can we just put a hold on this until I find the barsteward who scratched my car?
It will have been an immigrant, captain. Bound to be - it's all their fault.
A Tory MP has compared the DM article to a nazi paper . Says it all really .
Neb - Member
What exactly is the benefit of a Norway type relationship compared to our current position?
It's Brexit without Brexit.
We keep free market and keep free movement which keeps Remainers happy so it's a reluctant win.
But it's a form of Brexit so it complies with the referendum so for the Brexiters its a reluctant win.
That's the goal for the Tories and Labour. Brexit doesn't follow normal party lines - both camps both have members as staunch voters and yeah Brexit won the vote but it was famously close.
The fact it's a shit solution doesn't come into it.
Hell, what's the downside? No voice in Europe? FFS most of us can't be arsed to vote in the Euro elections and we put up with UKIP running the show for years, what's the deference?
And the government of the day can spend the next couple of decades blaming the EU for bad news, even more so because we're powerless to do anything about it and whose fault is that? The electorate.
JC has fired the first shot, access to free market or labour will vote against (not that I think his position is strong enough to follow that up) between that, 2 Tory resignations, an SNP that will never vote for A50, nah unless The Supreme Court over-turn the high court it's all over for 'Hard Brexit' - not that even May would push that suicide mission through.
**** it, give the leavers some spitfires and blue passports and they'll crawl back under their rock - 10 years and 50% are dead or too old and mental to vote and we can put this shit to bed.
Can we just put a hold on this until I find the barsteward who scratched my car?
He's probably pissed off back to Romania clinging to the underside of a lorry. Well I imagine that's what the DM story would have us believe.
oh look the kippers arent scared of revealing their antisemitism now either
https://antisemitism.uk/ukip-facebook-group-posts-claim-that-jews-are-conspiring-against-brexit/
best for who - not best for those who loose their livelihoods, homes etc. Only best for you possibly.
How many times do I have to say it, no personal gain from Brexit. I'm too old to see the real benefits which will flow to my kids as the UK avoids EU driven stagnation and looks outwards to the world.
On the press thing - its common knowledge and confirmed to me by a bbc journalist - yes they look at other papers as well but if the mail, express and telegraph all lead with the same story then the BBC will as well.
Your kids voted remain Jambalaya.
BruceWee - I very much doubt it will last that long. it will be two years andif no deal is reached we will be out on our ear. and IMO no deal is possible. The EU will not compromise on movement of people to any significant extent and that is a red line for the outies. Nor is an EEA deal possible - the other EEA countries don't want the UK in it mucking things up for them and that would not satisfy the outies anyway.
So no deal. Its either out on our ear with nothing or reverse the decision to leave.
oh look the kippers arent scared of revealing their antisemitism now either
If UKIP implodes they'll feel at home in Labour 😀
If UKIP implodes they'll feel at home in Labour 😀
yup coz antisemitism is hilarious 🙄
[quote=tjagain ]The EU will not compromise on movement of people to any significant extent and that is a red line for the outies.
All of them? I can't find it now, but somebody mentioned earlier a prominent leave campaigner who was in favour of free movement of people. It would only take 4% of those who voted Leave to agree with that for there to be a majority [b]of those who voted[/b] in favour of retaining free movement, and I'd be surprised if it was anywhere near that low.
Nor is an EEA deal possible - the other EEA countries don't want the UK in it
Are you ignoring my earlier point that there is no requirement at all for us to join the EEA in order to get a similar deal?
No requirement no - but I can't see it happening. Would the EU really create a whole new category just for us? I very much doubt it. I think we will either be given a take it or leave it option or nothing at all. I don't see the EU being at all inclined to do the uk any favours at all. Remeber one of the EUs aims in any negotiations will be to stop any incentive for anyone else to follow so they will not be likely to offer anything advantageous. the EU hold al lthe cards here
Well they already have a unique category for Switzerland - strangely enough one which is very similar to that enjoyed by EEA members - so I can't see any logical reason why they couldn't have one for us. Doing so doesn't appear to break any of their rules. It's not about doing us favours, it's about what's best for the EU and I don't think it would be at all difficult to sell this in that way. Realpolitik.
Whats best for the EU is to play hardball - if the UK get a good deal then others will want the same deal. Thats a huge driving force for them.
How many times do I have to say it, no personal gain from Brexit. I'm too old to see the real benefits which will flow to my kids as the UK avoids EU driven stagnation and looks outwards to the world.
Your kids with the right to claim French citizenship as do you if it all goes wrong?
And how many times do you have to be asked - how many jobs and lives is your 'project' worth wrecking - as you've never answered.
[quote=tjagain ]Whats best for the EU is to play hardball - if the UK get a good deal then others will want the same deal. Thats a huge driving force for them.
Of course. But I don't see why it's not possible to package this in a way which isn't seen as a sufficiently good reason for other countries to leave the EU in order to get it. After all we are talking about something which will be worse than what we currently have, just not catastrophically worse.
How exactly are leave movements in other countries going to sell the idea of being like the UK to the bulk of their supporters who want to get rid of the stuff we'd be keeping under such an arrangement? If anything giving us such a deal might even quell some of those feelings.
kimbers - Memberoh look the kippers arent scared of revealing their antisemitism now either
Absolutely inevitable tbh- recent experience with chav-baiting, fat-shaming, and muslim-bashing and any number of others has told people it's OK to hate difference again. It's all the same shit, literally the exact same- fear and ignorance, ignorance and fear, hate of the Other and the desire to feel better than others without making any effort to actually deserve it, and to find someone to blame, anyone- but let's be honest, a lot of people really didn't care when it was just people they don't like that were getting shat on. Stupid leftards, with their political correctness, defending these workshy scroungers, and dirty eastern europeans who take our jobs, and pikey trash... Bleeding heart do-gooders the lot of em. It's fine to hate as long as you're hating the people I hate! Just don't cross that line, that ism is fine but not this other, nearly identical ism, for some reason.
and it's happened, that Mash article read as if they gave up half way through and went you know what? There is not point to satire lets all just go to the pub.
and if everyone is sitting down...
Jezza has a position
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-labour-block-article-50-theresa-may-cannot-guarantee-single-market-access-brexit-a7400266.html
Enola herself said people didn't vote to become poorer. If she can't deliver on something where that's not going to happen .......
[quote=mikewsmith ]and if everyone is sitting down...
Jezza has a position
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-labour-block-article-50-theresa-may-cannot-guarantee-single-market-access-brexit-a7400266.html
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Wow, not only a position, but a pretty bold one, which would prevent May doing what she claims she wants to do (I'm assuming there are sufficient Tory MPs who would also vote that way). Very interesting times.
Trouble Aracer - a deal like you hint at would not satisfy the leavers and the eurosceptic press.
Trouble is I don't think there is a deal that would satisfy all the leavers and skeptic press. From the racists to the make Britain great lot and those that just want to watch it all burn.
[quote=tjagain ]Trouble Aracer - a deal like you hint at would not satisfy the leavers and the eurosceptic press.
Hard Brexit would satisfy less. I'm not quite sure why we have to pander to a minority of those who voted in the referendum just because they think they won?
That's sensational, and brave, from Corbyn.
Tj I think there is a lot of posturing, but no bite.
Has anyone actually seen any militant brexit people? I've read a lot, but I haven't seen one. I really, really hope the gutter press' bluff is being called don this one.
So May won't accept complete free movement of people, the EU says access to single market = freedom of movement and Corbin won't allow A50 unless access to the single market is retained.
This actually just got interesting, rather than solely depressing.
Jezza has grown a set? Line in the sand no woolly bollocks- It's all too seismic, Trump is going to win...
[quote=Neb ]This actually just got interesting, rather than solely depressing.
It would be quite funny if I didn't live here.
I'm actually starting to wonder if they're all on the Daily Mash payroll.
My opinion of Jeremy Corbyn has just improved massively. Finally, the Opposition growing a set and putting some pressure on the government. Hopefully he can get his party to go along with it. Great to see after all the infighting and navel gazing.
Maybe I missed it, but I don't see Corbyn guaranteeing to vote against unless we remain in the EAA.
It would be interesting to see how people would vote in an election if it came down to it. There is clearly a sizeable minority of labour voters willing to vote for brexit, they have voted for ukip (in more numbers in non general elections) would they be willing to vote tory to force it through. And there a clearly a lot of tory voters who want to remain, voting lib dem might see an easy alternative, but could be ineffective, would they vote labour to hopefully see brexit pushed into the political background.
Another election would see a lot people voting for against their normal choice just over this single issue. Once whatever happens with brexit happens we'd be left with a government that doesn't really have a proper mandate. We'd need yet another general election 8)
Quite interesting that when I asked yesterday where everyone saw ourselves in 2019 after we'd exited, none of the Leavers on here had anything positive to add to my initial thoughts.
Is that because there aren't any?
Would people vote solely on Brexit lines?
I'm not so sure, I suspect May and pollsters aren't so sure either, which is why she wants to avoid a GE and push on with brexishambles. That her and Truss still haven't condemed the abuse and attacks on the judiciary by the Daily Heil and the public, speaks volumes about her character.
It's also going to add to her woes, while the Tory press are ****ing themselves off with the Thatcher comparisons this morning, just as she did with the police when home sec, she's now alienated the judiciary & legal community- people she is going to rely on heavily to secure her brexishambles.
i wonder how Ed would vote ?
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Can someone point me the exact words JC used to commit to voting against Brexit over the issue of tarrifs?
outofbreath
From the grauniad
The opposition will join forces with Conservative remain supporters and other parties to block article 50 if the prime minister does not guarantee access to the single market, the Labour leader told the Sunday Mirror.
The paper said that Corbyn’s four bottom lines were:
UK access to 500 million customers in Europe’s single market.
No watering down of EU workplace rights.
Guarantees on safeguarding consumers and the environment.
A promise that Britain will pick up the tab for any EU capital investment lost as a result of Brexit.
Kimbers May doesn't need to hold a GE, even with polls showing a massive Tory lead why take a risk ? She has at least two more cards to play, court appeal and a commons vote
It is either brave or stupid by Corbyn to ask for access to single market as he knows May can not guaranteed it.
A special deal is possible with the EU, it is on both sides intetest to keep good trading relations.
Not a word from May to defend the judges.
Corbin won't allow A50
how is he going to do that then - whip his party - what if they vote against his whip anyway, which is surley acceptable to him as he has voted against the whip so many times?
If that's a true reflection of what he said I don't see why he'd need to vote against. I'd like to see the actual words he used.
We will still have access even if a hard breexit - there will just be tarriffs, and the size of those tarriffs needs to be determined.
And as the tarriff income with be more than the cost it is in the interests of the companies in the EU that a better deal than WTO rules is reached.
"It is either brave or stupid by Corbyn to ask for access to single market as he knows May can not guaranteed it."
The WTO can though.
We" will still have access even if a hard breexit - there will just be tarriffs, and the size of those tarriffs needs to be determined."
Nope, they're already known. Average of 2.5 PC. Wine is one of the highest tarrifs and the majority of red wine in my local Tesco is from outside the EAA.
Corbyn knows no one can guaranty access to the single market, its a political manouver. It also conradicta everything he has said up till now including that we should have triggered A50 immediately.
jambalaya - Member
i wonder how Ed would vote
Jambafact #1728
Turnout was 70% in Doncaster, so that should say
[b]'Ed Milliband , 50% of your constituents voted to leave '[/b] 😆
Even your cut n paste vote leave propaganda is devoid of truth,
Quick get it written on a bus!!
Maybe the PM is worried about an mp debate as the Leave arguments would not stand up very well with facts ?
Corbyn knows no one can guaranty access to the single market, its a political manouver.
This is the sort of thing people have been waiting for him to actually work out. It's politics, it's a game to an extent and it's big risk/reward.
Nope, they're already known. Average of 2.5 PC.
Average of all, average the UK's imports, average of the UK's exports, average of the UK's imports and exports or just an average figure.
Average is the most useless expressions of numbers available
the equation for Enola is how many tory mps would vote down hard brexit, are there 10 or more Ken Clarkes ? Or whether she is prepared to side with labour, against the eurosceptic wing of her on party (and the fascist press) to push through the [s]Norway[/s] [s]pointless[/s] farage loses his seat option.
Would people vote solely on Brexit lines?
I think it is a big enough issue, it will drive economic and foreign policy through several election cycles, the reality is that virtually every other policy or path politics in the uk can take is dependant on how brexit turns out.
Jambalaya and his mates have been here before:
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But that 2.5% two tariff is just on goods, the problem is that we don't export many goods, but we export lots of services. Typically through multi national European companies. If we rely on wto rules, then most of those services will move somewhere more favourable and a large slice of our income will just evaporate.
The wto rules also don't just add tariffs, they add barriers to trade compared to what we have now. That will significantly reduce the competitiveness of uk companies. We won't just have to pay 2.5% more, we'll struggle to win business full stop.
Kimbers that's in the assumption that people without voting rights aren't constituents- children for example or EU citizens living in the area. Assume only 50% of people get to vote at any given time any it's...
Around 25% of you constituents (we're not really sure) voted to leave Mr Milliband...
And to answer your question Jamba, how should he vote? With his conscience in the best interests of his constituents. It was a silly question anyway given you knew the answer.
Jamba - can I just check that you are accusing Corbyn, a politician , of a political manoeuvre? It blinking well hope so.
Meanwhile everything Enola has done is so she can blame others later - the Bexmigos, the judges, next MPs. She is looking like a Machiavellian but weak PM.
Brave or stupid by Corbyn to ask for access to single market as he knows May can not guaranteed i
It's bllx. But just driven home from tennis and listening to IDS - one side - and Farron - the other - both talking BS
And we wonder why people protesti against politics.
The debate has turned even more desperate.
Legal tennis partner noted that the final say on this ultimately comes down to the ECJ - the ironies continue.
Nice to see Gina Miller wiping the floor with Farige this morning
Legal tennis partner noted that the final say on this ultimately comes down to the ECJ - the ironies continue.
Yes talked about in the press last week. I think May would hold a vote on A50 before going to the ECJ. It's not ironic at all it's an wxample of how we do not have control of our own law making
I think May would hold a vote on A50 before going to the ECJ. It's not ironic at all it's an wxample of how we do not have control of our own law making
No the UK court made a ruling on UK law, the suggestions are there was nothing up to interpretation kind of the UK law. That UK judges ruled on.
The last court to appeal to would be the ECJ but if the UK Judges are right then they are right and the judgement would stand.
It's not ironic at all it's an wxample of how [s]we do not have control of our own law making[/s] May is desperately trying to ignore UK law
which is a sad indictment of brexishambles and the hypocrasy of brexiters
Thank you Mike. Jambas that (Mikes) is the correct interpretation
IGM wasn't Corbyn supposed to represent a new kind of politics, not the cynical type we are all used to ? He campaigned for decades against the EU and his half hearted speeches and 7/10 score for fhe EU helped Leave win. As for Milliband et all MPs rarely vote with their conscience. It would be pretty pompous of him to decide what's "best for his constituents" when they voted so clearly for Leave.
Law is subject to interpretation that's why we have courts and an appeal process.
Nice to see Gina Miller wiping the floor with Farige this morning
just seen it . hilarious .
Law is subject to interpretation that's why we have courts and an appeal process.
From what I have read on the judgement this one might be hard to interpret differently. Although lawyers do seem to specialise in the grey this one was black and white. Same as most of the judgements against the UK in the EU courts turns out they were right in cases of law.